Unikrn Crypto CEO Devolves Into Insults When Challenged

{NG}Fidel said:
I dont see the point in being upset at him....So he bought GPUs for a crypto project.... This entire thing just feels like butt hurt. Its AMD and Nvidia that need to produce more or segment the market in a way where miners have their own products and gamers have their own products.
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It's not possible, that's the problem. As has been covered numerous times, AMD and Nvidia don't want to bet on the market by upping demand and risk having an excess of stock they can't sell. Not only that, but you can't cater to "just" the gamer or miner markets, as miners that use consumer hardware want the ability to resell that hardware, which is going to be pretty tough if other miners are the only people they can resell to.
 
vertices said:
This is an interesting concept. They don't Fix the price but they Set the price point. Hmm. Having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around it though. So what happens if the manufacturer "SETs" the price point of widgets, and retail wants to move it lower to sell more widgets as they feel this will create more profit through volume. Is retail allowed to lower the price in your world? I'm guessing that is ok with you. You just don't want them increasing what has been suggested to them, to make more profit. So you fundamentally disagree with someone making profit that you feel is more than they should make. Perhaps we should just legislate that no seller of any product is allowed to sell it for X% higher than what they paid. While I don't agree with that, that seems to be what you want.
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I don't think companies can set a fixed price and not have any deviation from it and they've gotten in trouble for it in the past. The MSRP is what makes the most sense, but there are sales, supply and demand issues, etc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

I am not a lawyer and it gets a lot more complex than that, but they can mark it up if they want to.

As far as no seller of any product is allowed to sell it for x% higher - there goes the scalping market, collectors market, etc.. A Van Gogh could be worth hundreds instead of millions.

Of course, I could be WAY off, and I'm sure others will correct me on how wrong I am... Just throwing some shit out there and seeing what sticks to the wall... I know at least one turd in my post did.
 
SomeoneElse said:
Never said they forced people to buy/sell at a price. They do tell retails what the board should sell for there is a difference , one is definitely illegal the other is not. You guys are talking setting and fixing which is two very different terms.
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Certain folks in this thread are talking past each other.

Yes, retailers want to maximize profits. Yes, this is normal and expected. It's even good from a macroeconomic point of view. It could still end up being bad for PC gaming.

It is definitely the case, however, that: miners compete with gamers for GPUs. Therefore, creating a product that targets miners, while perfectly rational from an economic standpoint, is not what a reasonable person would deem "PC-gaming friendly."

It is also definitely the case that personal attacks -- like those being lobbed by this CEO -- are a fallacy.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
So hes supposed to not attempt a new bussiness start because some people will blame him even though he doesn't decide how many GPUs are produced? I dont see how this is anyones fault but AMD/Nvidia. When paper launches and GPU shortages were going on we all knew who to blame, the companies that produce the fucking product.

This feels like reaching for a story. And then whining about him being "offensive"... Make up your mind on tough talk ffs. It cant be good when you want and bad when you dont like it. Consistency.
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It's called ethics. Can he do it? Yes. Is he allowed to do it by law? Yes, he's not breaking laws. But does it take a giant asshole to do something that contributes to an already growing problem? HELL YES.
 
Emission said:
It's not possible, that's the problem. As has been covered numerous times, AMD and Nvidia don't want to bet on the market by upping demand and risk having an excess of stock they can't sell. Not only that, but you can't cater to "just" the gamer or miner markets, as miners that use consumer hardware want the ability to resell that hardware, which is going to be pretty tough if other miners are the only people they can resell to.
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That true but sooner or later the house cards will come crash down
 
bugleyman said:
Profiting without regard for the problems of others is practically a corporate imperative. ;)
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It's free market capitalism. It doesn't matter if you're an individual or a corporation, the name of the game is to maximize profits. So the one who will excel at the game is the one who has the least regard for collateral damage.
 
M76 said:
This is actually bigger than gaming. Sure PC gaming is the immediate casualty. But when examined closely mining (nomen est omen) undermines and upsets the economy as well. And not just the economy of the marketplace, but THE economy as well. Do you think all that wasted energy that goes into mining rigs have no attached costs? Mining is basically turning natural resources into "free" money. That's wrong on so many levels. It produces no value, contributes in no way to the advancement of communities, just the personal wealth of the people engaged in the practice. Yet it uses vast amounts of finite resources. Don't be fooled by renewables, most of the world's power demand is still supplied by coal.
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Turning natural resources into a product to make money is wrong? Where do the raw materials for any product come from? Sure you can form an OPINION that too much electricity is being used, but you can’t state it as fact. It seems though that you somehow feel creating digital goods for sale to buyers who desire them is wrong. Tell me, what is the difference between me writing a piece of software and selling it to you, and me selling you a digital token? To me they are identical. You are selling different forms of 0s and 1s. That is all. If you feel crypto is wrong and has no value, then must also feel that creating software is wrong and has no value. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
 
The title CEO used to be a fairly respected one, nowadays anyone can be CEO of whatever half ass startup and deliver a healthy helping of stupidity for the world to see on social media regularly.
 
M76 said:
It's free market capitalism. It doesn't matter if you're an individual or a corporation, the name of the game is to maximize profits. So the one who will excel at the game is the one who has the least regard for collateral damage.
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Right. Of course in a perfectly functioning market, the costs of that collateral damage (i.e. negative externalities) would be born by the capitalist and factored into the market price. Of course, perfectly functioning markets don't exist, a fact often conveniently missed by those advocating for completely unregulated capitalism. But that's another thread... :p
 
vertices said:
This is a foolish argument. Cards are used by more than just gamers now, get over it. In other news, people also use buy clothespins for bags of chips. Oh the horror. Don't blame the people selling or buying cards, blame the manufacturers for not making enough to satisfy all of the demand.
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The problem is that there is no number of cards high enough to satisfy miners as long as the ROI is there. You have one customer segment damaging another and it will have a knock on effect on the entire PC industry.

Nvidia and AMD are playing wait and see right now because of how volatile the Crypto market is. Meanwhile, all of the other PC component manufacturers are getting fucked.
 
surfhick reborn said:
I think making mining only cards just produces cards with little to no resale value.
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That doesn't solve any of the silicon supply issues. A mining-only card uses the exact same memory and GPU parts as a regular video card.

What needs to get solved here is more fabs to feed our digital desires. But those are expensive, and take years to build.

10 billion for a cutting-edge logic fab. Very hard to build, and price will probably double by 2020. TSMC paid 9.3 Billion for Fab15.

7 billion for NAND fab. Currently strapped to the limits thanks to the iPhone, and every other digital device hanging on your person.

5 billion for a DRAM fab. And this is the first time in years that DRAM prices have been high enough to make anyone money, so it's hard to justify new fabs.

You want us to satisfy this huge spike in demand? Then get used to the prices you pay officially going up. Silicon is no-longer going down in price with each generation.
 
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NeoNemesis said:
The problem is that there is no number of cards high enough to satisfy miners as long as the ROI is there. You have one customer segment damaging another and it will have a knock on effect on the entire PC industry.

Nvidia and AMD are playing wait and see right now because of how volatile the Crypto market is. Meanwhile, all of the other PC component manufacturers are getting fucked.
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A lot of motherboard manufacturers must be getting slammed right now with overstock. There's no way people are even coming remotely close to buying the same amount of motherboards for videocards that are available in the market. I know it was an uptick year due to Ryzen coming on the scene, but still we must be looking at a massive overage in product sitting around, and when you're an intel partner that has their chipset replaced every single year, it's probably going to be a massive write-off.
 
NeoNemesis said:
The problem is that there is no number of cards high enough to satisfy miners as long as the ROI is there. You have one customer segment damaging another and it will have a knock on effect on the entire PC industry.

Nvidia and AMD are playing wait and see right now because of how volatile the Crypto market is. Meanwhile, all of the other PC component manufacturers are getting fucked.
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I simply disagree with this statement. No one is damaged, you can buy cards right now at Amazon, you just have to pay a little more than you did before as prices have gone up. If less PCs are sold, due to the overall cost of the PC being higher, well then manufacturers should work to create product. If Intel would like remove the reliance on Nvidia to sell their product, perhaps they should start making high end gaming cards themselves. If I needed to build a new gaming PC today, I would do so and pay what I needed to pay.
 
defaultluser said:
That doesn't solve any of the silicon supply issues. A mining-only card uses the exact same memory and GPU parts as a regular video card.

What needs to get solved here is more fabs to feed our digital desires. But those are expensive, and take years to build.

10 billion for a cutting-edge logic fab. Very hard to build, and price will probably double by 2020. TSMC paid 9.3 Billion for Fab15.

7 billion for NAND fab. Currently strapped to the limits thanks to the iPhone, and every other digital device hanging on your person.

5 billion for a DRAM fab. And this is the first time in years that DRAM prices have been high enough to make anyone money, so it's hard to justify new fabs.

You want us to satisfy this huge spike in demand? Then get used to the prices you pay officially going up. Silicon is no-longer going down in price with each generation.
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One of two things are going to happen here. Demand stays high for a very long time and manufacturers invest in ramping up production. Or, it's a bubble and demand falls back to reality. The price of cards will also fall to reflect the falling demand.
 
not sure ends up in a worse position, GPU makers when the monopoly money fad dies and market floods with used GPU's, or moherboard/memory/hard drive/case manufactures who cant sell components because no one cn build a system right now with a reasonable GPU at reasonable price

and the buy an old one for now and replace it later might work for use tech savvy type, but your average home user is going to look at you a little funny when you want to sell them old junk and suggest you come back later to buy the proper one.

hell i want to build some autocad boxes for work with some 1080ti card or vega 64 cards and i cant find them in stock anywhere in Canada, id like one for myself at home too but no stock or if there is one its 2-3x msrp
 
surfhick reborn said:
One of two things are going to happen here. Demand stays high for a very long time and manufacturers invest in ramping up production. Or, it's a bubble and demand falls back to reality. The price of cards will also fall to reflect the falling demand.
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Thank you, captain obvious. Welcome to the thread. :p
 
Nothing like affirming that an argument is lost through lame as fuck insults. Bravo Zulu Rahul.
 
vertices said:
How is it having a negative effect on the gaming community? Can gamers no longer have fun gaming? Or do they just not like that cards cost more now? Personally I don't like that my truck cost $60K either. I used to be able to buy them for much less. The pickup truck driving community is hurting.
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Only 60? What a bargain! A fully kitted out Dodge Ram (using their config tool) is 127k CAD!:hungover:
 
vertices said:
This is a foolish argument. Cards are used by more than just gamers now, get over it. In other news, people also use buy clothespins for bags of chips. Oh the horror. Don't blame the people selling or buying cards, blame the manufacturers for not making enough to satisfy all of the demand.
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Yep. GPUs are general computing devices now, and no longer just something that fickle gamers have to be begged to buy with rebates and free games.

The post processing and effects industries, medical and scientific have also been part of the demand overall, as software stacks have become more agnostic - less software is requiring the more expensive compute GPUs.

So basically everybody's buying consumer GPUs. Add a ram shortage, momentary surge in mining revenues, and nvidia in the midst of a generational pivot to Volta, and the law of supply and demand, and you've got an availability crunch as gamers weep in locked bathrooms.
 
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Todd Walter said:
Only 60? What a bargain! A fully kitted out Dodge Ram (using their config tool) is 127k CAD!:hungover:
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I bought mine in 2016, maxed out F-150 Lariat 4x4 Ecobeast. Sticker was 61K USD, bought for 53K, then added another 7K for lift and wheels and tires and other upgades. I'm sure they are even more expensive now.
 
Putz said:
hell i want to build some autocad boxes for work with some 1080ti card or vega 64 cards and i cant find them in stock anywhere in Canada, id like one for myself at home too but no stock or if there is one its 2-3x msrp
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If the systems are for AutoCad, you could just get the GPUs designed for AutoCad such as the Nvidia Quadro line or the AMD FirePro line.
You can get all of those that you want.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Did they not try this already with some cards that had literally no video outputs on the back of them? Not sure what happened with those, ie. if they sold well or at all.
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That's basically what Tesla boards are, except they are very expensive. If they were to make mining card, some questions will come up as to how it will stack up in performance to GeForce as well as Tesla as well as in price. I think they did make mining cards and they cost same or less and give more performance, this may still conflict with Tesla unless they somehow gimp them. Not sure but there's probably a good business reason for NV and AMD to not make them. Maybe they don't think crypto will stay around long enough for them to engineer and launch production for such boards.
 
vertices said:
I bought mine in 2016, maxed out F-150 Lariat 4x4 Ecobeast. Sticker was 61K USD, bought for 53K, then added another 7K for lift and wheels and tires and other upgades. I'm sure they are even more expensive now.
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I'm lucky that I only have a small toy hauler and can get away with a Tahoe with the 327; I'd hate to think what a horse-hauler would go for in today's market.
 
vertices said:
This is a foolish argument. Cards are used by more than just gamers now, get over it. In other news, people also use buy clothespins for bags of chips. Oh the horror. Don't blame the people selling or buying cards, blame the manufacturers for not making enough to satisfy all of the demand.
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Funny, I don't remember ever seeing a shortage of clothespins or having to shell out $100 for a single pin...

Oh look, I can get 100 clothespins for $12! Damn those potato chip hoards!

https://www.amazon.com/Whitmor-Natu...F8&qid=1516997795&sr=8-5&keywords=clothespins

Analogy is flawed.
 
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vertices said:
I bought mine in 2016, maxed out F-150 Lariat 4x4 Ecobeast. Sticker was 61K USD, bought for 53K, then added another 7K for lift and wheels and tires and other upgades. I'm sure they are even more expensive now.
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At that point, what was the Raptor price difference? Or did they not offer the crews on the Raptor then?
 
Todd Walter said:
I'm lucky that I only have a small toy hauler and can get away with a Tahoe with the 327; I'd hate to think what a horse-hauler would go for in today's market.
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I used to tow a travel trailer but we sold it and got a boat. Now the boat is usually on the lift in the canal behind the house so no longer have to tow it to the ramp. It's still good for gettin in the mud though. :D

Randall Stephens said:
At that point, what was the Raptor price difference? Or did they not offer the crews on the Raptor then?
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The raptor has a lower towing capacity and I like to tow my boat down to the keys now and then. Plus it was an older model, the 2017 Raptor redesign wasn't out yet.
 
HorseproofBacon said:
Funny, I don't remember ever seeing a shortage of clothespins or having to shell out $100 for a single pin...

Oh look, I can get 100 clothespins for $12! Damn those potato chip hoards!

https://www.amazon.com/Whitmor-Natu...F8&qid=1516997795&sr=8-5&keywords=clothespins

Analogy is flawed.
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Analogy is perfect. My point is lots of items are used for more than one thing. Video Cards are now one of those items. As pointed out by others, it's not even just crypto that is stealing "your" GPUs. Eventually supply will increase to satisfy all of the various demands for these GPUs.
 
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M76 said:
This is actually bigger than gaming. Sure PC gaming is the immediate casualty. But when examined closely mining (nomen est omen) undermines and upsets the economy as well. And not just the economy of the marketplace, but THE economy as well. Do you think all that wasted energy that goes into mining rigs have no attached costs? Mining is basically turning natural resources into "free" money. That's wrong on so many levels. It produces no value, contributes in no way to the advancement of communities, just the personal wealth of the people engaged in the practice. Yet it uses vast amounts of finite resources. Don't be fooled by renewables, most of the world's power demand is still supplied by coal.
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So its just like the Federal Reserve "Bank" in the USA and all the other banks across the world that print money out of nothing. Except that it is not so controllable by governments or the banking cartels and individuals have access to it.
 
James21 said:
If the systems are for AutoCad, you could just get the GPUs designed for AutoCad such as the Nvidia Quadro line or the AMD FirePro line.
You can get all of those that you want.
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may have to yet, but for the same MRSP when it comes to quadro vs geforce you get a generation newer and 2-3 models up for the same price, for 900 bucks (CAD) you can get a generation newer and 2 models up going geforce vs quadro, and i dont need any of the "quadro only" features but may have to go that route yet, solidworks is the only one thats given me issues running non quadro cards to date (and of course intels junk no one likes)
 
You are supposed to pay more as a professional user for your video cards to help support Nvidia's bottom line.
Joking aside... just watch out for the next few GeForce driver EULA updates, sorry no using these "consumer" cards for professional corporate AutoCad work, only allowed for home use or mining.
 
While this CEO sure looks like a Dingus, this whole GPU situation is a simple demand outstripping supply thing, and the only entities that can realistically solve this is AMD and nVidia, by producing more.

Sure, they could also offer bundles, which has shown to work, but that only goes so far.

The reason the GPUs are being snatched up is irrelevant. Would the situation be any different if the demand came from multimedia houses snatching them up for render farms?

No. It would not.

Getting angry at the miners in no way solves the problem, and expecting them to stop is a Fool's errand.

Yes, the situation sucks. But tell AMD and nVidia to get their fucking act together. Any other business in their position would be losing sleep over figuring out how to ship more units.
 
vertices said:
Analogy is perfect. My point is lots of items are used for more than one thing. Video Cards are now one of those items. As pointed out by others, it's not even just crypto that is stealing "your" GPUs. Eventually supply will increase to satisfy all of the various demands for these GPUs.
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No it's really not. The logic in the analogy is flawed since you are comparing apples to oranges. A better analogy would have been to analyze the artificial price gouging that occurs during a natural disaster where the actions of a few retards affect the masses (such as gas hoarders).

The only way supply will meet demand is when cryptocurrency goes bust. The soon the better. Until then, criticizing yours (and others) cryptocurrency mining operations is both valid and justified.
 
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BloodyIron said:
While this CEO sure looks like a Dingus, this whole GPU situation is a simple demand outstripping supply thing, and the only entities that can realistically solve this is AMD and nVidia, by producing more.
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It's more complicated than a normal demand vs. supply imbalance because of the rampant speculation and the uncertainty of cryptocurrencies.
 
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