Overcrowded spectrum help

A

alxlwson

You Know Where I Live
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
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So, been having serious wireless issues the last two weeks. There has been a lot of new Wi-Fi routers from Spectrum popping up in the neighborhood lately and they are all juiced to the max.
Getting a lot of disconnects, slow speed, etc...

I've tried the Powerline adapters, and it's very erratic.

I currently have a no frills Unifi AP. I'm thinking of going with an AC model that supports mimo. Sadly, most of the entertainment devices don't support 5GHz, so I'm having to think outside the box.

What I would like to do is to put a switch down with the entertainment center. Hardwire the TV, the DirecTV box, XBone, and the HTPC laptop. I would then like to use a wireless bridge from the switch to the AP upstairs in the office.

Does anyone have any suggestions on gear, or a better way to do this? I rent currently, so I'm not wanting to climb in the attic for drops. Too much work for only being here another year or so.

Thanks!

Screenshot_20171225-185106.jpg
 
I've done basically what you're considering, except I just used two routers. Buy two routers with 5 ghz band support and use one as your main router and one as a WiFi bridge on the 5 ghz radio. Anything you can reprogram with DD-WRT oughta support this, even if native firmwares do not. Plug everything in hardwire to the bridge, and obviously disable the bridge's actual WAN routing functionality and DHCP server.

Beyond that, the best 'alternative wire to CAT5' I've used are these - https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Bonded-Ethernet-Adapter-ECB6200K02/dp/B013J7O3X0 - ethernet over coax adapters. Beware though, though they can normally coexist with regular cable signals, they do have problems with some satellite providers so you'd want to check that since you're DirecTV.
 
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I'd second SinsterDei - get a handful of 5Ghz bridges, get off that crowded 2.4G spectrum.

You can use most routers as just WiFi bridges. Unifi AC APs will allow you to go into bridge mode, as will most other decent APs.
 
Brian_B said:
I'd second SinsterDei - get a handful of 5Ghz bridges, get off that crowded 2.4G spectrum.

You can use most routers as just WiFi bridges. Unifi AC APs will allow you to go into bridge mode, as will most other decent APs.
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That's been my thought as well.
 
If your AP is Prism2, then you're the one who's causing all of the issues.... Turn off HT40 as it's not really worth much in 2.4ghz, and then stick to the 1,6, or 11 channel reuse like everyone else has. Just because there are 3 APs on channel 11 doesn't necessarily mean it won't work. If the actual air time on those devices are low, then there should still be free bandwidth to make stuff work. Attempting to clobber more than half of the available spectrum by using HT40 is silly because instead of having to worry about 3 APs it's now worrying about 7. You will actually see an increase in bandwidth dropping down to HT20, that's almost guaranteed.
 
bman212121 said:
If your AP is Prism2, then you're the one who's causing all of the issues.... Turn off HT40 as it's not really worth much in 2.4ghz, and then stick to the 1,6, or 11 channel reuse like everyone else has. Just because there are 3 APs on channel 11 doesn't necessarily mean it won't work. If the actual air time on those devices are low, then there should still be free bandwidth to make stuff work. Attempting to clobber more than half of the available spectrum by using HT40 is silly because instead of having to worry about 3 APs it's now worrying about 7. You will actually see an increase in bandwidth dropping down to HT20, that's almost guaranteed.
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That was my thought as well. I enabled HT40 after all the issues started, trying everything to resolve some of the issues.
There are more AP's, but only this many show at a time. Wait for refresh, and another 6 or so show up.
 
How is the 5ghz then? A wifi bridge would probably be your best bet, but since more and more APs have 5ghz I wouldn't guarantee that's fool proof either. AC is trying to do the same to 5ghz that happened in 2.4, you can use 80mhz channels, and there are provisions for 160mhz channels. (I don't know of anything capable of using it yet though) Original 802.11b was designed around 5mhz channels, hence why there are channels 1 - 13.

For a wireless bridge you don't need much, and you can probably just point 2 of almost anything at each other and turn the power down some. You're basically just trying to go through the floor. For a bridge directional antennas would actually be preferred, but definitely not necessary. It's not that your APs are interfering with others, but if you use something like a parabolic dish, your AP might not see other APs because it can only pick up signal inside of a small area. With the normal omnidirectional antennas your sending and receiving in all directions so you'll pick up signal from everywhere.
 
5GHz looks pretty good. Not going to use any dish's or cannons.

Screenshot_20171226-143631.jpg
 
Someone mentioned MoCA with op having DirecTV this is still an option but they will need to make sure they use non-interferring frequency ranges (look for DECA adapters supporting MOCA standard. Edit: actually it may depend on what DTV equipment op has. hmm.
 
Beyond Moca and powerline, there's also ethernet extenders that just work over plain telephone wire using vdsl. I've used the ones from netsys-direct to get 100Mb full-duplex over pots wire before. (y)
 
No moca for me. The cable internet service and the DTV are on two separate runs.

I've ordered a few pieces of gear, gonna see how it all works out.

New version of unifi AC Lite, supports 802.3af/a
Unifi 8port 60w PoE switch us-8-60w
Unifi G3 camera
Pair of ubiquity airGateway LR's.

Going to be swapping the AP out with the AC-Lite. Also swapping out the unmanaged 8port Cisco GbE switch with the ubiquiti.
Entertainment center will be getting the Cisco switch to hardwire everything in to. I will then use one of the airGateway units, plug into that Cisco switch, and set it up to be a bridge.
Also, the G3 camera is going up, upstairs on the front of the place. Will also be using a second airGateway to turn the G3 into a wireless camera. Will have the ubiquiti nvr software running on my T30, to a WD perp.

I have pretty good hopes that this will do what I need it to do.
 
If the cable internet and dtv are on separate runs, moca would work even better. There doesn't have to be any signal on the cable for the units to work--just a coax between both units.
 
SamirD said:
If the cable internet and dtv are on separate runs, moca would work even better. There doesn't have to be any signal on the cable for the units to work--just a coax between both units.
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Right, I get that. However, the coax in the office feeds the cable modem. The coax at the entertainment center feeds the DTV box. I am not using a splitter outside. They each have a dedicated feed from their respective source. There is no physical connection between the two locations
 
alxlwson said:
Right, I get that. However, the coax in the office feeds the cable modem. The coax at the entertainment center feeds the DTV box. I am not using a splitter outside. They each have a dedicated feed from their respective source. There is no physical connection between the two locations
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Gotcha, makes sense now.

I think your wifi setup should solve the issue, but in case you still want a wired connection, you can always just use a deca adapter on the dtv coax segment and then connect it via an ethernet patch cable to moca adapters on the cable coax segment. Some more moving parts, but it should still work pretty stable if all the segments do.
 
Use 5Ghz for your gizmos that can. Don't be afraid to try channels other then 1, 6, 11. Keep in mind you are competing with all of the appliance gizmos in your area, not just the APs. If your neighbor running MotorolaAP2 is supporting 2 phones, a laptop, a tablet, a smart TV and several IOT things, your stuff has to wait its turn to find clear ether. Switching to a less common channel might just help.

All of these ISPs forcing us to support their build out of subscriber only WiFi for the masses is screwing up normal in house WiFi for many of us.
 
Dead Parrot said:
All of these ISPs forcing us to support their build out of subscriber only WiFi for the masses is screwing up normal in house WiFi for many of us.
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FINALLY!! SOMEONE ELSE GETS THIS!!!

We have over 100 APs visible in our spectrum at our apartment, and our 2.4 is literally useless because of all the xfinity forced APs. We got our own equipment to prevent the additional APs mucking up the airwaves, but when most of our neighbors have the stock equipment and all those extra APs, the airwaves are absolutely jam-packed with signals screaming all the time. If we didn't have almost everything wired, this would be an issue, but it really makes me want to coat the walls with AL foil to just block all those other signals.
 
videobruce said:
Where did you get that program from??

.
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kinda looks like InSSIDer ?

or i think there is an android app called wifi something. the screenshot says wifi analyzer but not sure thats the program name. ive def. used an app that looks similar to this that is called "Wifi Analyzer" by Kevin Yuan
 
alxlwson said:
Right, I get that. However, the coax in the office feeds the cable modem. The coax at the entertainment center feeds the DTV box. I am not using a splitter outside. They each have a dedicated feed from their respective source. There is no physical connection between the two locations
Click to expand...

Switch to channels like 15 / 16. That's what we do sometimes. Most of the time you just need to change the region on both the router and the machines.

Works pretty well, but not exactly the best idea. Unfortunately due to congestion from neighbors you're fairly hosed. Hardwire or get into unused spectrum.

Ubiquiti has some higher end stuff that can help. But it's pricey.
 
Kwaz said:
Switch to channels like 15 / 16. That's what we do sometimes. Most of the time you just need to change the region on both the router and the machines.

Works pretty well, but not exactly the best idea. Unfortunately due to congestion from neighbors you're fairly hosed. Hardwire or get into unused spectrum.

Ubiquiti has some higher end stuff that can help. But it's pricey.
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I bought a bunch of Ubiquiti gear.
Sounds like you didn't read whole thread.


videobruce It is called WifiAnalyzer. It's a great app, been using it for YEARS.
 
alxlwson said:
I bought a bunch of Ubiquiti gear.
Sounds like you didn't read whole thread.


videobruce It is called WifiAnalyzer. It's a great app, been using it for YEARS.
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I did Alx!

There's a specific subset of Ubiquiti gear that uses a special spectrum they either bought or licensed. It's only available on certain products. I don't remember which. It isn't the normal pro-sumer stuff they sell.

Look at changing the region. You're in Japan right? :rolleyes:
 
Just, uh, speak japanese when the FCC comes over for a visit lol. It does suck we cant use channel 14+ here... 5GHz is a bit better but now even that is starting to get congested as ISPs update their rented gateways.
 
Kwaz said:
I did Alx!

There's a specific subset of Ubiquiti gear that uses a special spectrum they either bought or licensed. It's only available on certain products. I don't remember which. It isn't the normal pro-sumer stuff they sell.

Look at changing the region. You're in Japan right? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. Licensed spectrum gear is OUTRAGEOUS, plus the cost of the license.
I think I'll be ok with the 5GHz for at least a couple years. The FCC is gonna have to open up some more pub frequency in the next few years. There is a problem brewing.
 
SamirD said:
FINALLY!! SOMEONE ELSE GETS THIS!!!

We have over 100 APs visible in our spectrum at our apartment, and our 2.4 is literally useless because of all the xfinity forced APs. We got our own equipment to prevent the additional APs mucking up the airwaves, but when most of our neighbors have the stock equipment and all those extra APs, the airwaves are absolutely jam-packed with signals screaming all the time. If we didn't have almost everything wired, this would be an issue, but it really makes me want to coat the walls with AL foil to just block all those other signals.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people knew that was coming already. And it's only going to get worse. I'm on the fence as to whether or not commercial should even be allowed to use public wifi. The entire point of companies buying spectrum is that it is dedicated to them to serve their customers. This isn't just a cable provider issue, a lot of the cell companies want to get this implemented as well. Why spend billions buying more spectrum when you can offload most of your traffic on the end user's wifi? And make them pay for it as well? If Comcast, Charter, Verizon, AT&T, or other wants to deploy 10's of thousands of devices I really think they should be using their own spectrum to do it. Like I said before pretty soon 5ghz is going to be a mess like 2.4ghz because everyone will require 160mhz wide channels just because. We should really be going the opposite direction and figuring out how to carve more channels out of the same amount of spectrum, but still providing the same amount of bandwidth. If there was a greater push for 4+ antennas, you can get the same amount of bandwidth from a 4 x 4 40mhz setup as you would from a 2 x 2 80mhz wide channel, but then you could have twice as many channels in an area.
 
Who ever is on Channel 9 is causing more problems than they are solving by causing more cross talk.
 
bman212121 said:
I think a lot of people knew that was coming already. And it's only going to get worse. I'm on the fence as to whether or not commercial should even be allowed to use public wifi. The entire point of companies buying spectrum is that it is dedicated to them to serve their customers. This isn't just a cable provider issue, a lot of the cell companies want to get this implemented as well. Why spend billions buying more spectrum when you can offload most of your traffic on the end user's wifi? And make them pay for it as well? If Comcast, Charter, Verizon, AT&T, or other wants to deploy 10's of thousands of devices I really think they should be using their own spectrum to do it. Like I said before pretty soon 5ghz is going to be a mess like 2.4ghz because everyone will require 160mhz wide channels just because. We should really be going the opposite direction and figuring out how to carve more channels out of the same amount of spectrum, but still providing the same amount of bandwidth. If there was a greater push for 4+ antennas, you can get the same amount of bandwidth from a 4 x 4 40mhz setup as you would from a 2 x 2 80mhz wide channel, but then you could have twice as many channels in an area.
Click to expand...
I think the main problem in this is the 'piggybacking' using customer's infrastructure without their consent. Technically, there is additional power used for these and the customer is paying for that for a company to benefit. Sure it's in the terms of service agreement buried somewhere and you can go to the bought and paid court of arbitration if you want to fight it, but this is a business ethics breech, plain and simple. If I wanted my own service to be compromised by a public hotspot, I should be informed of the caveats and able to make a choice, not have it rammed down my throat (or in this case, blasted into the air).

It's the ignorance and laziness of the average person that these companies are preying on, and what's really alarming about this techniques is this is exactly what companies (and governments) do in the third world. I don't want to deal with third world problems here in the first world--that's why my father immigrated in the first place.
 
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