GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

Darth Kyrie said:
Can you imagine ASUS or Dell signing up for this slop and not being able to call the new Intel Kaby Lake G laptops, gaming laptops. Intel would be pissed.
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well that is what I don't get, cause Kaby Lake G isn't going against Pascal (which they are pretty much equal to low end Pascal performance or power consumption (not both one or the other). Its going to be going up against next gen and Kaby lake G is not going to do well against that anyways.
 
razor1 said:
well that is what I don't get, cause Kaby Lake G isn't going against Pascal (which they are pretty much equal to low end Pascal performance or power consumption (not both one or the other). Its going to be going up against next gen and Kaby lake G is not going to do well against that anyways.
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What I'm saying is that if ASUS signs up for this they wouldn't be able to call their laptop with Kaby Lake G a ROG laptop because that name is only for nVidia.
 
Darth Kyrie said:
What I'm saying is that if ASUS signs up for this they wouldn't be able to call their laptop with Kaby Lake G a ROG laptop because that name is only for nVidia.
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Yeah but it won't matter Kaby Lake G won't look like a gaming notebook if its high end one is going to going up against the lowest of low end next gen, its what we have right now. Don't we expect gtx 1050ti performance in the entry level low end GPU next gen?
 
I hate to burst the bubble, but Vega is the king of mining all things.Both in speed and efficiency.
 
Imhotep said:
I hate to burst the bubble, but Vega is the king of mining all things.Both in speed and efficiency.
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err no its not

Its right around the gtx 1080ti, check what to mine ;)

I get around 2 to 2.50 a gtx 1080ti, Vega is under 2 to 2 ;).
 
Trust me , its not. Hope these assholes at nicehash didn't clean your wallet the last go round. :D
 
fingerbob69 said:
So ROG belongs to Asus. Hence

ROG + Geforce
ROG + Radeon

However, if Asus sign up to nVidia GPP then there can only be

ROG + Geforce.


Now ....ROG belongs to nVidia!



Is it really so hard to see why there is an issue with GPP?
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The issue I see is Asus diluting the Nvidia brand by putting it under the same gaming brand as AMD which is inferior. Why should Nvidia accept this under GPP? Of course Asus could opt out as could every other AIB and OEM. So why are they signing up?
 
Hielo_loco said:
Well, I will not even consider a video card if it has not been reviewed by HardOCP, so the fact that said review comes later should not affect my decisions or recommendations to friends. If anything, this sort of stuff is why I consider HardOCP the best tech review site, because it understands that they owe themselves to their own integrity and the end consumers, and not to these companies, whichever they might be. No fake news in here.
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I pulled the trigger on my entire computer system build based solely on Hard|OCP reviews, both by staff and the users of the HardForum. This place has been my best go-to site for anything computing since 1997, and likely shall remain so until Kyle pops an aneurysm & ends up in a retirement home.
 
Imhotep said:
Trust me , its not. Hope these assholes at nicehash didn't clean your wallet the last go round. :D
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I don't use nice hash for that single reason, they are paying me back though which until its fully paid I won't touch em. Even the nice hash calculator doesn't give Vega higher than 1080ti so......

I do multi mining with multiple pools and profit switching, that is much more profitable than using a single pool nice hash or otherwise.
 
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heatlesssun said:
And if that's the case then that's totally unacceptable and should draw anti-trust action. This kind of thing has gotten plenty of tech companies in trouble before, Microsoft and Intel are just two of many examples.
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Which brings up the next question: which politicians does nVidia have bought & paid for? Important information to know, so we as consumers can "burn out the infection" from both ends.
 
Darth Kyrie said:
Can you imagine ASUS or Dell signing up for this slop and not being able to call the new Intel Kaby Lake G laptops, gaming laptops. Intel would be pissed.
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And I would suggest that this is exactly on the agenda in this GPP plan.

Edit: And here is a big whatif for you, what if NVIDIA had said that it would no longer sell Max-Q parts if they did sell Kaby Lake G parts?
 
Modred189 said:
I've been team green since my debacle with CF 4850s. And I've been very happy, but that's because Nvidia has earned my business with great products and great partners. I've been team green since my 9800gt.

But this is the opposite. This is them taking business by some kind of racketeering scheme with the AIBs. They're holding funds and inventory hostage in exchange for leverage into AIB's branding activities. And then to threaten [H]?

That's shit, and it makes me seriously consider team red when I replace my 970.

Lose the crap, Nvidia, or lose enthusiast customers.
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Which brings up an interesting question: WHY is nVidia doing this?

Is it because they think the political landscape has changed enough to make them think they can become a monopoly, without repercussions?

Is it because they think the Microsoft model works & is more profitable?

Or, is it because something has scared them shitless, and that they KNOW they're going to be on the backside of a sea change in GPU tech, and spending furiously to catch up; therefore, they're trying to cockblock that competition (AMD?) and hurt them any way they can, before they themselves take it in the shorts?


I myself suspect #3...
 
Darth Kyrie said:
I am an AMD guy from way back in the early 90's, who used to pair his AMD cpus with nVidia GPUs (I have a long held hatred for Intel) but my first thought after reading your article is this is nVidia throwing a hissy fit over Intel using AMD gpus for the Kaby Lake G packages instead of using them for the gpu part.
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Intel couldn't use nV not the way Kaby Lake G was designed, it was made with HBM in mind, the only company that would put a low end GPU with such memory would be AMD. It was a tactical reason for Intel to choose AMD, because nV wouldn't do such a design.

PS this is desperation on AMD's part too, for even making such a design, its another low margin product for them. They know Vega can't compete with nV does matter what form factor its in. Intel has no choice because nV won't play ball and their graphics suck so.... next best thing enemy of my enemy is my friend.
 
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Big_Rig_Stig said:
Which brings up an interesting question: WHY is nVidia doing this?

Is it because they think the political landscape has changed enough to make them think they can become a monopoly, without repercussions?

Is it because they think the Microsoft model works & is more profitable?

Or, is it because something has scared them shitless, and that they KNOW they're going to be on the backside of a sea change in GPU tech, and spending furiously to catch up; therefore, they're trying to cockblock that competition (AMD?) and hurt them any way they can, before they themselves take it in the shorts?


I myself suspect #3...
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Based on what exactly?
A more reasonable assumption is that Nvidia is trying to protect/strengthen it's brand as the defacto "premium gaming" brand by leveraging their vastly superior market position.
Plain and simple. In fact, I'd say if anyone is "scared shitless" it's AMD, proven by them peddling this "story" around to anyone who will bite.

But who knows, maybe you're right and my next GPU will be an AMD card.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Or, is it because something has scared them shitless, and that they KNOW they're going to be on the backside of a sea change in GPU tech, and spending furiously to catch up; therefore, they're trying to cockblock that competition (AMD?) and hurt them any way they can, before they themselves take it in the shorts?


I myself suspect #3...
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Only if you're dishonest about AMD's graphics technology performance ;)
 
razor1 said:
because nV wouldn't do such a design.
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Nvidia has been happy to use HBM where it works- AMD trying to use it where it doesn't has bitten them in the ass twice now. I'd also bet that Nvidia would have been happy to provide Intel with an even more competitive part, you know, if Intel were willing to pay a more competitive price :D.
 
Wanna know why Intel and Apple don’t do business with Nvidia? Because Nvidia isn’t desperate for their money like AMD and demands it’s fair share of margins. Intel and especially Apple are used to getting their way and bending over their suppliers/partners so it’s not that Nvidia is greedy in as much as they know what their product and brand value are worth in the market.

Now with that said, AMD and Intel could both create their own versions of GPP as well, especially Intel. So why was AMD desperately shopping this “story” around to journalists? Because they don’t have the brand value, market share or products to justify such a program—if they did I promise they’d ride nvidias coattails like they do with everything else and copy them. So let’s not shed some tears for AMD here, they got outplayed and as usual are trying to make it seem sinister when it’s just good business.
 
A company that cries foul, that can't get their attorneys to do the talking for them, it all comes down to one thing, they know they are screwed and they know they can't do shit about it.
 
ChadD said:
Think you under estimate NV value in that relationship... or is it over estimate the manufacturers. :)

Asus for instance is a giant sure and their operating revenue is right around 2x that of NVs... however NV runs around 3x Asus Net. Yes NV makes 3x as much money as Asus with half the investment.

To think that Asus or the other big mfgs wouldn't tip toe and tow the line to keep NV happy is silly. Of course they would.
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The bigger issue for Nvidia in this scenario would be cutting off the 10% of the laptop market that Asus currently owns. Wouldn't be good for either company, but would be a tremendous boon to AMD.

I don't have any love for AMD, Nvidia, or Intel, but I do like to see them competitive with one another because there aren't any other real choices and if AMD goes tits up we will all be fucked.
 
NeoNemesis said:
The bigger issue for Nvidia in this scenario would be cutting off the 10% of the laptop market that Asus currently owns. Wouldn't be good for either company, but would be a tremendous boon to AMD.

I don't have any love for AMD, Nvidia, or Intel, but I do like to see them competitive with one another because there aren't any other real choices and if AMD goes tits up we will all be fucked.
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AMD graphics for gaming is pretty much tits up already for intensive purposes ;) and is going to remain so for another couple of gens.

The don't have any leverage in the pro markets, no leverage in DL/HPC, no leverage in PC gaming.

Do you know what this will do to consoles, if nV can do this? There are ramifications there too, if nV gets its AIB's to do what is stated in the article, once this program is well situated, will be like where is my nV graphics for Xbox or PS? On those are really great at gaming anymore I guess. This is how newbies coming from PC gaming to consoles will start looking at things.

That is what market leverage can do. Its a smart move for nV to do this. Again its how far they want to take it is what the problem is. I don't see AIB's being forced to cut out AMD from their product lines if they join this program. nV wants their own line, which by all means is not illegal. Once that happens if they start forcing AIB's to by manipulating market, pricing, or other means, pressure, then it becomes illegal.
 
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razor1 said:
A company that cries foul, that can't get their attorneys to do the talking for them, it all comes down to one thing, they know they are screwed and they know they can't do shit about it.
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Or a company smart enough to get journalists involved before the program becomes a reality and get it shot down. Which in turn means they don't have to deal with all the bullshit, lawyer and legal issues years down the road when they win a pittance of the money it cost them in the long run. You know, like with the bullshit Intel pulled.

You also have to wonder how AMD came to know about this program. I'd say it's quite likely the one or more of the companies who were basically going to be forced into the program went to AMD to see what they could do about it. The companies themselves couldn't do it for fear of retribution from nVidia but AMD doesn't have that problem.
 
NeoNemesis said:
The bigger issue for Nvidia in this scenario would be cutting off the 10% of the laptop market that Asus currently owns. Wouldn't be good for either company, but would be a tremendous boon to AMD.
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The closest AMD has come to being competitive in mobile lately is their collaboration with Intel- and while important and useful in terms of performance/volume, it's not really competitive any other way.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Or a company smart enough to get journalists involved before the program becomes a reality and get it shot down. Which in turn means they don't have to deal with all the bullshit, lawyer and legal issues years down the road when they win a pittance of the money it cost them in the long run. You know, like with the bullshit Intel pulled.

You also have to wonder how AMD came to know about this program. I'd say it's quite likely the one or more of the companies who were basically going to be forced into the program went to AMD to see what they could do about it. The companies themselves couldn't do it for fear of retribution from nVidia but AMD doesn't have that problem.
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That is not smart at all, because there is big money involved. Going to the press is a last resort, its a cry for help from the masses, masses are sheep, sheep don't have much unless they all pool together. As a company that could have confounded factors that will hurt them, its not something they would do unless as I stated its a last resort.

Oh you also have to wonder if they knew about the program, why don't know about the intricacies of it, they could have told Kyle exactly what is up right? Why did they tell him to look into it and not feed the info to him? They are in a better position then any tech journalist to know what is up, they will see how the AIB's are reacting to them, they will get first hand feed back with how orders are being changed from past, etc.

Can't have it both ways, AMD can't partake in saying they know about only that the program is there and not know what is going on in depth. Because they work with the same AIB's that are in this program. This is why their lawyers didn't get involved because so far they haven't been able to find anything. They already know how its going to hurt them and to what degree and what future ways it can hurt them. Things like this aren't taken for granted, its well thought out, the same way nV thought of the way they want to shape their Geforce brand and their goals for the future, AMD will think of all that and how its going to hurt them.

Essentially what nV wants to do is Geforce = Best gaming. AMD not in the same league, They want this in everyone's mind so when and if AMD can compete again in gaming, people will second guess them or pay no attention.

Its like the masses with Apple, how many people think Apple has the best computer products. They don't know that its the same underlying hardware as other computers. The only difference is software and they aren't ahead of MS in software.
 
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razor1 said:
A company that cries foul, that can't get their attorneys to do the talking for them, it all comes down to one thing, they know they are screwed and they know they can't do shit about it.
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How you can constantly be bringing this potential shitshow back to AMD throughout this thread is beyond me. This is about possible wrongdoings by Nvidia that are at best scummy, at worst illegal. It's not important if AMD or Jesus himself contacted anybody about this. This is the kind of thing that fucks over us, the consumers, whichever way you look at it.
 
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Meeho said:
How you can constantly be bringing this potential shitshow back to AMD throughout this thread is beyond be. This is about possible wrongdoings by Nvidia that are at best scummy, at worst illegal. It's not important if AMD or Jesus himself contacted anybody about this. This is the kind of thing that fucks over us, the consumers, whichever way you look at it.
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Its extremely important, AMD knows full well the program isn't illegal, they know the ins and outs of the program, they know how their AIB's which are the same AIB's that are in this program are reacting and know what and when those changes occurred, yet they went to public instead of outright getting an injunction.

We are people looking from the outside, as is Kyle, we need to ask questions to find out what is going on. AMD doesn't need to do this, they have first hand experience of what is going on.

You don't need to see a black hole to know its there.

All you need to see is how things around it are reacting.

This is the same situation. If the feedback, info and reactions from AIB's were so bad, AMD could do a injunction within days of getting that info. Just their sales info is enough for it to happen.
 
razor1 said:
That is not smart at all, because there is big money involved. Going to the press is a last resort, its a cry for help from the masses, masses are sheep, sheep don't have much unless they all pool together. As a company that could have confounded factors that will hurt them, its not something they would do unless as I stated its a last resort.

Oh you also have to wonder if they knew about the program, why don't know about the intricacies of it, they could have told Kyle exactly what is up right? Why did they tell him to look into it and not feed the info to him? They are in a better position then any tech journalist to know what is up, they will see how the AIB's are reacting to them, they will get first hand feed back with how orders are being changed from past, etc.

Can't have it both ways, AMD can't partake in saying they know about only that the program is there and not know what is going on in depth. Because they work with the same AIB's that are in this program. This is why their lawyers didn't get involved because so far they haven't been able to find anything. They already know how its going to hurt them and to what degree and what future ways it can hurt them. Things like this aren't taken for granted, its well thought out, the same way nV thought of the way they want to shape their Geforce brand and their goals for the future, AMD will think of all that and how its going to hurt them.
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Like you would believe anything that comes from AMD about this issue? Journos were informed, given a place to start, and some (read: Kyle) decided to dig into it by themselves and inform the public of what is going on.

And going to the press instead of the lawyers is smart and they had a painful lesson with Intel about that. It doesn't matter if it is eventually found to be illegal and AMD is awarded damages. AMD never recovered from what Intel did to them way back then. The accumulated damages from lost marketshare, lost revenue, smaller R&D budget etc. all played a huge part in putting them in a position they are in today. Not even double, triple or more amount of damages they've received would have been enough to compensate for that.
 
Meeho said:
Like you would believe anything that comes from AMD about this issue? Journos were informed, given a place to start, and some (read: Kyle) decided to dig into it by themselves and inform the public of what is going on.

And going to the press instead of the lawyers is smart and they had a painful lesson with Intel about that. It doesn't matter if it is eventually found to be illegal and AMD is awarded damages. AMD never recovered from what Intel did to them way back then. The accumulated damages from lost marketshare, lost revenue, smaller R&D budget etc. all played a huge part in putting them in a position they are in today. Not even double, triple or more amount of damages they've received would have been enough to compensate for that.
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Not saying going to trail, and injunction is not going to trial. You are talking about settlement, I'm not talking about that. The purpose of an injunction is stop anything from changing at a single point in time so the right information can be gathered to go to trial.
 
razor1 said:
Its extremely important, AMD knows full well the program isn't illegal, they know the ins and outs of the program, they know how their AIB's which are the same AIB's that are in this program are reacting and know what and when those changes occurred, yet they went to public instead of outright getting an injunction.

We are people looking from the outside, as is Kyle, we need to ask questions to find out what is going on. AMD doesn't need to do this, they have first hand experience of what is going on.

You don't need to see a black hole to know its there.

All you need to see is how things around it are reacting.

This is the same situation. If the feedback, info and reactions from AIB's were so bad, AMD could do a injunction within days of getting that info. Just their sales info is enough for it to happen.
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We are people looking from outside, but you have detailed knowledge on the issue to know its legality and injunction potential. Which is it?

And are you saying the feedback, info and reactions form AIBs weren't so bad and Kyle is lying?
 
razor1 said:
Not saying going to trail, and injunction is not going to trial. You are talking about settlement, I'm not talking about that. The purpose of an injunction is stop anything from changing at a single point in time so the right information can be gathered to go to trial.
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You are assuming they would have enough evidence to get one. That is a massive IF. Why take that gamble if you can prevent it by going public?
 
5150Joker said:
Wanna know why Intel and Apple don’t do business with Nvidia? Because Nvidia isn’t desperate for their money like AMD and demands it’s fair share of margins. Intel and especially Apple are used to getting their way and bending over their suppliers/partners so it’s not that Nvidia is greedy in as much as they know what their product and brand value are worth in the market.

Now with that said, AMD and Intel could both create their own versions of GPP as well, especially Intel. So why was AMD desperately shopping this “story” around to journalists? Because they don’t have the brand value, market share or products to justify such a program—if they did I promise they’d ride nvidias coattails like they do with everything else and copy them. So let’s not shed some tears for AMD here, they got outplayed and as usual are trying to make it seem sinister when it’s just good business.
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lol, so AMD is screwed either way and shame on them for not thinking of it first?
 
razor1 said:
That is not smart at all, because there is big money involved. Going to the press is a last resort, its a cry for help from the masses, masses are sheep, sheep don't have much unless they all pool together. As a company that could have confounded factors that will hurt them, its not something they would do unless as I stated its a last resort.

Oh you also have to wonder if they knew about the program, why don't know about the intricacies of it, they could have told Kyle exactly what is up right? Why did they tell him to look into it and not feed the info to him? They are in a better position then any tech journalist to know what is up, they will see how the AIB's are reacting to them, they will get first hand feed back with how orders are being changed from past, etc.

Can't have it both ways, AMD can't partake in saying they know about only that the program is there and not know what is going on in depth. Because they work with the same AIB's that are in this program. This is why their lawyers didn't get involved because so far they haven't been able to find anything. They already know how its going to hurt them and to what degree and what future ways it can hurt them. Things like this aren't taken for granted, its well thought out, the same way nV thought of the way they want to shape their Geforce brand and their goals for the future, AMD will think of all that and how its going to hurt them.

Essentially what nV wants to do is Geforce = Best gaming. AMD not in the same league, They want this in everyone's mind so when and if AMD can compete again in gaming, people will second guess them or pay no attention.

Its like the masses with Apple, how many people think Apple has the best computer products. They don't know that its the same underlying hardware as other computers. The only difference is software and they aren't ahead of MS in software.
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Post the proof that AMD knows all and sees all. You're claiming it, now back up your claim.

Since you also know all and see all, post up the whole of the terms of the program. You're claiming full knowledge of all terms of the program so it's time for you to post up the proof and back up your claims.
 
Meeho said:
You are assuming they would have enough evidence to get one. That is a massive IF. Why take that gamble if you can prevent it by going public?
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Yes they should have it they should have even more evidence that Kyle or any tech journalist can gather for years to come, already.

Going public doesn't work, there are no ramifications when you go public to any one if something being done is illegal. Not only that it diminishes your standing in a court of law.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Post the proof that AMD knows all and sees all. You're claiming it, now back up your claim.

Since you also know all and see all, post up the whole of the terms of the program. You're claiming full knowledge of all terms of the program so it's time for you to post up the proof and back up your claims.
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I know how these things work, I don't know the full details of these programs, go check my post to a moderator of this very forum about my background.

Public hearsay hurts a companies court case if there are grounds for such a case. No sane attorney will tell AMD go talk to the public about their problems if they are going to court!

Its like when a person is accused of murder, the attorney says shut up I'll do the talking for you, even in court lol.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
AMD is 'screwed' based on the performance of their products and the volume that they can produce them in.

And they're really not screwed, given that they're likely selling everything they can make.
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The screwed you are referring to is not what the reply is about.
 
razor1 said:
I know how these things work, I don't know the full details of these programs, go check my post to a moderator of this very forum about my background.

Public hearsay hurts a companies court case if there are grounds for such a case. No sane attorney will tell AMD go talk to the public about their problems if they are going to court!

Its like a when a person is accused of murder, the attorney says shut up I'll do the talking for you, even in court lol.
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I don't care about your "background". It means nothing. You've repeatedly claimed perfect knowledge of all the terms of the program and made pronouncements because of it. You've said repeatedly that there is nothing wrong with this program at all based on the terms.

I will again tell you to post up the full terms and details of the program you have or retract your so-called "factual" statements.
 
SmokeRngs said:
I don't care about your "background". It means nothing. You've repeatedly claimed perfect knowledge of all the terms of the program and made pronouncements because of it. You've said repeatedly that there is nothing wrong with this program at all based on the terms.

I will again tell you to post up the full terms and details of the program you have or retract your so-called "factual" statements.
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We don't know the terms of the program, nor does Kyle. AMD how ever does, they must know it, they know what is happening to their AIB partners, there is NO FUCKIN way around that, they wouldn't go out to try to get others to look into it if they didn't know what is in there.

Can you understand this, when a reaction to something happens, how is that reaction demonstrated shows us many things about what is going on in a persons head.

And when you know how things like this are done in court when things are illegal and what are not, you know when a person reacts to it by going to the public they have no FUCKIN grounds to stand up on. That is why they went to the public.

Ask a lawyer, there are many forums with attorneys on them they will tell you exactly what I stated, AMD would not go to the public unless they have grounds to fight nV on this.

I work with lawyers on almost a daily basis. Its part of my job to send things we have done for TV and movies to our legal department, I sit in those long ass legal reviews.
 
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