First Rule of GPP: Don't Talk About GPP

ComputerBase.de reached out to Gigabyte about why this model was not under the brand for "players," and were told by Gigabyte that the focus of the RX 580 enclosure is not on "players."
Small nitpick with that translation, I would translate "Spieler" to "gamers" rather than "players" in this case.
 
there must be a large amount of money nvidia uses for this partner program to sway people such.
 
The last AMD cards that were the fastest single-GPU cards available were the 290X, 7970 and 5870. As far as highest price/performance ratio however, AMD has been leading almost continuously.
October 24, 2013 since the release of the 290x.

Almost a full 4.5 years ago. Also if I remember right wasn’t there either a problem with the coolers or VRMs getting overheated?

AMD could even get close id consider it.

Also the GTX 780ti was released two weeks later to the day. If my memory serves me right the GTX780ti was actually faster than the OG vanilla Titan and the AMD 290x. Although it appears optimization has actually pushed the 290x ahead of the 780ti. Also that extra VRAM doesn’t hurt on the AMD.
 
Small nitpick with that translation, I would translate "Spieler" to "gamers" rather than "players" in this case.

I would as well, I could however not find one online translation website that would agree with me, and I tried several lol
 
I never understand why people such as yourself are willing to gain short term benefit at the expense of severe long term detriments. It's why we are in the position we are in now. Do you expect some magical fairy to give AMD more money for R&D so they can compete with Nvidia? Does it even matter if someone did? When ATI/AMD had the better products, people still bought Nvidia over them. AMD is in a far worse position than they have ever been. The market wasn't flooded with monitors that are locked to Nvidia graphics cards at the time and Gameworks wasn't an industry standard
Not buying from a company like Intel that utilizes illegal shady monopolistic tactics is not taking pity on their competition. You buy their competition because it's an alternative to buying from a company that is bad for the industry and consumers as a whole. A consumer that is only concerned with short term benefit is a stupid consumer. Consumers as you describe deserve the monopolies and everything bad that comes with them and have no right to whine about such monopolies.
I get your reasoning, but you're basically asking consumers to take responsibility for the actions of companies. As someone else mentioned, the real world doesn't work like that.

In capitalism, the only job of the consumer is to get the product that best suits them. That's it. If a company makes a good product, but does so in an unethical way, they're generally going to prosper, because the only responsibility of the consumer is to buy the product they want. You're trying to assign a greater responsibility to the consumer, which simply isn't there. If a company is behaving terribly but making great products, that's never going to be solved by consumers. It won't even be solved by competition if their products aren't as good. The free market does not solve unethical behavior of companies that make good products. The end. That's typically what the role of government is for, if the behavior of the company is egregious enough.
 
Yet when AMD had the best cards on the market, people still only bought Nvidia. It's why we are in the position we are in now. Nvidia has been leveraging its top position and continues to do so, and getting bolder. But hey, buy that gaming card from that completely unethical corporation for a few higher percentage of frame at the expense of the market. You'll need that higher frame rate when Nvidia fully gains a monopoly and has no need to innovate at all.

When AMD had the best cards they were gaining marketshare. The problem is, that evaporated once they lost that position. Having the best, the fastest, the strongest, card bring a lot of prestige on a company and it trickles on down their entire line. Nvidia has held that crown for nearly half a decade now. AMD has been unable to compete with Nvidia's high-end offerings since 2013. AMD's last performance topping card was over four and a half years ago. That is a very long time to be without a prestige card. In that time they have released exactly two cards that tried for the top end (Fury X and Vega 64) and both of them failed. In the minds of consumers AMD is the cheap, budget, brand. That hole was dug by AMD themselves. Its not consumer's faults, its not Nvidia's fault, it is 100% AMD's fuck up.
 
I would buy an AMD video card tomorrow if they had a good one, beat the 1080ti and didn't make my power wheel spin off its hinges.
They don't so why consider amd, no I will not buy junk to help them.
 
Hell the profit margins are better on crypto mining so maybe they are gearing up for an add campaign in that direction.
Bullshit. The margins are the same.
They should be higher for mining by selling professional cards that are mining enabled and disabling mining in next gen gaming cards. Leaving two different cards for two completely different uses.
 
When AMD had the best cards they were gaining marketshare. The problem is, that evaporated once they lost that position. Having the best, the fastest, the strongest, card bring a lot of prestige on a company and it trickles on down their entire line. Nvidia has held that crown for nearly half a decade now. AMD has been unable to compete with Nvidia's high-end offerings since 2013. AMD's last performance topping card was over four and a half years ago. That is a very long time to be without a prestige card. In that time they have released exactly two cards that tried for the top end (Fury X and Vega 64) and both of them failed. In the minds of consumers AMD is the cheap, budget, brand. That hole was dug by AMD themselves. Its not consumer's faults, its not Nvidia's fault, it is 100% AMD's fuck up.

In the current world of crypto dominance market share doesn't really mean jack shit because your profits are so insanely inflated that it literally is a moot point. If/when things ever come back down to earth they wanted to be in a position of power to impede future intel/amd offerings in the market which is why the outcry was so severe over the gpp. Amd won't magically go back to selling more cards if crypto stops ruining the system, and Nvidia knows that. This is about pure greed and trying to keep inflated profits soaring even if crypto wanes.

The only thing that has any relevance right now is how much silicon you can produce, and Nvidia is positioned to crush AMD regarding that due to it's substantially larger base of partners in the industry that can keep them churning out gpus while amd is spinning it's tires. Amd has continued to compete well in the price/performance market for ever, despite not having the best cards, which is where the majority of gpu business sits anyways. If you think that the chart topping cards have anything to do with a companies performance in the gaming card sales sector you are quite mistaken.
 
What's the big deal? Sounds like nvidia just doesn't want their partners to brand their cards exactly the same as AMD. It's a reasonable request considering a 1080ti could look the same as a 580 when they're not even remotely in the same league causing consumer confusion. I'd be upset too if my product was on a shelf with a far lesser product who's packaging and branding looked just like mine.
 
Of course. People no longer vote with their wallets (maybe they never did). X company could toss a baby into a wood chipper for every 100 phones they sold and it would not hurt their sales one bit. People want their toys and they will have their toys, even if they know part of their dollar goes to subsidize the purchase of the baby, maintain the wood chipper, and pay the employee to do the deed.

It is as though any type of negative news about any company is just for the purposes of drawing attention to those who announce it. Beyond that, it does not seem to matter, in terms of impacting the toys people think they have to have.
 
What's the big deal? Sounds like nvidia just doesn't want their partners to brand their cards exactly the same as AMD. It's a reasonable request considering a 1080ti could look the same as a 580 when they're not even remotely in the same league causing consumer confusion. I'd be upset too if my product was on a shelf with a far lesser product who's packaging and branding looked just like mine.

I don't see anything in your post relevant to the topic. The huge green "Geforce GTX 1080 Ti" branding on the front of the box isn't enough to stop confusion between boxes with huge red "RX 580" branding on the front so it's a problem? A "Geforce GTX 1080" and "Geforce GTX 1060" aren't in the same league but they look almost identical on a shelf minus 1 digit but you have no consumer confusion concerns there? How about those lovely "Geforce GTX 1060" vs "Geforce GTX 1060" boxes on the shelf where the only difference is a tiny 3 or 6 in the corner? Right then.
 
Yes, you are the only one who thinks that, sorry to say for you. :rolleyes:
jayztwocents is an idiot.
time for AMD to follow suit.

rather than getting battered time and again by NVIDIA's superior but cynical marketing edge

make a super cheap bundle with HTC Vive, then see sales skew hard towards AMD. (that is really the only thing i can think off that NVIDIA does not compete with)
Yes, because not making any money on a product is a sure fire way to keep your company afloat :rolleyes:.

And have you not been paying attention to the VR reviews here at [H]?

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Of course. People no longer vote with their wallets (maybe they never did). X company could toss a baby into a wood chipper for every 100 phones they sold and it would not hurt their sales one bit. People want their toys and they will have their toys, even if they know part of their dollar goes to subsidize the purchase of the baby, maintain the wood chipper, and pay the employee to do the deed.

It is as though any type of negative news about any company is just for the purposes of drawing attention to those who announce it. Beyond that, it does not seem to matter, in terms of impacting the toys people think they have to have.
We're voting with our wallet by purchasing the best available product on the market. That doesn't excuse what NVIDIA is doing, but the GPP is hardly enough to make me stop buying NVIDIA video cards. I don't agree with the approach because I believe it is unethical, anti-competitive, and unnecessary from their position of market dominance.

So when is the 1180 Ti coming out :hungry:?
 
Like I said, toys come first.

I refuse to buy another NVidia product until they stop this nonsense. I am funny that way, I just cannot support a company I believe to be unethical and anti-competitive. It is one thing to hide this crap behind corporate doors, it is another to flaunt it.

Of course, right now, I could not buy one if I wanted to.
 
Like I said, toys come first.

I refuse to buy another NVidia product until they stop this nonsense. I am funny that way, I just cannot support a company I believe to be unethical and anti-competitive. It is one thing to hide this crap behind corporate doors, it is another to flaunt it.

Of course, right now, I could not buy one if I wanted to.

I hope Nvidia gets sued, loses, and has to pay a massive fine for this shit but if AMD doesn't release a card that is a viable upgrade to my 1080 I'm not going to buy an AMD GPU, even if it were possible to buy any cards right now. I can dislike what Nvidia is doing while at the same time not taking pity on AMD putting itself in its current situation.
 
I just registered to say thanks for bringing the whole GPP to the light.

I am old enough... so I remember the Athlon days, And I know what Intel did and how that ended.

So now I know it is in my best interest to not to get another Nvidia product for the years to come, even if that means sacrificing some performance or efficiency or functionality. I can live with that.

Younger people seem to not to care about the long term consequences but again, i am old enough, and I will act, and so will do my friends.

It is hard enough to live in a world where every sector is becoming a duopoly of colluding companies to let corporate greed try to make it a de facto monopoly.
 
I just registered to say thanks for bringing the whole GPP to the light.

I am old enough... so I remember the Athlon days, And I know what Intel did and how that ended.

So now I know it is in my best interest to not to get another Nvidia product for the years to come, even if that means sacrificing some performance or efficiency or functionality. I can live with that.

Younger people seem to not to care about the long term consequences but again, i am old enough, and I will act, and so will do my friends.

It is hard enough to live in a world where every sector is becoming a duopoly of colluding companies to let corporate greed try to make it a de facto monopoly.

I know what you mean. Been a part of this industry since its inception. Today is a different ball game. People just do not care anymore, as long as they get their toys. That is all that matters.

I do not have any feel for when that transition took place, but it is pervasive.
 
Yep, I've been a long time Red Team fan, and once I got a 4K monitor and started looking for video cards that could handle it. Guess what the 1080ti was the best one for reasonable $$$ and reasonable frame rates / visual quality.

Heck, I even waited for ATI's VEGA release to see if they would be competitive after the big letdown of the RX580... and nope. I was lucky that right after Vega's release I pulled the trigger on a 1080ti... the prices for everything are just effing nuts.

Oh yeah, GPP is terrible. But until AMD can get their act together and field a video card that's close enough to nVidia's performance on high resolution monitors, well... the top end is all nVidia's. AMD can battle for the 1080p graphics crowd.

I've seen several threads complaining about price/performace with AMD. I just don't get it. I've never felt like buying the top card and usually go one step down. When I bought my previous cards, the 980 was out and I bought a r9 fury for $270. Maybe not as fast, but well worth the money. The 1080ti is faster, but at $699, again, the vega 64 I bought for $469 was the better deal. Three screen eyefinity seems to work fine with it. Maybe AMD doesn't have the fastest, but their also not charging for it. The 1070 and 1080 are more expensive cards and my 64 runs with them for the most part.lu

While were at it, what is Nvidia's best seller? Titan? 1080ti? My guess would be the 1060 or 1050. Halo products are great, but not huge volume sellers. There's a reason AMD released the 580 first. Yeah, if you can afford 1080ti sli, go for it. The rest of us will look more down market, and Nvida doesn't want to share that market. That's what GPP is all about. Not Titans and 1080ti, they already have that market to themselves.
 
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I don't see anything in your post relevant to the topic. The huge green "Geforce GTX 1080 Ti" branding on the front of the box isn't enough to stop confusion between boxes with huge red "RX 580" branding on the front so it's a problem? A "Geforce GTX 1080" and "Geforce GTX 1060" aren't in the same league but they look almost identical on a shelf minus 1 digit but you have no consumer confusion concerns there? How about those lovely "Geforce GTX 1060" vs "Geforce GTX 1060" boxes on the shelf where the only difference is a tiny 3 or 6 in the corner? Right then.

You're confusing model numbers with packaging and branding. Huge difference. Companies spend small fortunes to make their products "look" different than the others on the shelf. Especially if you're a 1st tier brand you don't want your products to have a similar look to a 2nd tier brand. A cursory examination of packaging and branding between ASUS or MSI nvidia card and amd card will show they're very similar. Of course nvidia wouldn't like this and would want to do something about it. Amd wouldn't care as a 2nd tier brand because it makes them look better.

This is a huge problem from a packaging and branding perspective. They look far too similar.
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Wow, how amazingly arrogant of them. NVidia's hubris now places them up there with the likes of Apple and Intel. :sick:
 
You're confusing model numbers with packaging and branding. Huge difference. Companies spend small fortunes to make their products "look" different than the others on the shelf. Especially if you're a 1st tier brand you don't want your products to have a similar look to a 2nd tier brand. A cursory examination of packaging and branding between ASUS or MSI nvidia card and amd card will show they're very similar. Of course nvidia wouldn't like this and would want to do something about it. Amd wouldn't care as a 2nd tier brand because it makes them look better.

This is a huge problem from a packaging and branding perspective. They look far too similar.
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Nvidia doesn't own those brands so they should have no say in them. If they don't like it, well that's just too fucking bad for them. Using their near monopoly status to bully companies into following their demands, and cutting their competition off from beneficial branding and sales, is anti-competitive.
 
You're confusing model numbers with packaging and branding. Huge difference. Companies spend small fortunes to make their products "look" different than the others on the shelf. Especially if you're a 1st tier brand you don't want your products to have a similar look to a 2nd tier brand. A cursory examination of packaging and branding between ASUS or MSI nvidia card and amd card will show they're very similar. Of course nvidia wouldn't like this and would want to do something about it. Amd wouldn't care as a 2nd tier brand because it makes them look better.

This is a huge problem from a packaging and branding perspective. They look far too similar.
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Wow, you're right. I'd have never noticed one was Nvidia and the other AMD if you hadn't pointed it out. :)
I bet I'd have never noticed the price difference at check out either.
 
We will all keep buying nVidia.

If too many people actually follow through on all this “nVidia sux I’m
buying AMD”, nV justs pulls out big dick Volta and everyone drools and throws their wallets at their e-tailers.

I’m not defending nVidia, just pointing out what we all know is true.

I've been successfully not buying NVIDIA since the crap they pulled back in the days when they bought Ageia and locked down heterogenous gpu systems. It's really not that hard.
 
Nvidia doesn't own those brands so they should have no say in them. If they don't like it, well that's just too fucking bad for them. Using their near monopoly status to bully companies into following their demands, and cutting their competition off from beneficial branding and sales, is anti-competitive.

When you're a 1st tier brand you do. Welcome to business 101. Just like when a 1st tier studio tells theaters you will advertise and show our movie like this or you don't get to show it. Or when a particular brand tells a department store you will display our product like this on this shelf space if you want to sell it. Happens every day all around you.
 
When you're a 1st tier brand you do. Welcome to business 101. Just like when a 1st tier studio tells theaters you will advertise and show our movie like this or you don't get to show it. Or when a particular brand tells a department store you will display our product like this on this shelf space if you want to sell it. Happens every day all around you.

I wonder how many times Warner Bros. told a theater to bump a Disney film off the screen? Or Levi's told a department store that Wrangler would have to be moved to the back of the store? That only works with much smaller vendors. When it's 1 vs 2, no store or theater in it right mind would kick out one or the other, unless it was made extremely financially beneficial. At which point, anti trust and lawsuits start to fly. Thus is GPP.
 
Reminds me of the South Park episode when Cartman and Jimmy team up to write jokes. Cartman then steals the credit of the joke from Jimmy. When Jimmy confronts him over it, Cartman tells Jimmy that his ego is so big it won't let him think he wasn't part of creating the joke when in fact it is Cartman's ego that is so big he cannot imagine he didn't create the joke.

In a way, I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to think they helped create ROG and have some ownership over it.
 
to be fair it may help the normies know what there buying not every one reads every thing or care about specs like we do...
 
I wonder how many times Warner Bros. told a theater to bump a Disney film off the screen? Or Levi's told a department store that Wrangler would have to be moved to the back of the store? That only works with much smaller vendors. When it's 1 vs 2, no store or theater in it right mind would kick out one or the other, unless it was made extremely financially beneficial. At which point, anti trust and lawsuits start to fly. Thus is GPP.

Pretty common stuff actually. Disney told every theater in the US if they wanted to show Star Wars they had to show it on their biggest screen for 4 weeks straight otherwise they couldn't show it. That would mean bumping or precluding any other movie from any other studio from occupying that space during that time. Which most readily agreed to regardless of what Universal, Warner, or whatever movie was coming out.

Nvidia isn't telling asus they can't sell an amd card. They just don't want the packaging and branding to be the same as an amd card if they want their chips. It's rather shocking nvidia didn't demand this long ago. Any other brand in their position would have.
 
Reminds me of the South Park episode when Cartman and Jimmy team up to write jokes. Cartman then steals the credit of the joke from Jimmy. When Jimmy confronts him over it, Cartman tells Jimmy that his ego is so big it won't let him think he wasn't part of creating the joke when in fact it is Cartman's ego that is so big he cannot imagine he didn't create the joke.

In a way, I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to think they helped create ROG and have some ownership over it.

I was thinking it's more like Nvidia is Jimmy in the episode that he takes steroids and gets so power hungry and out of control that he beats up his mom in a fit of rage, breaking down into a stream of tears.

can someone clip this and make an amd logo over the girlfriend, and asus logo over the mother and an nvidia logo over jimmie? I'll be eternally in your debt.

 
When you're a 1st tier brand you do. Welcome to business 101. Just like when a 1st tier studio tells theaters you will advertise and show our movie like this or you don't get to show it. Or when a particular brand tells a department store you will display our product like this on this shelf space if you want to sell it. Happens every day all around you.

Indeed, and yet I doubt Disney will be able to make such high demands of theaters next time around. Just might happen with Nvidia.

As for JayzTwoCents, he can be an idiot like many a youtuber these days. He at least owns up to many of his mistakes (only reason I'll still occasionally watch his stuff as I'm not that into water cooling). It is hard to take someone seriously though when they build up a new system based on a new chip to overclock it and they choose a closed front panel case. But you know it looks pretty. A good lesson for newer builders watching at least.
 
You're confusing model numbers with packaging and branding. Huge difference. Companies spend small fortunes to make their products "look" different than the others on the shelf. Especially if you're a 1st tier brand you don't want your products to have a similar look to a 2nd tier brand. A cursory examination of packaging and branding between ASUS or MSI nvidia card and amd card will show they're very similar. Of course nvidia wouldn't like this and would want to do something about it. Amd wouldn't care as a 2nd tier brand because it makes them look better.

This is a huge problem from a packaging and branding perspective. They look far too similar.
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Try to see this from a different stand point:

Yes they look very similar, and for good reason, because it is not developed, branded, marketed, packaged, or (past the chip that was already purchased from Nvidia) made by Nvidia. What many of the various "gaming" lines means to me is higher than stock out of the box speeds, and an improved cooling system. It has no actual bearing on the chip being used. When you care about what chip is being used, that is when you look for the grossly large and in your face branding on the box. The person who quoted you right after your statement even pointed out that the 1060 is much more difficult to discern against the 1080 than a Vega 64 would be, and remember, a Vega 64 is faster than the 1060. How can this not be allowed to be part of a "gaming" line when the 1060 will be part of it? Remember that just because it doesn't go blow to blow with the 1080TI doesn't mean they are completely non competitive, just not the very top end segment.

If someone wanted to buy the best graphics card available, and they didn't do any research... I don't feel sorry for those consumers, and the packaging is not "preying" on people's ignorance. Would an ignorant consumer know which is faster than the other just by looking at the box? Probably not, however pricing schemes typically fall in line with performance. What I do consider "preying" is that in this new GPP world, the lower end GF line would still be in the main "gaming" lines, while a better AMD card would not.

Could a RX580 play games extremely well? Yes, should it be allowed to be part of a gaming line? Yes, it is a graphics card with plenty of power to play video games... Do you see where this is going yet?

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It's about time the DOJ investigates them under antitrust legislation.

This GPP coming especially as it does on the tails of the attempted lock-in strategies of GameWorks and G-Sync really is a textbook example of what is illegal anti-competitive practice under the Sherman Act.

I - for one - certainly hope the DOJ rips them a Microsoft-sized new one.
 
Pretty common stuff actually. Disney told every theater in the US if they wanted to show Star Wars they had to show it on their biggest screen for 4 weeks straight otherwise they couldn't show it. That would mean bumping or precluding any other movie from any other studio from occupying that space during that time. Which most readily agreed to regardless of what Universal, Warner, or whatever movie was coming out.

Nvidia isn't telling asus they can't sell an amd card. They just don't want the packaging and branding to be the same as an amd card if they want their chips. It's rather shocking nvidia didn't demand this long ago. Any other brand in their position would have.

So it's not actually about causing customer confusion as you said 5 minutes ago?
 
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