A Safe Snowy Haven No Doubt

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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May 18, 1997
Messages
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Love him or hate him, Snowden likely knows a thing or two about securing your data. I will be interested to hear feedback from [H]'ers that using Haven in any capacity and what exactly those usage models are. Personal security device or surveillance system for recording everything around the device without anyone knowing?

Check out the video.

Haven is for people who need a way to protect their personal spaces and possessions without compromising their own privacy. It is an Android application that leverages on-device sensors to provide monitoring and protection of physical spaces. Haven turns any Android phone into a motion, sound, vibration and light detector, watching for unexpected guests and unwanted intruders. We designed Haven for investigative journalists, human rights defenders, and people at risk of forced disappearance to create a new kind of herd immunity. By combining the array of sensors found in any smartphone, with the world’s most secure communications technologies, like Signal and Tor, Haven prevents the worst kind of people from silencing citizens without getting caught in the act.
 
Looked at it. My spare android is broken, and no real need for it.

IF cops/gov/spys breaks in my house, they would die of boredom. lol


and Snowden needs to be hanged, drawn and quartered.
 
I don't see it on GooglePlay and there is already a different app called Haven too.
 
I actually find this stuff very interesting, I plan on trying it and think it's a great idea.

Even if you think it's not an issue now, as we progress into the future privacy is going to become more and more of an issue.
 
I think it is a very interesting idea and I am certainly tempted to take a few of the spare android devices I have laying around and testing it out. I just haven't thought of a good use for it yet.
 
Master_shake_ said:
nah don't think so.

the people who abused it should be but not him.

sounds like a great way to keep cell phones out of the land fill.
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Not for the reveal, it is for defecting to Russia they he need execution. And make no mistake, that is what he has done. He could have (most probably) stayed right here, and Bama would patted on the head and released him after maybe a year in club fed.
 
Looks like an excellent app for the feds to perform even more off-band monitoring of the inside of your home.
 
Everyone will fall for the ruse now that Admiral Ackbar isn't around to warn them.....
 
A cell phone can do a lot of things but none of them well.
Pictures and video? Sub par consumer level at best regardless of the pixel density. Optics are always poor.
GPS Meh, better than nothing.
A clock? Sure carry a brick around in your pocket instead of a wrist watch. Oh, don't forget to charge it.
PHONE? Hopefully there is a tower nearby.
SMS Text? Sure, but trying to poke the text into a touch screen, and then have auto correct mangle your words so you come
off sounding like a toothless pirate.
Sound quality? Makes me pine for the days of AM radio.
 
Yeahhhhh Snowden's in Russia right. Maybe a little pressure from his hosts to produce something to spy on US and world users? No way I would install this, remember Kaspersky?
 
Dr. Righteous said:
A cell phone can do a lot of things but none of them well.
Pictures and video? Sub par consumer level at best regardless of the pixel density. Optics are always poor.
GPS Meh, better than nothing.
A clock? Sure carry a brick around in your pocket instead of a wrist watch. Oh, don't forget to charge it.
PHONE? Hopefully there is a tower nearby.
SMS Text? Sure, but trying to poke the text into a touch screen, and then have auto correct mangle your words so you come
off sounding like a toothless pirate.
Sound quality? Makes me pine for the days of AM radio.
Click to expand...

Pictures: For most consumer uses modern phones are perfectly fine for the job. Obviously they're not going to match up to pro-sumer or professional grade devices, but the vast majority of people have no need for those.
GPS: Really don't see how they're any worse than most dedicated GPS devices. Both are prone to the same faults.
Clock: Watches suck. I've never liked wearing them.
Texting: I dislike typing on touchscreens, never have gotten the hang of it, but even I don't have that much trouble. Autocorrect rarely gives me trouble because I actually pay attention to what I type, people rely far too much on predictive text instead of looking at what they're doing.
Sound quality: As with the cameras, sound is fine for what most people need. And if you're comparing it to AM Radio you need your ears checked.
 
NoOther said:
I don't really see why. I haven't seen anything about his ability to secure data, only his ability to copy off data he had access to as a system admin and thus utterly fail at performing his actual job. I wouldn't trust anything he tried to push out.
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OK, thanks for letting us know that.
 
octane said:
Even if you think it's not an issue now, as we progress into the future privacy is going to become more and more of an issue.
Click to expand...


we have almost none now, if we even have any left at all. but soon there will be none, so then you have nothing to worry about !!
 
lcpiper said:
Wait, if Snowden was an IA contractor then maybe so, but that's not what I understood from his bio. My understanding was that he was just a Sysad type like myself. I think you are giving him too much credit.
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OK, thanks for letting us know that. So you are suggesting he just knows one thing instead of two?
 
Dr. Righteous said:
A cell phone can do a lot of things but none of them well.
Pictures and video? Sub par consumer level at best regardless of the pixel density. Optics are always poor.
GPS Meh, better than nothing.
A clock? Sure carry a brick around in your pocket instead of a wrist watch. Oh, don't forget to charge it.
PHONE? Hopefully there is a tower nearby.
SMS Text? Sure, but trying to poke the text into a touch screen, and then have auto correct mangle your words so you come
off sounding like a toothless pirate.
Sound quality? Makes me pine for the days of AM radio.
Click to expand...

Wish we could Dislike posts around here. This is one of the most asinine things I think I've read on this forum. Everything about it is wrong, flat out.
 
It sounds like most of you don't understand the positive implications this tool has.

Even if this ends up not being the best in the world, it will probably inspire others to come up with similar tools.

This tool serves an area previously under-served, those that get midnight raided. If you think this shit isn't where you live, think again. There are too many examples of people disappearing and never returning, and this shit has to stop. The reasoning is irrelevant, personal security is paramount.
 
BloodyIron said:
It sounds like most of you don't understand the positive implications this tool has.

Even if this ends up not being the best in the world, it will probably inspire others to come up with similar tools.

This tool serves an area previously under-served, those that get midnight raided. If you think this shit isn't where you live, think again. There are too many examples of people disappearing and never returning, and this shit has to stop. The reasoning is irrelevant, personal security is paramount.
Click to expand...

I understand fully the implications of this device, especially now that they are making it that much easier for people who want to snag either more information about you, or your physical self by enabling them to capture information about everything around you even more easily. The negative implications for this technology seem to be more powerful than the positive ones. What exactly will you do with the information provided? Will you be able to avoid being snatched? Will it magically call someone to your rescue? Snatch operations tend to be very focused, very quick, and in areas that limit your response options. Nothing this app will tell you about your environment is going to improve your chances in that scenario. The best way to avoid those situations is education on avoidance, not digital information. The way this may help with the education portion is to record everything that happens around you when you do get snatched and hopefully that information gets sent somewhere before your phone is confiscated and gives them some more information to go off of. I can see this potentially helping the police state by charting crimes more effectively, that is if the information can be sent in time and not destroyed. But already they can use various tools to get location information from a phone. As a personal safety feature though, I just don't see how this would help.
 
I'm not going to read your wall of text. If you can't be assed to parse your text, I won't be assed to read it.

NoOther said:
I understand fully the implications of this device, especially now that they are making it that much easier for people who want to snag either more information about you, or your physical self by enabling them to capture information about everything around you even more easily. The negative implications for this technology seem to be more powerful than the positive ones. What exactly will you do with the information provided? Will you be able to avoid being snatched? Will it magically call someone to your rescue? Snatch operations tend to be very focused, very quick, and in areas that limit your response options. Nothing this app will tell you about your environment is going to improve your chances in that scenario. The best way to avoid those situations is education on avoidance, not digital information. The way this may help with the education portion is to record everything that happens around you when you do get snatched and hopefully that information gets sent somewhere before your phone is confiscated and gives them some more information to go off of. I can see this potentially helping the police state by charting crimes more effectively, that is if the information can be sent in time and not destroyed. But already they can use various tools to get location information from a phone. As a personal safety feature though, I just don't see how this would help.
Click to expand...
 
BloodyIron said:
I'm not going to read your wall of text. If you can't be assed to parse your text, I won't be assed to read it.
Click to expand...

Tough luck then kid. That is probably why you think this is such a great idea, because you can't be bothered reading anything with a lot of research. :rolleyes:
 
BloodyIron said:
It sounds like most of you don't understand the positive implications this tool has.

Even if this ends up not being the best in the world, it will probably inspire others to come up with similar tools.

This tool serves an area previously under-served, those that get midnight raided. If you think this shit isn't where you live, think again. There are too many examples of people disappearing and never returning, and this shit has to stop. The reasoning is irrelevant, personal security is paramount.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the negative implications this tool has. If you don't think this thing has a back door then you're probably wrong.
 
realdeadman said:
Not for the reveal, it is for defecting to Russia they he need execution. And make no mistake, that is what he has done. He could have (most probably) stayed right here, and Bama would patted on the head and released him after maybe a year in club fed.
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Snowden didn't defect to Russia. Snowden didn't have any intention of staying in Russia at all. Snowden is in Russia because Obama was (thankfully) a moron and revoked Snowden's passport while Snowden was trying to catch a connecting flight through Moscow, on his way to Ecuador, where he was going to try to seek asylum. After Obama revoked Snowden's passport, which occurred just before Snowden landed in Moscow for his connecting flight, Snowden was unable to travel any further, due to not having a valid passport. And It is impossible for Russia to hand Snowden over to the US, because Russia has no extradition treaty with the US. So, Obama, in his emotional impulsiveness, ended up assuring Snowden's safety in Russia, and his inability to leave Russia.

Ecuador does have an extradition treaty with the US, and so it might have been possible for the US gov't to get Snowden from Ecuador, had Snowden been allowed to continue on his flight plan. Although, Ecuador might have accepted Snowden's asylum request.

Another thing that might have happened is the US could have attempted to force the landing of the plane Snowden would have been on, as the US did when it suspected Snowden to be on Bolivian president Evo Morales' plane.


Aside from the fact that Snowden has not defected to Russia, and had no intention of being in Russia other than to make a plane transfer in Moscow, Snowden is a hero and has done a tremendous service to all people in the world. Had Snowden not leaked what he did, the USA would be committing even graver offences against everyone in the world, since it would feel more empowered and unchallenged if nobody was aware of what the US is doing, and if people were speaking out about it, criticizing it, and calling for restraint against all that type of misconduct. Even if Snowden had planned to live in Moscow after these leaks, his action would still be noble and essential, and deserving of respect from all people.
 
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Delicieuxz said:
Snowden didn't defect to Russia. Snowden didn't have any intention of staying in Russia at all. Snowden is in Russia because Obama was (thankfully) a moron and revoked Snowden's passport while Snowden was trying to catch a connecting flight through Moscow, on his way to Ecuador, where he was going to try to seek asylum. After Obama revoked Snowden's passport, which occurred just before Snowden landed in Moscow for his connecting flight, Snowden was unable to travel any further, due to not having a valid passport. And It is impossible for Russia to hand Snowden over to the US, because Russia has no extradition treaty with the US. So, Obama, in his emotional impulsiveness, ended up assuring Snowden's safety in Russia, and his inability to leave Russia.
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Actually not having an extradition treaty with a country does not prevent that country from returning someone. The US and Russia have sent criminals back before. The extradition treaties are just prearranged agreements to return criminals. Without the treaties it just takes cooperation and negotiation.

Delicieuxz said:
Aside from the fact that Snowden has not defected to Russia, and had no intention of being in Russia other than to make a plane transfer in Moscow, Snowden is a hero and has done a tremendous service to all people in the world. Had Snowden not leaked what he did, the USA would be committing even graver offences against everyone in the world, since it would feel more empowered and unchallenged if nobody was aware of what the US is doing, and if people were speaking out about it, criticizing it, and calling for restraint against all that type of misconduct. Even if Snowden had planned to live in Moscow after these leaks, his action would still be noble and essential, and deserving of respect from all people.
Click to expand...

Completely disagree. Snowden is no hero and should not be looked on as a hero either. You are only looking at the small impact of what he did. He did not selectively pick out material and take it. He stole as much information as he could whether it was harmful or not. There was a bunch of information he stole that contain information vital to the country and was not invading anyone's privacy. That is pure treasonous activity. Plus there is a whole system for whistle blowing within the government, he could have followed that protocol, but he did not. Also, exactly what makes him a hero here? Is anyone better off now with the information? Has it actually changed anything at all? No. So what exactly was the net outcome? Nothing.

Furthermore, it is merely opinion that the United States was harming people, there is no evidence of them actually harming anyone. You say committing graver offenses, that implies that there were offenses in the first place. Pray tell which laws were broken and when was anyone tried for breaking said laws? The only offense truly committed was Snowden's treason. There is so much more I could say about the whole affair, but Snowden is truly about as far as you can get from a hero.
 
NoOther said:
Completely disagree. Snowden is no hero and should not be looked on as a hero either. You are only looking at the small impact of what he did. He did not selectively pick out material and take it. He stole as much information as he could whether it was harmful or not. There was a bunch of information he stole that contain information vital to the country and was not invading anyone's privacy. That is pure treasonous activity. Plus there is a whole system for whistle blowing within the government, he could have followed that protocol, but he did not. Also, exactly what makes him a hero here? Is anyone better off now with the information? Has it actually changed anything at all? No. So what exactly was the net outcome? Nothing.

Furthermore, it is merely opinion that the United States was harming people, there is no evidence of them actually harming anyone. You say committing graver offenses, that implies that there were offenses in the first place. Pray tell which laws were broken and when was anyone tried for breaking said laws? The only offense truly committed was Snowden's treason. There is so much more I could say about the whole affair, but Snowden is truly about as far as you can get from a hero.
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I did not mean offence as in a legal offence, but as in a moral offences. That said, Snowden revealed the NSA's warrantless surveillance and data-gathering of US citizens, which was ruled to be illegal. So, the NSA was committing legal offences, as well.

Snowden's impact is by no means small. The awareness his actions have brought, the opportunity for individuals, companies, and other countries to protect themselves better thanks to that awareness, has already been invaluable. The social and technological developments that stem from that awareness will continue to be invaluable, as will be the increased public awareness of the truth regarding what the US gov't is and does, and that it lies through its teeth as standard practice, while disregarding any personal interests that its citizens have.
 
Delicieuxz said:
I did not mean offence as in a legal offence, but as in a moral offences. That said, Snowden revealed the NSA's warrantless surveillance and data-gathering of US citizens, which was ruled to be illegal. So, the NSA was committing legal offences, as well.
Click to expand...

Was it? So then the NSA was punished for it? No? Interesting. So surely people lose their jobs because it was illegal? No...oh. So exactly how was it illegal again? In fact, It was later somewhat legitimized by Obama, when he created a new program and then declared the other program grandfathered in. Also the court that deemed it was "illegal" stipulated that it really didn't know what to do about it and more or less had deemed the process they used at the time as illegal.

So now instead of the government collecting the bulk of the data, it is collected by the Telecoms and the government still has access anytime they want provided they provide proof, proof that only the FISA court sees. The same FISA court that approved the program to begin with...

Delicieuxz said:
Snowden's impact is by no means small. The awareness his actions have brought, the opportunity for individuals, companies, and other countries to protect themselves better thanks to that awareness, has already been invaluable. The social and technological developments that stem from that awareness will continue to be invaluable, as will be the increased public awareness of the truth regarding what the US gov't is and does, and that it lies through its teeth as standard practice, while disregarding any personal interests that its citizens have.
Click to expand...

Exactly what did his actions bring? Nothing that wasn't already out there. NSA was not collecting this information in a vacuum, the information was already being collected, by the telecomm agencies. Guess what? It is still being collected. And as far as your "awareness", you are truly naive. We have far more collection of data going on now than we ever had before. Now everyone is collecting your information. Governments at all levels collect it, businesses collect it, schools collect it, your employer collects it, everyone is collecting information now. And not only are they collecting it, now it is getting sold all over the place.

As far as Snowden making people aware that the government lies is actually false. This wasn't a case of the government lying, it is a case of the government not revealing certain of its operations. And newsflash, that is what all governments do, its part of their operation. And newsflash, they aren't the only ones that do that, so do schools, businesses, employers, employees, spouses, friends, etc.

Also the fact that you assert that the government was doing this while disregarding any personal interested of its citizens is also false. Most of the reason they gathered the data was to protect citizens, something that was very much in their personal interests.

Whether what they did is right or not is very much up for debate. Personally, I am not for it, but your statements don't reflect the complexity of the situation, nor do they really account for everything that Snowden truly did, which was just pure treason.
 
NoOther said:
Was it? So then the NSA was punished for it? No? Interesting. So surely people lose their jobs because it was illegal? No...oh. So exactly how was it illegal again? In fact, It was later somewhat legitimized by Obama, when he created a new program and then declared the other program grandfathered in. Also the court that deemed it was "illegal" stipulated that it really didn't know what to do about it and more or less had deemed the process they used at the time as illegal.

So now instead of the government collecting the bulk of the data, it is collected by the Telecoms and the government still has access anytime they want provided they provide proof, proof that only the FISA court sees. The same FISA court that approved the program to begin with...
Click to expand...

You're arguing that because people didn't get punished, it wasn't illegal. That's not how legal / illegal works, and it only means that the US gov't system is corrupt and turns a blind eye to its own offences.

So, anyway, yeah, it was ruled to be illegal. You asked, you got an answer. I don't care for your goalpost moving, especially since as I stated my use of "offence" was primarily meant to indicate the Snowden leaks revealed moral offences being committed by the US gov't. But at the same time, yes, there were legal offences, as well. Rationalizing it doesn't change that fact.

There's probably tons of other illegal stuff to be found from the Snowden leaks. For example, it was illegal for the US to wiretap Angela Merkel's phone:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html

And the NSA reportedly broke the law thousands of times by violating privacy rules:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...10e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html

Just because the NSA doesn't get prosecuted doesn't mean that what it's doing is legitimate. There is a severe lack of accountability and even application of the law in the US, especially when it comes to the government. The US gov't only prosecutes when it serves some ideological goal or vendetta. Often, the US government chooses to just ignore the law, like when Obama said of prosecuting Bush for what were indisputably illegal actions that he preferred to look forward, and not backwards. I'm sure that many other criminals wish they could also avoid the law simply by saying the same thing.

Exactly what did his actions bring? Nothing that wasn't already out there. NSA was not collecting this information in a vacuum, the information was already being collected, by the telecomm agencies. Guess what? It is still being collected. And as far as your "awareness", you are truly naive. We have far more collection of data going on now than we ever had before. Now everyone is collecting your information. Governments at all levels collect it, businesses collect it, schools collect it, your employer collects it, everyone is collecting information now. And not only are they collecting it, now it is getting sold all over the place.

As far as Snowden making people aware that the government lies is actually false. This wasn't a case of the government lying, it is a case of the government not revealing certain of its operations. And newsflash, that is what all governments do, its part of their operation. And newsflash, they aren't the only ones that do that, so do schools, businesses, employers, employees, spouses, friends, etc.

Also the fact that you assert that the government was doing this while disregarding any personal interested of its citizens is also false. Most of the reason they gathered the data was to protect citizens, something that was very much in their personal interests.

Whether what they did is right or not is very much up for debate. Personally, I am not for it, but your statements don't reflect the complexity of the situation, nor do they really account for everything that Snowden truly did, which was just pure treason.
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Snowden's have undeniably resulted in a massive awareness increases, of all sorts.

http://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/#qB0jZrK73Pqd
https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-07-09/17-disturbing-things-snowden-has-taught-us-so-far
bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23123964
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/30/nsa-leaks-us-bugging-european-allies
http://www.zdnet.com/article/legal-loopholes-unrestrained-nsa-surveillance-on-americans/

The revelation of PRISM on its own was humongous and has resulted in many major tech companies improving their security, and many people re-evaluating which companies they're willing to let their data pass through the servers of. It has also resulted in many countries being able to better secure themselves against the US, which is a good thing, and given them the fodder to rebuff US state hypocrisy and arrogance, which also is a good thing.

The revelations that the US was wiretapping Angela Merkel's phone surely was important to the German government, as would have been the details that the US is hacking thousands of Chinese companies.

A lot of what the public now expects to be common practice by the US and other governments was, before the Snowden leaks, regarded as conspiracy theory, and not easily entertained in online discussions without seeing the ideas and claims mocked. So, the leaks have certainly transformed and matured public perception.

And there are still new revelations being discovered from his leaks.

Also the fact that you assert that the government was doing this while disregarding any personal interested of its citizens is also false. Most of the reason they gathered the data was to protect citizens, something that was very much in their personal interests.
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Please, spare us the government propaganda. 'The government invades your privacy without your permission and lies to you while doing things you don't want them to to keep you safe and for your own good' is ridiculous BS, not even worth humouring. The mindset of those that think way while working in those programs is lowest-common-denominator, Us vs Them thinking, which is far more emotion, inferiority complex, and paranoia driven than sound judgment-driven.


The Snowden leaks have been huge, in the information they have brought to light, in the response they have caused in technology, and in the perception calibration they've triggered among US citizens and people all around the world regarding the US government and cyber-espionage. To deny that is to be in denial. And to argue against that is to play apologist for conduct which is, at its core, unscrupulous.
 
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All he did was damage national reputation and most possibly security.

Nothing much changed. As the kids say today, some companies and ppl got "woke" lol

But one way or another, if someone wants your info, they will get it. Sure, no reason to make it easy, but it is a losing battle for now.

Anyone who did even the small research KNEW the gov was listening to EVERY digital and phone ever. I knew since the early 1990's

Heck, Tom Clancy (and other authors) books have some "right next to the money" descriptions of the spy equipment used for internet/telecom snooping.

Willing or not, the Russians ARE debriefing him and have wrung every secret they can out of him.

He has a nice Russian job, and he will have a Russian passport sometime this year. He paid for it with USA secrets, willing or not.

Even if he feared (with reason probably) what the spys would do to him, he could have gotten a different flight, or waited til he was in a "safe" country to begin his treason.

For putting himself in that position, death.
 
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Point me to the part where I said it was infallible, or had no backdoor. Please.

Until then, stop putting words in my mouth.

Rahh said:
I don't think you understand the negative implications this tool has. If you don't think this thing has a back door then you're probably wrong.
Click to expand...
 
BloodyIron said:
Point me to the part where I said it was infallible, or had no backdoor. Please.

Until then, stop putting words in my mouth.
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Hypocrite much? There's a reason you're always on defense in these forums.
 
Derangel said:
Sound quality: As with the cameras, sound is fine for what most people need. And if you're comparing it to AM Radio you need your ears checked.
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AM radio's audio bandwidth stop at 5Khz. But compared to the tinny sound of cell phone speakers; Blah.
 
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