NY Municipalities to Charge Miners More For Electricity

rgMekanic

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UtilityDive is reporting that New York regulators will allow municipal power providers to charge higher rates to cryptocurrency mining operations. Electricity costs for high-density load customers will increase beginning in March, said the PSC, if customers they do not quality for economic assistance, and have a maximum demand exceeding 300kW, and a load density that exceeds 250kWh per square foot per year.

This isn't the first time we have covered the massive power consumption that cryptocurrency mining brings with it. Just last week we wrote of a town in Washington experiencing first hand the results. Good to see New York deal with this, hopefully more will be on board.

In upstate New York, there are at least three cryptocurrency companies operating, and in some cases, these customers account for a third of their local muni's load, according to the Public Service Commission.
 
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Sooooo.. the people on welfare can become the miners, continue to leech off the tax payers AND make money mining?

Sounds good to me.

All this will do is have the people that have the mining operations move those mining operations to the slums.
 
Sooooo.. the people on welfare can become the miners, continue to leech off the tax payers AND make money mining?

Sounds good to me.

All this will do is have the people that have the mining operations move those mining operations to the slums.


If you're on Welfare and have enough money to buy mining equipment, then you need to be thrown in jail.
 
If you're on Welfare and have enough money to buy mining equipment, then you need to be thrown in jail.
I'd say establish an agreement with the welfare recipients, set up mining equipment in their house and you pay them for the electric and a fair rental fee, distribute the electric load for your operation and reap in the benefits.

This is just stupid to target commercial operations considering this entire system of mining is highly distributive.
 
What part of the article is false information please?

That in context, cash and credit is far more energy expensive than crypto to produce and maintain. Yet we only see targeting on crypto? Omission of facts and context is a form of false information.

Also, just like news sources selectively picking only one side of a topic repeatedly, and focusing on that, is a specific choice made with an agenda.
 
Doesn't this just mean the miners will simply need to rent out smaller spaces? Yes, it's probably a bit nicer to check on 30 racks of mining if it's in one place, then going to check in closets in 30 different light commercial offices, but if it means getting electricity for 50% cheaper than the rest of country, you can probably make the people problems work.
 
I don't think you understand how a power grid works.. Most of these power plants in small communities sell their excess power to bigger cities for *MUCH* more expensive rates.

I don't think you understand that we do not produce enough power in the USA as it is. Mining is just eating up our resources.
 
That in context, cash and credit is far more energy expensive than crypto to produce and maintain. Yet we only see targeting on crypto? Omission of facts and context is a form of false information.

Also, just like news sources selectively picking only one side of a topic repeatedly, and focusing on that, is a specific choice made with an agenda.
Here is the part you really need to understand. I'f you are making easy cash by the bucket then people will want to take a share of it anyway they can, plain and simple.
 
Sounds like this will affect non miners as well, though not sure who else uses that much power. That being said, smaller operations shouldn't be affected.
 
Sooooo.. the people on welfare can become the miners, continue to leech off the tax payers AND make money mining?

Sounds good to me.

All this will do is have the people that have the mining operations move those mining operations to the slums.

Uh no. Welfare gets you about $700 a month. Nobody is mining on that budget. My wife is a social worker. She knows. These folks barely eat.
 
That in context, cash and credit is far more energy expensive than crypto to produce and maintain. Yet we only see targeting on crypto? Omission of facts and context is a form of false information.

Also, just like news sources selectively picking only one side of a topic repeatedly, and focusing on that, is a specific choice made with an agenda.


Just going to go out on a limb here and say that [H] only focuses on Crypto because it's tech-related. Unless it's a slow weekend, I wouldn't expect to find a "power usage of paper money production" article.

Furthermore, [H] didn't write the article. They simply linked to it with an [H] summary. You can feel free to submit articles to them for inclusion in the news.

Uh no. Welfare gets you about $700 a month. Nobody is mining on that budget. My wife is a social worker. She knows. These folks barely eat.


He may have been talking about the other welfare recipients, corporations.
 
Uh no. Welfare gets you about $700 a month. Nobody is mining on that budget. My wife is a social worker. She knows. These folks barely eat.

Well they're going to be making a lot more when I start renting their electricity!
 
Nope, I do not mine, I only do DC projects on my video cards, so charge me the lower price. Thanks! :)
 
Well they're going to be making a lot more when I start renting their electricity!

Just team up with a Haitian gang in the hood. Find one of their charismatic, yet ballsy leaders. Bring him in on the deal. You'll need him when the Russians move on your turf.

/Startup (show)
 
That in context, cash and credit is far more energy expensive than crypto to produce and maintain. Yet we only see targeting on crypto? Omission of facts and context is a form of false information.

Also, just like news sources selectively picking only one side of a topic repeatedly, and focusing on that, is a specific choice made with an agenda.


Wait, no rationalized arguments, you said false information and fear, all i see is straight up reporting in this article.

And I asked where is the false reporting, I didn't ask if it was a smart move, fair, or if there are other issues surrounding it.

See, for a town like the small one mentioned in this article, none of what you are talking about matters. Their power bills are going up, for many people, and it's because of a very few people linked to a business model that doesn't really bring much to a small community. What benefits are these people getting by having a few commercial cryptocurrency miners around?

Are the employing some locals? Are the consuming a lot of goods or services that have positive effects on a small community?

Look man, if you are doing some mining on the side who cares. These guys running big mining setups are not you. When someone attacks them because they are having a negative impact on a community with little to no upside, they aren't attacking you. Not by association, you are not the same.

Unless you are ..........


EDIT: In all fairness, I owe you a small apology as I mistook your reply to someone else as a reply to my post. It's still the same in a way, but yea, not really because you were responding to him and not me. If you are feeling persecuted then please accept that apology because I wasn't intending to gang up on you.
 
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Sounds like this will affect non miners as well, though not sure who else uses that much power. That being said, smaller operations shouldn't be affected.

This what I was thinking. This is meant to Target miners but who else will be affected? Not sure of any other energy dense operations that aren't mining related, but who knows.
 
IMO, this makes no sense. Say whatever you want about cryptocurrency but this has more implications instead of people going "rabble rabble, down with bitcoin, rabble rabble". What if you got charged more for your water usage of water because you took a bath in a bath tub? As opposed to all the regular folk who might take a shower instead (ignore the amount of water used; I'm talking about the rate of charge for a given measurement of water).

Sounds ridiculous now, doesn't it? Next, you'll get charged more for electricity because you use a SmartTV versus a regular TV.
 
IMO, this makes no sense. Say whatever you want about cryptocurrency but this has more implications instead of people going "rabble rabble, down with bitcoin, rabble rabble". What if you got charged more for your water usage of water because you took a bath in a bath tub? As opposed to all the regular folk who might take a shower instead (ignore the amount of water used; I'm talking about the rate of charge for a given measurement of water).

Sounds ridiculous now, doesn't it? Next, you'll get charged more for electricity because you use a SmartTV versus a regular TV.

Except these are provisions based on the amount of power usage, to you your analogy, if I used an olympic sized pool to take a bath, and drained it and refilled it each bath my family takes, yes... I would expect to pay more for my actions.
 
IMO, this makes no sense. Say whatever you want about cryptocurrency but this has more implications instead of people going "rabble rabble, down with bitcoin, rabble rabble". What if you got charged more for your water usage of water because you took a bath in a bath tub? As opposed to all the regular folk who might take a shower instead (ignore the amount of water used; I'm talking about the rate of charge for a given measurement of water).

Sounds ridiculous now, doesn't it? Next, you'll get charged more for electricity because you use a SmartTV versus a regular TV.


Are you watching a lot of TV, like that's your business model, a business in business to watch TV?

I take showers for a living sir.

What I am saying is, it's best not to mix personal use scenarios with business venture scenarios. Most cities want more businesses in their communities, and even go to some effort and expense to attract businesses. My father's Sheet Metal Shop was taken by the City of Lubbock, TX, Eminent Domain...... the city was putting in an on-ramp for the new highway. They sure didn't give him a fair deal, no way he could put up another comparable building anywhere in town for what they gave him even after taking them to court over it and squeezing them for a little more, it was hopeless. They destroyed his business. Then a small town 30 miles away, the other direction, offered him a free building if he would set up shop there. He did, but the damage was done, he never really recovered from it.

Now his little Sheet Metal Business never employed more than about 7 guys total, sometimes it got down to just 2 or 3 including my father, the owner. So his company wasn't really responsible for a lot of people having jobs, buying homes, paying taxes, etc. In contrast, how much are these cryptominers bringing into the communities they set up in?

Businesses are not individuals, best not to mix them up.
 
Except these are provisions based on the amount of power usage, to you your analogy, if I used an olympic sized pool to take a bath, and drained it and refilled it each bath my family takes, yes... I would expect to pay more for my actions.

I wouldn't expect to pay more. Sure, you should get charged for the amount of water you use in your "bath", but not at a higher rate. They will go elsewhere if you do. Then what's left? If they're able to generate this amount of electricity, then it shouldn't be an issue and prices should not go up because.... you use more things than the average bear. You want a case example of stupid? Look no further than my home province of Ontario. We have high electricity rates, we over produce and we end up PAYING NY and QC to take our excess. Makes perfect sense right?


Are you watching a lot of TV, like that's your business model, a business in business to watch TV?

I take showers for a living sir.

What I am saying is, it's best not to mix personal use scenarios with business venture scenarios. Most cities want more businesses in their communities, and even go to some effort and expense to attract businesses. My father's Sheet Metal Shop was taken by the City of Lubbock, TX, Eminent Domain...... the city was putting in an on-ramp for the new highway. They sure didn't give him a fair deal, no way he could put up another comparable building anywhere in town for what they gave him even after taking them to court over it and squeezing them for a little more, it was hopeless. They destroyed his business. Then a small town 30 miles away, the other direction, offered him a free building if he would set up shop there. He did, but the damage was done, he never really recovered from it.

Now his little Sheet Metal Business never employed more than about 7 guys total, sometimes it got down to just 2 or 3 including my father, the owner. So his company wasn't really responsible for a lot of people having jobs, buying homes, paying taxes, etc. In contrast, how much are these cryptominers bringing into the communities they set up in?

Businesses are not individuals, best not to mix them up.

Sorry I haven't the faintest idea of what you are on about. But to address what I did get - business are not individuals but they employee individuals. Regardless, I'm not talking about businesses or individuals here. I'm talking logic.
 
Uh no. Welfare gets you about $700 a month. Nobody is mining on that budget. My wife is a social worker. She knows. These folks barely eat.

What is stopping the miners from "renting" space in welfare recipients' residences and thus putting their mining operations in locations that will be exempt from the rate hike?

And really, what is to stop the miners from being welfare recipients. They just have to not have a real job or make below a certain threshold to be on welfare.

And you also can take into account those on disability. They are welfare recipients as well. Even if they are physically sound now, once you are on disability, you stay there for life unless that has changed recently.

There are so many ways around a targeted rate hike like that that it is silly to think it will actually do anything of significance.
 
IMO, this makes no sense. Say whatever you want about cryptocurrency but this has more implications instead of people going "rabble rabble, down with bitcoin, rabble rabble". What if you got charged more for your water usage of water because you took a bath in a bath tub? As opposed to all the regular folk who might take a shower instead (ignore the amount of water used; I'm talking about the rate of charge for a given measurement of water).

This isn't taking a bath in a bath tub levels here. This is taking a bath in an Olympic sized pool everyday and then immediately draining it and refilling it for the next day.

And yes, it is reasonably common to charge different rates based on total power usage and power density usage. Variations on this have been going on for a long time because power costs can vary greatly depending of connectivity, volume, etc.
 
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what is to stop the miners from being welfare recipients
That they would starve buying the equipment needed. Also if their electric use went way up they would probably get hauled into court (where did they get the money to buy the equipment?) and the electric company would probably demand up front payment since they have no credit.
But people paying them to rent room might happen, but the sudden eclectic use spike is going to call in all sorts of attention, and they risk losing what little they get out of welfare and probably what little medical care for a few dollars extra a month? Not going to happen (or not after a case or two gets publicized).
 
I wouldn't expect to pay more. Sure, you should get charged for the amount of water you use in your "bath", but not at a higher rate. They will go elsewhere if you do. Then what's left? If they're able to generate this amount of electricity, then it shouldn't be an issue and prices should not go up because.... you use more things than the average bear. You want a case example of stupid? Look no further than my home province of Ontario. We have high electricity rates, we over produce and we end up PAYING NY and QC to take our excess. Makes perfect sense right?

Neither power nor water supplies are linear with capacity. As you increase capacity, you hit stepwise functions in costs. And as you increase capacity further the height of the steps increases. And you aren't using more than the average bear, you are using more than a whole neighborhood of the average bears. You are not economically returning what you are costing. I'm reminded of when some towns in Colorado decided to price in the 5-10 year city cost of a new house into building permits. People were shocked that it cost 15-30k just to support a new house.
 
If you're on Welfare and have enough money to buy mining equipment, then you need to be thrown in jail.

I dont know where you are located, but the local Jobs and family service, AKA Welfare office, here in north east ohio has more Escalades, and Mercedes on 20" and bigger rims than the any local "job" parking lot...
 
I'd say establish an agreement with the welfare recipients, set up mining equipment in their house and you pay them for the electric and a fair rental fee, distribute the electric load for your operation and reap in the benefits.

Equipment wouldn't last a week. Their druggie friends would steal the equipment and sell it to a pawn shop for a hundred dollars.
 
Equipment wouldn't last a week. Their druggie friends would steal the equipment and sell it to a pawn shop for a hundred dollars.
don't put it in a standard pc box, put it in a steel box with intrusion detection and a cell card that has gps installed.

The idea isn't to give them some computer and let them chuck it to the pawn shop, the idea is to run a distributed mining operation utilizing at a discount electricity because the state is a sucker. If it's too much of a risk, get them to give a deposit of 1000$. They don't even need to have internet, it could be done via wifi.
 
I dont know where you are located, but the local Jobs and family service, AKA Welfare office, here in north east ohio has more Escalades, and Mercedes on 20" and bigger rims than the any local "job" parking lot...

Welfare fraud can be very profitable. I see it out here in California all the time.

I'm buy the chicken that's on sale, while the person using an EBT card is paying full price for steaks.
The person who check out after her pulls out a wad of cash to pay for 2 cases of beer, and they both leave the store and get into a newer/more expensive car than I drive.
 
I dont know where you are located, but the local Jobs and family service, AKA Welfare office, here in north east ohio has more Escalades, and Mercedes on 20" and bigger rims than the any local "job" parking lot...

Here to, its everywhere and it makes me sick. We were on assisted living for a time when I was growing up due to my mother not being able to work from complications with her type 1 diabetes. Every time I see a video or hear about that crap it makes me so angry.
 
don't put it in a standard pc box, put it in a steel box with intrusion detection and a cell card that has gps installed.

The idea isn't to give them some computer and let them chuck it to the pawn shop, the idea is to run a distributed mining operation utilizing at a discount electricity because the state is suckers. If it's too much of a risk, get them to give a deposit of 1000$. They don't even need to have internet, it could be done via wifi.

That all sounds like a great way to get charged with conspiracy to commit fraud and spend a couple years in prison. If you are doing something like this, you want ZERO paper trail.
 
That all sounds like a great way to get charged with conspiracy to commit fraud and spend a couple years in prison. If you are doing something like this, you want ZERO paper trail.
Why? How would this be fraud? These are people who you are leasing mining equipment to. They get money and you get the coins. It's like solar installs on a lease. How is it any different?
 
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