Drivers Blinded by “Too-Bright” LED Headlights on New Cars, Warns RAC

Tsumi said:
I have 220 watts in the form of 2 55 watt HIDs and 2 65 watt HIRs for my high beams that I use on obnoxious people. My low beams are 55 watt HIDs in FX-R 3.0s in a C5 Corvette, the super sharp cutoff isn't going to blind anyone.
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Oh no? You must live in Nebraska where it's perfectly flat. Let me tell you how blinded I get by Corvettes coming over a hill when their perfectly cut off hid lights blind the fuck out of me.
 
Tsumi said:
Let's put it this way. If you stand in front of my car, you will get more glare from the switchbacks I have installed than my headlights. My marker lights are brighter than my headlights above the headlights' cutoff line. And yes, my headlights are properly aimed, and they're in a car that is as low as it gets, a C5 Corvette.
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Did you install new housings for your headlights or still the OEM pop up headlights?
 
Mine actively dim for traffic, basically they create a dimmer spot where cars are coming in the opposite direction.

Manufacturer reckons that means I don't need to turn off high beam on the correct roads, but I don't trust that. They are crazy f'ing bright on full beam. The whole fact the beam moves (way more than Xenon's) still unnerves me too. There's definite advantages over the headlights on my old car so I can appreciate the progression (perhaps not as much as an oncoming driver) but let's be real, the coolest thing is how they light up in the car park and that's why most people get them. In Australia, for the car I've got, you don't get a choice they're standard.

Can we all agree on the extending motion' led turning lights though. Everytime I see them I just think "for fucks sake"
 
kilroy67 said:
Anyone notice police lights these days, a bright vivid blue that blinds you when going by.
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Like a mobile rave party, everytime one goes by I always wonder how they don't induce epilepsy in other drivers.
 
I find that factory systems, both LED and HID/Xenon are fine on regular passenger cars.

Here's the problem though.

Modding aftermarket systems are always bad. People ought to be fucking arrested for this. It's goddamned dangerous.

Also, even factory systems are blinding installer vehicles. They should be banned in all SUV's and Trucks.
 
Revenge would be nice. My last car had adjustable, from inside, mirrors. I miss being able to adjust them to return the favor a bit. But rednecks around these here parts are a bit trigger-happy, so revenge on my part might end up getting me into more trouble than it's worth. These people wear camouflage every day.
 
Riccochet said:
Oh no? You must live in Nebraska where it's perfectly flat. Let me tell you how blinded I get by Corvettes coming over a hill when their perfectly cut off hid lights blind the fuck out of me.
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Can't really do anything about hills, but in California, the urban highways have a middle barrier that is tall enough to block most oncoming traffic light except for the lifted trucks. As for rural hills... can't avoid the physics of that, HID or halogen. The only benefit of halogen is that the lower color temperature appears less blinding. My lights are at 4500k temperature, lower than most people who like to run 5500-6500k, and somewhat whiter than halogen's 3300k. Also, most OEM HIDs systems use 35 watt HIDs in the 4300k range.

FlawleZ said:
Did you install new housings for your headlights or still the OEM pop up headlights?
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New housings in the pop ups. They are ACA replicas that I modded to mount FX-R 3.0s.
 
Tsumi said:
Usually it's people putting HIDs and LEDs into halogen reflectors. Halogen reflectors can only properly focus halogen bulbs, anything else will cause scatter and glare. Projectors are a little more forgiving in that the shield reduces glare, but light dispersion will still be abysmal in halogen projectors. And then there are the dumbasses that simply drive around with their high beams on. Factory HID and LED systems are required to have auto-leveling, at least in Europe, so that wouldn't be the cause on European cars.
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That's a way bigger problem than factory LED headlights in my opinion.

Here in Germany you never see them really as they're illegal without projector lenses, self-levelling AND washers... :)

I find it amazing that so many idiots in the USA (and the UK I have noticed) are installing these in standard halogen housings and without projector lenses/levellers...
 
As others said, I think it's the directional nature of LEDs. Older halogen lights have a diffuse / fade to them so they're bright, but not obnoxious. Newer LEDs are like full sun and then nothing, there's a cutoff. It's usually not too bad (depending the car you drive) until they hit a speed bump or dip in the road, and then your mirrors fall into the stripe of sunlight that is being projected across your back. A couple bumps and it's like you're getting hit with a strobe light.
 
I loathed driving my father's 2006 BMW X5 for the reason that the normal xenon lights were so bright (and pointed up) that I'd blind myself from the reflection of the rear view mirror of the car in front of me.
 
I hate the new type of lights on cars, they really do dazzle the shit out of you, They are too bright imho.
 
thesmokingman said:
The LED tail lights are obnoxious too.
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Only when they use the ebay specials, which I use on my reverse lights as I want no mistake this fucker is backing up, no damn excuses. They light the street up at night. :D They benefit the rear camera in the dark too.

I have the proper led globe replacements on my rear/brake/fog lights, the Philips ones. They're not cheap, about $50/ pair and I have two pairs of them. They have the advantage of led which is instant on, yet maintain the same brightness and throw as the stock globes. You'd never pick they were led unless paying attention to their activation timing.



As for the original story, no shit. I hate these new car led lights too. DRL are obnoxious too.
 
true, true, true ... retina burn came to mind. It's like a camera flash, you know, the temp blindness and all that. I think I saw this on a Caddy; seems to be on just the high end autos.

Another lighting problem with autos (at least here in New Mexico) happens when a driver replaces a headlight. Seems 1 out of 100 know to aim the new light.
 
focbde said:
That's a way bigger problem than factory LED headlights in my opinion.

Here in Germany you never see them really as they're illegal without projector lenses, self-levelling AND washers... :)

I find it amazing that so many idiots in the USA (and the UK I have noticed) are installing these in standard halogen housings and without projector lenses/levellers...
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Yeah absolutely. Here in the UK it's also illegal to have HIDs etc without projector lenses, self-levelling and washers but it doesn't seem to stop idiots from fitting them. Luckily, at some point this year our MOT test (for those who don't know, a yearly test for cars 3 years and over to say it's roadworthy at the time) will incorporate changes to check for this. Hopefully that means within the next year or so there should be a lot less of those around.
 
The problem I have is with idiots who do not realise they are blinding people and, at night, they get very close to your tail, which distracts the shit out of me since I'm more worried about the fucking lights blinding me than I am watching the road. Since it also affects your light-balance it affects your ability to see and discern objects (whilst you are being blinded).

At least they could test their lamps so that they are aiming at the ground. Fucking idiots.
 
The city police, where I live, must have upgraded their entire fleet (not to the super bright opening the ark of the covenant kind, but still brighter). Unintended consequence ... it makes them real easy to spot from a distance.
 


This Geman doctor explains how LED lights destroy the inside o the eye. I think people who use LED monitors are not really affected because the white leds are not that bad minus the blue light but it's filtered though colors on the screen. Some monitors have blue light reduction as well. Personally can't stand Windows 10 Night Light setting and Flux burns my skin allergic reaction.
 
I just get annoyed being flashed at quite often from drivers thinking I have my high beams on.
 
What the article is about: New cars with LED headlights

What is being discussed in the thread:
Aftermarket LED headlights
LED light bars
LED tail lights
LED Halos
HIDs
LEDs on police light bars
LEDs in general (comixbooks, worth mentioning)

What isn't being discussed in the thread: New cars with LED headlights
 
i see this issue from day to day , the thing is some cars i seen have some amazing dipped lights on them (wide beam but not shining into traffic even when parked up on the wrong side of the road) but majority of cars that have this LED lights don't seem to control the beam correctly
 
it's not how bright the LED bulbs are, it's the spectrum their peak output is in. The eye is very sensitive to blue light. The older Halogen and incandescent bulbs emitted light in a "warmer" part of the spectrum that doesn't cause this glare effect.

Also. if you mount an aftermarket LED bar on the grill of your truck, you need your ass kicked. those things need to be illegal.
 
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motomonkey said:
it's not how bright the LED bulbs are, it's the spectrum their peak output is in. The eye is very sensitive to blue light. The older Halogen and incandescent bulbs emitted light in a "warmer" part of the spectrum that doesn't cause this glare effect.

Also. if you mount an aftermarket LED bar on the grill of your truck, you need your ass kicked. those things need to be illegal.
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I have LED off road lights on my jeep. They basically make the road ahead look sunlit.

key words, off road lights. Would never use them as a substitute for on road low beams, and would definitely never use them with any traffic around.
 
motomonkey said:
it's not how bright the LED bulbs are, it's the spectrum their peak output is in. The eye is very sensitive to blue light. The older Halogen and incandescent bulbs emitted light in a "warmer" part of the spectrum that doesn't cause this glare effect.

Also. if you mount an aftermarket LED bar on the grill of your truck, you need your ass kicked. those things need to be illegal.
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There's nothing wrong with aftermarket lights, when used properly. Same thing as the aftermarket offroad lights plenty of people were mounting to trucks in the 80s. People wonder why some areas require covers over them when on the street, it's to make sure you can't use them on the street without taking the covers off first.

As far as the new cars with LED headlights, most factory options aren't the obnoxious crap that people encounter on a daily basis. I drive an SUV, I don't have aftermarket lights, and even with auto dimming mirrors I STILL get idiots behind me with lights aimed all over the place into my my mirrors. It's honestly kind of comical following some idiot down the road and glancing up to see their headlights dumping more light into the tree tops overhead just 20' in front of the car, than the light they're supposed to be putting onto the road surface to actually see at night as if they're trying to keep an eye out for power lines or something.
 
Actually they make glasses that block out blue light I think you can get a Gunners prescription if you look around.
I'm in love with my Edison bulbs though these things are sweet except for displaying the right color.
 
tesfaye said:
Glad I'm not the only one to notice. It's out of control where I'm at. LED light bars on vehicles, improperly installed after market lights (doesn't matter if LED or not). It's the worst on trucks -- the lights are too high up if you're in a sedan/coupe.
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LED light bars are illegal to use in PA. In fact, they aren't even supposed to be exposed, they are required to be covered like all "off-road lighting."
 
THIS. I've been getting this all the time. This new LED cars are insane. Slightly tolerable to pass trough in a straight line, but if they hit a rock, all hell passes trough my retina.
Yes i'm talking about stock cars.

The biggest problem is the concentration of light a led provides. Too much light on a tight spot makes it blindy if it hits our eyes.

Solution: Go back to the refraction glass headlamps. Not as beautiful as clean glass, but it would fix the problem.
 
I'm blinded all the time at night, by mostly incorrect headlight levels, and way too bright lights.

I was hoping by now we'd all have Infra-red HUD displays on most cars.
IR isn't going to blind you, and you'll see much better in Fog too.

Where are the aftermarket IR HUD's ?
 
kirbyrj said:
LED light bars are illegal to use in PA. In fact, they aren't even supposed to be exposed, they are required to be covered like all "off-road lighting."
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I believe the law in most states refers to off road lights typically as being above the standard headlights, and therefore bumper mounted LED lights fall into 'driving lights' despite being 10000x brighter than headlights. This basically has no resolution unless people either fail safety inspections or get ticketed for non-DOT led lights, which, considering most are chinese off road lights, wouldn't be hard. However, I am not at all suggesting we need more regulation.
 
mnewxcv said:
I believe the law in most states refers to off road lights typically as being above the standard headlights, and therefore bumper mounted LED lights fall into 'driving lights' despite being 10000x brighter than headlights. This basically has no resolution unless people either fail safety inspections or get ticketed for non-DOT led lights, which, considering most are chinese off road lights, wouldn't be hard. However, I am not at all suggesting we need more regulation.
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Pretty much any aftermarket light is illegal in PA. Even fog lamps have a certain list of requirements, specifically the location and the fact that they turn off when high beams turn on.

Whether or not judges are going to let people who get cited off because "They didn't know it was a law" is another thing though.
 
kirbyrj said:
Pretty much any aftermarket light is illegal in PA. Even fog lamps have a certain list of requirements, specifically the location and the fact that they turn off when high beams turn on.

Whether or not judges are going to let people who get cited off because "They didn't know it was a law" is another thing though.
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before it gets to a judge though, there has to be a citation. Not sure how many cops are pulling people over for suspected aftermarket fog lights. And I never really understood why fogs are required to turn off when high beams are switched on, and the 4 forward facing bulbs on at one time max rule.
 
Absofuckinglutely! Shit is getting out of hand.

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focbde said:
That's a way bigger problem than factory LED headlights in my opinion.

Here in Germany you never see them really as they're illegal without projector lenses, self-levelling AND washers... :)

I find it amazing that so many idiots in the USA (and the UK I have noticed) are installing these in standard halogen housings and without projector lenses/levellers...
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It's illegal here in the U.S. as well, but it is almost never enforced.

In some states you may not pass a safety inspection with them in, but the kids know this and remove them before the inspection and reinstall them after.

While I have heard of some people being given citations for such violations as too dark tint or blinding aftermarket HID's it is exceedingly rare, and usually as an add-on charge if you were already doing something stupid and got pulled over.

As an example I've heard of kids doing drag racing in industrial areas after dark, and when the city started cracking down on it, if they didn't actually catch anyone in the act of racing, they would just go around and ticket everyone for their illegal light modifications.
 
My truck has stock LED headlights, people flash their lights at me all the time because they think I am driving with the high beams on. My truck is 100% stock, so no lift kit or anything like that. Usually if I'm in a drive thru and a sedan or such is in front of me, I will turn my headlights off cause I see how it blasts them in the face.
 
Spidey329 said:
As others said, I think it's the directional nature of LEDs. Older halogen lights have a diffuse / fade to them so they're bright, but not obnoxious. Newer LEDs are like full sun and then nothing, there's a cutoff. It's usually not too bad (depending the car you drive) until they hit a speed bump or dip in the road, and then your mirrors fall into the stripe of sunlight that is being projected across your back. A couple bumps and it's like you're getting hit with a strobe light.
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satanicoo said:
THIS. I've been getting this all the time. This new LED cars are insane. Slightly tolerable to pass trough in a straight line, but if they hit a rock, all hell passes trough my retina.
Yes i'm talking about stock cars.

The biggest problem is the concentration of light a led provides. Too much light on a tight spot makes it blindy if it hits our eyes.

Solution: Go back to the refraction glass headlamps. Not as beautiful as clean glass, but it would fix the problem.
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Not so much directional as the color temperature. People for whatever reason love 5500-6500k color temperature, and most LED headlight assemblies operate in the 6000k range. That is in the bluish range, and the eye reacts much more strongly to bluish light than it does yellow light. People equate blue headlights to fancy/expensive, which is just dumb. The eye resolves detail better with yellowish light.

Zheez said:
Yeah absolutely. Here in the UK it's also illegal to have HIDs etc without projector lenses, self-levelling and washers but it doesn't seem to stop idiots from fitting them. Luckily, at some point this year our MOT test (for those who don't know, a yearly test for cars 3 years and over to say it's roadworthy at the time) will incorporate changes to check for this. Hopefully that means within the next year or so there should be a lot less of those around.
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It's illegal in the US as well, the cops just don't bother enforcing it. Technically my modifications are illegal as well, but mine are as good as or better than OEM HID setups. It just lacks autoleveling.
 
mnewxcv said:
before it gets to a judge though, there has to be a citation. Not sure how many cops are pulling people over for suspected aftermarket fog lights. And I never really understood why fogs are required to turn off when high beams are switched on, and the 4 forward facing bulbs on at one time max rule.
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High beams in Fog will just reflect back at you and blind you.
That is why they are turned off automatically when you put your high beams on, they become pointless ;)

I have tried a few times, usually when the Fog lights aren't doing much better than the dip beam, but it always reflects back, and i'm left with fog lights and dip again.
 
Side note: I'm very torn on this issue. I don't want to be an aftermarket HID douche blinding everyone, but on the other hand, the light output from my 2000 V70 is wholly inadequate.

I'm considering getting the clear "jewel" headlights from a a 2002-2005 1st gen C70, as they are a direct replacement, and put a mild aftermarket HID kit (maybe 4300K won't provide as much blinding glare as the higher color temps?) and just aim them down a little bit.

Hopefully that won't produce glare for oncoming traffic, but I don't know for sure.

I mean, there WERE early HID cars with reflector-style headlights, and they don't seem to have had the glare issue, so there must be a way to do this right.
 
Evildead666 said:
High beams in Fog will just reflect back at you and blind you.
That is why they are turned off automatically when you put your high beams on, they become pointless ;)

I have tried a few times, usually when the Fog lights aren't doing much better than the dip beam, but it always reflects back, and i'm left with fog lights and dip again.
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That, and the fact that they serve two opposing purposes. High beams are supposed to light up the distance, while fogs are supposed to light up the ground right in front of the car. Lighting up the ground right in front of the car reduces the apparent glare from the low beams in the fog. What people mistake is that it allows them to drive faster in the fog: it doesn't. When you increase foreground light, you compromise long range vision, which is the purpose of high beams.

Zarathustra[H] said:
Side note: I'm very torn on this issue. I don't want to be an aftermarket HID douche blinding everyone, but on the other hand, the light output from my 2000 V70 is wholly inadequate.

I'm considering getting the clear "jewel" headlights from a a 2002-2005 1st gen C70, as they are a direct replacement, and put a mild aftermarket HID kit (maybe 4300K won't provide as much blinding glare as the higher color temps?) and just aim them down a little bit.

Hopefully that won't produce glare for oncoming traffic, but I don't know for sure.

I mean, there WERE early HID cars with reflector-style headlights, and they don't seem to have had the glare issue, so there must be a way to do this right.
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There were early HID cars with reflectors, true. Mercedes E-class W210, S197 Mustangs with Saleen headlights, and surprisingly Jeep Wrangler JK stock housings are the ones I am aware of. These reflectors were designed with HID bulbs in mind, which is why they work, and they wouldn't work well at all with halogen bulbs. I highly doubt you will find any HID-designed reflectors for your car. Your best option is a HID projector retrofit in the clear housings. On a budget, Acme projectors are decent. Apparently the cheaper Amazon Mini H1 projectors are the same thing. The Morimoto Mini H1 7.0s are the latest and greatest in a small package. Several LED projector retrofit options exist as well, but installation is more involved, more expensive than HID projectors, and/or don't provide as much light output.
 
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