Holy mother of....

For a fucking soundbar, when any comparable surround setup should cost a third of that and still sound better due to physical advantages of not being restricted to faux "3D audio" and its limited applications?

Even worse when the only recommendations mentioned are from a single source.

I'd love to hear one and be completely wrong, but this seems like another example of snakeoil audiophile bullshit propagated by idiots out there who will go out and buy a $10K audio cable and swear up and down it sounds better than the $100 equivalent. This coming from someone who loves spending money on AV stuff when the upgrades are noticeable. But why would anyone with $9K buy this over a proper 5.1/7.1... hell, even just a proper pair of extremely good floorstanding speakers (2.0)? Anyone limited in space is going to be limited in ability to play shit loud, so that takes the soundbar out of the running as well unless you're gonna soundproof your apartment (which can be done for a proper setup as well).

A fool and his money...
 
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$5799 on the bottom of the page.
$2200 for extra subs.
Piano finish is $300 extra.

$600 shipping??? For that much money, they should ship it for free.

soudnblaster.jpg
 
Holy crap! This is a new level of ridiculousness and this comes from a person that once dumped more than $45,000 on speakers alone. (I had 2X B&W 800Ds, B&W HTM1D center, 4X B&W 803Ds and the side sourounds up high) and on top of that 2X custom subs (2X 15" woofers each - 5,000 Watts RMS for the sub pair) and several high-end apms (Bryston, Electrocompaniet Nemos).

I have spent so much time into home theater audio that is not even funny. Eventually I sold the above speaker system (blowing tweeters from time to time) and went with custom Danley Sound Labs Speakers. I kept the subs and some of the amps besides the Electrocompaniets.

Now, for $9,000 you certainly don't get a reference audio system but for a fu..ing gimmick soundbar (that might be the best soundbar but still a soundbar) I would not spend a dime and would prefer to go 2 channel audio even for movies.

To be fair, I have not heard the above system and I am pretty sure it is presented in the best possible room set-up (that has nothing to do with your room) and tuned to death with specially selected material.

I really wonder who are they targeting with this thing? $2599 for a freaking 2 X 10" subwoofer? My LCRs have 12" woofers lol.

For anyone even thinking of this, do yourself a favor and start reading up on Home Theater audio before wasting your money.
 
"In this realm, every audio stream regardless of quality is algorithmically metamorphosized to an eXtreme Fidelity level of 24-bit 192kHz high-resolution audio and expanded three-dimensionally into a 15.2 super wide soundstage."

What did Creative mean by this?
 
looks good but holy shit the price!
over 50% off with code: SCCES2018
 
Only 100x overpriced lol.
Even then it might not be worth it.
My guess is they are desperate for revenue.
Assuming a normal price profit margin of 10%, selling just one of these is equivalent to selling approaching 1000 units at normaL price.
 
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http://www.avsforum.com/creative-x-fi-sonic-carrier-soundbar-demo-cedia-2017/

Mark Henniger is no stranger to high end audio. He's also not afraid to call a spade a spade. If he likes something he'll say he likes it, regardless of whether it's will please the high brow readers on his forum. As you might imagine, the biggest AV forum on the web's primary audio reviewer giving this thing high praise probably means it's pretty decent.

He's got different speakers in his room about every month from various companies -- everything from high end, to budget.

I'm at least curious what it sounds like -- as my mind was blown in 2017 on two different occasions with simulations of immersive audio as well. The technology of the Smyth Research Realiser A16 has to be heard to be believed.
http://www.smyth-research.com/

On a much much much lesser scale the surround simulation audio on my new 2017 alienware 13 is actually pretty uncanny. I've showed it the built in demo to multiple people at the office and they are like how is that laptop doing that? (and that's only with cheap little laptop speakers)


A soundbar won't be replacing my 7.1.4 Atmos system in my basement home theater anytime soon - - but i'll give Mark the benefit of the doubt as a long time member at AVSforum, familiar with his reviews, and assume this thing sounds truly surprising.
 
"In this realm, every audio stream regardless of quality is algorithmically metamorphosized to an eXtreme Fidelity level of 24-bit 192kHz high-resolution audio and expanded three-dimensionally into a 15.2 super wide soundstage."

What did Creative mean by this?
That's an actual quote?!
 
http://www.avsforum.com/creative-x-fi-sonic-carrier-soundbar-demo-cedia-2017/

Mark Henniger is no stranger to high end audio. He's also not afraid to call a spade a spade. If he likes something he'll say he likes it, regardless of whether it's will please the high brow readers on his forum. As you might imagine, the biggest AV forum on the web's primary audio reviewer giving this thing high praise probably means it's pretty decent.

He's got different speakers in his room about every month from various companies -- everything from high end, to budget.

I'm at least curious what it sounds like -- as my mind was blown in 2017 on two different occasions with simulations of immersive audio as well. The technology of the Smyth Research Realiser A16 has to be heard to be believed.
http://www.smyth-research.com/

On a much much much lesser scale the surround simulation audio on my new 2017 alienware 13 is actually pretty uncanny. I've showed it the built in demo to multiple people at the office and they are like how is that laptop doing that? (and that's only with cheap little laptop speakers)


A soundbar won't be replacing my 7.1.4 Atmos system in my basement home theater anytime soon - - but i'll give Mark the benefit of the doubt as a long time member at AVSforum, familiar with his reviews, and assume this thing sounds truly surprising.
What I get from this is the positional audio is impressive and immersive, and the sound quality for anything else is shit for the price.
 
I don't think a one size (literally, because you can't adjust the separation of the speakers) approach is going to be ideal, especially in something that does not seem to have any sort of room measurement or correction.

Ok, it bounces sound off your walls and your ceiling, great - but how high is my ceiling and how wide is my room?

Do these DSPs have the ability to adjust phase and timing of the speakers to tune everything? Looking at the youtube video, it doesn't look like it.

Your equipment is only half of the system - your room is the other half and if you don't recognize that and have some sort of strategy (even a simple one) to deal with that, then I can't take them seriously.

Not that I would buy that thing - ever.
 
There's no way that sub is worth $2600, lmao.

Besides, even if there was a real life application this might be a good idea for, an actual theater room is that last place you would use this. It's not even good decor. It looks terrible.

sonic_carrier_02.jpg
 
I don't think a one size (literally, because you can't adjust the separation of the speakers) approach is going to be ideal, especially in something that does not seem to have any sort of room measurement or correction.

Ok, it bounces sound off your walls and your ceiling, great - but how high is my ceiling and how wide is my room?

Do these DSPs have the ability to adjust phase and timing of the speakers to tune everything? Looking at the youtube video, it doesn't look like it.

Your equipment is only half of the system - your room is the other half and if you don't recognize that and have some sort of strategy (even a simple one) to deal with that, then I can't take them seriously.

Not that I would buy that thing - ever.


Exactly! This is not something objective it is pure physics, period.

I have spent countless hours measuring and tuning with room correction software using digital filters (convolution) and 10 out of 10 times the result measures and sounds better than with no correction.

The best way to go about it is to first measure (with appropriate equipment - i.e. Calibrated Pro microphone), then apply physical acoustic treatment (based on calculations) and then fine-tune with digital filters.

Room Correction has been around for some time now and not even including a basic kit at this price is unacceptable.

An no way a subwoofer will sound good without correction. LOL looking at the image above they have even placed it wrong.



Now to be fair, I have not heard it and it might work within the realm of "compromised setup possibilities" however, compared to a real set-up there is no way that it sounds better.
Is it easier to set-up? Yes it is and this is what they are targeting. But especially for the subwoofer, at this price, someone who knows will be hard pressed to find a worse deal.

A simple example:

pb-4000-hero-piano-gloss.jpg


@ $1899

https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-4000

And for the same $2499 you can get the Ultra Version

https://www.svsound.com/products/pb16-ultra
 
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Wow 600 watts of Subwoofer, I'm sure that'll rattle me. The Paradigm Sub 1 no doubt sounds like a wet fart in comparison.


Seriously I'd just buy some Stax headphones and a Smyth Realiser if I lived on a planet where I thought this was a good idea. I get the appeal of soundbars in the living room but this is just stupid.
 
The sound bars are for people who have home decor dictated by wives or girl friends i.e. they have no chance for real quality on anything. No large tv (God forbid a projector) and no visible speakers allowed. Some of the sound bars work surprisingly well for what they are. But I'd never pay even 10% of that price for the bar.

The snatch must be pretty darn good to give away your hobbies... :)
 
I bet Creative would make a ton of cash if they made a sound card with a calibration microphone input, automatic calibration, manual calibration, supported various DSP standards like Dolby Atmos, DTS, Dolby Digital, etc. I bet people would pay $400 or more for it. Hell $249 for the basic sound card and $299 for an expandable breakout box with an active crossover setup. I'd love to set my CPU to processing sound all day. ;)

You could run a ton of channels with an amp similar to this.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/home-audio/multi-zone-amplifiers/architect-series/architect-model-2660/

I'd also love to build a car PC for a setup like that. Audiofrog has a 24 channel DSP prototype for the car that the CEO demos at various shows.
https://www.ceoutlook.com/2016/01/04/audiofrog-shows-24-channel-dsp-prototype/
 
I agree.
Providing genuinely useful features like this could work very well for them now they have a decent sounding Sabre32 DAC chip on a soundcard (AE-5).
The downside (for Atmos use) is its only 5.1.
The DAC chip is 8 channel though, perhaps 4 are purposed to the front channels for 3dB better s/n.
I wonder if Creative have got an 8 channel version (or up to 16 with 2 DAC chips) lined up if there is enough demand.
They must be considering how to make use of Atmos at some time.

I'd love to set my CPU to processing sound all day.
This is exactly what my PC does for high quality TV sound and audiophile stereo.
It takes an audio feed from my Satellite box and pumps the sound out through my PCs DAC (Holo Audio - Spring Level 2) to give PC and TV sound without having to switch inputs.
Having no need for an audio switch or pre-amp allows me to connect the DAC directly to my power amp (via XLR) for ultimate clarity, it really helps.
To play music I simply load Foobar or HQPlayer, they automatically cut TV sound off by using direct access to the DAC (none shared mode stops use of the Windows sound mixer).
Phenomenal sound!
 
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I bet Creative would make a ton of cash if they made a sound card with a calibration microphone input, automatic calibration, manual calibration, supported various DSP standards like Dolby Atmos, DTS, Dolby Digital, etc. I bet people would pay $400 or more for it. Hell $249 for the basic sound card and $299 for an expandable breakout box with an active crossover setup. I'd love to set my CPU to processing sound all day. ;)

You could run a ton of channels with an amp similar to this.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/home-audio/multi-zone-amplifiers/architect-series/architect-model-2660/

I'd also love to build a car PC for a setup like that. Audiofrog has a 24 channel DSP prototype for the car that the CEO demos at various shows.
https://www.ceoutlook.com/2016/01/04/audiofrog-shows-24-channel-dsp-prototype/


No need for Creative (and their software)

There are numerous solutions from low cost https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series

to ultra expensive (Datasat) http://www.datasatdigital.com/cinema/products/ap20.php


The hard part is your time and "thisrt" for knowledge... BTW I have auditioned an older version of DATASAT Dirac and this thing is amazing but $20K++..

I have paused this hobby due to other priorities now (kids education) but my future plans include a great audio interface $2999

LIOFrontActive.jpg


https://www.mhsecure.com/mhdirect/product.php?productid=74&cat=3&page=1


But you also need a great PC card to output audio channels to it for Dolby related stuff like LYNX AES16e (16X PCIE)

aes16e-1-500x322.jpg


Then with the appropriate software (Digital Room Correction) and some good measuring gear (not cheap uncalibrated microphones) you can do wonders. (The halo has one of the greatest MIC pre-amps in the industry amazing for good heaphones too)
 
I bet Creative would make a ton of cash if they made a sound card with a calibration microphone input, automatic calibration, manual calibration, supported various DSP standards like Dolby Atmos, DTS, Dolby Digital, etc. I bet people would pay $400 or more for it. Hell $249 for the basic sound card and $299 for an expandable breakout box with an active crossover setup. I'd love to set my CPU to processing sound all day. ;)
I'd be interested in that, but, judging by Creative's current products, I don't think they're interested in creating anything that could be considered niche; they stopped putting 7.1 discrete outputs on their gaming cards because they no longer sell a 7.1 computer speaker package and probably because not enough people used it anyway. They've moved on to greener pastures: RGB, gaming headphones (and keyboards!), and overpriced soundbars. I keep hoping that one day Creative will release some kind of magical card with features you've mentioned, but hope is probably the only thing I'm going to be left with.
 
B&W 800Ds, Eventually I sold the above speaker system (blowing tweeters from time to time).
Why did the tweeters go often?Thrashing them? 800D tweeters?
Been looking to pick up used 800Ds for a while.

People who buy sound bars are often rich gadget types with WAF issues and no idea about sound in my experience.

Hifi subs are the biggest rip off. Went custom 21" maelstrom x² and nxv800 mono kits with custom toroids. Best damping factor I could find.
 
Why did the tweeters go often?Thrashing them? 800D tweeters?
Been looking to pick up used 800Ds for a while.

People who buy sound bars are often rich gadget types with WAF issues and no idea about sound in my experience.

Hifi subs are the biggest rip off. Went custom 21" maelstrom x² and nxv800 mono kits with custom toroids. Best damping factor I could find.


Sorry I might have not phrased it properly. There was absolutely no problem with the speaker (excellent) and they look fantastic. It was my mistake of pushing "certain things" beyond what the speaker was designed to do. Specifically, I was asking for pro cinema reference sound levels in a huge space that only Pro Gear would be able to manage (and the excellent JBL Everest systems $$$$$$).

I managed to blow the tweeters on 3 speakers (I had 7 using the same tweeter) lol due to spikes on certain transients.

And when I say blown I mean the wire cutting on the voice coil - the diamond dome was intact. B&W replaced them for me at no charge (about $1,000 each if you buy them) but I sent them the damaged ones back (they could repair them easily - just rewind them).

So go ahead and buy them if you like them they are amazing speakers but I am into a different type of sound and requirements. I would definitely keep them as well for the living room or might buy them again in the future.
 
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"In this realm, every audio stream regardless of quality is algorithmically metamorphosized to an eXtreme Fidelity level of 24-bit 192kHz high-resolution audio and expanded three-dimensionally into a 15.2 super wide soundstage."

What did Creative mean by this?
Fancy words to confuse the normal's.
 
"In this realm, every audio stream regardless of quality is algorithmically metamorphosized to an eXtreme Fidelity level of 24-bit 192kHz high-resolution audio and expanded three-dimensionally into a 15.2 super wide soundstage."

What did Creative mean by this?
It means all audio is upsampled to 192KHz/24bit and fed to a 15 speaker soundstage with 2 subwoofers, using an algorithm to do something with the sound that they report as super wide 3 dimensional.

A lot of BS.
They dont use 15 speakers and they dont have 2 subwoofers.
By the same tune its easy to assume the 3D super wide soundstage effect isnt that good either.
 
It means all audio is upsampled to 192KHz/24bit and fed to a 15 speaker soundstage with 2 subwoofers, using an algorithm to do something with the sound that they report as super wide 3 dimensional.

A lot of BS.
They dont use 15 speakers and they dont have 2 subwoofers.
By the same tune its easy to assume the 3D super wide soundstage effect isnt that good either.
They'll sell enough of this stuff, though. There are plenty of people that believe that virtual surround is just as good as discrete surround, likely because they have no real point of reference. Most people don't pay attention to sound in a movie theater and have only heard audio through TV speakers, cheap headphones, cell phones, or incorrectly configured surround sound systems, so it's easy to be blown away by marketing and a soundbar in an optimal demo environment.
 
They could easily create a 1024.512 virtual surround and that would be 6D and blow peoples anuses inside out so they could smell the fresh coffee.

Btw I have used Dirac for years and while it can correct a lot of things, it can't break physics. You get an approximation that's usually better than the 'without' but it won't perform miracles. Your room and your speakers are still the defining factor in the end result.

What I mean to say with this is that if you have a bad speaker/room combination, Dirac will make it a little (or a lot) better. But it won't make a cheap stereo set sound like a high-end one. It will however make the high-end one sound even better in most cases. If there is anything to correct, that is :)
 
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I'm happy with my Realtek and logitech Z906s on my Taichi Purity Sound onboard on Powerfull setting.
 
There's no way that sub is worth $2600, lmao.

Besides, even if there was a real life application this might be a good idea for, an actual theater room is that last place you would use this. It's not even good decor. It looks terrible.

sonic_carrier_02.jpg

What is wrong with that car? Looks like the right side is all jacked up? They can't even get a graphic artist to make a proper car? Looks like they grabbed somebody that had little to no experience in 3d modeling.
 
Soundbars can sound ok. I'll admit it as a guy who would never own one. They are far better than the damn bluetooth speakers I hear all the time. How anyone can listen to music on those is beyond me. I can wait to listen to music till I'm in my car or home.
 
They could easily create a 1024.512 virtual surround and that would be 6D and blow peoples anuses inside out so they could smell the fresh coffee.

Btw I have used Dirac for years and while it can correct a lot of things, it can't break physics. You get an approximation that's usually better than the 'without' but it won't perform miracles. Your room and your speakers are still the defining factor in the end result.

What I mean to say with this is that if you have a bad speaker/room combination, Dirac will make it a little (or a lot) better. But it won't make a cheap stereo set sound like a high-end one. It will however make the high-end one sound even better in most cases. If there is anything to correct, that is :)

I agree 100%! Nothing can replace proper speakers (size - design) in an appropriate room (speaker capacity to room layout and volume). And even before one resorts to Room Correction software looking into physical acoustic treatment in the form of Diffusers / absorbers that have been designed and or selected based on Room Measurements and analysis.

After all of this Room Correction software can add the finishing touch. It is a tiring process and costs money with the former being easy to assign to a professional but the latter can not be avoided.


What is wrong with that car? Looks like the right side is all jacked up? They can't even get a graphic artist to make a proper car? Looks like they grabbed somebody that had little to no experience in 3d modeling.

LoL The whole scene sucks badly! Very bad / cheap 90s graphics look.


Soundbars can sound ok. I'll admit it as a guy who would never own one. They are far better than the damn bluetooth speakers I hear all the time. How anyone can listen to music on those is beyond me. I can wait to listen to music till I'm in my car or home.

Bluetooth speakers are indeed sad in the sense that the compress sound like there is no tomorrow. But so many people find them adequate because they don't know better or they simply seek some ambient music.

I have huge pro speakers from Danley Soundlabs (custom made wood finish) that have great music qualities in them that I actually enjoy. Before that I had B&W 800Ds (that I also loved) but after being spoiled repeatedly from a friends hugely expensive JBLs Synthesis system I went to Danley since it is the only thing that offers such huge dynamics and uncompressed sound. They don't simply have headroom, they can literally blow your ears at 136db peak each. I use 3 of them as my LCRs.

And you don't need all this capacity for volume output - you need it for true dynamics. It is amazing to play a movie at true reference levels and be able to hear every single detail on quiet passages (like small craks, bugs, distant sounds, air) at 65-75db while a sudden explosion can occur with bass peaking at 115 db at your seat.

The same is true for music. There are for example certain symphonic pieces that besides experiencing them live it is extremely hard to have the same dynamics at home unless you have big dynamic speakers. After experiencing such a thing it is hard not to be strict with any gimmick that tries to defy the laws of physics.
 
I have huge pro speakers from Danley Soundlabs (custom made wood finish) that have great music qualities in them that I actually enjoy. Before that I had B&W 800Ds (that I also loved) but after being spoiled repeatedly from a friends hugely expensive JBLs Synthesis system I went to Danley since it is the only thing that offers such huge dynamics and uncompressed sound. They don't simply have headroom, they can literally blow your ears at 136db peak each. I use 3 of them as my LCRs.

And you don't need all this capacity for volume output - you need it for true dynamics. It is amazing to play a movie at true reference levels and be able to hear every single detail on quiet passages (like small craks, bugs, distant sounds, air) at 65-75db while a sudden explosion can occur with bass peaking at 115 db at your seat.

The same is true for music. There are for example certain symphonic pieces that besides experiencing them live it is extremely hard to have the same dynamics at home unless you have big dynamic speakers. After experiencing such a thing it is hard not to be strict with any gimmick that tries to defy the laws of physics.

Which Danley models did you get? I also like horn speakers. Does the GR in your nickname refer to Greece by any chance?
 
We're buying a house soon, I'm gonna ask my lender if they can fit this into my mortgage ASAP!
 
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