NY Municipalities to Charge Miners More For Electricity

Gigus Fire said:
Why? How would this be fraud? These are people who you are leasing mining equipment to. They get money and you get the coins. It's like solar installs on a lease. How is it any different?
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Probably because you're not a company or have the right type of paperwork.
 
Krenum said:
Probably because you're not a company or have the right type of paperwork.
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I'm not going to do this personally, i'm saying someone could make an LLC and make this all legit. Leasing equipment on contract. Just like a solar company does with equipment they put on your roof then they lease it to you. You get a discount on electricity, they get the solar credit and sell the electricity, except in this case you get the bit coin and they get some fixed amount per month. You distribute this across many households and focus on areas with cheap electricity. Exactly how would it be illegal?
 
Gigus Fire said:
Why? How would this be fraud? These are people who you are leasing mining equipment to. They get money and you get the coins. It's like solar installs on a lease. How is it any different?
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Then you are going to need the proof that you are leasing the hardware to them and they are fully in control of it. Everything that has been described so far is not leasing the equipment to the welfare people but "leasing" space and power *from* the welfare people.
 
The miners will just move their operations. NY is a horrible place, tax and regulation wise, for any sort of legitimate business anyway. You have to get lucky, or cheat to make real money there. Because everyone else is cheating too. NY is like the world's version of a cheaters server.
 
Now just add any conversion of digital currency to the highest tax bracket automatically...

And no exemptions/deductions.
 
250kWh per square foot per year, lets see I have a "modest" 1250 sqft home, that would average about 25000 kWh per month... uhhhh if you as a home owner use that much electricity you need to be beaten over the head.
 
Electricity is not something that is unlimited, where if you want more, you can just simply will it out of nothing.
As power consumption climbs, we'll need huge amount of money for additional infrastructure to cater for the additional demand.

If any particular group of users is causing an huge increase in power demand, then they should be charged more to cover for the additional expenses required to fulfill their demand.
 
Run electric heat and watch the power bill go up. I know people in apartments with electric bills between $1000.00 and $2000.00 a month. So for going after crypto guys is funny. Big farms well yeah. But people with 6 rigs or less is the same as electric heaters. Maybe They can make top tier video cards prices $2000.00 each permanent. Say GTX 1050ti's $450.00. That'll stop mining. But gamer's sorry you don't want mining. You have to pay for some way!
 
Airbrushkid said:
Run electric heat and watch the power bill go up. I know people in apartments with electric bills between $1000.00 and $2000.00 a month. So for going after crypto guys is funny. Big farms well yeah. But people with 6 rigs or less is the same as electric heaters. Maybe They can make top tier video cards prices $2000.00 each permanent. Say GTX 1050ti's $450.00. That'll stop mining. But gamer's sorry you don't want mining. You have to pay for some way!
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I gave up trying to parse this word salad on the fifth re-read.
 
I am happy to see action like this. Crypto mining is ridiculously innefficient. They are telling us to save every god darn watt of electricity, get more efficient lights, get more efficient appliances etc. and then these bozos fire up 1500watt mining rigs by the boat load and just suck all that extra "saved" energy away and cause the need for more investment in infrastructure that wouldn't otherwise be neccessary, or cause higher emmissions from coal fire plants that have to fire up to deal with the demand (more applicable during the summer months when everyone's AC is running, including ACs at these crypto mines....).

Also, with the disaster this has created for the PC gamer.... Seriously.... this just sucks.

I would be more than happy to see crypto currency crash in genral. I think as more regulation comes into play, things will taper off.... Either tat or it's just going to be a giant black market I guess. Not feeling the value of crypto currency just yet... Seems like a get rich quick scheme at the moment...
 
Just think if all these miners switched over to folding. You all would be crying about all power being used. Crypto is not going to go away.
 
NeghVar said:
I wonder how they intend to prove that the person is mining. High power consumption does not = mining
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You don't need to prove its mining. The increase is just tied to the power being used, regardless of the industry. If you read the article it just says high density load customers, if you use a ton of power in a small space, you are going to pay more. And that's how it should have been from the beginning for all businesses anyways. Now the only thing I'm seeing is the "if you don't qualify for Economic Assistance". I'm wondering if businesses in place that have high power densities can apply for, and receive that assistance, a way for them to check who's using the power and say GE can use it at their bulb plant, but Jimmy Crypto doesn't get approved for it.
 
What is up with all the ranting about "Welfare"? Welfare was effectively ended over twenty years ago. AFDC was eliminated, and the cash aid that remains carries work requirements, lifetime limits, etc. "Welfare queens" no longer exist -- if they ever did in the first place.

Then again, why let that interfere with a good opportunity to demonize the poor? They do make easy targets, after all.
 
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Krenum said:
If you're on Welfare and have enough money to buy mining equipment, then you need to be thrown in jail.
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Oh for sure, but I can guarantee it's happening. I'll never forget the day I was grocery shopping and the lady in front of me paid with food stamps, I didn't think anything of it cause hey if you need the help by all means that's what it's there for. But... once I got out to the car and loading my bags into my shitty broken Ford Taurus at the time the food stamp lady was loading hers into a Cadillac escalade.... seriously wtf..

Fraud is rampant with people on assistance so I could almost guarantee there are people on free energy assistance mining away on tax payer dollars.
 
NeghVar said:
I wonder how they intend to prove that the person is mining. High power consumption does not = mining
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The same way they know you grow weed.... Heat detecting choppers...

And we all know how that works out...
 
bugleyman said:
What is up with all the ranting about "Welfare"? Welfare was effectively ended over twenty years ago. AFDC was eliminated, and the cash aid that remains carries work requirements, lifetime limits, etc. "Welfare queens" no longer exist -- if they ever did in the first place.

Then again, why let that interfere with a good opportunity to demonize the poor? They do make easy targets, after all.
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Oh... Boo hoo.. There are thousands of unfilled jobs right now...
 
In my other post I talked about electric heaters. They consume a lot of power, I have a couple around here and one uses 1260 watts and the other is around 1500 watts. Picture the heat coming off them and having one in each room of your home. Those Heli's would think your growing weed or mining. But nope just heating.



hlfbkd420 said:
The same way they know you grow weed.... Heat detecting choppers...

And we all know how that works out...
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sfsuphysics said:
250kWh per square foot per year, lets see I have a "modest" 1250 sqft home, that would average about 25000 kWh per month... uhhhh if you as a home owner use that much electricity you need to be beaten over the head.
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I have a 2500 sq foot house, and we use about 1 to 2% of that.
But then I live in California that already has a tiered rate structure, and I can barely afford my current electric bill.
 
bugleyman said:
What is up with all the ranting about "Welfare"? Welfare was effectively ended over twenty years ago. AFDC was eliminated, and the cash aid that remains carries work requirements, lifetime limits, etc. "Welfare queens" no longer exist -- if they ever did in the first place.

Then again, why let that interfere with a good opportunity to demonize the poor? They do make easy targets, after all.
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Except in 2012 Obama gutted the work requirement, basically making it optional for the states to enforce.

"On July 12, the Obama Administration issued a bureaucratic edict declaring that state welfare bureaucracies would no longer need to comply with the work participation standards established in the 1996 welfare reform law. Under the new policy, all states and all TANF recipients could potentially be exempted from federal work requirements."
 
CannibalTrout said:
Oh for sure, but I can guarantee it's happening. I'll never forget the day I was grocery shopping and the lady in front of me paid with food stamps, I didn't think anything of it cause hey if you need the help by all means that's what it's there for. But... once I got out to the car and loading my bags into my shitty broken Ford Taurus at the time the food stamp lady was loading hers into a Cadillac escalade.... seriously wtf..

Fraud is rampant with people on assistance so I could almost guarantee there are people on free energy assistance mining away on tax payer dollars.
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It's quite likely that she didn't receive those stamps from the government but bought them for actual recipients for something like 70-80 cents per dollar.
 
nutzo said:
Except in 2012 Obama gutted the work requirement, basically making it optional for the states to enforce.

"On July 12, the Obama Administration issued a bureaucratic edict declaring that state welfare bureaucracies would no longer need to comply with the work participation standards established in the 1996 welfare reform law. Under the new policy, all states and all TANF recipients could potentially be exempted from federal work requirements."
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TANF, unlike AFDC, is still time-limited. Welfare is no longer a viable lifestyle.
 
hlfbkd420 said:
Oh... Boo hoo.. There are thousands of unfilled jobs right now...
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I guess "working poor" isn't a phrase with which you are familiar?

Also, a lack of compassion isn't a trait I'd go around advertising. To each their own, I suppose.
 
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mnewxcv said:
Sounds like this will affect non miners as well, though not sure who else uses that much power. That being said, smaller operations shouldn't be affected.
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It sounds like they are targeting the larger data centers. Good. If enough of the world does this, then maybe, just maybe, the cryptocrazies will find another way to mine using less power and not have to use video cards as well.

Bring on those penalties! Bring on the regulations! Bring on higher taxes! Whatever it takes to get this crap to change canot happen fast enough as far as I am concerned.

NeghVar said:
I wonder how they intend to prove that the person is mining. High power consumption does not = mining
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It does not have to be about mining. Any abnormaly high power usage should be subject to regulation/taxation as far as I am concerned.
 
Nukester said:
About time. The general population is having to subsidize miners excessive use of energy.
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I am not a miner, but I do use electricity. ;) How, exactly does a uniform price per Kwh delivered equate to being subsidized?

This, to me, is the same as changing the price based on time of day. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I disagree that a public utility (which all electrical generators are in the US) should try to shape customer behavior.
 
BSmith said:
It does not have to be about mining. Any abnormally high power usage should be subject to regulation/taxation as far as I am concerned.
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Like exceeding an undisclosed data cap on an "unlimited" broadband deal?
 
bugleyman said:
TANF, unlike AFDC, is still time-limited. Welfare is no longer a viable lifestyle.
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True.
It's just used until your fake disability claim gets approved, or you get a new fake identification so you can file under a different name.
 
nutzo said:
True.
It's just used until your fake disability claim gets approved, or you get a new fake identification so you can file under a different name.
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I'm not going to sit here and say that no one games the system, but getting a fake ID so you can collect $300 a month in TANF benefits for another year or two isn't remotely practical. Even if it were, that wouldn't change the fact we are spending less today than we were before welfare reform. Finally, many of the remaining (non-cash) benefits (SNAP, housing assistance) actually go to people who are working.

Per https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-on-welfare-each-year/?utm_term=.7b8eda1b2bd4:

There are five big programs in the Cato list that are most analogous to what people think of as “welfare”:
  1. The refundable part of the Earned Income Tax Credit ($55 billion)
  2. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families ($21 billion)
  3. Supplemental Security Income ($43.7 billion)
  4. Food Stamps ($75 billion)
  5. Housing vouchers ($18 billion) the Child Tax Credit
All together, that’s around $212 billion dollars​

#1 is only for the employed.
Roughly 1/3 of #4 goes to households with at least one person employed.
The Child Tax Credit is not refundable; that is, you can't get it unless you have income, and therefore tax liability, to offset.

So we're talking about somewhere between $115 billion and $133 billion in aid to households without earned income. That's far from peanuts, but it isn't what is going to bankrupt the country.

In short, blaming the lazy, unemployed poor people for the country's fiscal woes is expedient, but inaccurate.
 
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bugleyman said:
All together, that’s around $212 billion dollars

So we're talking about somewhere between $115 billion and $133 billion in aid to households without earned income. That's far from peanuts, but it isn't what is going to bankrupt the country.
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Just as I would expect from a Washington Post story. Reporting partial numbers make it seem like we spend less.

Try looking at state spending as in this story from market watch that puts the total number at $346.9 billion? (3 times as high as the federal numbers)

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/n...-when-it-comes-to-welfare-spending-2017-11-28

California alone is spending $103 billion.
 
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spaceman said:
Uh no. Welfare gets you about $700 a month. Nobody is mining on that budget. My wife is a social worker. She knows. These folks barely eat.
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Yeah, don't bother... The post you replied to is nothing but dog-whistle (TOOT! TOOT!) scum bag bullshit.
 
nutzo said:
Just as I would expect from a Washington Post story. Reporting partial numbers make it seem like we spend less.

Try looking at state spending as in this story from market watch that puts the total number at $346.9 billion? (3 times as high as the federal numbers)

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/n...-when-it-comes-to-welfare-spending-2017-11-28
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So...is this the part where I say "this is just what i'd expect from a marketwatch story"?

I have no interest in engaging in a war of dueling links. Obviously we aren't going to agree, so I'll just explain my perception of your position thusly:

poor-bashing-1.png

...and call it good.
 
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Vildayyan2003 said:
Here is the part you really need to understand. I'f you are making easy cash by the bucket then people will want to take a share of it anyway they can, plain and simple.
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And what does that have to do with media engaging in obvious action to push a false idea to promote that?
 
Spidey329 said:
Just going to go out on a limb here and say that [H] only focuses on Crypto because it's tech-related. Unless it's a slow weekend, I wouldn't expect to find a "power usage of paper money production" article.

Furthermore, [H] didn't write the article. They simply linked to it with an [H] summary. You can feel free to submit articles to them for inclusion in the news.
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Yet they continue to choose news reposts that specifically target crypto negatively. They have plenty of articles shown to them about the positives. There's a clear uniform direction in the type of crypto news they are referring.
 
JerRatt said:
Yet they continue to choose news reposts that specifically target crypto negatively. They have plenty of articles shown to them about the positives. There's a clear uniform direction in the type of crypto news they are referring.
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cryptocoins literally don't enable anything. They have zero actual positives. The primary uses for cryptocoins is pyramid schemes, money laundering, buying contraband, and paying ransoms.
 
Good Get Rid of the Miners, So us Mostly Gamers can get First Shot at New Gen cards Coming.
Prices have Tapered off though some.
 
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