Why Hasn’t the Year of the Linux Desktop Happened Yet?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just finished installing, not a single issue. When typing in the username everytime I entered a capital I saw a cross indicating that, obviously, capitals are not allowed - Fairly self explanatory and I carried on with the install process.

Once installed the updater prompted me that there were updates to install. I began installing them, it takes a while so Solus logged me out and put the screen to sleep, upon waking up again I logged back in and the installer was still there working just fine.

[EDIT] Screenshots coming, so far the updater is excellent.
 
You saw a cross indicating that "something" about the username you had entered was inadmissible. It gave you absolutely no clue as to what, when it would have been trivial to simply implement a tooltip or message stating what you had done that was incorrect. (As in fact, the SAME INSTALLER does on the previous screen, when you name the system.)

These are computers, it's not a game of family fortunes.

Also you can, by all means, post screenshots of your machine updated. I have since reinstalled and also updated, and on the second attempt, it worked. I could provide exactly the same screenshots, but that still doesn't take anything away from the fact that my first install of the OS committed "suicide by update".

But no, of course, if you've not had a problem then clearly the entire OS is flawless, and any problem anyone else had must be their fault and theirs alone because god forbid anything be contrary to your experience.
 
CombatChrisNC said:
Have I missed it in my skin of this thread?

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
Click to expand...

I've had way more issues with Windows 10 than I've had with Linux (I dual boot Win 10 and Linux). It seem that just about every major update with Windows 10 screws something up, boot loops, update failures, trashing device drivers, etc. With Linux, I've only had an issues with updating the NVidia graphics driver. In general, Win 10 has been much more of a pain than Linux has for me. Note, the majority of the applications I use are available under both OSes, jEdit, Libre Office, Firefox (now quantum version), Thunderbird, g++, Octave, Eclipse, bash, etc. I now only keep Windows 10 for gaming and for the occasional Photoshop session.
 
GlacierNine said:
You saw a cross indicating that "something" about the username you had entered was inadmissible. It gave you absolutely no clue as to what, when it would have been trivial to simply implement a tooltip or message stating what you had done that was incorrect. (As in fact, the SAME INSTALLER does on the previous screen, when you name the system.)

These are computers, it's not a game of family fortunes.

Also you can, by all means, post screenshots of your machine updated. I have since reinstalled and also updated, and on the second attempt, it worked. I could provide exactly the same screenshots, but that still doesn't take anything away from the fact that my first install of the OS committed "suicide by update".

But no, of course, if you've not had a problem then clearly the entire OS is flawless, and any problem anyone else had must be their fault and theirs alone because god forbid anything be contrary to your experience.
Click to expand...

Every time you enter a capital and you see a cross, that indicates the character is unacceptable. As stated, your confusion was more about a lack of familiarity being outside of your comfort zone as opposed to any issue with intuition on behalf of the installer. However, I have to emphasize that every time I personally see a cross upon entering a character, alarm bells ring in my head indicating that that particular character is unacceptable.

What's more confusing is how Microsoft deliberately manipulate the user under their installer to use a Microsoft as opposed to a local account.

I'm following the exact same process you did, bias is not playing a part here so don't try to assume that I'm somehow forcing all this to install perfectly - Something I couldn't do if I tried.

[EDIT] And I'm installing bare metal, not some VM install.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: naib
like this
niconx said:
Lack of binary compatibility doesn't help. Commercial developers don't want to hand out their code so you can recompile it every time there is an update to dependencies.
Click to expand...

This is why you stick to distro's that use either .deb installers or .rpm installers.

Naturally developers are not going to support every distro out there, however I've never once seen a case where developers don't provide a compilable installer using shell script, even in the case of proprietary software.

Distro developers then add this script to their central repository, making such software easier to install than it is under Windows.
 
Because for every annoying quirk windows has linux can show five. Of which at least one is only solvable by some conf file editing.
 
M76 said:
Because for every annoying quirk windows has linux can show five. Of which at least one is only solvable by some conf file editing.
Click to expand...

So far we've only seen one?

Plenty of fixes I've had to apply under Windows using that horrible solution called a registry - I'd rather edit a plain text file any day.
 
BulletDust said:
So far we've only seen one?

Plenty of fixes I've had to apply under Windows using that horrible solution called a registry - I'd rather edit a plain text file any day.
Click to expand...
In linux I have to use conf editing to set up almost anything. That's not normal. It shouldn't be normal. And the worst is that it's not linux that is becoming more intuitive or easier to use, but windows is getting more like linux, by having to go to the registry for things that were easily accessible trough the control panel before. (like changing the damn frame color of windows). Or having to use powershell to get rid of pre-installed garbage. So if linux is becoming more attractive is not because linux is getting better than it was 20 year ago when I first tried it as a desktop OS, but because windows is slowly slipping down to the same level.
 
M76 said:
In linux I have to use conf editing to set up almost anything. That's not normal. It shouldn't be normal. And the worst is that it's not linux that is becoming more intuitive or easier to use, but windows is getting more like linux, by having to go to the registry for things that were easily accessible trough the control panel before. (like changing the damn frame color of windows). Or having to use powershell to get rid of pre-installed garbage. So if linux is becoming more attractive is not because linux is getting better than it was 20 year ago when I first tried it as a desktop OS, but because windows is slowly slipping down to the same level.
Click to expand...

Really? I've never used a conf file to achieve a damn thing.

What are you trying to achieve that cannot be done via the GUI and what distro?
 
M76 said:
In linux I have to use conf editing to set up almost anything. That's not normal. It shouldn't be normal. And the worst is that it's not linux that is becoming more intuitive or easier to use, but windows is getting more like linux, by having to go to the registry for things that were easily accessible trough the control panel before. (like changing the damn frame color of windows). Or having to use powershell to get rid of pre-installed garbage. So if linux is becoming more attractive is not because linux is getting better than it was 20 year ago when I first tried it as a desktop OS, but because windows is slowly slipping down to the same level.
Click to expand...
Actually you don't BUT you can. Again you are attributing old-FUD & lack of familiarity as core failings. There is fairly consistent HID within Linux desktops and between desktops thanks to the fsf YET these common complaints can be boiled down to " it's not windows" while running with the belief the windows way is the only and correct way.

Oh want to talk about command line? How about edge constantly hijacking pdf/html. When my work machine got switched so I could trial engineering software this was a pita until I googled for the solution.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...d/1dda6be3-e955-4a4c-b4b3-9da620883e80?auth=1

Regex... Because that is oh so much more intuitive than a cli
 
BulletDust said:
Really? I've never used a conf file to achieve a damn thing.

What are you trying to achieve that cannot be done via the GUI and what distro?
Click to expand...
Last time? I think it was network connection. Before that ftp access. Sure that might not be desktop usage, but I don't use linux as a desktop I used it only as a server, as that's what it's good at. Last time I used linux purely as a desktop OS was in 2007, and not by choice.
 
naib said:
Actually you don't BUT you can. Again you are attributing old-FUD & lack of familiarity as core failings. There is fairly consistent HID within Linux desktops and between desktops thanks to the fsf YET these common complaints can be boiled down to " it's not windows" while running with the belief the windows way is the only and correct way.

Oh want to talk about command line? How about edge constantly hijacking pdf/html. When my work machine got switched so I could trial engineering software this was a pita until I googled for the solution.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...d/1dda6be3-e955-4a4c-b4b3-9da620883e80?auth=1

Regex... Because that is oh so much more intuitive than a cli
Click to expand...

You linux apologists are actually more fanatical than heatlessun is as a windows apologist.
 
M76 said:
Last time? I think it was network connection. Before that ftp access. Sure that might not be desktop usage, but I don't use linux as a desktop I used it only as a server, as that's what it's good at. Last time I used linux purely as a desktop OS was in 2007, and not by choice.
Click to expand...

C'mon!

This is a discussion relating to "The year of the Linux Desktop", let's try to keep server operating systems out of this?!

There's a reason why Linux servers require you to edit conf files and it has to do with SSH - A vastly more efficient system to GUI based 'Snapins' and remote desktop via a touch based interface on a server of all things.
 
M76 said:
You linux apologists are actually more fanatical than heatlessun is as a windows apologist.
Click to expand...

Not really.

I don't go out and buy the latest Linux product the second it's released like Heatless does with Surface products.

And there's a vast number of products running the Linux kernel.
 
My Solus install is going really well....

Finished updates flawlessly, just installed Chrome Beta via the Software Center - Child's play and didn't even need to do any searching via a browser! Now I'm installing the latest version of Steam via the same process.

All with screenshots of course.

[EDIT] Steam integration under Solus is downright brilliant, the team have done a really good job integrating Steam with their distro.

Also, bear in mind that I'm an xbuntu user, so most of this is fairly new to me and I'm not experiencing any issues whatsoever with fragmentation.
 
BulletDust said:
My Solus install is going really well....

Finished updates flawlessly, just installed Chrome Beta via the Software Center - Child's play and didn't even need to do any searching via a browser! Now I'm installing the latest version of Steam via the same process.

All with screenshots of course.
Click to expand...

You can screenshot as much as you like. I experienced an OS that nuked itself via it's own update utility. Whatever your install does is irrelevant. You're literally not making a point by doing this, apart from that you're so desperate not to admit any flaw in Solus, that you're willing to go to this extent to defend it, despite the fact your OS working on your hardware proves nothing whatsoever about the OS failing utterly on my hardware.
 
GlacierNine said:
You can screenshot as much as you like. I experienced an OS that nuked itself via it's own update utility. Whatever your install does is irrelevant. You're literally not making a point by doing this, apart from that you're so desperate not to admit any flaw in Solus, that you're willing to go to this extent to defend it, despite the fact your OS working on your hardware proves nothing whatsoever about the OS failing utterly on my hardware.
Click to expand...

But I am.

I'm highlighting that your isolated case is not at all common. I've experienced far more issues under Windows almost identical to the ones you're describing under Solus that any issues I've ever experienced under Linux.

Furthermore, I'm highlighting just how beautifully siple this OS is to use! No searching for the latest software via a browser and then installing via: Browse > Next > Next > Yes > Accept > Next > Finish.

We still don't know what GPU you're using.
 
A 1070, however that has nothing to do with the system nuking itself because the nvidia drivers weren't installed when it did so.

Also, are you aware that your one example does nothing to prove how "common" or not common something is?

What you should be concerned about is what caused my issue, not whether you can waste your time not having that issue yourself, because that means nothing to me or anyone else who might consider installing Solus. Provide an explanation, not a meaningless, singular datapoint to contribute to an imaginary tally of solus installs.
 
All done! I didn't have to install a single driver, not one! Everything worked out of the box, even the official drivers for my Brother HL-3150CDN were detected and installed prefectly with no intervention on my behalf.

Admittedly, this is one area where Windows 10 has improved considerably and actually does a really good job, but I still think distro's like Solus hold a slight Edge.
 
GlacierNine said:
A 1070, however that has nothing to do with the system nuking itself because the nvidia drivers weren't installed when it did so.

Also, are you aware that your one example does nothing to prove how "common" or not common something is?

What you should be concerned about is what caused my issue, not whether you can waste your time not having that issue yourself, because that means nothing to me or anyone else who might consider installing Solus. Provide an explanation, not a meaningless, singular datapoint to contribute to an imaginary tally of solus installs.
Click to expand...

Yes it does.

By default you are running what's known as the Nouveau drivers, think of them as the default Windows display driver - You wouldn't game with the default Widows display driver and 120Hz wouldn't be ideal under the default Windows display driver. You need to install the official Nvidia drivers, now I've never done this under Solus, under xbuntu it's piss easy - Far easier than under Windows, and under Solus via the software center it looks even easier!

Might swap out this AMD card and try it. So far Intel iGPU and AMD drivers installed perfectly with no intervention on my behalf.

G2kXSlph.jpg


Haven't had even the slightest reason to use terminal thus far.
 
What REAL difference is there between checking a box in a GUI and setting "derp=1" in a conf file?
I think it boils down to unfamiliarity and fear of the unknown (which nowadays quickly translates into HURR DURR IT SUCKS ASS).
 
schoolslave said:
What REAL difference is there between checking a box in a GUI and setting "derp=1" in a conf file?
I think it boils down to unfamiliarity and fear of the unknown (which nowadays quickly translates into HURR DURR IT SUCKS ASS).
Click to expand...

Exactly!

Here's a quick shot of the Solus test bench:

gUS2ZQWh.jpg
 
travm said:
In a nutshell.
Using galliumOS on my chromebook. USB drive failed forced me to reinstall. The settings to enable the "right click zone" on the touchpad are buried in a config file. The website that originally told me where this was and the 10 lines of terminal code i had to put in to change it seems to have dissapeared. People online with similar issues are being told they don't know what they are talking about and its not an issue.
I use engineering software on my chromebook and want the simple right click on the touchpad, like i had before. But because i didnt write down the stupid terminal command, its lost. Also because i didnt write the program, I dont just bloody know where it is.
Linux is cheap, its not good, its not easy. I have dual booted multiple times, basically run linux for close to 10 years. Updates often break the system, or if your lucky just a few programs. And the response from more knowledgable people is always, oh you just dont know what your doing. Maybe so, but windows just fucking works (relatively, indeed, sometimes it doesnt either, but mostly it does).
Click to expand...


Well it is good. What's not good is the documentation. You have to go to many different places to find the tweak that you need. When you ask for a simple fix you get a curt response that doesn't fully answer your question. Are there other good replacments for your chromebook's OS you can use?
 
schoolslave said:
What REAL difference is there between checking a box in a GUI and setting "derp=1" in a conf file?
I think it boils down to unfamiliarity and fear of the unknown (which nowadays quickly translates into HURR DURR IT SUCKS ASS).
Click to expand...

Actually if it were just changing config files by hand Linux desktop would have more users. As I stated in my post above there's no one good source for documentation and the man pages are a flat out joke with most apps.
 
Until there is a drop dead date of applications and games working under both windows and Linux there is really no need to switch.

We been having the year of desktop Linux for as long as I can remember but many common users (not idiots) aren’t going to use something that doesn’t have a rock solid platform of everything working in it.

Most people want to just put in a disk click install and go. Not that Linux can’t do that but it’s far easier to stick to something that is household name.

Politics of Windows verses Linux. Linux has never pulled its head out of its ass for the most common users. Windows continues to push its head further into its ass thinking it’s better to gab its users. Programmers go where they can put food on the table unless they are independently wealthy.

Looks like another year of Windows Desktops to me.
 
LBJM said:
Actually if it were just changing config files by hand Linux desktop would have more users. As I stated in my post above there's no one good source for documentation and the man pages are a flat out joke with most apps.
Click to expand...

The issue with this comment is that you don't need to change config files by hand under desktop Linux any more often than you need to edit the Windows registry....

Gavv said:
Until there is a drop dead date of applications and games working under both windows and Linux there is really no need to switch.

We been having the year of desktop Linux for as long as I can remember but many common users (not idiots) aren’t going to use something that doesn’t have a rock solid platform of everything working in it.

Most people want to just put in a disk click install and go. Not that Linux can’t do that but it’s far easier to stick to something that is household name.

Politics of Windows verses Linux. Linux has never pulled its head out of its ass for the most common users. Windows continues to push its head further into its ass thinking it’s better to gab its users. Programmers go where they can put food on the table unless they are independently wealthy.

Looks like another year of Windows Desktops to me.
Click to expand...

I've just installed a full OS as well as applications by doing exactly what you believe to be a weakness of Linux - Via point and click, easier than under Windows.

The only reason for Windows popularity is forced installs on OEM and brand name machines, basically a ruthless marketing department. Most of the claims in this thread are flat out incorrect generalizations by misinformed Windows users.
 
BulletDust said:
The issue with this comment is that you don't need to change config files by hand under desktop Linux any more often than you need to edit the Windows registry....



I've just installed a full OS as well as applications by doing exactly what you believe to be a weakness of Linux - Via point and click, easier than under Windows.

The only reason for Windows popularity is forced installs on OEM and brand name machines, basically a ruthless marketing department. Most of the claims in this thread are flat out incorrect generalizations by misinformed Windows users.
Click to expand...

Every game, every application can now be installed on Linux? Point and click?

Every game? Every application? You have tested them all?
 
Gavv said:
Every game, every application can now be installed on Linux? Point and click?

Every game? Every application? You have tested them all?
Click to expand...

It's my primary OS, the installation process isn't exactly rocket science.

The beta of UT4 required the running of a .sh script, that was still achievable via the GUI point and click.
 
DukenukemX said:
From what I've seen the sale of most PC games is either equal to the PS4 or surpassing it. Really depends on the game though, but generally the PC is doing equally to the PS4. Cuphead for example sold over 1 million on Steam alone, while the Xbox One version didn't do as well.

https://steamspy.com/search.php?s=cuphead
Click to expand...

I did say AAA games. Cuphead is a 2D game that can probably run on integrated graphics and is played by many non-gamers. It is in the same category as phone games even if the demographics spill over. I don't consider someone who loads up Angry Birds or downloads the occasional side scroller on their $600 Dell to be the same type of gamer as one who spends hundreds of dollars on gaming hardware and games each year.

For AAA games let us look at an example, here is Witcher 3:
https://gamerant.com/the-witcher-3-sales-pc-consoles-125/
https://gamerant.com/the-witcher-3-sales-pc-consoles-125/
Sales were split 30 to 70 (Xbox and PS4). And without a doubt the PS4 version likely outsold the Xbox One version seeing that almost twice as many PS4s had sold as Ones.

Keep in mind this is a series that has a heavy story that was PC exclusive, aside from a late port of Witcher 2 to the Xbox 360. It had an exceptionally strong PC following; much more so than most AAA games. And it still lagged far behind. I'd expect the ratio to look worse for your typical game. Even if PC games make up 20-25% of sales you can't ignore such a large chunk, but to say they are beating the consoles in sales is complete nonsense.
 
Gavv said:
Every game, every application can now be installed on Linux? Point and click?

Every game? Every application? You have tested them all?
Click to expand...


Let's not forget the drivers! ;D

I do love Linux, but the Linux desktop is just not there yet. What bothers me is CDPR ported The Witcher 2 to linux, but made even more money without porting the Witcher 3 to Linux. There is official plans to port it to Linux.
 
Just swapped the AMD card for an Nvidia card and updated the drivers. So easy even my wife could do this.

reLw4g3h.jpg


sB9lxgTh.jpg


1ajAetkh.jpg


GHScy5ph.jpg


fn0uBofh.jpg


td9FtVOh.jpg


hjvLrZXh.jpg


z7Wg8MJh.jpg


p5hn8dWh.jpg


So much easier than the same process under Windows. Once again, no browser needed and completely painless. The second screenshot highlights that the system is, in fact, running Nouveau by default.
 
Last edited:
LBJM said:
Let's not forget the drivers! ;D

I do love Linux, but the Linux desktop is just not there yet. What bothers me is CDPR ported The Witcher 2 to linux, but made even more money without porting the Witcher 3 to Linux. There is official plans to port it to Linux.
Click to expand...

See post above, once again generalized misinformation.

The desktop is spot on, under many DE's you can tweak it exactly to how the user likes/wants it.
 
The Solus install process, all done with nothing else to install with the exception of games in about 45 mins. Not a single solitary issue under Intel, AMD and Nvidia graphics:

kes5XiXh.jpg


sn5c1qnh.jpg


EuTcflXh.jpg


ZJLJlOth.jpg


odo69xgh.jpg


pi0QSyXh.jpg


uCyOZYDh.jpg


edRD59Bh.jpg


RgX60bhh.jpg


9isE3XLh.jpg


zAhcp6nh.jpg


6AARBbKh.jpg


pC094tph.jpg


1woyfulh.jpg


sQ1ZZFmh.jpg


zYvVAL2h.jpg


0QKhrjMh.jpg


ESpT2Odh.jpg


tvTrfYnh.jpg


z7okYLph.jpg


Installing Chrome Beta, so easy:

p0SUqG9h.jpg


hWom8f8h.jpg


SzxVDdih.jpg


CYug8IXh.jpg
 
BulletDust said:
Just finished installing, not a single issue. When typing in the username everytime I entered a capital I saw a cross indicating that, obviously, capitals are not allowed - Fairly self explanatory and I carried on with the install process.

Once installed the updater prompted me that there were updates to install. I began installing them, it takes a while so Solus logged me out and put the screen to sleep, upon waking up again I logged back in and the installer was still there working just fine.

[EDIT] Screenshots coming, so far the updater is excellent.
Click to expand...

Just because you do not have any problems does not make your experience the right one. You are only one person on one set of hardware, many others do have problems that are totally unrelated to experience and familiarity. No, it is not and never will be the Year of the Linux Desktop.
 
schoolslave said:
What REAL difference is there between checking a box in a GUI and setting "derp=1" in a conf file?
I think it boils down to unfamiliarity and fear of the unknown (which nowadays quickly translates into HURR DURR IT SUCKS ASS).
Click to expand...

Right, you tell someone in accounting that. Which is representative of the target demographic of this discussion. No one is saying Linux sucks, we are saying it sucks for non techies.

How are you people really this dense?
 
schoolslave said:
What REAL difference is there between checking a box in a GUI and setting "derp=1" in a conf file?
I think it boils down to unfamiliarity and fear of the unknown (which nowadays quickly translates into HURR DURR IT SUCKS ASS).
Click to expand...

The GUI checks your input, to make sure it is valid both in format, and range. A GUI also shows you all the options you can change, often what values they can have, and can even provide interactive help to explain them. Text mode stuff is a higher barrier for entry than the GUI, which is why we've seen more GUI solutions as computers have become more mainstream.

Don't try and sell things as being just as easy when you well know they aren't, that is a great way to turn people off of things. If you try and claim it is just as easy and they find out it isn't, well they aren't likely to listen to your advice. If something is different and/or more difficult, let people know up front and help them with it. Also make sure to put yourself in the shoes of a non-techie, don't try and assume everyone does or even can have your level of knowledge.
 
ManofGod said:
Just because you do not have any problems does not make your experience the right one. You are only one person on one set of hardware, many others do have problems that are totally unrelated to experience and familiarity. No, it is not and never will be the Year of the Linux Desktop.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and the fact he is so determined as to waste HOURS of his time trying to disprove the fact I had the OS literally break itself is very telling as to just how completely unable to think rationally, Bulletdust actually is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top