Steam Hardware Survey updated with GPUs

noko said:
Your overly critical which discredits what you are saying. Intel meltdown and other BS prone hardware is not our friends either. Biggest problem with Vega is there is not enough of them to go around at a reasonable price or to satisfy the market. Games fine, can do Crypto and other Compute stuff rather well depending upon what it is - Same as Nvidia. Still the numbers are what they are meaning great opportunity for AMD to expand.
Click to expand...

Inefficient space heaters went out of trend several years ago not to mention the ever increasing mobile segment that Vega in reality isn't part of. As the trend continues, Nvidia and Intel grows, AMD shrinks. Opportunity to expand? Love the forever optimism! Lets be honest here, RTG died long ago and is just on a downhill fall of the cliff. There is nothing for 2018 and just another GCN in 2019 while they keep failing forever behind the curve with more generations. If you want a future alternative in the discrete GPU space you have to look towards Intel.
 
Shintai said:
Inefficient space heaters went out of trend several years ago not to mention the ever increasing mobile segment that Vega in reality isn't part of. As the trend continues, Nvidia and Intel grows, AMD shrinks. Opportunity to expand? Love the forever optimism! Lets be honest here, RTG died long ago and is just on a downhill fall of the cliff. There is nothing for 2018 and just another GCN in 2019 while they keep failing forever behind the curve with more generations. If you want a future alternative in the discrete GPU space you have to look towards Intel.
Click to expand...

Yes we cant wait for Larrabe 2 a product that will never see the light of day on the consumer market.
 
Gideon said:
Yes we cant wait for Larrabe 2 a product that will never see the light of day on the consumer market.
Click to expand...


Larrabee, Intel Phi are not graphics products, never have been never will be. Now apples to apples when it comes to benchmarks with DL and HPC larrabee matches last generation of nV products, Maxwell, which is kinda were AMD is at right now. So for a chip/architecture that absolutely failed in graphics, its actually not that bad when you consider it was Intel's first foray into Dgpu, in many years.

Many of the technologies used in Larrabee can be used in other products. So that did give a leg up on an updated dGPU, the guts of Larrabee shows that its pretty capable. They just need to work on their cores and makes sure they are DX and OGL/Vulkan compatible instead of emulation which was what was tried with Larrabee. Per/watt with Knights landing isn't that bad either, close to the perf/watt of Maxwell 980ti in some areas, which is exactly where Vega is.
 
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razor1 said:
Larrabee, Intel Phi are not graphics products, never have been never will be. Now apples to apples when it comes to benchmarks with DL and HPC larrabee matches last generation of nV products, Maxwell, which is kinda were AMD is at right now. So for a chip/architecture that absolutely failed in graphics, its actually not that bad when you consider it was Intel's first foray into Dgpu, in many years.

Many of the technologies used in Larrabee can be used in other products. So that did give a leg up on an updated dGPU, the guts of Larrabee shows that its pretty capable. They just need to work on their cores and makes sure they are DX and OGL/Vulkan compatible instead of emulation which was what was tried with Larrabee. Per/watt with Knights landing isn't that bad either, close to the perf/watt of Maxwell 980ti in some areas, which is exactly where Vega is.
Click to expand...

Knights landing and all the way back to Larrabee are just machine learning build outs and have nothing to do with the consumer market. Tho Intel at first tried to make it a video card, until they realized it sucked at it. Shintai hit his head thinking Intel will launch anything in the discrete market that anyone will care about. I am not even sure if it's even possible for them to use DX and Vulkan as the way they work is completely different from a video card. My gut feeling is that is not possible without massive work on drivers and even then I think large chunks would have to be emulated. I am sure your looking at it from a mining perspective and perhaps that could be a use for it but that is not a market I would intentionally build for.
 
Gideon said:
Knights landing and all the way back to Larrabee are just machine learning build outs and have nothing to do with the consumer market. Tho Intel at first tried to make it a video card, until they realized it sucked at it. Shintai hit his head thinking Intel will launch anything in the discrete market that anyone will care about. I am not even sure if it's even possible for them to use DX and Vulkan as the way they work is completely different from a video card. My gut feeling is that is not possible without massive work on drivers and even then I think large chunks would have to be emulated. I am sure your looking at it from a mining perspective and perhaps that could be a use for it but that is not a market I would intentionally build for.
Click to expand...

Dude they could, never count out a company that has the IP, money and now a leader that can use that IP properly, is it a long road, yeah it is. around 3 years, but if anyone can do it, its Intel. What they were missing before was a proper lead and knowledge at that position, Raja has both of those capabilities. They still need other engineers, yes so I think their first try will not be as good as what is will be out, but the second try I think they will catch up. Yeah drivers are a big thing, but we are talking 3 years down the road, they have the time to do them properly too.

And no they don't need to emulate anything this time around. The reason why they had to do with the current phi's or tried, is because they were using X86 cores, which just don't have proper acceleration of the graphics API's.

Look at AMD, just because they didn't have money they went down to where Intel is when it comes to pure compute in parallel processors lol. Money is a huge factor. What Intel lacked in the past has now been rectified.

Just look at what happened after P4 screw up by Intel, they came back in a big way, yeah after AMD hit their problems with BD, Intel slowed down, but if they kept pushing their IP over that 10 year span, would AMD even look good with Zen? Keep this in mind the only reason Ryzen looks good is because Intel just sat there. They have proved themselves time and time again, they have talent on the CPU side. GPU side, WAS lacking, we have to see how that has changed after Raja. And we already know process wise Knights corner was the biggest mass production die prior to V100, 650nm, so they also have that advantage too.

Also Intel has a big uphill battle too in compute markets. Less than AMD, as they already have the software side of things since their phi's work with x86 and x64 code, but they are still up against nV with CUDA which is integrated into all major libraries, so still a disadvantage, when you factor in the performance capabilities of nV's graphics cores its a much larger disadvantage. If they can keep that coding model for HPC/DL markets and get a decent graphic core? Before you say that is impossible. I don't think its impossible. HSA is made to run on both types of processors.
 
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Shintai said:
Inefficient space heaters went out of trend several years ago not to mention the ever increasing mobile segment that Vega in reality isn't part of. As the trend continues, Nvidia and Intel grows, AMD shrinks. Opportunity to expand? Love the forever optimism! Lets be honest here, RTG died long ago and is just on a downhill fall of the cliff. There is nothing for 2018 and just another GCN in 2019 while they keep failing forever behind the curve with more generations. If you want a future alternative in the discrete GPU space you have to look towards Intel.
Click to expand...
lol, you maybe grossly underestimating the processing ability of AMD hardware and power it requires to do it.



Beating a Titan V and in power too:



Look at the Rx 56 hashrate in ETH compared to the 1080 Ti and then look at the power used:

 
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Shintai said:
Don't tell me mining is your sole sales pitch.
Click to expand...
Of course not, but generalizations fall short. There are a number of compute tests, not mining where Vega does really well. In other words not a total loss, not even close. Still should be better, much better for consumers which I think did not hit the mark.
 
noko said:
Of course not, but generalizations fall short. There are a number of compute tests, not mining where Vega does really well. In other words not a total loss, not even close. Still should be better, much better for consumers which I think did not hit the mark.
Click to expand...

It failed HPC and gaming, plain simple. And with Samsung and TSMC doing mining ASICs, the last bastion left in some coins due to certain instruction support will fade away.

Last year AMD went from around 23% to 8% share on steam for the same reason. And there is nothing new in 2018. So what will be the numbers be this time next year? 3, 4, 5%?
 
I don't think AMD's market share plunged due to Vega.

If you look at the Steam Hardware Survey results from history, you will notice this trend.

August 2017
English 38.56% -1.97%
Simplified Chinese 21.63% +4.99%

Nvidia 67.62%
AMD 18.63%

Sep 2017
English 34.64% -3.92%
Simplified Chinese 29.54% +7.91%

Nvidia 70.32%
AMD 17.14%

Oct 2017
Simplified Chinese 56.12% +26.58%
trans.gif
English 21.27% -13.37%

Nvidia 81.4%
AMD 10.84%

What we are really looking at is more like the AMD having a terrible marketshare in China, rather than AMD's share tanking due to Vega.


Source: Had to use https://web.archive.org/web/20170901000000*/http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ to get old survey results.

*Edit: Formatting
 
ChrisC said:
I don't think AMD's market share plunged due to Vega.

If you look at the Steam Hardware Survey results from history, you will notice this trend.

August 2017
English 38.56% -1.97%
Simplified Chinese 21.63% +4.99%

Nvidia 67.62%
AMD 18.63%

Sep 2017
English 34.64% -3.92%
Simplified Chinese 29.54% +7.91%

Nvidia 70.32%
AMD 17.14%

Oct 2017
Simplified Chinese 56.12% +26.58%
trans.gif
English 21.27% -13.37%

Nvidia 81.4%
AMD 10.84%

What we are really looking at is more like the AMD having a terrible marketshare in China, rather than AMD's share tanking due to Vega.


Source: Had to use https://web.archive.org/web/20170901000000*/http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ to get old survey results.

*Edit: Formatting
Click to expand...


Simplified Chinese
50.76%
-13.14%

trans.gif

English
23.24%
+5.46%

Nvidia 86.4% (+1.5%)
AMD 8.2% (-0.7%)
Intel 5.3% (-0.7%)

And even when the Chinese language share drops, AMD share drops. Try look at the January numbers and compare them with your October numbers.
 
Look AMD lost marketshare this quarter in graphics, JPR figures will be out in the next 2 weeks, also nV's Q call is coming up in a week or so, they might mention something there.

Just keep this in mind if AMD doesn't talk about marketshare in their Q call, either they sat still or lost. In this case with graphics they lost.
 
how can anyone say anyone gained or lost marketshare when gamers or anyone on the steam hardware survey can't even buy cards?

have you seen the pics of empty shelves and people buying 30 cards at a time?

well unless anyone is buying 1400 dollar 1080ti's and 1050ti's
 
Master_shake_ said:
how can anyone say anyone gained or lost marketshare when gamers or anyone on the steam hardware survey can't even buy cards?

have you seen the pics of empty shelves and people buying 30 cards at a time?

well unless anyone is buying 1400 dollar 1080ti's and 1050ti's
Click to expand...


I can cause I actually buy the JPR reports ;). Yeah they lost this quarter.

Mining isn't causing this shortage, not by itself. Vram shortages (cost) are causing the problems, So total sales of cards were affected to some degree but nV, because they secure more vram, bulk wise didn't get hit as hard.
 
razor1 said:
I can cause I actually buy the JPR reports ;). Yeah they lost this quarter.

Mining isn't causing this shortage, not by itself. Vram shortages (cost) are causing the problems, So total sales of cards were affected to some degree but nV, because they secure more vram, bulk wise didn't get hit as hard.
Click to expand...

mining isn't causing the shortage?

really? are you sure? there are video cards still being made but people can't get them because they are not going to miners?

have you read any thread on here about video cards in the last year?

i bet the ratio is 10 gpus to miners and 1 to gamers.

i bet nvidia sold more but at the same time it means nothing to the steam survey because those cards are not represented.

fucking vram shortage is causing a power supply shortage too right?

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Policies/VideoCardShortage.cm.aspx
 
Master_shake_ said:
mining isn't causing the shortage?

really? are you sure? there are video cards still being made but people can't get them because they are not going to miners?

have you read any thread on here about video cards in the last year?

i bet the ratio is 10 gpus to miners and 1 to gamers.

i bet nvidia sold more but at the same time it means nothing to the steam survey because those cards are not represented.

fucking vram shortage is causing a power supply shortage too right?

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Policies/VideoCardShortage.cm.aspx
Click to expand...


Yes I'm positive, check GN's video on this, also AMD's last Q financial call, Lisa Su stated this as well. Mining is a small % of total graphics card sold. Also if you want check the total hashrates of coins being mined and calculate the amount of cards being used in mining over the past 2 years total graphics cards used in mining is 12 million or so (gtx 1070 or rx580 level cards add an extra 2 million in there for extraneous coins) Total of 14 million cards. Total cards sold per year? Many more than that. Also because you need to figure all those 7xxx, r2xx and r3xx cards being used in mining still too as well.

I would say mining really is at around 20% of total card sales per year?

Not everyone that games mines, and very few people have the capability of power delivery of over 30 cards in their house. This is why we see videos of people mining with like 5 6 card rigs, many people doing that, but after that not going to happen unless they modify wiring incoming into there house and inside wiring. Also something I forgot entirely. Most houses power delivery covers the cost of some of the current being used added to peak vs off hours. If that changes, your base power consumption cost per watt increases too. As much as 3x the cost. So lets say me for example, if I didn't put in an extra power line dedicated to a business and used a regular residential line my cost of 6.5 cents per watt would be well yeah 15 cents per watt.

Modifying house wiring, and getting a transform dedicated to your house, is expensive, the cost of lets say 30 rigs, double that if ya need to do that. This is why most people will not really be able to do mining past what ever they can do in their house.

Having said that, 10 cards per miner right is what you stated. It might be the case with this recent downward supply, but the low supply was first created by the ram production and cost issues to begin with. Then when mining took off 2 months ago ago, that added another layer of hurt. Supply issues like this start off at least 3 or 4 months if not more prior to it being seen in consumers views. This is because nV and AMD have supplies of inventory to overcome most type of issues for at least 1 to 2 months, so for it to happen, it would have started well before that.
 
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razor1 said:
Yes I'm positive, check GN's video on this, also AMD's last Q financial call, Lisa Su stated this as well. Mining is a small % of total graphics card sold. Also if you want check the total hashrates of coins being mined and calculate the amount of cards being used in mining over the past 2 years total graphics cards used in mining is 12 million or so (gtx 1070 or rx580 level cards add an extra 2 million in there for extraneous coins) Total of 14 million cards. Total cards sold per year? Many more than that. Also because you need to figure all those 7xxx, r2xx and r3xx cards being used in mining still too as well.

I would say mining really is at around 20% of total card sales per year?
Click to expand...

nvidia telling retailers to sell to gamers and not miners because mining is a small blip in the radar right?
 
Master_shake_ said:
nvidia telling retailers to sell to gamers and not miners because mining is a small blip in the radar right?
Click to expand...


Its a small blip, it really is. I stated this in another thread, if miners are buying cards right now when crypto is high, they don't know what mining is about. They really are stupid to buy cards after crypto prices go up. They will never get their money back. The people that are serious about mining, know this and understand this. Ya hold on to your coins till the prices go up. Ya don't mine because prices go up. And definitely don't buy hardware when prices are already high.

Why do you think I stopped buying for retailers and stared buying straight from AIB's and distributors? Reason 1 I was able to get the cards I wanted with the volume I wanted, yes way more than 10. Anyone that has orders above 30 cards, know they can go to an AIB and do bulk orders. All those tiny miners out there that have to clear off store shelves. Those guys really don't know WTF they are doing.

Reason 2. I get the cards when I want to too. Lag time is there, but I know they will be coming in.

Reason 3. Retailers can't get all the cards I want

Reason 4. No cancelled orders at a later date.

All of these affect ROI big time. This is why a guy getting from retail stores, buying 6 or 10 or 12 at a time when prices are high in one month the prices of crypto halved and difficulty went up, that 2 month ROI is now 8 months. They are screwed if they bought on credit.
 
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I'll look at JPR's figures. They will definitely be interesting.

As for Vega causing marketshare to plunge, I'm still very skeptical about it. I still think Steam's hardware survey results are not definitive due to China's numbers skewing the results. I am certain what we are seeing is Nvidia's dominance in China bringing down AMD's numbers. And why do I say that?

Intel's PC video card usage
Aug 2017: 13.41%
Sep 2017: 12.23%
Oct 2017: 7.54% <- the month that Chinese numbers enter the survey
Nov 2017: 6.16%
Dec 2017: 5.98%

I have no doubt that Vega will cause AMD to lose some marketshare but plunge? Not likely to plunge. Most likely this sharp decline in AMD's marketshare as shown by Steam's hardware survey is very likely due to the Chinese market completely skewing the numbers. Nvidia has a very strong dominance in the east.
 
nah it didn't pludge, I didn't mean that, don't think I stated that either lol. It went down a little bit.
 
razor1 said:
Its a small blip, it really is. I stated this in another thread, if miners are buying cards right now when crypto is high, they don't know what mining is about. They really are stupid to buy cards after crypto prices go up. They will never get their money back. The people that are serious about mining, know this and understand this. Ya hold on to your coins till the prices go up. Ya don't mine because prices go up. And definitely don't buy hardware when prices are already high.

Why do you think I stopped buying for retailers and stared buying straight from AIB's and distributors? Reason 1 I was able to get the cards I wanted with the volume I wanted, yes way more than 10. Anyone that has orders above 30 cards, know they can go to an AIB and do bulk orders. All those tiny miners out there that have to clear off store shelves. Those guys really don't know WTF they are doing.

Reason 2. I get the cards when I want to too. Lag time is there, but I know they will be coming in.

Reason 3. Retailers can't get all the cards I want

Reason 4. No cancelled orders at a later date.

All of these affect ROI big time. This is why a guy getting from retail stores, buying 6 or 10 or 12 at a time when prices are high in one month the prices of crypto halved and difficulty went up, that 2 month ROI is now 8 months. They are screwed if they bought on credit.
Click to expand...
JsX8UsXl.jpg


"small blip"
 
Master_shake_ said:
JsX8UsXl.jpg


"small blip"
Click to expand...


Yeah those guys are idiots, they just spent oh 35k which they will never get back before new cards come out lol, once Volta comes out those cards will drop another 50% in ROI, that 6 to 8 month return, will now be 12 to 16 months, its only 2 months away maybe even less. They will figure it out once they get butt hurt. Damn people think mining is just all money, if ya don't manage it well and time when you buy and when ya sell your coins, 100% chance of loss. I have seen so many people screw them selves off of a sure profit with just buying hardware at the wrong time. Happened with the first Bitcoin mining craze, and the litecoin mining craze.

Here is a beginners guide to figure out how to mine with GPU miners

https://thebitcoin.pub/t/guide-to-gpu-mining-profitability/8053

These guys didn't even look at anything like this before they did such a big purchase. Cause its they understood the guide anything more than a 6 month ROI would be a waste to do, added to this, the difficulty section would tell them right off the bat, new GPU's are coming that are much more capable of mining, AKA next gen nV products. They would have know not to buy those 1080ti so close to this because they are going to get screwed with payouts.
 
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razor1 said:
Yeah those guys are idiots, they just spent oh 35k which they will never get back before new cards come out lol, once Volta comes out those cards will drop another 50% in ROI, that 6 to 8 month return, will now be 12 to 16 months, its only 2 months away maybe even less. They will figure it out once they get butt hurt. Damn people think mining is just all money, if ya don't manage it well and time when you buy and when ya sell your coins, 100% chance of loss. I have seen so many people screw them selves off of a sure profit with just buying hardware at the wrong time. Happened with the first Bitcoin mining craze, and the litecoin mining craze.
Click to expand...
20180112_160205-1-640x480.jpg


all these blips i can't stand it.
 
Blockchain networks are global, so people are unsurprisingly having similar experiences around the world. Suleiman Alaquel, a software developer from Riyadh, emailed us about his experiences mining cryptocurrency in Saudi Arabia. The kingdom is an attractive place to mine cryptocurrencies because electricity there is cheap. But graphics cards are expensive.

"I went to a store that's well known for PC gamers' tech," Alaquel told us by email. "As soon as I asked for a high-end GPU he said 'you're also one of them miners!' He told me that everything is sold out because of miners!"

A few miners had pre-ordered all of the high-end graphics card shipments the store expected for the next six months, Alaquel said.
Click to expand...

Gord Hadrell, a technology consultant in South Korea told us that supplies are less constrained there, perhaps because so much hardware is manufactured in Asia. But graphics card prices were still high.

"Pretty much any computer store will build you a mining rig," Hadrell wrote by email. "You choose the card, choose the number of cards, and select where you want them shipped to."

One big difference from the US or Saudi Arabia, he said, is that electric utilities don't allow mining in residential buildings—so miners generally have their rigs shipped directly to commercial hosting facilities.

"One store I was at a couple days ago was processing 17 rigs for one client," Hadrell told us. "When I tried to buy a mining case a few days ago, the store I went to had about 240 in stock, but they were all allocated and being shipped out... Not a single rack for me from that store."
Click to expand...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...creates-insane-global-graphics-card-shortage/


help me handle all these blips.
 
Master_shake_ said:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...0.H0.Xmining+ri.TRS0&_nkw=mining+rig&_sacat=0\

stop the blips!
Click to expand...


So you want to see pics of my rigs that I have close to year ago and expect them to be bought right now? OK, I have 73 rigs 6 cards each, that is much more than all of the pics you have shown thus far lol. But I bought those all over 6 months back. All of them are paid for in full by mining or selling old miners off to cover the costs of the newer rigs lol.
 
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Master_shake_ said:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...creates-insane-global-graphics-card-shortage/


help me handle all these blips.
Click to expand...


Yet AMD's CEO states this

It's a good part of our business," Dr. Su added, noting that demand has been so high that their graphics card business is running into inventory shortages these past few months.

"The graphics channel is very low, and we're certainly working to replenish that channel environment," the AMD CEO added. She then recommended a course of action to catch up to the demand. While she adds that the company plans to ramp up production in the next few months, AMD could be dealing with GDDR5 and HBM2 memory shortages in the meantime.

"We continue to work through that with our memory partners," Dr. Su noted.
Click to expand...


https://www.christianpost.com/news/...ics-cards-to-address-current-shortage-215885/

You don't know these things nor many other people know this.

Even AIB's are having difficulty getting the cards made.

Right now I can't even order in bulk from AIB's, cause their channels are so messed up. The problem is well before it reaches the store shelves.
 
razor1 said:
So you want to see pics of my rigs that I have close to year ago and expect them to be bought right now? OK, I have 73 rigs 6 cards each, that is much more than all of the pics you have shown thus far lol. But I bought those all over 6 months back. All of them are paid for in full by mining or selling old miners off to cover the costs of the newer rigs lol.
Click to expand...

how many of those cards are represented on the steam hardware survey?
 
razor1 said:
Yet AMD's CEO states this




https://www.christianpost.com/news/...ics-cards-to-address-current-shortage-215885/

You don't know these things nor many other people know this.

Even AIB's are having difficulty getting the cards made.

Right now I can't even order in bulk from AIB's, cause their channels are so messed up. The problem is well before it reaches the store shelves.
Click to expand...

oh come on

Speaking during an investor call to discuss the earnings report this afternoon, AMD CEO and president Dr. Lisa Su said the cryptocurrency mining market is “consuming a lot of GPUs.” She added, “It’s a good part of our business.”
Click to expand...

https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/30/16952964/amd-radeon-gpu-supply-shortage-cryptocurrency-mining
 
Master_shake_ said:
how many of those cards are represented on the steam hardware survey?
Click to expand...

0 % its all for mining sorry, but that is how it is. I bought them way prior to the recent coin increases that caused those "idiot" miners to go crazy and go out to buy cards lol.

Master_shake_ said:
oh come on



https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/30/16952964/amd-radeon-gpu-supply-shortage-cryptocurrency-mining
Click to expand...


oh come on 20% is a good part of their business..... You think 20% isn't good for them? Even then they are still loosing marketshare why?

Do you know why that happened? Because nV has more inventory than AMD and also can demand suppliers of memory to supply them first because they order more.

I already told ya how to figure out how many total cards there are mining. It only comes out to 12 million to 14 million total.

How many cards does AMD and nV sell per quarter?

This is easy to find..... Its around 40 million units. We are talking a 2 year span here for the latest graphics cards so..... yeah that 12 million to 14 million doesn't even cover that, even if all cards were this generation cards of the performance segment, the performance segment is 50% of the market, that is 20 million per year, that would be 40 million cards total in the 2 year span. Mining is a small drop of that. Then factor in older cards that are still good, well you don't have much else to say. Mining isn't causing this drought. Is it compounding the problem, yes, but it isn't the cause of the problem to begin with.
 
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razor1 said:
Yeah those guys are idiots, they just spent oh 35k which they will never get back before new cards come out lol, once Volta comes out those cards will drop another 50% in ROI, that 6 to 8 month return, will now be 12 to 16 months, its only 2 months away maybe even less. They will figure it out once they get butt hurt. Damn people think mining is just all money, if ya don't manage it well and time when you buy and when ya sell your coins, 100% chance of loss. I have seen so many people screw them selves off of a sure profit with just buying hardware at the wrong time. Happened with the first Bitcoin mining craze, and the litecoin mining craze.

Here is a beginners guide to figure out how to mine with GPU miners

https://thebitcoin.pub/t/guide-to-gpu-mining-profitability/8053

These guys didn't even look at anything like this before they did such a big purchase. Cause its they understood the guide anything more than a 6 month ROI would be a waste to do, added to this, the difficulty section would tell them right off the bat, new GPU's are coming that are much more capable of mining, AKA next gen nV products. They would have know not to buy those 1080ti so close to this because they are going to get screwed with payouts.
Click to expand...

Indeed, generally the best ROI is when you buy the hardware when it first release to take advantage of the additional power even with difficulty increase. Longer you wait on hardware buy, lesser the payout.

Edit, yikes my grammar, I need stop sleeping so late and definitely need to get my coffee intake.
 
razor1 said:
0 % its all for mining sorry, but that is how it is. I bought them way prior to the recent coin increases that caused those "idiot" miners to go crazy and go out to buy cards lol.




oh come on 20% is a good part of their business..... You think 20% isn't good for them? Even then they are still loosing marketshare why?

Do you know why that happened? Because nV has more inventory than AMD and also can demand suppliers of memory to supply them first because they order more.
Click to expand...

ffs i agreed with you there.

i said the shortage is caused by miners and you disagreed.

post 415

this is not an amd vs nvidia thing i am talking about.
 
are you guys arguing whether mining is causing a gpu shortage?

you cant argue facts...
 
Master_shake_ said:
ffs i agreed with you there.

i said the shortage is caused by miners and you disagreed.

post 415

this is not an amd vs nvidia thing i am talking about.
Click to expand...


And its not the cause of the shortage, it is aggravating the main cause, yes it is. But even that is still bound to happen even if mining wasn't there, because RAM is causing this issue and will not be taken care of any time soon. Ram companies miscalculated, when they reduced their manufacturing amounts several months back and now its hurting everyone that needs RAM. Its going to take a few months to fix this, because if nV and AMD are out of inventory, that means RAM inventory is also low or non exsistent, if RAM production increases, it takes a few weeks to get those inventories back up, then nV and AMD have to increase their inventories, then AIB's have to do theirs, so we are looking at 4 to 5 months down the road before this problem is solved.

In the interim, some AIB's are increasing their MSRP's because of the increased cost in RAM.
 
razor1 said:
And its not the cause of the shortage, it is aggravating the main cause, yes it is. But even that it was bound to happen because RAM is causing this issue and will not be taken care of any time soon. Ram companies miscalculated, when they reduced their manufacturing amounts several months back and now its hurting everyone that needs RAM.
Click to expand...

ok.

if it wasn't for miners would i be able to buy whatever card i wanted at msrp today right now in any store?
 
Master_shake_ said:
ok.

if it wasn't for miners would i be able to buy whatever card i wanted at msrp today right now in any store?
Click to expand...


Nope, that is why AIB's are increasing the MSRP's based on the RAM being used on those specific cards. Yes its happening we will see it in a couple of weeks.

So far AIB's and IHV's have been prioritizing, OEM's and system builders, they have to because they have long standing contracts with them that must be fulfilled otherwise there are consequences. So those guys aren't having shortages lol, we can build out systems and get them in their regular times. Once those start getting some lag, then ya know the problem is not just 4 or 5 months its going be much more than that.
 
razor1 said:
Nope, that is why AIB's are increasing the MSRP's based on the RAM being used on those specific cards. Yes its happening we will see it in a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

oh so i couldn't have maybe bought one of the 73 cards you had?

or one of the 36 i posted a pic of?

none?

even though in the sales thread we have seen cards at nvidia for msrp?

weird that.
 
Master_shake_ said:
oh so i couldn't have maybe bought one of the 73 cards you had?

or one of the 36 i posted a pic of?

none?

even though ion the slaes thread we have seen cards at nvidia for msrp?
Click to expand...


73 rigs, 73 x 6 which is 438.

Nope you couldn't have bought them, I bought them even before they hit store shelves, I ordered them. I told them I wanted this, they got them ready for me in their next batch of inventory.
 
In a lot of countries retailers don't even sell to miners because they care about their actual consumer base that keeps returning.
 
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