Crypto and gpu price going back

Jalseng said:
I've seen miners posting up full rigs for sale on my local Craigslist. Guess with Volta comming in March everyone selling
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Mining rigs have been on CL as long as there have been mining rigs. Only clueless hobbyminers that haven't been in the game long would sell their rig "to get ready for Volta" - like that's going to be any time soon or have sub-stratospheric pricing/availability.

Ampere / Consumer Volta will prob be announced end March at GDC/GTC but not ship until June/July. Won't be able to get your hands on one for long after that regardless, even if retailers limit orders -- flippers with sophisticated bot scripts won't even flinch.

Pascal will not get drastically cheaper when Ampere ships, because global mining power will keep it in place as long as it outperforms its electrical cost. In other words larger operations won't switch out Pascal to add Ampere; they'll simply add Ampere.

I think the GPU shortage is actually going to get worse heading into summer; people crying now have no idea what's ahead.
 
Hakaba said:
I hope they don’t, mining aside why should I not be allowed to upgrade say our 3 gaming PCs?
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You’d have to purchase from multiple places. What makes video cards go OOS in seconds is huge orders of 10 or more cards or multiple accounts ordering the max supply.

People make tons of accounts but it’s harder to have multiple cards and very hard to have multiple addresses much less both.

It’s still possible but much more annoying for bulk buyers.
 
odditory said:
Mining rigs have been on CL as long as there have been mining rigs. Only clueless hobbyminers that haven't been in the game long would sell their rig "to get ready for Volta" - like that's going to be any time soon or have sub-stratospheric pricing/availability.

Ampere / Consumer Volta will prob be announced end March at GDC/GTC but not ship until June/July. Won't be able to get your hands on one for long after that regardless, even if retailers limit orders -- flippers with sophisticated bot scripts won't even flinch.

Pascal will not get drastically cheaper when Ampere ships, because global mining power will keep it in place as long as it outperforms its electrical cost. In other words larger operations won't switch out Pascal to add Ampere; they'll simply add Ampere.

I think the GPU shortage is actually going to get worse heading into summer; people crying now have no idea what's ahead.
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I second this.
I know that I won't replace my old Pascal cards when I get next gen cards for mining. I'm just going to add new cards to my mining pool.
It will be glorious.
 
Nebell said:
I second this.
I know that I won't replace my old Pascal cards when I get next gen cards for mining. I'm just going to add new cards to my mining pool.
It will be glorious.
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Third. I'm excited by the changes with mainstream hardware. Common 94%+ psu's, less junk with 900w stickers. There's a lot to be excited for in the rendering world and I think people who are upset should go play with their xbox.
 
I only built a mining rig two days ago. I will probably build another one if maths works out. If I can snatch some cheap 1080 tis for 500 a pop I will build another rig.
 
KickAssCop said:
I only built a mining rig two days ago. I will probably build another one if maths works out. If I can snatch some cheap 1080 tis for 500 a pop I will build another rig.
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Wait until April when new Nvidia launches. Can probably get them for $500 then.
 
Jalseng said:
I've seen miners posting up full rigs for sale on my local Craigslist. Guess with Volta comming in March everyone selling
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In the mining world proper upgrading means buying the new products first while simultaneously replacing the old ones, then sell the old ones. You can't fire all of your staff and have no workers just because slightly better staff will be available a few months later.
 
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bigbluefe said:
Crypto can suck a fat dick. So stupid. Get the fuck away from my video cards, you leeches.
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If I was nvidia I would label the unit "Special Hyper Crypto Edition" and mark it up considerably, but make absolutely no difference to the actual card itself. Maybe, have the geforce experience have bitcoin logo or something to make it appear more legit.
 
hedron said:
If I was nvidia I would label the unit "Special Hyper Crypto Edition" and mark it up considerably, but make absolutely no difference to the actual card itself. Maybe, have the geforce experience have bitcoin logo or something to make it appear more legit.
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miners are a bit smarter than buying useless hardware ;) Its all about ROI and getting the most coin in the shortest amount of time ;)
 
razor1 said:
miners are a bit smarter than buying useless hardware ;) Its all about ROI and getting the most coin in the shortest amount of time ;)
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So, you're surfing newegg looking for a new card, one says, "super hyper crypto edition" and the other says, "for gamers only." I think you'd pick the former. I really do, because there would be a part of your mind nagging you that there's something special about that, "super hyper crypto edition."
 
hedron said:
So, you're surfing newegg looking for a new card, one says, "super hyper crypto edition" and the other says, "for gamers only." I think you'd pick the former. I really do, because there would be a part of your mind nagging you that there's something special about that, "super hyper crypto edition."
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I doubt it. People read reviews. The only thing that matters to these people is hashrates and power use. If it's $100 more money and only gets a minimal bump in hashrates, they will save the money.
 
hedron said:
So, you're surfing newegg looking for a new card, one says, "super hyper crypto edition" and the other says, "for gamers only." I think you'd pick the former. I really do, because there would be a part of your mind nagging you that there's something special about that, "super hyper crypto edition."
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I will want to see the test of it first lol, I don't put money down on something that won't give me a proper ROI.
 
Well, then how come they are willing to buy video cards at 2x plus the MSRP? I haven't perused crypto boards, but it seems to me gamers are the ones complaining about the price tag.
 
hedron said:
Well, then how come they are willing to buy video cards at 2x plus the MSRP? I haven't perused crypto boards, but it seems to me gamers are the ones complaining about the price tag.
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If they are buying it for crypto at those prices, they are idiots lol, explained this earlier, there is a certain amount of time a miner must make their ROI otherwise its a losing proposition.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Uhuh.. Asus GTX 1080ti STRIX ROG OC is $1949 CAD, I bought one for $1223 a few weeks ago :p
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You pretty much paid oh 40% more than you should have, that is a 40% increase in time of ROI. @ 5 bucks a card per day, that is 6 months for the ROI, that is a decent investment as long as the next gen don't increase difficulty by 2 fold, if that happens that is a 8 to 9 month investment, not worth it at that point.

5 to 6 bucks per day is where the 1080ti is at right now. So just hope that next gen nV products are slow to come out is all I can say.
 
razor1 said:
If they are buying it for crypto at those prices, they are idiots lol, explained this earlier, there is a certain amount of time a miner must make their ROI otherwise its a losing proposition.
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I think there's also a difference between you as an individual versus the entire group who's trying to get in on the crypto mining craze. I assume you've been mining for a while, but GPU prices have only gone up recently. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm hardly the last word on these things, this is just my impression. So, someone like you is going to make better decisions than the lot of people reading the headlines, then reading some 1/2/3 tutorial on how to mine, then rushing over to newegg to buy the latest greatest GPU. That's mainly what I was referring to, and, this is just an educated guess, it's these people that are driving up GPU prices.
 
hedron said:
I think there's also a difference between you as an individual versus the entire group who's trying to get in on the crypto mining craze. I assume you've been mining for a while, but GPU prices have only gone up recently. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm hardly the last word on these things, this is just my impression. So, someone like you is going to make better decisions than the lot of people reading the headlines, then reading some 1/2/3 tutorial on how to mine, then rushing over to newegg to buy the latest greatest GPU. That's mainly what I was referring to, and, this is just an educated guess, it's these people that are driving up GPU prices.
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Yes I have been mining for quite some time now, but I also noticed other people during the litecoin and bitcoin GPU mining crazes, how they messed up and kept buying hardware, at the end of it all, they made their money back for their hardware, the smart guys held on to the coins and paid off their hardware by their day jobs, the not so smart guys paid off their hardware purchases by selling their coins. At the end the second group of people made no money lol.
 
hedron said:
Don't forget the cost of electricity. A computer running 24/7 at 100% can cost a pretty penny.
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Costs me ~$1 a day for a ryzen and 1080ti.

I also game, but having my computer pay for itself while I'm working and sleeping is pretty sweet.
 
mkst said:
Cards priced even over MSRP are still selling out in minutes. Where are you seeing the prices trending downwards?
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I looked at pcpartpicker 18 month trends for NVidia GPUs and RAM yesterday. The former do show a slight dip in recent weeks, as if we are past the peak. Time will tell, obviously.

Edit: actually, checking them again, it's more like we're on the other side of the peak of the tall mountain that's sitting on top of a wide plateau that started around the middle of June of 2017; the mountain started in January. Still a long way to go if the whole thing is symmetrical (and I have no clue if it will be, and common sense says it won't).

The trend is most apparent in 1060 and 1070 prices, and absent in others.
 
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Well things will start to come into normalization....just will take time. nVidia/AMD are concerned about a bubble of demand, *IF* that bubble pops second hand cards will flood the market cannibalizing future sales. It's a safer bet to just ride out current supply and sell at the higher price until some of the uncertainty goes away
 
I agree with Morlock. Vegas have remained in stock though way over priced. I got a 1080ti saturday for $849 and one today for $849 and ones have remained in stock at $899 which was unheard of last 3+ weeks or so.
 
Vega must be the worst launch in GPU history. Under performing, over priced, lack of availability. It's as if it doesn't even exist.
 
razor1 said:
You pretty much paid oh 40% more than you should have, that is a 40% increase in time of ROI. @ 5 bucks a card per day, that is 6 months for the ROI, that is a decent investment as long as the next gen don't increase difficulty by 2 fold, if that happens that is a 8 to 9 month investment, not worth it at that point.

5 to 6 bucks per day is where the 1080ti is at right now. So just hope that next gen nV products are slow to come out is all I can say.
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for the first couple of weeks, it was closer to 8-9 per day and remember, that is CAD :p
 
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ah last month right? yeah so you are pretty safe then, should be able to pay it off in less than 6 months then.
 
razor1 said:
Yes I have been mining for quite some time now, but I also noticed other people during the litecoin and bitcoin GPU mining crazes, how they messed up and kept buying hardware, at the end of it all, they made their money back for their hardware, the smart guys held on to the coins and paid off their hardware by their day jobs, the not so smart guys paid off their hardware purchases by selling their coins. At the end the second group of people made no money lol.
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Money out is money out. Whether funded by coin production or a day job...not sure that it matters.
 
razor1 said:
ah last month right? yeah so you are pretty safe then, should be able to pay it off in less than 6 months then.
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Joust said:
Money out is money out. Whether funded by coin production or a day job...not sure that it matters.
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It matters when litecoin was at $3 if you had kept your 500 litecoins, that would have resulted in 150,000 vs $1500 :p etc

EG: I sold over 5,000 LTC to pay off the KNC titan, at $2-$4 each. If I had held on to them, it would have been 1,500,000 :(
 
Joust said:
Money out is money out. Whether funded by coin production or a day job...not sure that it matters.
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True it is, that's why ROI is so important, otherwise ya need to wait for coins to mature to make your money, end of the day 100% increase in coins may happen once a year, maybe not, its a gamble.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
It matters when litecoin was at $3 if you had kept your 500 litecoins, that would have resulted in 150,000 vs $1500 :p etc

EG: I sold over 5,000 LTC to pay off the KNC titan, at $2-$4 each. If I had held on to them, it would have been 1,500,000 :(
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yeah if coins mature and ya have em great, then its a lot of profit but if we see the kinda of people buying graphics card at twice the MSRP, I doubt they are even looking at that. They are looking at per day profits, which sorry its never steady. Mining isn't about day to day profits, its about getting as many coins as possible and letting them go up in price while being able to pay off the hardware. So buying cards at crazy prices, is not a smart thing to do if ya have to pay that money back, we aren't talking about 500 bucks here, 1070 for a grand that is crazy, if its a full mining rig, 6k, that's a lot of money.
 
my thought is a 6 gpu right for 5k thats what I aim at.

have some 1070 rigs and 1080 rigs but always keep your set pricepoint or what for price adjustment
 
SickBeast said:
No, maybe $1/day. $2.75/day profit after electricity cost is nothing considering the fact that I'm putting so much strain on my expensive hardware. Remember these are $800USD cards. Once the summer hits I can pretty much double the electricity cost because I will have to juice up my AC to compensate for all the heat output. If these values hold I will probably bail on mining by the summer.
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But mining with a single 1080 TI is really not all that serious anyways. Some more serious miners are using 6+ 1080 TIs in dedicated mining rigs that will pay for themselves in around 6 months time at current coin prices (roughly).
 
razor1 said:
yeah if coins mature and ya have em great, then its a lot of profit but if we see the kinda of people buying graphics card at twice the MSRP, I doubt they are even looking at that. They are looking at per day profits, which sorry its never steady. Mining isn't about day to day profits, its about getting as many coins as possible and letting them go up in price while being able to pay off the hardware. So buying cards at crazy prices, is not a smart thing to do if ya have to pay that money back, we aren't talking about 500 bucks here, 1070 for a grand that is crazy, if its a full mining rig, 6k, that's a lot of money.
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exactly, right now I'm hoping btc stays low for a while longer, because I'm getting more btc per day now, than I was at $9/day

if it goes back up to 20k, that's double :D
 
Verge said:
Why would they?


If you can sell a widget for 1,000 dollars to persons X, why sell it for 500 to person Y?
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person y is going to keep buying widgets from me for the next 30 years, person x is going to dump his widgets as soon as a cheaper, more efficient cog comes along and I've lost a customer for life.

This is why Nvidia hasn't abandoned the gaming market. Yeah they would make a fuck ton more money if they just focused on filling crypto mining orders, but they can't bail out on that sweet titty they suckled on as an infant company till today.

IWBB3TI.jpg
yea that's right.
 
razor1 said:
that is a disturbing pic lol
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Everyone once and awhile I get a wind of ms.paint creativity and bang something out. I couldn't figure out how to crop the dudes head by itself with a transparent background so I had to repaint the square around his head that copied over in white.
 
oldmanbal said:
person y is going to keep buying widgets from me for the next 30 years, person x is going to dump his widgets as soon as a cheaper, more efficient cog comes along and I've lost a customer for life.

This is why Nvidia hasn't abandoned the gaming market. Yeah they would make a fuck ton more money if they just focused on filling crypto mining orders, but they can't bail out on that sweet titty they suckled on as an infant company till today.

IWBB3TI.jpg
yea that's right.
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By they I'm referring to other people selling used equipment.
 
razor1 said:
Don't even know what this thread was created, mining is a secondary reason for this graphics card shortage
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You are starting to sound like someone who is so involved in mining that you are taking - personally - that mining is a decent factor in the shortages of cards. Nobody is blaming anyone personally. Its just that when graphics cards were used for only for gaming and sold singly, production kept up with demand. When a miner want's 5/10/20 cards at a time, the previously expected sell through wasn't enough.

If 5% or so of people have ciliac disease and need gluten free foods but I convince folks that its also a great weight loss program to use, more gluten free foods will be sold and production will have to ramp up.

Easy to ramp up gluten free foods by just running overtime. Vid cards are dependent on other variables that cause a shortage that takes more time to placate the buying needs. Easy to do when cards are leaving one per customer. Harder to do when the cards themselves become a commodity because of "the secondary reason".

No blame, but mining is a huge factor in why there are shortages.
 
Khahhblaab said:
You are starting to sound like someone who is so involved in mining that you are taking - personally - that mining is a decent factor in the shortages of cards. Nobody is blaming anyone personally. Its just that when graphics cards were used for only for gaming and sold singly, production kept up with demand. When a miner want's 5/10/20 cards at a time, the previously expected sell through wasn't enough.

If 5% or so of people have ciliac disease and need gluten free foods but I convince folks that its also a great weight loss program to use, more gluten free foods will be sold and production will have to ramp up.

Easy to ramp up gluten free foods by just running overtime. Vid cards are dependent on other variables that cause a shortage that takes more time to placate the buying needs. Easy to do when cards are leaving one per customer. Harder to do when the cards themselves become a commodity because of "the secondary reason".

No blame, but mining is a huge factor in why there are shortages.
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very small factor, as explained in the rest of this tread, its easy to find out how many cards are being used in mining right now (12 to 14 million cards of equal performance of a gtx 1070 or rx480 or 580). Miners buying cards right now, are not smart miners, and most miners are very well aware of their ROI. They don't just buy cards because they are available and buying cards when coin prices or mining profits increase is the WORST TIME to buy, because it doesn't last. A month ago great make 8 to 10 bucks or 15 bucks a card per day, depending on the card, now, well they are back down to 4, 5, 6? The uplift was there for 2 weeks or so. After that back to 6 months ago profits. Stupid for miners to buy cards at this time. The miners that are buying cards when day to day profits are there, just aren't in it for making money, they will end up losing money, because their hardware cost won't be covered quick enough.
 
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Digital Viper-X- said:
It matters when litecoin was at $3 if you had kept your 500 litecoins, that would have resulted in 150,000 vs $1500 :p etc

EG: I sold over 5,000 LTC to pay off the KNC titan, at $2-$4 each. If I had held on to them, it would have been 1,500,000 :(
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There's kind of 2 things going on though, right? One revenue stream is production rate at spot, and the other is gains on the derivative. I admit that the production is not entirely divorced from the derivative, but the derivative can be totally divorced from production.

If you're playing the derivative game, with crypto one might say the speculation game, you're probably better off buying the coins than mining them.
 
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