GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

heatlesssun said:
And this is a clear 1st Amendment issue. AMD comes out with the RX 600 or whatever for gaming, creates a marketing package with demos, benchmarks, etc. about gaming. But AMD partners that are also GPP members can in no way use the materials from AMD to talk about the RX 600's gaming capabilities? Totally and complete unenforceable and a clear 1st Amendment problem that's beyond obvious. Unless those GPP partners signed an agreement that SPECIALLY said they can't use AMD marketing and then that gets more into anti-trust.
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Not sure understanding what the intention of the GPP is.

There claim is to want to have "clear" branding.

They don't care if "Asus" or some other partner links to ATI marketing material on their website. Or includes ATI marketing jargon on the BACK of a product box.

They want partner Marque Brand names to be NV product only.

So if Dell sells a machine marketed as a gaming machine... the only option for GPU would be NV. They are free to sell ATI product in their NON-gaming product lines and talk about gaming performance all they want. But their marque Gaming lines CAN NOT use AMD product as per the GPP contract.

Yes this IS an anti trust issue.... however as Kyle seems to be saying the OEMs are to scared to go against NV on this... cause lets face it most hard core gamers would laugh at a OEM with a high end gaming line that was AMD only. No one is willing to harm their NV relationship.

This is very much like what Intel did to their partners back when AMD was just starting to tear things up. They forced them to sign very much the same type of contracts so they could slap "Intel inside" stickers on their boxes. No contract no sticker... confused customers... lower sales. So what did OEMS do back then... they agreed to only sell AMD cpus in their less then top of the line machines and got their stickers.

It sounds like this program is still in its infancy a bit... but the similarities are striking. OEMS do not bite the hands that feed them even when those hands start petting them in uncool ways, they still need to eat.
 
ChadD said:
Not sure understanding what the intention of the GPP is.

There claim is to want to have "clear" branding.

They don't care if "Asus" or some other partner links to ATI marketing material on their website. Or includes ATI marketing jargon on the BACK of a product box.

They want partner Marque Brand names to be NV product only.

So if Dell sells a machine marketed as a gaming machine... the only option for GPU would be NV. They are free to sell ATI product in their NON-gaming product lines and talk about gaming performance all they want. But their marque Gaming lines CAN NOT use AMD product as per the GPP contract.

Yes this IS an anti trust issue.... however as Kyle seems to be saying the OEMs are to scared to go against NV on this... cause lets face it most hard core gamers would laugh at a OEM with a high end gaming line that was AMD only. No one is willing to harm their NV relationship.

This is very much like what Intel did to their partners back when AMD was just starting to tear things up. They forced them to sign very much the same type of contracts so they could slap "Intel inside" stickers on their boxes. No contract no sticker... confused customers... lower sales. So what did OEMS do back then... they agreed to only sell AMD cpus in their less then top of the line machines and got their stickers.

It sounds like this program is still in its infancy a bit... but the similarities are striking. OEMS do not bite the hands that feed them even when those hands start petting them in uncool ways, they still need to eat.
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Until we start seeing that happening, that is the only way we can draw that conclusion. AMD shopped around this to pretty much every large tech journalist under the sun. They don't know if that is what is going to happen nor does Kyle, that is why he stated AMD came to him and asked him to look into it. OEM's and AIB's are afraid that GPP could take steps down that road and more, it hasn't happened yet. As it stands right now, there is nothing but possibilities.

Also no Intel did much more than not let them OEM's or not let them use stickers. They bribed OEM's with cash to stop selling AMD products period.
 
razor1 said:
Until we start seeing that happening, that is the only way we can draw that conclusion. AMD shopped around this to pretty much every large tech journalist under the sun. They don't know if that is what is going to happen nor does Kyle, that is why he stated AMD came to him and asked him to look into it. OEM's and AIB's are afraid that GPP could take steps down that road that road and more, it hasn't happened yet. As it stands right now, there is nothing but possibilities.

Also no Intel did much more than not let them OEM's or not let them use stickers. They bribed OEM's with cash to stop selling AMD products period.
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I'd love to know how you have so much inside knowledge to speak with such certainty.
 
ChadD said:
So if Dell sells a machine marketed as a gaming machine... the only option for GPU would be NV.
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And that's just not enforceable for at two reason I think. AMD can't be prevented by nVidia to say its gaming GPUs are gaming GPUs because of 1st Amendment/Free speech rights and because of anti-trust issues that prohibit a company from excluding competitors with equivalent products.

What is enforceable is exclusive brand names.
 
rgMekanic said:
I'd love to know how you have so much inside knowledge to speak with such certainty.
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Because I have been in the game industry for longer and have been working with AMD, ATi, nV, intel and numerous others for longer then Kyle has been in the hardware, tech industry ;). 23 years and counting now. This isn't taking anything away from Kyle's story, if anything is bolstering it, I do feel it can be used for unscrupulous things, but right now its not.

I've been around anti consumer advertising for over 15 years where I've worked, advertising, corporate branding, product branding. Also have worked with attorney's when asked to give information about products that the company I have worked for when there are board line issues like this. My things are digital mostly, but the same rules and regulation apply. Its never cut and dry. And none of them ever go to the press before they talk to their attorneys if there is merit. three reasons why they won't go and get an injunction and go directly to the press.

1) There is no merit
2) There is no proof which goes to 1
3) They don't have the money to hire a lawyer

Just a simple example, TV commercials or TV shows, or even movies based on true stories, why do all of these have special notations based on the message or content? Do think the people that made these things actually do the due diligence and put those on there, no they have a legal team that looks at the content and message and drafts up those one liners or comments.

Its much more prevalent now then ever before, we see it in car commercials, almost all commercial now for that matter. This wasn't regulated by the government, this was self regulated by in house attorneys.
 
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razor1 said:
Also no Intel did much more than not let them OEM's or not let them use stickers. They bribed OEM's with cash to stop selling AMD products period.
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Well those bribes where almost always in the form of co marketing funds. Its not like Intel just right up and sent bags of cash, co marketing funds are a pretty standard way to outspend your competition in many markets beyond just tech. I do agree though yes NV hasn't hit true Intel levels of illegal here quite yet by the sounds of it... or course if NV is making this play now it does make me question how long they have been forcing contracts like this onto OEMs where they could. We have all seen gaming lines that are NV only for a long time. Even my pro AMD/ATI self has just said well that seems logical NV is seen as the top end gaming product right now so companies selling NV that way is logical.... however now I'm wondering; if perhaps many of those OEMs where getting large co marketing payouts to keep those brands clear of non green product. (even if it was on a wink wink basis)
 
ChadD said:
Well those bribes where almost always in the form of co marketing funds. Its not like Intel just right up and sent bags of cash, co marketing funds are a pretty standard way to outspend your competition in many markets beyond just tech. I do agree though yes NV hasn't hit true Intel levels of illegal here quite yet by the sounds of it... or course if NV is making this play now it does make me question how long they have been forcing contracts like this onto OEMs where they could. We have all seen gaming lines that are NV only for a long time. Even my pro AMD/ATI self has just said well that seems logical NV is seen as the top end gaming product right now so companies selling NV that way is logical.... however now I'm wondering; if perhaps many of those OEMs where getting large co marketing payouts to keep those brands clear of non green product. (even if it was on a wink wink basis)
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Hmm my understanding was kickbacks were they gave cash back lol. And supply of CPU's based on how many AMD cpu's were being bought. Kickback amounts varied based on this too. But any case the similarities are more dissimilar with the information we have about the GPP.
 
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wasteomind said:
(before the family got a Packard Bell!)
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My wife bought a socket4 Packard Bell back in the 90s and it was my introduction to the world of modern computers since my last which was a VIC-20 or an Apple IIe, I feel your pain on that one. I think owning that machine made me become the geek I am today in a way though since it was such a POS pain-in-the-arse! ;)

Man, keeping up with this thread is letting me know how out of forumming shape I am! Great points by many and fascinating perspectives, my thanks.

Just wanted to extry thank whoever brought up OriginPC and the Tier 0 program, I'd forgotten about that one and it dovetails nicely with this one. Also probably foreshadows the ending; bad publicity from Kyle's story will scare the board who will yell at JHH who will declare the program never existed or didn't do what Kyle said it did and will make sure it doesn't anymore.

Also a big hug to all the friends I haven't seen in years who I THINK I see posting up in this thread. It's hard to keep track of the names over all the years, but it's giving me warm fuzzies to be getting in to a thread/story again. :D

And on a personal note, I'm personally a little hurt/offended by this whole story. AMD has been shopping this info around trying to get someone to dig in to it but they never mention it to their old attack-dog-in-waiting Digi? WTF? Right after the story broke I contacted about 4-5 people there and they all dumped a ton of info on me, and I was like, "WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU GIVE ME THIS LAST MONTH WHEN I REALLY NEEDED A DISTRACTION?!?!".

Not really relevant, but it let me know I'm not very relevant either...but I think I sort of like it that way. Feels liberating. :D
 
digitalwanderer said:
My wife bought a socket4 Packard Bell back in the 90s and it was my introduction to the world of modern computers since my last which was a VIC-20 or an Apple IIe, I feel your pain on that one. I think owning that machine made me become the geek I am today in a way though since it was such a POS pain-in-the-arse! ;)

Man, keeping up with this thread is letting me know how out of forumming shape I am! Great points by many and fascinating perspectives, my thanks.

Just wanted to extry thank whoever brought up OriginPC and the Tier 0 program, I'd forgotten about that one and it dovetails nicely with this one. Also probably foreshadows the ending; bad publicity from Kyle's story will scare the board who will yell at JHH who will declare the program never existed or didn't do what Kyle said it did and will make sure it doesn't anymore.

Also a big hug to all the friends I haven't seen in years who I THINK I see posting up in this thread. It's hard to keep track of the names over all the years, but it's giving me warm fuzzies to be getting in to a thread/story again. :D

And on a personal note, I'm personally a little hurt/offended by this whole story. AMD has been shopping this info around trying to get someone to dig in to it but they never mention it to their old attack-dog-in-waiting Digi? WTF? Right after the story broke I contacted about 4-5 people there and they all dumped a ton of info on me, and I was like, "WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU GIVE ME THIS LAST MONTH WHEN I REALLY NEEDED A DISTRACTION?!?!".

Not really relevant, but it let me know I'm not very relevant either...but I think I sort of like it that way. Feels liberating. :D
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Packard Bell used their brand to sell shit at super high prices lol, I remember this. All those magazine ads Packard Bell had....
 
razor1 said:
Hmm my understanding was kickbacks were they gave cash back lol. And supply of CPU's based on how many AMD cpu's were being bought. Kickback amounts varied based on this too. But any case the similarities are more dissimilar with the information we have about the GPP.
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Well ya I think Intel did go a bit further then just marketing funds. I would bet all of those deals started as marketing deals first. Once Intel jumped into that game the hole got deep pretty quick, really I doubt their intention was ever to be super evil slimy... but once the funds started flowing and OEMS started asking for money this way or that way I think they hatched a lot of new ideas that where a mix of legal and not even close to legal. :)

For the OEM resellers ect it is so attractive to get co-marketing money if it can be drawn up in a contract where they are providing a tangible service such as prime shelf space ect they walk away not just with "earned" marketing money they come away with major tax advantages. I mean what is better then writing off a ton of marketing money ?... using another companies marketing money and writing it off as your own income, that's what. :) lol
 
razor1 said:
Because I have been in the game industry for longer and have been working with AMD, ATi, nV, intel and numerous others for longer then Kyle has been in the hardware, tech industry ;). 23 years and counting now. This isn't taking anything away from Kyle's story, if anything is bolstering it, I do feel it can be used for unscrupulous things, but right now its not.

I've been around anti consumer advertising for over 15 years where I've worked, advertising, corporate branding, product branding. Also have worked with attorney's when asked to give information about products that the company I have worked for when there are board line issues like this. My things are digital mostly, but the same rules and regulation apply. Its never cut and dry. And none of them ever go to the press before they talk to their attorneys if there is merit. three reasons why they won't go and get an injunction and go directly to the press.

1) There is no merit
2) There is no proof which goes to 1
3) They don't have the money to hire a lawyer

Just a simple example, TV commercials or TV shows, or even movies based on true stories, why do all of these have special notations based on the message or content? Do think the people that made these things actually do the due diligence and put those on there, no they have a legal team that looks at the content and message and drafts up those one liners or comments.

Its much more prevalent now then ever before, we see it in car commercials, almost all commercial now for that matter. This wasn't regulated by the government, this was self regulated by in house attorneys.
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That is a great post till you take into account one small factor, none of this has happened yet with GPP. Of course had NVIDIA had a previous plan for 100%, that may come too light soon.

Edit: And let me add this too. I think that the motivation with GPP exposure was to stop it from moving forward, not to get embroiled in big costly legal battles, which are certainly going to come out of GPP if it continues.
 
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illli said:
This reminds me of Intel, when they bribed/forced/subsidized resellers to put their products first and foremost. And it makes one wonder, when a behemoth company with 70% of the market feels the need to keep the little guy down to such a degree...
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What makes me wondering for years now, is why the focus is almost always shifted towards a company with around 70% marketshare, while other companies with much higher marketshares are completely "ignored" !! (* for example, i was just looking at Steam Survey for the OS market and windows OS has around 98% of STEAM marketshare!!!! At the CPU area at Steam survey, Intel is near 90% marketshare !!! )
(*nevertheless, the thoughts from the..."power-users" are : "nooooo !!!, the evil NVidia will someday dominate the market!!!!!! , let's not buy their evil products and stop them !!!! " , while other companies are already dominating the market, but who among us doesn't use their products??? what kind of hypocrisy and brainwashing is that ???, i'll never understand :dead:!! )
EDIT: i just noticed Stimpy88 's comment towards me. Well the comment i just made, fits as an answer towards your comment as well .
 
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Stimpy88 said:
Don’t believe your own coolaid there partner.

What exactly do you expect to see AMD do? They were on the verge of bankruptcy a year ago, and they are not exactly rolling around in money now. But if you engage your brain for a second, you would see AMD are not raising prices of their cards, the shops are doing that for them. But let’s say that AMD are raising prices of their cards , could you blame them for trying to make some profits so they can stop firing GPU architects and driver technicians? AMD are still fighting for survival, and we NEED AMD to survive, and continue to try to fight the scum that is nVidia and Intel. The PC market without AMD would be far worse than what we are all bitching about right now, so I’m quite content to lay back and see AMD to try to pocket a little cash when they get the chance, because one day, the chances will be gone.
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This can be stated for nV too, are they raising their prices, no they are not, AIB's and end retailers are. Is there anything wrong with nV wanting to brand their products separate from AMD's no there isn't, how far are they willing to go, we haven't seen yet, if they go to far that will become a problem.

If you are content to sit and watch AMD to pocket a little cash, you should have the same opinion in regards to nV and Intel, as long as they don't take it too far as well.

Business is not about letting the smaller fish have its day to get the biggest bite out there, its about winning, getting money, and making share holders happy. As long as it doesn't go too far its all ok.

Right now nV has a demanding lead in GPU's, its their right to use that leverage and have others that sell their products with a brand that can be recognized as separate from AMD. How far will that go, it can't go to the point where AIB's aren't allowed to sell AMD products. Because that is anti competitive. It can go to the point where a brand is associated with gaming is nV, AMD is all other products, because as it stands right now, AMD is irrelevant in the eyes of nV in gaming.

Instead of GPP, all nV has to do is a marketing campaign that shows all of AMD's marketing for Polaris/Vega and compare it to reality, and put them to shame. Ask AIB partners to take part in something like that. That is down right dirty playing and going below the belt, but its 100% legal. Then there will be no question of legality or which brand is better or which brand should stick out more. At that point, AMD will be a laughing stock in anyone that wants to buy video cards outside of mining. nV will look like crap for bringing all that to light. That is transparency for ya though. Have you seen T-mobiles crappy commercials about other cell phone providers? Its going down a very dirty road, but who is stop them from doing that?
 
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fingerbob69 said:
So ROG belongs to Asus. Hence

ROG + Geforce
ROG + Radeon
However, if Asus sign up to nVidia GPP then there can only be
ROG + Geforce.

Now ....ROG belongs to nVidia!

Is it really so hard to see why there is an issue with GPP?
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I said it before. IF (* i emphasize again, IF ) GPP is beneficial to ASUS, then what's stopping them from creating a different brand-name for AMD's GPUs ? (* i already gave an example at a previous post: "SOG" a.k.a "society of gamers" for example :p.)
 
Sith'ari said:
I said it before. IF (* i emphasize again, IF ) GPP is beneficial to ASUS, then what's stopping them from creating a different brand-name for AMD's GPUs ? (* i already gave an example at a previous post: "SOG" a.k.a "society of gamers" for example :p.)
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From the wording, that would be a gaming brand, and their gaming brand must be Nvidia.
 
FearTheCow said:
From the wording, that would be a gaming brand, and their gaming brand must be Nvidia.
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This was just an example. The point of my question was : " what is stopping ASUS from creating a different brand name for AMD's GPUs , IF they evaluate their possible participation at GPP as beneficial to them".
 
I believe MSI, ASUS and Gigabyte are the only manufacturers who make both Nvidia and AMD cards. So Kyle spoke to them? I would think Nvidia would have to tread carefully not to upset these big manufacturers who make up the bulk of their sales. They are not dependent on Nvidia to exist (unlike Evga or other smaller businesses). The smaller players in the field who only make Nvidia cards should have no issue with GPP.
 
Sith'ari said:
This was just an example. The point of my question was : " what is stopping ASUS from creating a different brand name for AMD's GPUs , IF they evaluate their possible participation at GPP as beneficial to them".
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Nothing is stopping them from creating and AMD only brand.... they simply can't use the words "GAME(XXX)" as per a GPP contract with NV.

They can release an AMD performance brand sure... but it can't include the word Game / Gaming / Gamer... and I would assume that would include tag lines like "AMD HP-Gold - great for gaming" or any such variation.

I haven't read any of the actual legal wording here... but I would have to assume if NV was going to go through with this on any real scale they would 100% lock that down. So OEMS didn't simply launch parallel gaming brands.
 
amenx said:
I believe MSI, ASUS and Gigabyte are the only manufacturers who make both Nvidia and AMD cards. So Kyle spoke to them? I would think Nvidia would have to tread carefully not to upset these big manufacturers who make up the bulk of their sales. They are not dependent on Nvidia to exist (unlike Evga or other smaller businesses). The smaller players in the field who only make Nvidia cards should have no issue with GPP.
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Think you under estimate NV value in that relationship... or is it over estimate the manufacturers. :)

Asus for instance is a giant sure and their operating revenue is right around 2x that of NVs... however NV runs around 3x Asus Net. Yes NV makes 3x as much money as Asus with half the investment.

To think that Asus or the other big mfgs wouldn't tip toe and tow the line to keep NV happy is silly. Of course they would.
 
amenx said:
I believe MSI, ASUS and Gigabyte are the only manufacturers who make both Nvidia and AMD cards. So Kyle spoke to them? I would think Nvidia would have to tread carefully not to upset these big manufacturers who make up the bulk of their sales. They are not dependent on Nvidia to exist (unlike Evga or other smaller businesses). The smaller players in the field who only make Nvidia cards should have no issue with GPP.
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Hard to say how much money they are getting for graphics cards sales, it could be a big chuck of their revenue, they certainly are part of this program, if one falls, expect all of them fell.
 
This is again as I mentioned before the same mentality as Intel has whom will shamelessy push there name into ANYTHING they can put it on or in & have for decades now!! Intel did backdoor dealings with Dell in the 2000's to cut out AMD from dell products back in the day. To me this is nvidia doing the same thing accept no "kickbacks" which is what got intel into trouble the most by giving cpu's then for 25% cost i believe.

This also reminds me of back in the day of my Everquest II online days of gaming ..... just plastered with nvidia advertising .. hell im suprised they didnt find a way to make the game developer put the nvidia logo into the cloth of robes in game !! LOL BUT anyways ... the game, site & etc promoted that the game was best played on the Geforce 6800 series cards .... to which I was like o.k then & when I would see peaples stats & screen captures of blocky edged video from the game .. I would be like .. hmmmm meanwhile Im playing the game on a Radeon 850XT card same frame rates & in a few cases better ... AND everything was smooth, textured & looked realistic vs the nvidia shots.

At the end of the day ... this isnt about whom makes what better, whom pooped where & etc. It is about US the consumer 1. not getting products 2. getting them at reasonable prices & 3. A company with a true honest competitve nature to consumers whom will not lie or do backhanded things.
 
I'm pretty sure the big players are saying fuck off to this..It,'s meant for smaller players like EVGA so, they don't start making AMD GPU's as well.
 
myterrybear said:
.......................................................................................
3. A company with a true honest competitve nature to consumers whom will not lie or do backhanded things.
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Nice thinking BUT ... there isn't, and there will not ever be such a company!!
Whoever feels that he has the power , or at least somekind of a leverage that will grand them larger profits, then guess what.... they are going to exploit it !!! ;)
 
Nothing like being forced to turn over my gaming brand that I have spent millions developing and ten years of effort over to a single supplier or be punished by giving up support that puts me at a disadvantage in the market.
 
myterrybear said:
This is again as I mentioned before the same mentality as Intel has whom will shamelessy push there name into ANYTHING they can put it on or in & have for decades now!! Intel did backdoor dealings with Dell in the 2000's to cut out AMD from dell products back in the day. To me this is nvidia doing the same thing accept no "kickbacks" which is what got intel into trouble the most by giving cpu's then for 25% cost i believe.

This also reminds me of back in the day of my Everquest II online days of gaming ..... just plastered with nvidia advertising .. hell im suprised they didnt find a way to make the game developer put the nvidia logo into the cloth of robes in game !! LOL BUT anyways ... the game, site & etc promoted that the game was best played on the Geforce 6800 series cards .... to which I was like o.k then & when I would see peaples stats & screen captures of blocky edged video from the game .. I would be like .. hmmmm meanwhile Im playing the game on a Radeon 850XT card same frame rates & in a few cases better ... AND everything was smooth, textured & looked realistic vs the nvidia shots.

At the end of the day ... this isnt about whom makes what better, whom pooped where & etc. It is about US the consumer 1. not getting products 2. getting them at reasonable prices & 3. A company with a true honest competitve nature to consumers whom will not lie or do backhanded things.
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Well nV has to go that far to have gov's to get involved is such a thing.

PS business is not bound by morals, its about making money. Rules are there for these companies to be civil, but rules can be and will be and are broken. But until they are can't say otherwise.
 
Imhotep said:
You know this is not going to work. AMD is coming back full fucking force. This will bite Ngreedia in the ass if there is one to still be bitten.
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If in 2 gens they come back with a decent product, this program will die fast, GPU's are not like jeans, or cars,people in the general public don't know who nV is or their brand lol.

Just walk outside and ask the first 10 people you meet and ask them who nvidia is.....
 
Imhotep said:
It does not matter . The crypto crazies do know who is who and lately they drive the market.
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crypto guys know more about what hardware they are buying than anyone else. They don't care if its green, red what ever as long as its making money for them the brand of gaming means shit.

They aren't driving the market btw, they are only like 20% of the market.
 
Dude, I bought 140 cards since last march of which 12 are NVidia. Do not tell me who drives the market at the moment.
 
Imhotep said:
Dude, I bought 140 cards since last march of which 12 are NVidia. Do not tell me who drives the market at the moment.
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I don't mean this argumentatively, but what drives you isn't necessarily what drives the market. Also as big as the mining craze is, it is not at all stable or reliable. Who knows where it'll be in a year or two from now, or who's gear will mine best if mining is still even a thing?

I think it's dangerous as hell to base your business plan around miners right now if you're in the gaming hardware business. Future unreliability and gamer's long and nasty memories can be influencing factors.

Again, I don't mean this as an attack..just debating your point.
 
I hate to admit it, but its just mining. There are a lot of people that are attracted by AMD's open source type of deal. I didn't gamble it was just something I felt I can make a few $ doing. Mark my words. Mining is just taking off. and Ngreedia will loose in this game:)
 
Imhotep said:
Dude, I bought 140 cards since last march of which 12 are NVidia. Do not tell me who drives the market at the moment.
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not everyone is like you or other large scale miners lol. That isn't majority of the GPU market. I buy a butt load of cards too for mining, but can't think everyone is dong that :)
 
Imhotep said:
I hate to admit it, but its just mining. There are a lot of people that are attracted by AMD's open source type of deal. I didn't gamble it was just something I felt I can make a few $ doing. Mark my words. Mining is just taking off. and Ngreedia will loose in this game:)
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and why is that ? from what i hear NV's cards are extremely efficient on "ethereum" bit-coin, isn't this correct?. So, the question is which type of bit-coin is going to prevail. Who knows, since just like you said, ""Mining is just taking off""
 
Imhotep said:
I hate to admit it, but its just mining. There are a lot of people that are attracted by AMD's open source type of deal. I didn't gamble it was just something I felt I can make a few $ doing. Mark my words. Mining is just taking off. and Ngreedia will loose in this game:)
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Fair enough but this particular issue seems to be related to game branding. At this point branding means less than nothing to miners.
 
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