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GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice
- Thread starter FrgMstr
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You are putting completely unreasonable pressure and expectations on the AIBs and OEMs, this i snot their fault. They are being strong-armed by NVidia in this and you seem to think that they should feel shame for it.
I think you need to keep the real blame where it belongs and not beat up the vendors for doing what they have to do. They have no real choice in this, if they refuse to join GPP then they lose any reasonably competitive edge with the premier gaming products available today. NVidia has been the top performer for awhile now and even if AMD closes the gap, the latest from NVidia is in the pipe and being produced on the lines right now.
Why are you blaming little Johney for losing his lunch money when it's Two-Ton Timmy that took it from him?
You do make a good point there. Wish I could like it twice.
TaintedSquirrel
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This is why I buy EVGA. They don't even make AMD cards so I don't have to worry about them pulling shenanigans like this. Case in point: Have you seen anything negative about EVGA and the GPP yet? Nope, you haven't.
(This is sarcasm btw)
I feel bad for MSI, ASUS, and Gigabyte, they're going to get the shaft on this one. Meanwhile the Nvidia-exclusive partners are hiding in the corner.
I say just buy AMD workstation cards instead... you can actually buy them right now, they destroy NV in pro applications and hey they can game.
(sort of also sarcasm)So you advocate removing all economic pressure off 3rd party companies to not act weak willed and doing whatever Nvidia says? No, this was ultimately their choice. If they were smart, and made a decision that would be better for them and their consumers in the long term, they would have pushed back on Nvidia, or even abandon Nvidia.
When XFX wanted to start selling ATI cards years ago, and Nvidia told them they wouldn't get Fermi based cards if they did, XFX had enough guts and moral clarity to stand up to them and stop selling Nvidia altogether.
So no, I am not putting unreasonable pressure and expectations on AIBs and OEMs. I expect them to do right by their customers and not support Nvidia's attempt to cement their near monopoly. As far as I am concerned every company that goes along with Nvidia can go out of business.
Except you got that so fucking backwards it's laughable......
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-amd-discrete-gpu-market-share-report-q3-2017/
There are 3 to 4 times as many Lincolns running around than Fords, and now with the GPP, you can buy a Lincoln Navigator or a Ford Expedition, but where the Excursions have the "Reserve" and "Black Label" luxury trims, the Excursions can no longer be sold under the "Platinum" branding and can just be sold as plain old Ford Excursions.
You getting it?
DooKey
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I keep seeing the word "moral" when it comes to business decisions and business in general. That word means nothing to business. The five letter word they like is "money".
If some companies only care about money, all the more reason to never buy another product from these companies. These AIB companies make AMD motherboards and other products as well, maybe a drop off in sales will convince them going with the GPP was a bad idea.
DooKey
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If you think any for profit company cares about anything other than money I've got a time share on the moon to sell you.
I simply do not understand the Gigabyte hate. Don't you guys get it, they don't have a choice?
NVidia is the Snidely Whiplash in this story, not the other guys.
Whether this is legal or not remains to be seen. I think it's far too premature to claim that either way.
They have a choice. It may be a difficult choice, it may have an immediate detriment if they make that choice, but they have a choice. Maybe they should make that choice and then sue Nvidia for the unethical consequences of making that choice instead of kowtowing Nvidia's monopolistic practices.
Wait, let's revisit that sentence of yours;
This is a very clear and concise explanation of the problem and a direct result of NVidia's manipulation of AIB and OEM marketing options.
I don't know how you can read this and not see it as anti-competitive.
OK look, you really make liberal use of your crystal ball don't you?
Do you care to cite where anything at all supports your reasoning because it really sounds like you are just pulling this right out of your own hairy arse.
And don't go thinking that I am backing NVidia on this one. Several days ago I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, today I'm more likely to start calling my Congressman and the FTC.
You had me going too ....... I was already formulating my attack ....... had to call back the bombers
You want to put pressure on someone, put pressure on NVidia buy buying AMD, not by refusing to buy from the AIBs who don't have a reasonable choice.
You act like these businesses are individual people and not corporations with stock holders and board members. The company management has to answer for such decisions and the people up top only have one measuring stick $$$$
Let's say the CEO for GigaByte decides to take the moral high ground, who's going to back him? Are you and I all going to run out and order brand new Vega64 cards from GigaByte just to show our support? If there were any for sale that we can get to begin with? Where is that groundswell of grass-roots support for this man going to come from?
He is going to have to face his board of directors and report that revenues are down, their competition is up, the reason ..... I stood my ground against NVidia and their anti-competitive GPP program, lost funding and support for our NVidia based products just as NVidia released their latest GPU which kicks the dog shit out of AMD's current top performer Vega and anything they are likely to make of that architecture.
Is this how I am going to keep my responsibilities to these people who employ me? Is this how I'm going to keep my job or get my next better one?
Maybe AMD will pick me up and carry me for awhile, at least until they have to close their own doors.
I already plan to never buy Nvidia again. I also never plan to buy Gigabyte or any other company that supports Nvidia's monopolistic practices again.
I don't really care about any excuses or reasoning they may have for doing it. I am perfectly fine to make the CEO have to go to their board of directors and explain to them why the sales of their GPU, motherboard, PC accessory, and other devices are down.
A fine sentiment if totally unrealistic. They are not going to go out of business. Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI, etc ..... they won't go anywhere and this won't really hurt them bad at all.
It's going to suck ass for AMD though, and any component manufacturer that makes parts that are exclusive to AMD cards will be crying as well.
Competition won't be pushing NVidia to innovate as hard either. Maybe that's why AMD came out with a mining card and NVidia didn't. Maybe this is exactly the straw that has AMD throwing in the towel on the PC gaming card market. Oh they'll continue to compete for console and laptop graphics and they'll make mining cards.
But if you think the AIBs and OEMs are going to suffer greatly then I think you have an unrealistic view of the situation.
It's great to stand on the tall rock of the moral high ground, even if your view is from the bottom of the lake.
Your going to suck lake water and muck but you'll still be able to hold your head high.
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I have no idea what the hell you are babeling about. There is only so much as a consumer I or anyone can do and I am actually advocating to do something instead of full on pedal to the metal damage control for these AIBs that you seem to be advocating for.
Since you and I seem to be doing most of the talking at the moment, and Kyle seems to feel that the discussion is drifting off topic, I let this one settle in.
We don't see eye to eye on this and we don't have to.
I'll return you know to our regularly scheduled programing
Brackle
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Just curious, but have there been any lawsuit started yet over the GPP Program?
None as far as I know.
If the AIBs aren't willing to just tell Nvidia no, don't expect any lawsuits from them. If they sued Nvidia, Nvidia may pull an Nvidia and tell them they won't get Volta GPUs.
If I were AMD, I would sue Nvidia and these AIB companies.
KazeoHin
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But its not designed for gaming.
The good news is that the RX 580 Aorus is not showing as discontinued on disty sites. Interestingly enough Vega Frontier edition IS..
Hey, that's how all my porn comes, don't knock it.
TaintedSquirrel
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When was the last time a huge scandal actually stuck with a company? Even Meltdown/Spectre blew over after a few weeks. Nvidia has had numerous, as well. By the time Volta launches people will have forgotten about this.
It might come up again when the RX 600 series launches.
Did that happen when the WWF changed to WWE?
that is a pretty interesting point of view, but yeah they continue to lose market share even today. There are reasons for this. this is probably the best of example of why amd is needed in the gpu/cpu market.
The issue isn't... that we have to now create a whole new gaming brand.
The issue is that not everyone that buys gaming hardware are long time over clockers and hardware lovers. A lot of those Gaming Card sales are going to people who play games and games alone and don't give a toss about hardware at the end of the day. For such customers (who are the majority no matter what folks like us would like to believe) it will appear that the premier gaming brand is NV only because clearly those are the gaming chips, and the only real "high end" option.
The argument of well you can just create a new brand name for AMD and its all good... is silly. The average gamer who buys a GPU every few years and doesn't pay ANY attention to what is going on in the industry otherwise... is going to see the long time brand they know is NV and NV only and they will be sold. Simple as that. The average GPU customer isn't so in love with computing hardware that they know the ins and outs of every single GPU and CPU that hits the market.
The issue is that not everyone that buys gaming hardware are long time over clockers and hardware lovers. A lot of those Gaming Card sales are going to people who play games and games alone and don't give a toss about hardware at the end of the day. For such customers (who are the majority no matter what folks like us would like to believe) it will appear that the premier gaming brand is NV only because clearly those are the gaming chips, and the only real "high end" option.
The argument of well you can just create a new brand name for AMD and its all good... is silly. The average gamer who buys a GPU every few years and doesn't pay ANY attention to what is going on in the industry otherwise... is going to see the long time brand they know is NV and NV only and they will be sold. Simple as that. The average GPU customer isn't so in love with computing hardware that they know the ins and outs of every single GPU and CPU that hits the market.
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Bingo. And gaming BRANDS outsell non-gaming brands in the GPU space 3 to 1.
What makes them better though ?
Lets assume X OEM makes NV and AMD cards that are = quality. But only one of them has the "gaming" name on it. According to you the other one is crap clearly cause its not a gaming card. That is sort of why NV locking down any OEMs gaming brand as NV only is sort of a big deal.
KazeoHin
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but there is a reason 'GAMING' is put on everything. you can buy GAMING external HDDs, GAMING routers, GAMING chairs.
the word GAMING and the brands associated with GAMING pretty much get free sales. ANY salesperson or distro would tell you that is PC sales 101.
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So NVIDIA does not allow its GPP partners to sell AMD GPUs in gaming brands according to the GPP agreement. Not sure what else I can explain to you.