“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

Episode 8: The story of a man-hating purple haired lesbian and chunky useles asian girl saved a few horses from animal cruelty and destroyed valuables of rich peple.

Oh and I am pretty sure ANY light speed capable ships could destroy a star destroyer including an x-wing.

This never happened before because the computer prevents this from happening to prevent disaster. Rian thought he was bsing clever by having Admiral Condescending turn off the safety. What a joke!
 
Nightfire said:
Episode 8: The story of a man-hating purple haired lesbian and chunky useles asian girl saved a few horses from animal cruelty and destroyed valuables of rich peple.

Oh and I am pretty sure ANY light speed capable ships could destroy a star destroyer including an x-wing.

This never happened before because the computer prevents this from happening to prevent disaster. Rian thought he was bsing clever by having Admiral Condescending turn off the safety. What a joke!
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Hell yeah, preach it to those SJW liberal snowflakes brother!
 
You can be sarcastic but the whole thing was forced. We are use to the black and white of Star Wars, but were hoping for a new grey that would add some depth.

With this movie, we got the rainbow.
 
The series has been entertaining over the years but it has run its course IMO. The last one was so atrocious I never finished it and have less than zero desire to see the new one. At this point Star Wars has been done to death.
 
Blown 89 said:
The series has been entertaining over the years but it has run its course IMO. The last one was so atrocious I never finished it and have less than zero desire to see the new one. At this point Star Wars has been done to death.
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As the EU and games have often shown us, there is a lot more potential in the franchise. Unfortunately, the handling of it post Disney buy out hasn't been as good as it should have been. I'd argue it's still better than what George has given us in the prequels, but it's not lived up to the potential.
 
4saken said:
Not really. But it does just plain suck. I mean fucking sucks. And this coming from a guy with a black alfa 4C who has 'SITH' has his license tag.
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(posted this on 'rotten tomtatoes' but they seem to be HEAVILY editing content) :
Rian Johnson held Star Wars down while Kathleen Kenedy RAPED
it. This left the franchise quivering near death and thinking of suicide, while

getting the first taste of a nasty case of climidia ( from kenedy, and the kind that

makes the nethers stink like rotting sea creatures ).

Wowo, a number scale that has no zero, on a site called rotten tomatoes; (damn in a

world where the curtains are not a perfect shade of purple ) does this scale make

sense?, how many rotten tomatoes do you ,or anyone else , like to ingest...is the

bottom , really, half of a ROTTEN TOMATO? ( that won't be counted anyway )

Do 3/5 and 48% equal the same number ? Perhaps in the age of computers math is;

circumtiantial.

If you have a room temperature IQ, and the emotional maturity of a five year old,

this film MIGHT be your bag, in fact that seems whom it was designed for( and

created by ) .

disney, is 'rope a dopeing' fans as if most of them are stupid , and the rest of

them are too young to know they are being raped;

VIOLENTLY.

Dumb is the watchword for this film.

It's the Exact film one would expect to get if a very rich person went to their

saturation spoiled, super entilted 14 year old's daughters 1500 SQFT bedroom and

said: " You are locked in here until you write the next Star Wars movie"
and she said:

" But I want to go ride my pony "

and he said :

" you can ride your pony AFTER...AFTER I SAY, you write the next Star Wars

movie...and ,as aspiration, I am locking Kathleen Kenedy in here with you As she,

will inspire you, because she has been verbally, and physically abused by every man

she has ever known since she was two years old ( apparently ) , and though she may

have spent the last two years in a near comatose fuge by enjoying, an almost totally

cohesive state of physcotropically active drugs and synthetic opiates and gallons

of wine...she has notes. "

hence ,from infantile rebellion, was Star Wars 8 was born.
 
It is watchable but there was an incredible amount of deus ex machina, I mean shit it was a little insulting even. They took this Jedi thing and turned it into GOD MODE.
 
thesmokingman said:
It is watchable but there was an incredible amount of deus ex machina, I mean shit it was a little insulting even. They took this Jedi thing and turned it into GOD MODE.
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Not really. They didn't do enough with it in my opinion.
 
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Silverlok said:
(posted this on 'rotten tomtatoes' but they seem to be HEAVILY editing content) :
Rian Johnson held Star Wars down while Kathleen Kenedy RAPED
it. This left the franchise quivering near death and thinking of suicide, while

getting the first taste of a nasty case of climidia ( from kenedy, and the kind that

makes the nethers stink like rotting sea creatures ).

Wowo, a number scale that has no zero, on a site called rotten tomatoes; (damn in a

world where the curtains are not a perfect shade of purple ) does this scale make

sense?, how many rotten tomatoes do you ,or anyone else , like to ingest...is the

bottom , really, half of a ROTTEN TOMATO? ( that won't be counted anyway )

Do 3/5 and 48% equal the same number ? Perhaps in the age of computers math is;

circumtiantial.

If you have a room temperature IQ, and the emotional maturity of a five year old,

this film MIGHT be your bag, in fact that seems whom it was designed for( and

created by ) .

disney, is 'rope a dopeing' fans as if most of them are stupid , and the rest of

them are too young to know they are being raped;

VIOLENTLY.

Dumb is the watchword for this film.

It's the Exact film one would expect to get if a very rich person went to their

saturation spoiled, super entilted 14 year old's daughters 1500 SQFT bedroom and

said: " You are locked in here until you write the next Star Wars movie"
and she said:

" But I want to go ride my pony "

and he said :

" you can ride your pony AFTER...AFTER I SAY, you write the next Star Wars

movie...and ,as aspiration, I am locking Kathleen Kenedy in here with you As she,

will inspire you, because she has been verbally, and physically abused by every man

she has ever known since she was two years old ( apparently ) , and though she may

have spent the last two years in a near comatose fuge by enjoying, an almost totally

cohesive state of physcotropically active drugs and synthetic opiates and gallons

of wine...she has notes. "

hence ,from infantile rebellion, was Star Wars 8 was born.
Click to expand...

What?
 
Colonel Sanders said:
I love how we are so fucking divided that Star Wars is a political battleground now. This is insane.
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I wouldn't blame "we" on this one. Creators decided to make it a statement. Critics decided to reward it for that statement. Audiences disagree probably more from with excusing it for that statement then the statement itself.
 
The Force Awakens is released. Fans complain its just A New Hope again.

The Last Jedi is released. Fans complain it completely flips the Star Wars lore.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
 
thesmokingman said:
It is watchable but there was an incredible amount of deus ex machina, I mean shit it was a little insulting even. They took this Jedi thing and turned it into GOD MODE.
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I didn't think so. When I think deus ex machina I think the eagles from Lord of the Rings or the G-Man from the Half-Life games. Leia pulling herself towards a ship, Yoda striking the tree to make a point, and Luke facing Kylo Ren didn't rise to that territory. I don't think the magical powers shown were implausible for the setting or outside the realm of what has been explored in the EU, and the magic is just a fun background for the character drama.

It seems like most of the real dislike for this film comes from the way Luke's story plays out. Personally, I liked it. The Uber-powerful Jedi Master Luke with wife and children in the EU novels was silly. Hamill got to ride off into the sunset like he wanted.
 
My 2 cents.

Very simple thing. We didn't follow the main character around. Instead, it was very disjointed bouncing between subplots. Felt like a D&D campaign where people split and go different directions so everyone is sitting around waiting to get back to the actual story while you run off with a couple of players doing extra garbage... any good DM learns not to allow that. I guarantee this Director was never a DM.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
I didn't think so. When I think deus ex machina I think the eagles from Lord of the Rings or the G-Man from the Half-Life games. Leia pulling herself towards a ship, Yoda striking the tree to make a point, and Luke facing Kylo Ren didn't rise to that territory. I don't think the magical powers shown were implausible for the setting or outside the realm of what has been explored in the EU, and the magic is just a fun background for the character drama.

It seems like most of the real dislike for this film comes from the way Luke's story plays out. Personally, I liked it. The Uber-powerful Jedi Master Luke with wife and children in the EU novels was silly. Hamill got to ride off into the sunset like he wanted.
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That's not how martial arts works which is what the Force is ripped from. With the Leia example, you are not born enlightened and it is just hidden waiting to be unlocked. They've turned the Force into the Avengers lol. Rey, whose a juggernaut of overpowered innate ability defeats Ren with ease makes him look like a flailing pissant... please that's so wrong. Luke showed potential but had to develop his powers under Yoda and then a lifetime later he's what he is now. These movies have taken the idea of the Force and thrown in heaps of machina as a plot device to move the story along.
 
So I finally watched it (RedBox) and I think it was the best of Disney's 3 (first 2 just horrible to me) .
No sarcasm, I genuinely found it funny, and I enjoyed that.
That being said, yeah I can see why serious fans that want to see something more meaty, taken more serious would be pissed.
It was to me more like one of the good Pirates of the Caribbean.
And yes, they just pissed all over the force, sad in some ways, but to me how it was done this was funny (again, no joke, not malicious, it was just how I took it).
But yeah definitely, I can see how this ruins everything for serious fans.
So, I can see why fans are divided, they basically toss everything out the window, and pretty much made fun of a lot shit.
Mark Hamill was excellent, just excellent.
And who says he died?, that is a maybe to me.
Plot, was crap, but whatever, the lightheartedness and the do whatever however, won me over into liking it, better than the other 2 anyway.
 
I just saw it on 4K BluRay (HDR even) and wow ... just wow. The movie itself had great production values but the story and end product was hot garbage ... and this is coming from a Star Wars fan.

It seemed like they had a list of SJW beats they wanted to hit and ticked them off one at a time and don't get me started on flying space Leia ... WTF?

The point that stood out to me (like so many have already pointed out) was how buffed Rey was ... a noob with apparently no special background / heritage and she kicks the grand son of the Force Messiah's ass without breaking a sweat. Did they retcon the whole Midichlorians thing? So now everybody can be a master of the force?
 
dvsman said:
Did they retcon the whole Midichlorians thing? So now everybody can be a master of the force?
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They haven't been mentioned beyond the Phantom Menace as far as I know. The only way to look at them in my opinion is to think of them as being what allows someone to use the Force. They aren't the Force itself. Rey isn't the first Star Wars character to instinctively use the Force to some extent. Galen Marek (Starkiller) did as well. Of course he's a "Legends" character now, but it's been done before. Still, Force users always required training in the past and Rey not requiring it in some form without some sort of explanation will always seem like a retarded decision creatively.
 
dvsman said:
I just saw it on 4K BluRay (HDR even) and wow ... just wow. The movie itself had great production values but the story and end product was hot garbage ... and this is coming from a Star Wars fan.

It seemed like they had a list of SJW beats they wanted to hit and ticked them off one at a time and don't get me started on flying space Leia ... WTF?

The point that stood out to me (like so many have already pointed out) was how buffed Rey was ... a noob with apparently no special background / heritage and she kicks the grand son of the Force Messiah's ass without breaking a sweat. Did they retcon the whole Midichlorians thing? So now everybody can be a master of the force?
Click to expand...
It was never "everybody can be a master of the force." Some are more sensitive to it and can be trained to focus and use it.

But it seems what they're going for in the current trilogy is that the balance means so long as there are Jedi, there are also Sith and vice versa. Snoke says as much at the end of Ep.8, that Kylo Ren's equal from the Light side would eventually show up or something to that effect. A true Master would control both the Light and Dark sides.
 
Armenius said:
Snoke says as much at the end of Ep.8, that Kylo Ren's equal from the Light side would eventually show up or something to that effect. A true Master would control both the Light and Dark sides.
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They actually had something like that from "The Old Republic" era, where the only way to save both the Republic and the Sith Empire, was for the hero to master both sides, and bring everyone together.

Just my opinion, but the movie franchise could have taken a much better direction, had they gone back to timeline of "The Old Republic." There's so much untapped potential there,
 
Hah untapped potential could apply to a lot of SW backstories.
Seeing Ep8 squander the cinematic 'clean slate' is probably why so many were unhappy.

I watched Ep8 on the Thursday before opening night...and despite my rather neutral/positive review back in Dec 2017; I'm definitely leaning much more negative now in 2018.

It's a simple analysis of my desire to rewatch it. I don't have any lol.
 
Unabomber said:
They actually had something like that from "The Old Republic" era, where the only way to save both the Republic and the Sith Empire, was for the hero to master both sides, and bring everyone together.

Just my opinion, but the movie franchise could have taken a much better direction, had they gone back to timeline of "The Old Republic." There's so much untapped potential there,
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This is not true. I'm not really sure what you are going on about but it doesn't apply to Revan or the Exile. It doesn't apply to any of the characters since then which come from that general era. I can only assume you meant Revan as he was a Jedi, Sith and Jedi again.

In the Old Republic era, Revan fell to the dark side and came back to the light. He was a Jedi that understood both sides but the dark side has always been portrayed as being just as powerful, but doomed to failure due to its self-destructive tendencies. It wasn't the only way to save the Republic. Its simply a fact of that character's life. It may have given him insight into the Sith Emperor and other dark side Force users of the day, but wielding both sides of the force wasn't part of the equation. In fact, this was largely a mechanic of player choice in the Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 games more than anything. The character's canon ending was "light side" and therefore he was aligned with Jedi philosophy by the end of the game.

This character would also put the galaxy in peril later as his soul was split in two. He would go on to resurrect Emperor Vitiate, who threatened the galaxy. Revan was bent on revenge and created a new faction which weakened the Sith Empire and Republic forces somewhat for when the Eternal Empire attacked, conquering both. Whatever character you choose to go through Knights of the Fallen Empire does unite some of the Sith Empire and Republic against the Eternal Empire, but ultimately the player must choose one side or the other in Knights of the Eternal Throne. At that point, one faction or the other ends up against you once more.
 
Dan_D said:
This is not true. I'm not really sure what you are going on about but it doesn't apply to Revan or the Exile. It doesn't apply to any of the characters since then which come from that general era. I can only assume you meant Revan as he was a Jedi, Sith and Jedi again.

In the Old Republic era, Revan fell to the dark side and came back to the light. He was a Jedi that understood both sides but the dark side has always been portrayed as being just as powerful, but doomed to failure due to its self-destructive tendencies. It wasn't the only way to save the Republic. Its simply a fact of that character's life. It may have given him insight into the Sith Emperor and other dark side Force users of the day, but wielding both sides of the force wasn't part of the equation. In fact, this was largely a mechanic of player choice in the Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 games more than anything. The character's canon ending was "light side" and therefore he was aligned with Jedi philosophy by the end of the game.

This character would also put the galaxy in peril later as his soul was split in two. He would go on to resurrect Emperor Vitiate, who threatened the galaxy. Revan was bent on revenge and created a new faction which weakened the Sith Empire and Republic forces somewhat for when the Eternal Empire attacked, conquering both. Whatever character you choose to go through Knights of the Fallen Empire does unite some of the Sith Empire and Republic against the Eternal Empire, but ultimately the player must choose one side or the other in Knights of the Eternal Throne. At that point, one faction or the other ends up against you once more.
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AFAIK the characters that have been on the light/dark/light side of the force are Revan and Vader. Although it could be argued that Luke and even Kyle Katarn also turned dark and back.
 
Stoly said:
AFAIK the characters that have been on the light/dark/light side of the force are Revan and Vader. Although it could be argued that Luke and even Kyle Katarn also turned dark and back.
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It was always said that these characters had a deeper understanding of the force having been on both sides of it. However, all of them eventually leaned exclusively to one side or the other. Even Luke treated the dark side like it was something to be feared and was concerned that Rey had zero fear of it and didn't mind looking at that part of the force. This scared the crap out of him. Of course, any brush with the dark side beyond what we saw in Return of the Jedi is non-canon at this point. He seemed to recognize the arrogance and many failings of the of the Jedi Order but still clinged to the basic ideology.
 
Here is my take on the movie. It was bad. I mean there were some really terrible things about the movie. The acting, throwing away canon, throwing away physics -- even SW physics (although let's be honest, SW never cared much for physics), throwing away basically the entire preceding enterprise. But at the end of the day, I actually did enjoy some parts of the movie. The one thing I do agree with is throwing away the cannon, simply because this is now a Disney enterprise and it needed a new direction. I thought how they did it was fairly interesting. However, they need to come up with a strong movie after this one or I think the franchise is going to suffer for awhile. So far of the new movies, only Rogue One was good.
 
It was terrible, would rather watch the prequels. Least they were fun.

I think Kylo and Rey are great characters, it was just a terrible story.
 
For whatever reason, Disney hasn't figured out what makes Star Wars successful. They don't seem to understand the spirit of what made the original trilogy and some other material successful. Even George lost sight of what made the original trilogy work. He failed to understand the properties longevity and success. Disney really needs to ask the people behind the Clone Wars and Rebels series' what needs to be done because those people have figured it out. Clone Wars had a lot of influence from George which kept it from being as good as it could have been, but Rebels had none of that. It was the better show for it. Rebels was able to expand on the mythology and create characters you wanted to watch. Death wasn't something that plagued the series. The producers realized early on that killing off a major character in every installment wasn't the way to go. When there was a death on the show, it had gravitas and felt like it was done for a good reason. The death didn't feel forced or pointless, or cheap.

Luke's death was even worse than Han's. Han Solo's death made sense in a weird way, but it wasn't executed as well as it could or should have been. Luke's death and the treatment of his whole character was garbage. Disney should have realized that handling characters like Han, Luke and Leia has to be done right. These are characters many of us grew up watching. They are iconic and part of our culture. Turning Luke into a bitter old man who died for no reason had only one logical outcome. It was going to piss people off.
 
Sikkyu said:
It was terrible, would rather watch the prequels. Least they were fun.

I think Kylo and Rey are great characters, it was just a terrible story.
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They are fun in places and painful in others. Rey and Kylo could be good characters if they were handled somewhat differently. I think there are some good ideas there but the execution is lacking.
 
I finally got around to watching this the other day. It was okay but annoying. Snoke was a throwaway character that should have had some backstory. It was almost as if they decided to change the course of the trilogy midstream. Kylo doesn't exactly scream bad ass sith to me. More like a kid who lied to his parents about a broken vase and keeps with his story despite his parents knowing better. They need to do something with Rey, so far she is a yawnfest.
 
Dan_D said:
For whatever reason, Disney hasn't figured out what makes Star Wars successful. They don't seem to understand the spirit of what made the original trilogy and some other material successful. Even George lost sight of what made the original trilogy work. He failed to understand the properties longevity and success. Disney really needs to ask the people behind the Clone Wars and Rebels series' what needs to be done because those people have figured it out. Clone Wars had a lot of influence from George which kept it from being as good as it could have been, but Rebels had none of that. It was the better show for it. Rebels was able to expand on the mythology and create characters you wanted to watch. Death wasn't something that plagued the series. The producers realized early on that killing off a major character in every installment wasn't the way to go. When there was a death on the show, it had gravitas and felt like it was done for a good reason. The death didn't feel forced or pointless, or cheap.

Luke's death was even worse than Han's. Han Solo's death made sense in a weird way, but it wasn't executed as well as it could or should have been. Luke's death and the treatment of his whole character was garbage. Disney should have realized that handling characters like Han, Luke and Leia has to be done right. These are characters many of us grew up watching. They are iconic and part of our culture. Turning Luke into a bitter old man who died for no reason had only one logical outcome. It was going to piss people off.
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While I enjoyed the movie and thought there were some really cool parts (Luke Vs Kylo WAS pretty cool) - I tend to agree with you - The movie sorta dipped into the elements that made the first trilogy so good, it was like the filmmakers were "rusty" or trying to "remember" how to make Star Wars. They did it some but other times they simple missed.

The death point is worth mentioning - I think there are a lot of very popular shows that have learned the hard way. (I'm looking at YOU Walking Dead)

Death HAS to have a point - it has to be TRANSFORMATIVE. Game of Thrones did it early on as a major plot device but also to transform the audience - "Hey guys, guess what, no one is safe on this show" - The difference between GoT and Walking Dead is that WD just went wayyyy over the top and the deaths didnt' really shore up the weak story. GoT at least uses these crazy deaths to drive the development of other characters - look at Arya Stark as one of the shows most popular examples.

This new trilogy uses death as an easy out. Disney is in such a hurry to establish new characters they think by killing the old ones that somehow their gravitas will magically transfer to the new generation - one some levels this isn't entirely wrong but the execution has to be fleshed out much more in the storyline. Everyone knows Harrison Ford was done with SW so they had to kill him off - but where was the transformation? Kylo is still a little bitch and Rey is just made that she doesn't know who her parents are.

Luke is more a matter of timing. I suppose it's okay if they tie it up in the next movie but they just end it so quickly and leave out some really fucking crucial questions....Obi-Wan dies in Episode 4 as a means to drive Luke's development from a Outer Rim hick to a full-fledged Jedi. Oh yeah Snoke - no real change here, no one develops, nothing grows.

Another elephant in the room we aren't addressing and probably should be honest with ourselves, is the extremely powerful effect of NOSTALGIA. The original trilogy came on all the time, during holidays, when you were a kid, teenager, or young adult - and we humans have something about our memories that sugarcoat most things in the past - particularly if they were even slightly positive. This is why sequels rarely do well when there has been a very significant gap in between. (
 
Dan_D said:
For whatever reason, Disney hasn't figured out what makes Star Wars successful. They don't seem to understand the spirit of what made the original trilogy and some other material successful. Even George lost sight of what made the original trilogy work. He failed to understand the properties longevity and success. Disney really needs to ask the people behind the Clone Wars and Rebels series' what needs to be done because those people have figured it out. Clone Wars had a lot of influence from George which kept it from being as good as it could have been, but Rebels had none of that. It was the better show for it. Rebels was able to expand on the mythology and create characters you wanted to watch. Death wasn't something that plagued the series. The producers realized early on that killing off a major character in every installment wasn't the way to go. When there was a death on the show, it had gravitas and felt like it was done for a good reason. The death didn't feel forced or pointless, or cheap.

Luke's death was even worse than Han's. Han Solo's death made sense in a weird way, but it wasn't executed as well as it could or should have been. Luke's death and the treatment of his whole character was garbage. Disney should have realized that handling characters like Han, Luke and Leia has to be done right. These are characters many of us grew up watching. They are iconic and part of our culture. Turning Luke into a bitter old man who died for no reason had only one logical outcome. It was going to piss people off.
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Quite frankly that is a terrible idea. The fans of the original trilogy are largely older folks who are not the main movie viewing audience. Disney needs to appeal to younger generations, which means reinventing the franchise. This is what they are currently doing. We may not like it, but it makes more business sense for Disney to go in a new direction. As I said in my other post, they still need to make a strong movie in this new direction for it to work, or they will suffer by losing the old fans and not capturing enough new fans.
 
I think there were lots of mistakes with EP VII and just got worse in EPVIII.

I don't get this Maz Kanata character. Its completely useless. Who better than Leia to be someone who knows about the force but is no jedi?, who better to introduce Rey to the force?. EP VII completely ingores this, but then in EPVIII out of nowhere Leia has Jedi powers.

What was wrong with Rey being Luke's daughter? It was hinted in the EP VII's trailer, but suddenly scrapped. Then again out of nowhere it turns out Rey's parents are some drunks. I guess there's still hope they were her foster parents, but I wouldn't count on it.

Kylo taking on Luke single handedly? Wouldn't it be better if Luke and his pupils were defeated by Kylo and the group that would become the knights of Ren? (of which we haven't seen anything yet).
 
Star Wars nerds can never agree.


As a non Star Wars nerd, as a standalone film... it's pretty shit. Hard cuts, bad acting, unbelievable characters. They could kill everyone in this film off in the sequel and I'd have absolutely no feelings of sadness or empathy. Just robots reading lines.
 
Stoly said:
I think there were lots of mistakes with EP VII and just got worse in EPVIII.

I don't get this Maz Kanata character. Its completely useless. Who better than Leia to be someone who knows about the force but is no jedi?, who better to introduce Rey to the force?. EP VII completely ingores this, but then in EPVIII out of nowhere Leia has Jedi powers.
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Leia didn't have "Jedi" powers, she used the force, there is a difference. Just to be clear here, Leia has always had force ability, she just never was trained in it. Remember that in the original trilogy even Luke commented on the fact that the force was strong with his family. Indicating that he knew Leia had force ability and could sense it. It is also why Kylo Ren has such strong force ability.
 
Verge said:
Star Wars nerds can never agree.


As a non Star Wars nerd, as a standalone film... it's pretty shit. Hard cuts, bad acting, unbelievable characters. They could kill everyone in this film off in the sequel and I'd have absolutely no feelings of sadness or empathy. Just robots reading lines.
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Basically yes. There is no weight to anything and anyone in this. But the same could be said about VII. I'd even applaud it if they'd say: Everyone died and we start from scratch for IX.
Rogue One was no masterpiece either but at least it had characters.
 
Dan_D said:
Luke's death was even worse than Han's. Han Solo's death made sense in a weird way, but it wasn't executed as well as it could or should have been. Luke's death and the treatment of his whole character was garbage. Disney should have realized that handling characters like Han, Luke and Leia has to be done right. These are characters many of us grew up watching. They are iconic and part of our culture. Turning Luke into a bitter old man who died for no reason had only one logical outcome. It was going to piss people off.
Click to expand...

Luke doesn't die, he becomes one with the force. Actually a friend of mine at that time realized that Vader didn't kill Obi-Wan, he also became one with the force.

I do agree that Luke's character specially was treated like garbage.
 
NoOther said:
Leia didn't have "Jedi" powers, she used the force, there is a difference. Just to be clear here, Leia has always had force ability, she just never was trained in it. Remember that in the original trilogy even Luke commented on the fact that the force was strong with his family. Indicating that he knew Leia had force ability and could sense it. It is also why Kylo Ren has such strong force ability.
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I know, I simplified.
 
NoOther said:
Leia didn't have "Jedi" powers, she used the force, there is a difference. Just to be clear here, Leia has always had force ability, she just never was trained in it. Remember that in the original trilogy even Luke commented on the fact that the force was strong with his family. Indicating that he knew Leia had force ability and could sense it. It is also why Kylo Ren has such strong force ability.
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Wait a minute. I though being a jedi (or sith) was necessary to use the force at higher levels. Yes luke commented that the force was strong, which only meant at the time that they were good candidates for jedi training, not that they could use the force wily nily without any training. Then what the hell was luke's jedi training about on dagobah if not for learning how to use the force.
 
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