“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

MavericK said:

You edited your post with a smiley after I quoted you so I now assume you were joking.

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It's best to always assume I'm joking, except when I'm not . In future posts I'll use more smilies

i still didnt watched, i think i'll probably wait to watch at home or something. anyway, did those dirty flea infested tree hugging jedy hippie motherfuckers managed to screw everything up in this one too? and then like in previous movies, then they also had to flee and hide and pretend that nothing happened because they actually had no idea at all of what they were doing? while the universe populace is left for all the looting murder and rape that followed the outcome of their brilliant ideas?

D4rkn3ss said:

i still didnt watched, i think i'll probably wait to watch at home or something. anyway, did those dirty flea infested tree hugging jedy hippie motherfuckers managed to screw everything up in this one too? and then like in previous movies, then they also had to flee and hide and pretend that nothing happened because they actually had no idea at all of what they were doing? while the universe populace is left for all the looting murder and rape that followed the outcome of their brilliant ideas?

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Not really. But it does just plain suck. I mean fucking sucks. And this coming from a guy with a black alfa 4C who has 'SITH' has his license tag.

4saken said:

Not really. But it does just plain suck. I mean fucking sucks. And this coming from a guy with a black alfa 4C who has 'SITH' has his license tag.

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oh lol bro

Saw it, liked it a lot. I think the only part that really dragged on was the running with the horses stuff. GF liked it almost as much as I did. Think people forget how many cheesy Will Smithesque zingers were in the original.


Serious question: SPOILER

What were the two characters in charge of the ship under Leia called? One was definitely Vice Admiral Holdo but who was the other?

ZeqOBpf6 said:

Serious question: SPOILER

What were the two characters in charge of the ship under Leia called? One was definitely Vice Admiral Holdo but who was the other?

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The woman under Holdo was commander D'Acy. The young lieutenant played by Fisher's daughter is Lt. Connix.

Just didn't really go anywhere after two and a half hours.

daglesj said:

Just didn't really go anywhere after two and a half hours.

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Yes it did, Thanks MavericK.


I mean, maybe you didn't like where it went, but it went places.

Aireoth said:

Yes it did, I do not know how to put things behind a Spoiler so SPOILER (lite)

That I noticed:

4 Named characters dead, 2 of them big ones, 2 little.
Multiple new characters introduced
Rei is a ____ now
The rebels are crippled
The order got spanked
All the rebels are together at the end.

I mean, maybe you didn't like where it went, but it went places.

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1. Big whoop!
2. Is she? She can move rocks and learnt that in 30 minutes.
3. The rebels are always crippled.
4. The order always gets spanked but seems to have endless resources so...
5. Yes just fewer of them and fewer ships.

We are right back at the end of ESB effectively.

So no real change. The movie was a lot of dancing about to distract from the fact not much actually happened of any real substance. But it's just a Star Wars movie so I didnt expect too much.

However expect another huge mega weapon to defeat in Episode IX.

Aireoth said:

Yes it did, I do not know how to put things behind a Spoiler so SPOILER (lite)

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FYI - when you go to make/edit a post, press the "+" next to the Media link button, and there you will find the Spoiler tags.

Saw it monday. While I didn't feel ripped off, the movie was extremely dissapointing and just not as fun as FA and Rogue One to me.

daglesj said:

1. Big whoop!
2. Is she? She can move rocks and learnt that in 30 minutes.
3. The rebels are always crippled.
4. The order always gets spanked but seems to have endless resources so...
5. Yes just fewer of them and fewer ships.

We are right back at the end of ESB effectively.

So no real change. The movie was a lot of dancing about to distract from the fact not much actually happened of any real substance. But it's just a Star Wars movie so I didnt expect too much.

However expect another huge mega weapon to defeat in Episode IX.

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So the reality is you just don't like the direction, its OK to not like something.

Art is a time capsule for the times we are living in. Its 2017, so art will reflect that.
Sorry to the folks that think things should be like it was in 1977. Time changes things.

Not a real fan of SW, but I liked the movie. I'm a John Wick kind of guy so I wanted it to be more hardcore in certain moments.

Ugh, I finally watched The Last Jedi. Not a fan. Spoilers Below.

I actually liked TFA. I enjoyed the new cast and the new stories that were being set up. The only thing I didn't really like about TFA is Kylo Ren becoming too monotonous after killing his dad at point blank range. I thought there was potential for him to possibly become a good guy over the course of the trilogy, but killing his own dad like that pretty much made him irredeemable without convoluted plot elements. I can forgive the writers for that though, and the obnoxious killing of Han Solo itself, knowing how much Harrison Ford hates acting now and didn't even want to be in the movie at all. They pretty much had to kill Han off somehow. Everything else about TFA set up so much potential for a good trilogy...

...and TLJ ruined it all. Every character seemed to go in a totally different direction from what was setup in TFA, the original trilogy, or both. Luke and Leia were made into jokes, to the point of actually being embarrassingly badly written compared to their potential and the direction their characters were going in the original series.

Luke. The idea that people have been waiting 34 years to see Luke again and all they got was this... wow. He's just a bitchy old man now that doesn't have even a shred of optimism anymore unlike his character in the original series. I get that this can be justified, but that doesn't matter. Did anyone really go into this movie wanting to see Luke like this? I doubt it. Even with the stupid plot elements, who the fuck thought it was a good idea to actually kill Luke off in the end? They could have at least found a way to give him a part in the 3rd movie that made his pathetic showing in the 2nd more explainable.

Leia... I don't think that she should have been in any of the new movies honestly. She (Carrie Fisher) obviously just had a bit too much fun with her life after the original trilogy. She reminds me of Karen Allen in the 2008 Indiana Jones movie, showing the effects of so many drugs over the years it was almost comical. It's like it's not even the same person anymore. At least this part can't be blamed on bad writing, but the superwoman flying through space scene certainly can... Really I was hoping that her character was simply going to die when she got sucked out into space.

Kylo Ren & Rey. I don't really understand how they can keep flip-flopping back and forth with Kylo Ren being a good guy or bad guy. Rey flip-flopped back and forth way too easily in regards to how she felt about Kylo Ren depending on what the plot happened to need at that moment, too easily forgetting about how he killed Han Solo. I'm also not sure how Kylo Ren flip-flops back and forth between being weaker than an untrained girl in the force and strong enough to trick a sith lord. Rey herself seems just a bit too boring, just setup to be a stereotypical female hero.

Poe & Finn. These two had so much potential in TFA, but they just became boring stereotypical characters in TLJ.

Chewbacca, C3PO, R2D2. They had such a small presence in this movie and even the whole trilogy so far, what is the point of even including them in the trilogy at all?

Was there a single person besides the director himself that actually watched the battle scenes before the movie was released? So many plot holes in this movie, especially in the battle scenes, the only real way to watch this movie is to get drunk and stoned first so that you're not even really thinking about how what you are watching contradicts what you've already seen and also often contradicts basic physics.

I'm not really sure if age is a factor for me like many have said. The original trilogy was made before I was born, but I enjoyed watching them on Laserdisc as I grew up. I enjoyed the Prequel Trilogy quite a bit; the 2nd and 3rd more than the 1st, but I liked them all. I was 13, 17, and 20 for those movies so maybe still a bit of a kid. Maybe my current age (33) had something to do with why I didn't like TLJ, but I was already 31 when TFA came out and I liked that movie plenty.

I don't think that it realistically works having each movie of a trilogy going in a different direction with different writers, etc. For something like a Trilogy, the story of the 3rd movie should already be completely written before they even begin to film the 1st movie.

GotNoRice said:

Ugh, I finally watched The Last Jedi. Not a fan. Spoilers Below.

I actually liked TFA. I enjoyed the new cast and the new stories that were being set up. The only thing I didn't really like about TFA is Kylo Ren becoming too monotonous after killing his dad at point blank range. I thought there was potential for him to possibly become a good guy over the course of the trilogy, but killing his own dad like that pretty much made him irredeemable without convoluted plot elements. I can forgive the writers for that though, and the obnoxious killing of Han Solo itself, knowing how much Harrison Ford hates acting now and didn't even want to be in the movie at all. They pretty much had to kill Han off somehow. Everything else about TFA set up so much potential for a good trilogy...

...and TLJ ruined it all. Every character seemed to go in a totally different direction from what was setup in TFA, the original trilogy, or both. Luke and Leia were made into jokes, to the point of actually being embarrassingly badly written compared to their potential and the direction their characters were going in the original series.

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Okay, you've set up your opinion, lets see where it goes:

Luke. The idea that people have been waiting 34 years to see Luke again and all they got was this... wow. He's just a bitchy old man now that doesn't have even a shred of optimism anymore unlike his character in the original series. I get that this can be justified, but that doesn't matter. Did anyone really go into this movie wanting to see Luke like this? I doubt it. Even with the stupid plot elements, who the fuck thought it was a good idea to actually kill Luke off in the end? They could have at least found a way to give him a part in the 3rd movie that made his pathetic showing in the 2nd more explainable.

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Wow, Luke changed? It's almost like the character might have had a lifetime of experience between being a sheltered kid who lived on a fucking rock in the middle of nowhere, to someone who became the hero of the galaxy, and then spent years raising and training students, including his own nephew, only to royally screw the pooch, turn his nephew to the darkside, and fairly directly cause the death of all his dozen (plus) other students. GEE, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE GUY HAS REGRET ISSUES OR SOMETHING. I can't imagine why.... (I'd also suggest you look at what Obi-Wan did with his life as a Jedi. You may find a few parallels. Just sayin')

Leia... I don't think that she should have been in any of the new movies honestly. She (Carrie Fisher) obviously just had a bit too much fun with her life after the original trilogy. She reminds me of Karen Allen in the 2008 Indiana Jones movie, showing the effects of so many drugs over the years it was almost comical. It's like it's not even the same person anymore. At least this part can't be blamed on bad writing, but the superwoman flying through space scene certainly can... Really I was hoping that her character was simply going to die when she got sucked out into space.

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I agree about the supergirl scene in the flick, I wasn't a huge fan of that. They were showing force accumen for her, and they could have done it in a different way that wasn't quite so odd.

Again, you might think that she'd had a lifetime of things happen between the last movie in the series and now... Losing a son, Her Hubby being Murdered by her Son, her Brother running away to become a hobo.... You'd think that those events had an impact on her life or something.... NAH, that's not possible....

Kylo Ren & Rey. I don't really understand how they can keep flip-flopping back and forth with Kylo Ren being a good guy or bad guy. Rey flip-flopped back and forth way too easily in regards to how she felt about Kylo Ren depending on what the plot happened to need at that moment, too easily forgetting about how he killed Han Solo. I'm also not sure how Kylo Ren flip-flops back and forth between being weaker than an untrained girl in the force and strong enough to trick a sith lord. Rey herself seems just a bit too boring, just setup to be a stereotypical female hero.

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This part makes complete sense in the movie. Neither went to the other side really, they were reaching across in an attempt to bring the other to their side. Which they did make pretty damned clear in the flick.

Poe & Finn. These two had so much potential in TFA, but they just became boring stereotypical characters in TLJ.

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We get it, you ship PoeFinn. It's okay, you'll always have slash fic.

Chewbacca, C3PO, R2D2. They had such a small presence in this movie and even the whole trilogy so far, what is the point of even including them in the trilogy at all?

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They're now supporting characters instead of quasi-main characters? The movies aren't about them, so there's no damned reason for them to have a shit-ton of screen time?

Was there a single person besides the director himself that actually watched the battle scenes before the movie was released? So many plot holes in this movie, especially in the battle scenes, the only real way to watch this movie is to get drunk and stoned first so that you're not even really thinking about how what you are watching contradicts what you've already seen and also often contradicts basic physics.

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Are we still complaining about the bombers thing? Really? Is it possible that the mechanism that held them in the bomber also applied a downward force when they were released? Magnetic propulsion, possibly? OR even some variety of physical? Clearly that's too advanced for this timeline.

I'm not really sure if age is a factor for me like many have said. The original trilogy was made before I was born, but I enjoyed watching them on Laserdisc as I grew up. I enjoyed the Prequel Trilogy quite a bit; the 2nd and 3rd more than the 1st, but I liked them all. I was 13, 17, and 20 for those movies so maybe still a bit of a kid. Maybe my current age (33) had something to do with why I didn't like TLJ, but I was already 31 when TFA came out and I liked that movie plenty.

I don't think that it realistically works having each movie of a trilogy going in a different direction with different writers, etc. For something like a Trilogy, the story of the 3rd movie should already be completely written before they even begin to film the 1st movie.

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You don't think they were written?

They were. They're making significant changes to Episode 9 because Leia was supposed to feature heavily, but obviously can't now, and they don't want to shoe-horn it with CG. If it wasn't written, that wouldn't be a problem, now would it?

I'm hoping they make an animated feature or something that happens between 8 and 9 to write her a good send-off.

They had a different DIRECTOR for Ep 8, not writers. The same team wrote all 3.

Guarana [BAWLS] said:

Are we still complaining about the bombers thing? Really? Is it possible that the mechanism that held them in the bomber also applied a downward force when they were released? Magnetic propulsion, possibly? OR even some variety of physical? Clearly that's too advanced for this timeline.

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The bombers thing is stupidly easy to explain.

They have artificial gravity on board just like every other starship. That has always been part of star wars lore. The bombs are inside the starship. The artificial gravity would also propel them out of the starship as they slid down the racks. Once they were outside the spaceship, the downward and forward inertia would keep them heading towards their target.

I agree with you. Even if that weren't the case, the universe is full of slow laser blasts, laser swords, anti-gravity generators, and fucking wizzards. There could be any number of things pushing those bombs out the ship.

The one issue I have is the Holdo maneuver.

I just am sick of hollywopd pimping politics. They would do far better if they just fuxking delivered fantasy. What da F happened to that simple method that for decades astonished audiences?

CaptNumbNutz said:

Stuff

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What was said here makes a lot of sense. (Also we have proof of gravity inside the ship during the scene.)

Holdo's Maneuver was some epic shit, yo.

Guarana [BAWLS] said:

What was said here makes a lot of sense. (Also we have proof of gravity inside the ship during the scene.)

Holdo's Maneuver was some epic shit, yo.

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The bombs are officially electro-magnetic
The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary

Bombs don't technically "drop" in microgravity, but are impelled from their racks by sequenced electromagnetic plates in the clip. The bombs are then drawn magnetically to their unfortunate targets.

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and while "Holdo's Maneuver" was epic and well sequenced/directed ... it royally messes with the canon because essentially WTF now and WTF not uses IN THE OTHER FSCKING FILMS! and this is essentially my issue with Disney and StarWars ... sure scrap EU, sure add new stuff but the entire FU to continuity just makes it harder for bad story. 1hour of TLJ could have been cut and the film would not have been any different

naib said:

The bombs are officially electro-magnetic
The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary

and while "Holdo's Maneuver" was epic and well sequenced/directed ... it royally messes with the canon because essentially WTF now and WTF not uses IN THE OTHER FSCKING FILMS! and this is essentially my issue with Disney and StarWars ... sure scrap EU, sure add new stuff but the entire FU to continuity just makes it harder for bad story. 1hour of TLJ could have been cut and the film would not have been any different

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I was a little sad the bombers weren't Y wings with torpedoes.... these are a bit too literal of bombers. Low velocity bombs aren't generally what you penetrate armor with. Nevermind when the first goes off it'd blow the others into space.

naib said:

The bombs are officially electro-magnetic
The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary

and while "Holdo's Maneuver" was epic and well sequenced/directed ... it royally messes with the canon because essentially WTF now and WTF not uses IN THE OTHER FSCKING FILMS! and this is essentially my issue with Disney and StarWars ... sure scrap EU, sure add new stuff but the entire FU to continuity just makes it harder for bad story. 1hour of TLJ could have been cut and the film would not have been any different

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Well there ya go. That works too.

Also, read my post above about Holdo's maneuver. I think that's about the only continuity explanation we are going to get. It sucks, I agree.

Dayaks said:

I was a little sad the bombers weren't Y wings with torpedoes.... these are a bit too literal of bombers. Low velocity bombs aren't generally what you penetrate armor with. Nevermind when the first goes off it'd blow the others into space.

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They could be linked to all go off the second one of them does or simply be super unstable and one small shockwave would cause a chain reaction. I would assume that was the case simply based on how they seemed to self destruct the second something pierced the bomber's hulls.

TBH, the bomber kind of makes sense. Oddly, the idea for them seemed rushed but kind of feels like it fits with the rest of the vehicles in their tiny fleet. They had 1 old cruiser and 2 old frigates. That's it. The most up to date vehicles appeared to be their couple squadrons of X-Wings and A-Wings they likely borrowed or bought from the New Republic. These things look like they were either old as hell designs or something they cobbled together from other ships... kind of like the "Uglies" used by pirates that build ships out of whatever scrap they have lying around. It looks like they got a huge shipment of thermal detonators, shoved a dozen or so in a small metal canister then rigged them up as magnetic mines.

naib said:

and while "Holdo's Maneuver" was epic and well sequenced/directed ... it royally messes with the canon because essentially WTF now and WTF not uses IN THE OTHER FSCKING FILMS! and this is essentially my issue with Disney and StarWars ... sure scrap EU, sure add new stuff but the entire FU to continuity just makes it harder for bad story. 1hour of TLJ could have been cut and the film would not have been any different

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What annoyed me about it process is how long it took her to take action. She had enough fuel to move to try attempting to block the incoming fire from the FO, but no she waited until 30 ships are blown up before taking action. Unlike her counterparts in Jurrasic park, she was not in fact a clever girl.

naib said:

and while "Holdo's Maneuver" was epic and well sequenced/directed ... it royally messes with the canon because essentially WTF now and WTF not uses IN THE OTHER FSCKING FILMS! and this is essentially my issue with Disney and StarWars ... sure scrap EU, sure add new stuff but the entire FU to continuity just makes it harder for bad story. 1hour of TLJ could have been cut and the film would not have been any different

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https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/20/16800970/vice-admiral-holdo-maneuver-the-last-jedi

You don't seem to be alone in the questioning that move here

just saw this, and I giggled hard enough that it needed to be added.

naib said:

and while "Holdo's Maneuver" was epic and well sequenced/directed ... it royally messes with the canon because essentially WTF now and WTF not uses IN THE OTHER FSCKING FILMS! and this is essentially my issue...

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Your issue is a lack of imagination.

Maybe ramming and causing damage like that requires precise timing (striking during the jump before entering hyperspace), a high mass ship, ridiculously powerful shields, even a force sensitive pilot at the controls. That would limit hyperspace ramming as a strategy to last-ditch scenarios like what we saw.

The ramming scene was epic. I'm so tired of people whining about this movie...

Aireoth said:

So the reality is you just don't like the direction, its OK to not like something.

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Yeah it's just annoying when they spend $200 million on something they can't even get a decent script together. I think that's the biggest disappointment.

Haven't read through all of the comments but still want to respond after watching the movie lasg night.

I actually showed up late and arrived when Leia did her superman thing.

This movie was a piece of crap!! This coming from a Star Wars superfan.
It was worse than the prequals. At least the prequals followed some logic.

This was suppose to be a dark movie but they tried forcing humor into innapropriate times. Such as when Leia first meets Luke for years.

The entire movie was the bad guys chazing the good guys in sublight. Why the hell didnt some of the star destroyers just jump ahead in light speed then return to cut them off?? How stupid.

Worse is that Po was made to look like an ass after the Purple haired bitch wouldnt let him know thr plan. Possibly the worst character in Star Wars. At least JarJar wasnt condescending. There is nothing worse.

So the entire Flynn/asian chick (another unlovable characted) subplot was completly useless.
It was to tell the audiance the success is bad and stopping animal cruelty is more important than saving the galaxy.

Enough cant be said about how much Rian destroyed the Skywalker Legacy.

The trailers were so promising. This movie sucked so bad.

and then there was that green little fuck, holee shit, so annoyed me, he

It's like people have never watched a Star Wars movie with some of the complaints over plot themes in LJ. It really shouldn't be a surprise ... I mean really ... that fall and redemption are key themes, they have been throughout the entirety of the Star Wars franchise. Be it Darth Vader, Lando, Solo, Finn, etc, I mean its a REALLY common theme in these movies ... so it really shouldn't come as a surprise that we see this theme continued with Luke and Kylo in this latest film.

Draax said:

It's like people have never watched a Star Wars movie with some of the complaints over plot themes in LJ. It really shouldn't be a surprise ... I mean really ... that fall and redemption are key themes, they have been throughout the entirety of the Star Wars franchise. Be it Darth Vader, Lando, Solo, Finn, etc, I mean its a REALLY common theme in these movies ... so it really shouldn't come as a surprise that we see this theme continued with Luke and Kylo in this latest film.

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no sh*t... now if that was what people were complaining about I would agree.

What about Leia & Holdo's as the evacuation of the cruiser was going on talking about Poe "I like him, so do I" He fscking caused a mutiny... you chuck him in the brig not go "oh that little scamp"
What about the entire "free the alien racers" substory that ate soo much of the time but actually did nothing to the overall story, the FFFFUUU to continuity, the Jedi are whiny bitches.

naib said:

no sh*t... now if that was what people were complaining about I would agree.

What about Leia & Holdo's as the evacuation of the cruiser was going on talking about Poe "I like him, so do I" He fscking caused a mutiny... you chuck him in the brig not go "oh that little scamp"
What about the entire "free the alien racers" substory that ate soo much of the time but actually did nothing to the overall story, the FFFFUUU to continuity, the Jedi are whiny bitches.

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How is it an FU to continuity?

naib said:

no sh*t... now if that was what people were complaining about I would agree.

What about Leia & Holdo's as the evacuation of the cruiser was going on talking about Poe "I like him, so do I" He fscking caused a mutiny... you chuck him in the brig not go "oh that little scamp"
What about the entire "free the alien racers" substory that ate soo much of the time but actually did nothing to the overall story, the FFFFUUU to continuity, the Jedi are whiny bitches.

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That is a large part of what people are complaining about ... OH NOES Luke is acting exactly like Yoda did on Dagobah.. "Woah (/Keanu Reeves) my mind is blown there was no precedent for that."

Nightfire said:

Enough cant be said about how much Rian destroyed the Skywalker Legacy.

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Guess what? Fuck the Skywalker Legacy.

The Skywalkers are the reason the Jedi were destroyed, and the fucking Empire took over in the first place.

They don't deserve a Legacy. Fuck the Skywalkers.

Long Live the legacy of Rey and her "nobody" parentage!

Guarana [BAWLS] said:

Guess what? Fuck the Skywalker Legacy.

The Skywalkers are the reason the Jedi were destroyed, and the fucking Empire took over in the first place.

They don't deserve a Legacy. Fuck the Skywalkers.

Long Live the legacy of Rey and her "nobody" parentage!

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The irony of that statement was the jedi prophecy of "a chosen one will bring balance to the force" meant Anakin had to kill almost all the jedi... Thousands of jedi to two sith... Knocking the jedi downto 2 balanced it (sideous+Vader & Kenobi+yoda) and thus forfilling their own prophecy


Killing off the Skywalker's was also needed and balance by embracing both side was required

naib said:

The irony of that statement was the jedi prophecy of "a chosen one will bring balance to the force" meant Anakin had to kill almost all the jedi... Thousands of jedi to two sith... Knocking the jedi downto 2 balanced it (sideous+Vader & Kenobi+yoda) and thus forfilling their own prophecy


Killing off the Skywalker's was also needed and balance by embracing both side was required

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That depends. The Jedi always seem to think that balance means no Sith. Luke even said there was "balance for awhile" after the death of Vader and Palpatine. I don't think balancing the Force is all about the Sith or Jedi since it's in everything. I think, and the newest movie alludes to a cycle that's more like the yin and yang. We see this in Star Wars on a galactic scale as periods of nearly endless conflict are resolved and eras of peace reign in between. Obviously, the movies are set in the part of the cycle with endless conflict because the other shit is boring.

Guarana [BAWLS] said:

Guess what? Fuck the Skywalker Legacy.

The Skywalkers are the reason the Jedi were destroyed, and the fucking Empire took over in the first place.

They don't deserve a Legacy. Fuck the Skywalkers.

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Dan_D said:

The Jedi always seem to think that balance means no Sith.

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All major conflicts in the SW universe seem to trace back to force sensitives going after each other.

I wonder if Kylo Ren hates the force itself and his actions are ultimately an attempt to subvert it's influence on the galaxy, a la Kreia from KOTOR. His armour was clearly inspired by Revan and they established that there's a force connection between him and Rey in this movie, like I suspected.

DeathFromBelow said:

All major conflicts in the SW universe seem to trace back to force sensitives going after each other.

I wonder if Kylo Ren hates the force itself and his actions are ultimately an attempt to subvert it's influence on the galaxy, a la Kreia from KOTOR. His armour was clearly inspired by Revan and they established that there's a force connection between him and Rey in this movie, like I suspected.

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In general, I think that's true. In KOTOR, KOTOR 2, and Star Wars: The Old Republic this holds true. Most of the EU novels and all the main movies definitely show this is the case. I don't think Kylo hates the force, I think his mancrush on his grand daddy has him following in his foot steps. After he perceived Luke going after him, I think he saw no other way to be. It was either follow Luke or Vader, and he chose the latter, or rather felt forced into it.

Dan_D said:

In general, I think that's true. In KOTOR, KOTOR 2, and Star Wars: The Old Republic this holds true. Most of the EU novels and all the main movies definitely show this is the case. I don't think Kylo hates the force, I think his mancrush on his grand daddy has him following in his foot steps. After he perceived Luke going after him, I think he saw no other way to be. It was either follow Luke or Vader, and he chose the latter, or rather felt forced into it.

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But remember that scene in TFA where he desperately tries to call out to Vader again (how'd that work out?!). His character evolved considerably after the 'you lost to a girl', you're a 'boy in a mask' bit early in TLJ.

After this garbage, there is no way I am going to the theatre for episode 9. Yeah, I know Disney could care less about my $10, but this was such a waste of my time.

As a stand alone it would have been ok. (Except for the refusal to jump ahead of the fleet)

Beyond the Casino garbage and the rest of the SJW crap, this was just a copy of ESB.

LAAAAAAAMMMEEE

It seems a lot of other people have the same feelings as me on the movie.

Here's the thing...by making the movie that Johnson made it boils down to the simple fact that he was selfish. 99% of Star Wars fans could have came up with certain elements to put in the movie that would've been appreciated by others. The fact that he wanted to "tell his own story" shows nothing but selfishness. The direction he took with Luke was so wrong. No one wanted to see this version of him. A lot could have been saved for me if he had swiped his hands in opposite directions and had every AT-AT other than Kylo's go flying off screen, or had him stop every blast from them stop in mid-air one-upping Kylo's blast stop from TFA, or had him clinch his fist together and the AT-ATs crumple like tin cans. Any of those things would have made us say, "WOAH!" It would have showed us the power we've heard about over the years or expected him to have at this point.

I totally disagree with those talking about a "life altering event" for Luke. Even Mark Hamill said he didn't think that's how it would go. I would like to think that even though Luke never had other masters to teach him like in the days of the prequels where everything was passed down, that somehow through his own strength in the force, his journeys to jedi temples, access to the texts, and visits from force ghosts that he would have the same knowledge and basically be on the same level (or surpassed) as the jedi masters that came before him. Therefore, he would hold the Jedi Order's importance over one bad thing that happened. Yoda or Mace Windu would not have disbanded the whole Jedi Order just because one of the students went to the dark side. From what I read about the EU, that happened quite a bit.

I love how we are so fucking divided that Star Wars is a political battleground now. This is insane.