High-end Smartphones Killing Off High-end Smartphones

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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At some point even "just OK" is likely a lot better than you need when it comes to your smartphone. I know my last smartphone purchase, a Pixel 2 XL, was purchased specifically for the camera. There was not much to it when it came to advances that I truly cared about. This camera will likely be with me till it gets broken, we will see. SlashGear is pointing out that we are already seeing trends that it interrupts as "High-end smartphones are setting themselves up for trouble." With the top-end smartphone models pushing over $1000, its seems as though the pricing is outpacing the actual value of devices.

It might no longer be a sustainable pattern in the near future. User buying habits are changing and, ironically, manufacturers have no one to blame but themselves. In the past, users would often upgrade every two years. Fans would upgrade to a new model every year if there’s an offer for them. But not only are manufacturers making their flagship products more expensive, they’ve also filled them with hardware that doesn’t become obsolete outdated in just two years. And the annual or bi-annual releases means that the differences between models get fewer and fewer. In other words, OEMs have practically given consumers fewer reasons to upgrade frequently.
 
They can always force obsolescence by failing to update the OS / patch security issues after a certain amount of time. Hell, Samsung has been doing this.

There's no reason to upgrade past a S5 for calls, texts, and light web browsing except the fact the security updates stopped Sept 2017.
 
while there will always be those who have to have the latest/best, as you can even see here with some rigs, current phones can pretty much do everything one would want them to do.
 
Considering I use my phone for calls, text (rarely), taking pictures/video of my son when I don't have a real camera, and proving my intellectual dominance in arguments, I really only have two reasons to upgrade - I break my phone, or Google decides it's EOL and won't issue new security patches. I'm hoping to get at least another two years out of my Pixel 1.
 
dook43 said:
They can always force obsolescence by failing to update the OS / patch security issues after a certain amount of time. Hell, Samsung has been doing this.

There's no reason to upgrade past a S5 for calls, texts, and light web browsing except the fact the security updates stopped Sept 2017.
Click to expand...
If my s5 didn’t die on me (no longer getting calls), I wouldn’t have bought anything else. Now I’m looking into getting a used s7 because it’s good enough. And rom support is really good for samsungs so if Samsung dumps it, the community will keep it rolling for a couple extra years.
 
dook43 said:
They can always force obsolescence by failing to update the OS / patch security issues after a certain amount of time. Hell, Samsung has been doing this.

There's no reason to upgrade past a S5 for calls, texts, and light web browsing except the fact the security updates stopped Sept 2017.
Click to expand...
Way to contradict yourself, the s5 came out in 2014, updates stopped in 2017, 4 years of updates is not good enough?
And enough of the "no reason to upgrade" excuse, there's always a reason. New os, new camera, more cameras, faster storage speeds, more storage, bigger/brighter screens, better ipXX protection, more features, the list goes on...
 
gxp500 said:
Way to contradict yourself, the s5 came out in 2014, updates stopped in 2017, 3 years of updates is not good enough?
Click to expand...

No. Apple updates their phone OS at least 3 times. The S5 was launched with Android 5, it got Android 6 and that's it.

And enough of the "no reason to upgrade" excuse, there's always a reason. New os, new camera, more cameras, faster storage speeds, more storage, better ipXX protection, more features, the list goes on...
Click to expand...
The first reason is the most important one and it's an artificially forced one.
 
SticKx911 said:
If my s5 didn’t die on me (no longer getting calls), I wouldn’t have bought anything else. Now I’m looking into getting a used s7 because it’s good enough. And rom support is really good for samsungs so if Samsung dumps it, the community will keep it rolling for a couple extra years.
Click to expand...

Rom support? You have an unlocked bootloader?
 
I'm still using a Galaxy Note 3. The camera sucks and the screen has slight burn-in, but it still serves my purposes.
 
gxp500 said:
Way to contradict yourself, the s5 came out in 2014, updates stopped in 2017, 4 years of updates is not good enough?
And enough of the "no reason to upgrade" excuse, there's always a reason. New os, new camera, more cameras, faster storage speeds, more storage, bigger/brighter screens, better ipXX protection, more features, the list goes on...
Click to expand...

Depends upon how you use it. I'm an old fart and have absolutely no desire to peruse the web, do emails, etc on my smart phone. I've got real computers with large screen for that. I've got a Moto E (Gen 1) that works perfectly fine for me. Since I don't care to peruse the web, I've got cellular data and WIFI turned off so security updates are probably not a big issue either. Using a pay-as-you-go plan I only pay ~$70 a year for my phone usage. And yes, I could have just kept a flip phone if not for a few Apps I wanted (a good scientific/programmers calculator and a WIFI analyzer). Heh, I do turn on WIFI when I want to use the WIFI analyzer app.
 
dook43 said:
Rom support? You have an unlocked bootloader?
Click to expand...
Tmobile doesn’t require it. If you buy an unlocked model, I believe it is the same. I loaded nougat roms on mine and my roommates galaxy s5’s and mine ran great until hardware failure in December.
 
In addition to the lack of new features on high-end phones, other than better cameras I think (if you need a better camera), less expensive phones are now much better than before. These phones are now very usable, they differ very little in function (maybe you lose NFC), and are probably good enough for most users.
 
dook43 said:
They can always force obsolescence by failing to update the OS / patch security issues after a certain amount of time. Hell, Samsung has been doing this.

There's no reason to upgrade past a S5 for calls, texts, and light web browsing except the fact the security updates stopped Sept 2017.
Click to expand...

I expect that is what will force me off my S7. :(
 
kirbyrj said:
The problem with old smartphones isn't the hardware. It's the battery. And we wonder why they all did away with user replaceable batteries.
Click to expand...

Most of these can be replaced in less then an hour any any cell phone repair shop or replaced by the user with a little bit of know how. The price is pretty competitive as well, like 50-80 dollars every 2 years is quite reasonable. Going to replace the battery on my pixel xl at the end of the year, it still gets great battery life though.
 
gxp500 said:
Way to contradict yourself, the s5 came out in 2014, updates stopped in 2017, 4 years of updates is not good enough?
And enough of the "no reason to upgrade" excuse, there's always a reason. New os, new camera, more cameras, faster storage speeds, more storage, bigger/brighter screens, better ipXX protection, more features, the list goes on...
Click to expand...

In fairness, 2017-2014 = 3, not 4.

As for reasons to upgrade: Reasons are subjective. What you have named are features. Each of us decides for ourselves whether a feature is sufficient reason to upgrade.
 
Using an S5 from T-Mobile with TWRP and Lineage OS 14. Still gets weekly updates. Probably the best phone Samsung ever made but I don't see myself ever buying one again unless the bootloader is unlocked. Some water resistance, wireless recharging back, removable battery, and IR transmitter. Shame Google won't put an SD card slot in.
 
I've decided that I am just going to buy cheap phones off of Amazon from now on. I have a Galaxy S7 currently and it does what I need it to do. The improved camera doesn't sell me on a phone. I usualy use them to take pictures of serial numbers of hard to reach devices for work. I have a real camera when I want to take a picture at holidays and other events.
 
I'm liking what I'm seeing with the S9 though. It's not priced higher than the S8, maybe even lower, and Samsung and some carriers are providing decent trade-in deals. I'm trading in an S7-E for $360 and after tax the S9+ will cost me $520. I call that alright in the current landscape.
 
With the top-end smartphone models pushing over $1000, its seems as though the pricing is outpacing the actual value of devices.
Click to expand...

Or is the price merely catching up with the value of the device?

Remember, in 10 years we've taken what would've been considered a pretty damn good PC and shrunk it down into something that fit in a pocket. Smartphones are as big an advancement in technology as PCs were when they originally debuted. But unlike PCs which started high and eventually came down in price, smartphones seem to have started low and are graduating higher as time goes on.
 
Victims of their own success, similar to what's happened to the PC market over the last 10 years. Cameras have been "good enough" for several years, screens have been fantastic for a while, CPU and RAM have been sufficient for quite a while, and the OS has worked fine for the vast majority of people. When your latest flagship's most notable features is face-mapped emoji, you might just be hitting a wall.

SticKx911 said:
Tmobile doesn’t require it. If you buy an unlocked model, I believe it is the same. I loaded nougat roms on mine and my roommates galaxy s5’s and mine ran great until hardware failure in December.
Click to expand...
I think he was referring to ROM support for the S7, which is impossible at this point AFAIK because the S7's bootloader is locked and nobody is giving up the keys.
 
U-238 said:
Or is the price merely catching up with the value of the device?

Remember, in 10 years we've taken what would've been considered a pretty damn good PC and shrunk it down into something that fit in a pocket. Smartphones are as big an advancement in technology as PCs were when they originally debuted. But unlike PCs which started high and eventually came down in price, smartphones seem to have started low and are graduating higher as time goes on.
Click to expand...
They used to be subsidized by the carrier as well, now they realize we can charge full price and either it is paid upfront or over installments so they have a constant revenue stream. I personally have been debating on if i want a new phone but the prices are just so damn high it is keeping me from wanting to upgrade.
 
I think this is actually a benefit to consumers. As the major players race to make the greatest and best. (Samsung/Google/Apple) The rest of them can pick up the previous generation slap in a lower res but insane quality display, have a stellar product that in may cases out performs the big names for what they want to focus on just doesn't have the same breadth of capability as they do. A bit of research and people like my son can get a oneplus 5 for about 500 bucks and have a top of the line equivelent device. As long as buyers keep buying phones iteravely this will win out for everyone.

Like video cards when we had a 6 month upgrade cycle. Once we have one come to market and clearly dominate... then they can slow down iteration and produce truly generational products while waiting on a competitor to challenge what they currently have in market.
 
I'm not planning on paying $1000+ for a phone. Really, how about getting me a device for closer to $400-500 that I know will last at least 3 years?
I don't need a fast GPU or for that, the fastest CPU. I need to be able to: 1. Make/receive calls 2. Send/receive test 3. Camera 4. Weather 5. A decent mobile browser.
Anything else? Ok, but not essential. I also would like a battery that lasts 2 days between charges. K. Thx.
 
Sikkyu said:
Most of these can be replaced in less then an hour any any cell phone repair shop or replaced by the user with a little bit of know how. The price is pretty competitive as well, like 50-80 dollars every 2 years is quite reasonable. Going to replace the battery on my pixel xl at the end of the year, it still gets great battery life though.
Click to expand...

But remember how easy it was to just pop off the cover and pop in a new battery? Plus, by replacing the battery you (usually) lose the water resistance.
 
dook43 said:
They can always force obsolescence by failing to update the OS / patch security issues after a certain amount of time. Hell, Samsung has been doing this.

There's no reason to upgrade past a S5 for calls, texts, and light web browsing except the fact the security updates stopped Sept 2017.
Click to expand...


Not entirely true as a rule, even if this particular phone supports your premise. New cell radio networks will drive new phone sales no matter what. Now there wouldn't be as rapid of an upgrade schedule but as soon as new radio cell technology allows any significant increase in speed or range/reception, then there is a new reason for a new phone and a reason to let go of an old phone.

I'm not saying that forced obsolescence isn't a thing, it most surely is. I'm saying that newer technology remains a perfectly viable driver for quite sometime still.
 
Mohonri said:
Victims of their own success, similar to what's happened to the PC market over the last 10 years. Cameras have been "good enough" for several years, screens have been fantastic for a while, CPU and RAM have been sufficient for quite a while, and the OS has worked fine for the vast majority of people. When your latest flagship's most notable features is face-mapped emoji, you might just be hitting a wall.


I think he was referring to ROM support for the S7, which is impossible at this point AFAIK because the S7's bootloader is locked and nobody is giving up the keys.
Click to expand...
Ohhh. That sucks. Didn’t know that. :(
 
The people that buy these have more money than brains. What are these $1000 phones giving you that a $200 phone won't? A phone is not going to have more value than a computer -- it's only going to have a higher price. Most of the phones aren't even good as "phones" now because their design doesn't facilitate great voice communication. They're trying to be tiny computers but lack a great input device and have too small of an output device and it doesn't help matters that their input and output device are the same screen. What are people doing with these devices that would warrant a $1000 price tag? I'd prefer just to have a very basic phone but my workplace has forced an I-phone on me. The only time it has any value for me is when I'm at the airport or need an Uber which any Android phone could do. I think our society has become extremely sick when the majority of the people think they have to be online with their cell phone 100% of the time and are actually willing to spend $1000 for one plus a monthly service bill. Maybe they should read George Orwell's 1984 again...

U-238 said:
Or is the price merely catching up with the value of the device?

Remember, in 10 years we've taken what would've been considered a pretty damn good PC and shrunk it down into something that fit in a pocket. Smartphones are as big an advancement in technology as PCs were when they originally debuted. But unlike PCs which started high and eventually came down in price, smartphones seem to have started low and are graduating higher as time goes on.
Click to expand...
 
Young punks, pah! I'm still using my compaq luggable with a portable genny. Geez.

Ok, srsly, I have a Note 3 bought used in early 2017 and it doesn't have a SIM card. Its a mini tablet+mp3 player+video player+ereader.
 
gxp500 said:
Way to contradict yourself, the s5 came out in 2014, updates stopped in 2017, 4 years of updates is not good enough?
And enough of the "no reason to upgrade" excuse, there's always a reason. New os, new camera, more cameras, faster storage speeds, more storage, bigger/brighter screens, better ipXX protection, more features, the list goes on...
Click to expand...
If that was the case I should be upgrading my computer every year. When smartphones first broke out in the 90s we were seeing a lot of improvements from year to year, around the time of S2-S4 we were seeing a lot of improvements in multi-core, camera and memory. More recently memory, storage and camera are seeing little to no improvement. Think about how long Samsung stayed with 16GB as standard and later 32GB. Now that 64GB is finally becoming standard I would say that it is more than enough for most users for the next several years. CPU and GPU improvements are incramental. I see no reason to upgrade from my S7 unless their is a breakthrough in battery technology.

Before smartphones are common place we had a lot of different and fun phones, flip phones and such and upgrading was often free with a new contract.
 
mlcarson said:
The people that buy these have more money than brains. What are these $1000 phones giving you that a $200 phone won't? A phone is not going to have more value than a computer -- it's only going to have a higher price. Most of the phones aren't even good as "phones" now because their design doesn't facilitate great voice communication. They're trying to be tiny computers but lack a great input device and have too small of an output device and it doesn't help matters that their input and output device are the same screen. What are people doing with these devices that would warrant a $1000 price tag? I'd prefer just to have a very basic phone but my workplace has forced an I-phone on me. The only time it has any value for me is when I'm at the airport or need an Uber which any Android phone could do. I think our society has become extremely sick when the majority of the people think they have to be online with their cell phone 100% of the time and are actually willing to spend $1000 for one plus a monthly service bill. Maybe they should read George Orwell's 1984 again...
Click to expand...

You don't need it, ergo it's stupid, gotcha.

What does any of this have to do with 1984?! Do you think a $150 phone DOESN'T track you?! Do you not know how much a phone tracks you without you being actively browsing web sites or using apps? You may want to look up how you can be tracked via just cell tower information. Not to speak of Google probably tracking your location 24/7, unless you specifically disable that, where again, the device price point has nothing to do with it.

These phones are mostly expensive toys for most people. Why is that bad, or stupid? It's stupid if you pay way more than you can realistically afford, but that's called freedom of choice and personal responsibility.
If I make an income that is high enough that I can dismiss a $100-$120 charge per month for a phone plus plan, why am I stupid?
 
I've been debating getting a blackberry priv just to have a slider phone again with an actual mini keypad for texting. $200 for a 2+ year old model, bleh. Removable batteries? Those are evil apparently. I have an 8 year old samsung that was mostly junk when I bought it new that had decent battery life if not web surfing or gaming and I can swap out the batteries on it in 30 seconds or less.

At least there are some deals for the cheapo iphone these days at under $200.
 
dook43 said:
They can always force obsolescence by failing to update the OS / patch security issues after a certain amount of time. Hell, Samsung has been doing this.

There's no reason to upgrade past a S5 for calls, texts, and light web browsing except the fact the security updates stopped Sept 2017.
Click to expand...
The only reason I upgraded from an S3 last year was because the screen broke and cyanogenmod stopped making builds for it. Switched to an Xperia XA and probably won't upgrade for another year or two.
 
U-238 said:
Or is the price merely catching up with the value of the device?
Click to expand...

I just got a Moto G5S Plus a week or two ago, on sale, for $219. It does nearly everything my last one, an LG G5, did, except one or two games are a little laggy.

I was thinking of a Samsung S9 or Pixel 2 XL, or something, but there's nothing those ~$1000 phone do that's enough better than my $220 phone to justify paying 5 times as much.

And there's still a lot of stuff it can't do anywhere near as well as my computer. I wouldn't want to try to do software development on it, for example, without an external keyboard, mouse, and monitor, and even then I bet Eclipse would be horribly slow (pause for "even more so than on a desktop" jokes).
 
Ranulfo said:
I've been debating getting a blackberry priv just to have a slider phone again with an actual mini keypad for texting.
Click to expand...

I liked having a physical keyboard back when I had a Samsung Blackjack II but once Google swiped the idea of swyping from swype, I stopped caring about physical keyboards--I'd rather have more screen. YMMV as always.
 
gxp500 said:
Way to contradict yourself, the s5 came out in 2014, updates stopped in 2017, 4 years of updates is not good enough?
And enough of the "no reason to upgrade" excuse, there's always a reason. New os, new camera, more cameras, faster storage speeds, more storage, bigger/brighter screens, better ipXX protection, more features, the list goes on...
Click to expand...

1) New os - My Galaxy Nexus runs the latest version of Android and I typically have it far faster than even most of the newest phones because I don't have to wait on the OEM or Cell provider to push an update because I have total control of my phone.

2) Without a bunch of strap on shit, there is no phone on the market that takes a meaningful enough of a better picture than my phone that I give a crap. The best cell camera on the market still looks like shit compared to my Nikon, so If quality matters I use a real camera.

3) More camera's - ..Lol? I'm not a narcissist with a selfie stick on me 24/7.

4) Faster storage speeds - again..lol? I can't say this has even blipped on my radar a single time and I'm actually pushing far bigger files on to my phone regularly when I upgrade the OS. This isn't something the average person would ever notice.

5) more storage - ok fair point, but an SD slot eliminates that issue.

6) Bigger screens - Do you want a phone? or do you want a tablet? I want a phone...I don't need a battery sucking giant screen with a retarded resolution that serves no actual visual purpose. Fuck man, I'm as blind as they come and I still don't need a phablet for a phone.

7) better ipXX - Non point..sealed devices aren't demonstrably better. They are just anti consumer designs.

8) more features - ..we hit the point of rediculous feature creep years ago. Frankly at this point cell phones are starting to feel like a virtual ship in star citizen. There literally hasn't been a single feature that has come out since my phone that is anything more than "oo shiny".

edit: had to fix point 7, I had a brief mental moment where I saw ip and assumed security instead of it registering that it was about dust intrusion.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
1) New os - My Galaxy Nexus runs the latest version of Android and I typically have it far faster than even most of the newest phones because I don't have to wait on the OEM or Cell provider to push an update because I have total control of my phone.

2) Without a bunch of strap on shit, there is no phone on the market that takes a meaningful enough of a better picture than my phone that I give a crap. The best cell camera on the market still looks like shit compared to my Nikon, so If quality matters I use a real camera.

3) More camera's - ..Lol? I'm not a narcissist with a selfie stick on me 24/7.

4) Faster storage speeds - again..lol? I can't say this has even blipped on my radar a single time and I'm actually pushing far bigger files on to my phone regularly when I upgrade the OS. This isn't something the average person would ever notice.

5) more storage - ok fair point, but an SD slot eliminates that issue.

6) Bigger screens - Do you want a phone? or do you want a tablet? I want a phone...I don't need a battery sucking giant screen with a retarded resolution that serves no actual visual purpose. Fuck man, I'm as blind as they come and I still don't need a phablet for a phone.

7) better ipXX - Non point..sealed devices aren't demonstrably better. They are just anti consumer designs.

8) more features - ..we hit the point of rediculous feature creep years ago. Frankly at this point cell phones are starting to feel like a virtual ship in star citizen. There literally hasn't been a single feature that has come out since my phone that is anything more than "oo shiny".

edit: had to fix point 7, I had a brief mental moment where I saw ip and assumed security instead of it registering that it was about dust intrusion.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this. I've still got an old Note 4 that my kid likes to play with and it actually still works pretty well. It's not even that much slower than my current phone (Motorola Z Force).

With manufacturers removing shit we want like 3.5mm jacks, SD cards, removable batteries and so on while jacking the price up $100+ every year, there really isn't that much of a reason to upgrade. I was kinda wanting to get the new Note 8 but they've forced that stupid wrap around screen and as a result you can't get a decent screen protector and it's far too vulnerable. Yeah it looks cool but no thanks.

I guess phones have just hit their peak in terms of performance. Used to be, after about a year, phones were so slow that you had to upgrade. But now, 3 and even some 5 year old phones can still surf the internet and handle most tasks just fine.
 
mlcarson said:
The people that buy these have more money than brains. What are these $1000 phones giving you that a $200 phone won't? A phone is not going to have more value than a computer -- it's only going to have a higher price. Most of the phones aren't even good as "phones" now because their design doesn't facilitate great voice communication. They're trying to be tiny computers but lack a great input device and have too small of an output device and it doesn't help matters that their input and output device are the same screen. What are people doing with these devices that would warrant a $1000 price tag? I'd prefer just to have a very basic phone but my workplace has forced an I-phone on me. The only time it has any value for me is when I'm at the airport or need an Uber which any Android phone could do. I think our society has become extremely sick when the majority of the people think they have to be online with their cell phone 100% of the time and are actually willing to spend $1000 for one plus a monthly service bill. Maybe they should read George Orwell's 1984 again...
Click to expand...

There's this guy in class and his college professor says he doesn't understand why young people are so hung up with sex. He says sex is no more satisfying than a good shit.

So the student stands up and says to the professor, "I mean no disrespect sir, but either I don't know how to shit, or you don't know how to fuck".

I have replied to job recruiters who called me and was able to send my most recent resume in on the spot with my phone.

I have had to submit documents online and used my phone to photograph them instead of going home to use a scanner.

I have performed remote management tasks on computer networks from my phone.

Like the matrix, I didn't know how to replace a pump in my washing machine, a Youtube video did the trick.

And the new phones these days are getting pretty good at voice control if you put some effort into training it.

So which is it, don't know how to shit, or don't know how to fuck?

Look man, few people need such things. But some people can make very good use of them if there is enough practical use for the features available.

You may not, but why would you decide that just because you don't, that no one does?
 
lcpiper said:
There's this guy in class and his college professor says he doesn't understand why young people are so hung up with sex. He says sex is no more satisfying than a good shit.

So the student stands up and says to the professor, "I mean no disrespect sir, but either I don't know how to shit, or you don't know how to fuck".

I have replied to job recruiters who called me and was able to send my most recent resume in on the spot with my phone.

I have had to submit documents online and used my phone to photograph them instead of going home to use a scanner.

I have performed remote management tasks on computer networks from my phone.

Like the matrix, I didn't know how to replace a pump in my washing machine, a Youtube video did the trick.

And the new phones these days are getting pretty good at voice control if you put some effort into training it.

So which is it, don't know how to shit, or don't know how to fuck?

Look man, few people need such things. But some people can make very good use of them if there is enough practical use for the features available.

You may not, but why would you decide that just because you don't, that no one does?
Click to expand...

I think the point is that smart phones have been able to easily do all of those tasks for many years now. What do the newest ones bring other than forced obsolescence through bad design? They certainly don't bring any new features that offer any actual merit.
 
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