“We’ve Made Some Mistakes”: Bungie Backtracks on Locked Destiny 2 Content

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
Shortly after Destiny 2 expansion Curse of Osiris came out, players who didn’t buy the DLC found themselves locked out of activities they’d previously been able to play. The issue was made worse by Bungie removing access to the Prestige Raid, which made it impossible for non-DLC-owning players to get all the trophies/achievements available on the console versions. Bungie has decided to release a hotfix to curb the backlash.

The Prestige Raid was a novel experience that players value, even if they don’t own Curse of Osiris, and it was a mistake to move that experience out of reach. Throughout the lifetime of the Destiny Franchise, Trials has always required that players owned the latest Expansion. However, for Destiny 2, Trials of The Nine launched as part of the main game, so it’s not right for us to remove access to it.
 
I am a little sad they did this, they need to add a new challenge mode for those who do have the expansion that brings the challenge back up, because from my prospective they just took content away from me so people who don't want to buy the expansion can get an achievement.....
 
I have really wanted to play these games. I'm a big Borderlands fan, and love some simple shooting + light progression types of games. However, the way I've watched them handle their DLC, servers, etc. since the beginning has put me off entirely. I'm normally pretty forgiving with this sort of thing, will usually cave and buy season passes and that sort of crap, but these guys seem pretty clueless as to how to make their customers happy. So I've decided not to get into it. Kinda sad, but it's one of the few cases where a company pushes just a bit too far IMO. There shouldn't have to be backlash for them to know how to treat their fans and potential fans. It's really just common sense. They've shown repeatedly that they don't possess this.
 
1.5hours of single player
1 new strike
1 new group event
some new skins and weapons
10 levels and 25 light levels to grind out

$20 worth of content?

No
 
Lakados said:
I am a little sad they did this, they need to add a new challenge mode for those who do have the expansion that brings the challenge back up, because from my prospective they just took content away from me so people who don't want to buy the expansion can get an achievement.....
Click to expand...

The fact that people on PC who bought the base game only had 6 weeks to gear up to even try that content before it was removed was a much larger mistake than re-opening the prestige raid will be.
 
jbc029 said:
The fact that people on PC who bought the base game only had 6 weeks to gear up to even try that content before it was removed was a much larger mistake than re-opening the prestige raid will be.
Click to expand...
I know I play it on PC, my clan had only just started to figure it out as we are stubborn and don't want to watch walk through's on this shit as it really ruins the fun. I mean I have still having a blast with the game the expansion has been worth it. I am sending the dev team messages asking they add a new mode above prestige called SJW-Mode (short for Sweet Jesus Why) that scales to the current level cap. The abbreviation and its similarity to other terms is just so people who see it and don't know the context will have something to be all butt hurt about so they can feel included too. Because gaming is all about inclusion.

*edited for spelling
 
RogueTadhg said:
For the second time within a couple months, I believe.
Click to expand...
I haven't really considered anything people have been calling them out for bullshit, some of it mildly annoying but nothing I really noticed in my exploration of the game. I find leveling too fast and I wish there were more options for modifying guns or a better UI for the weapon stats the arbitrary bars for their stats with no real context bothers me but with a few minutes of use you can sorta figure it out. I would love to know specifics on optimal range weapon fall off distances reload speeds so those things could be fine tuned or optimized for specific play styles. But that would require a better UI for inventory management, but then console players will complain because really there is no good UI for inventory management on any console game that I know of so more butt hurt so there really is no way to win. So grab a beer get on discord with your friends shoot shit till your better judgement kicks in and you remind yourself you have work in the morning.
 
Lakados said:
I haven't really considered anything people have been calling them out for bullshit, some of it mildly annoying but nothing I really noticed in my exploration of the game. I find leveling too fast and I wish there were more options for modifying guns or a better UI for the weapon stats the arbitrary bars for their stats with no real context bothers me but with a few minutes of use you can sorta figure it out. I would love to know specifics on optimal range weapon fall off distances reload speeds so those things could be fine tuned or optimized for specific play styles. But that would require a better UI for inventory management, but then console players will complain because really there is no good UI for inventory management on any console game that I know of so more butt hurt so there really is no way to win. So grab a beer get on discord with your friends shoot shit till your better judgement kicks in and you remind yourself you have work in the morning.
Click to expand...

Alarms. Especially if I'm playing a game like Civ 5.
 
I don't keep it a secret that I'm a fan of both Destiny and Destiny 2. I have over 1k hours on Destiny, and I played Destiny 2 on the Xbox One for the 6 weeks it was out before PC, then bought Destiny 2 on PC with the season's pass. So I do feel like I've played enough to have some expert level first hand impressions of what's been going on. Also, because I'm so invested in the franchise, my passion is going to spill into a wall of text below.

I feel like Bungie is being held to an unattainable standard higher than any other developer. Yes, they've made some decisions I don't agree with, and they've made some outright mistakes. On the other hand, a lot of the mistakes that have been made have been blown WAY out of proportion, IMO.

The misrepresntation of XP progress was only a big deal as it relates to microtransactions, since both are used to attain cosmetics. Yes, some of the cosmetics have slight game influence, like increased xp rates, or better loot chest detection. They don't change the way the game is played, or give a competitive advantage. And buying into the microtransactions doesn't guarantee access to them anyway, it's all a gamble. So someone that would rather spend money than actually just play the game can gamble for a chance at getting a cosmetic that might have a slight advantage when farming for the loot that they didn't want to farm in the first place. Does the bother me? Not at all. Am I upset if others buy their way into loot? Absolutely not. Am I going to keep my eye on this behavior to see if it expands into something more offensive? Definitely.

Because of situations like the above, I have heard complaints about Bungie's lack of transparency. Claims that Bungie is somehow trying to screw us, or not provide what they promised. If anything, Bungie has been too transparent, with their weekly vlogs/blogs during their development processes sharing intentions for destiny's future. Yes, some of their promises have not come true (especially about having a solution to make repetitive loot exciting) but overall, they have shared with us upcoming content and the directions they've intended for the game to go. Had they not shared so much, would people be as upset?

Now, with the CoO DLC, some mistakes were made with how they handled content scaling. To my knowledge, only end-game aspects were affected, Trials of the Nine competitive PVP, Nightfall, and the raid. I 100% disagree with trials having switched to DLC owners only, and I don't think their solution of making it available depending on the map is a good enough solution (even though that's how it was done in D1). IMO, they should have two separate Trials modes, one for Vanilla, and one for CoO. However, their solution seems acceptable to me.

As for the nightfall and raid, they raised the level requirements, making the harder Prestige versions unavailable. The base versions were still accessible, but the hardest modes were not. This was obviously a simple way to try to keep the raids scaling and relevant, an issue in Destiny 1. I'm glad to see some of this being reverted, as the more logical solution is to just allow DLC owners to choose a higher level version of the event that then provides relevant rewards.

Although I didn't think the change was a good idea, the number of people this actually affected was probably quite small, much smaller than the news would make it seem. For those unfamiliar with raids in Destiny, they require players to be well equipped, familiar with classes and abilities, have pre-made groups of 6 players (matchmaking is not an option) and test their skills and communication through a series of challenges using mechanics often not found elsewhere in the game. It requires significantly more investment and commitment than any other aspect of the game. The prestige mode turns that up to 11. I have no data on this, but I would guess the percentage of Destiny 2's player base that is that committed to the game, but not interested in the DLC is probably in the low single digits, if not <1%. This doesn't make the change right. Initially released content should not be behind a paywall. But that being said, it just isn't as big of a deal as these articles make it sound like.

Some other notable FPS that I've loved in the recent past, Doom and Titanfall 2, don't have nearly the content Destiny 2 offers. Doom's DLC was entirely multiplayer maps, modes, and cosmetics. I was offended that they decided to make the DLC multiplayer only, it almost felt like they didn't know what they had or what was good about their game. Sure, there have been a few small complaints here and there, but not the repeated headlines Destiny 2 has been getting. I'm not sure why people are so quick to grab their ptichforks and torches regarding Bungie. I know I've already invested hundreds of hours, and plan to play hundreds more with no regrets. Money well spent, IMO.


Bigdady92 said:
1.5hours of single player
1 new strike
1 new group event
some new skins and weapons
10 levels and 25 light levels to grind out

$20 worth of content?

No
Click to expand...

And a new raid lair.
Still more content than PUBG.
 
  • Like
Reactions: egads
like this
Now if only I could play for more then 5 minutes without crashing.

Another update and another one that does not fix the game for me or the many others that are constantly crashing.:cry:
 
I agree with you on this. Yeah, it's not a perfect game but it is more fun than Destiny 1 and many other games I've played recently. And I've more than gotten my money's worth out of it.

Some of their mistakes are actually fun. The whole Prometheus Lens fiasco was a hoot with all the lasers flying around this past weekend.


CrazyRob said:
I don't keep it a secret that I'm a fan of both Destiny and Destiny 2. I have over 1k hours on Destiny, and I played Destiny 2 on the Xbox One for the 6 weeks it was out before PC, then bought Destiny 2 on PC with the season's pass. So I do feel like I've played enough to have some expert level first hand impressions of what's been going on. Also, because I'm so invested in the franchise, my passion is going to spill into a wall of text below.

I feel like Bungie is being held to an unattainable standard higher than any other developer. Yes, they've made some decisions I don't agree with, and they've made some outright mistakes. On the other hand, a lot of the mistakes that have been made have been blown WAY out of proportion, IMO.

The misrepresntation of XP progress was only a big deal as it relates to microtransactions, since both are used to attain cosmetics. Yes, some of the cosmetics have slight game influence, like increased xp rates, or better loot chest detection. They don't change the way the game is played, or give a competitive advantage. And buying into the microtransactions doesn't guarantee access to them anyway, it's all a gamble. So someone that would rather spend money than actually just play the game can gamble for a chance at getting a cosmetic that might have a slight advantage when farming for the loot that they didn't want to farm in the first place. Does the bother me? Not at all. Am I upset if others buy their way into loot? Absolutely not. Am I going to keep my eye on this behavior to see if it expands into something more offensive? Definitely.

Because of situations like the above, I have heard complaints about Bungie's lack of transparency. Claims that Bungie is somehow trying to screw us, or not provide what they promised. If anything, Bungie has been too transparent, with their weekly vlogs/blogs during their development processes sharing intentions for destiny's future. Yes, some of their promises have not come true (especially about having a solution to make repetitive loot exciting) but overall, they have shared with us upcoming content and the directions they've intended for the game to go. Had they not shared so much, would people be as upset?

Now, with the CoO DLC, some mistakes were made with how they handled content scaling. To my knowledge, only end-game aspects were affected, Trials of the Nine competitive PVP, Nightfall, and the raid. I 100% disagree with trials having switched to DLC owners only, and I don't think their solution of making it available depending on the map is a good enough solution (even though that's how it was done in D1). IMO, they should have two separate Trials modes, one for Vanilla, and one for CoO. However, their solution seems acceptable to me.

As for the nightfall and raid, they raised the level requirements, making the harder Prestige versions unavailable. The base versions were still accessible, but the hardest modes were not. This was obviously a simple way to try to keep the raids scaling and relevant, an issue in Destiny 1. I'm glad to see some of this being reverted, as the more logical solution is to just allow DLC owners to choose a higher level version of the event that then provides relevant rewards.

Although I didn't think the change was a good idea, the number of people this actually affected was probably quite small, much smaller than the news would make it seem. For those unfamiliar with raids in Destiny, they require players to be well equipped, familiar with classes and abilities, have pre-made groups of 6 players (matchmaking is not an option) and test their skills and communication through a series of challenges using mechanics often not found elsewhere in the game. It requires significantly more investment and commitment than any other aspect of the game. The prestige mode turns that up to 11. I have no data on this, but I would guess the percentage of Destiny 2's player base that is that committed to the game, but not interested in the DLC is probably in the low single digits, if not <1%. This doesn't make the change right. Initially released content should not be behind a paywall. But that being said, it just isn't as big of a deal as these articles make it sound like.

Some other notable FPS that I've loved in the recent past, Doom and Titanfall 2, don't have nearly the content Destiny 2 offers. Doom's DLC was entirely multiplayer maps, modes, and cosmetics. I was offended that they decided to make the DLC multiplayer only, it almost felt like they didn't know what they had or what was good about their game. Sure, there have been a few small complaints here and there, but not the repeated headlines Destiny 2 has been getting. I'm not sure why people are so quick to grab their ptichforks and torches regarding Bungie. I know I've already invested hundreds of hours, and plan to play hundreds more with no regrets. Money well spent, IMO.




And a new raid lair.
Still more content than PUBG.
Click to expand...
 
I'm going to say +1 to the "Destiny gets more hate than it deserves" guys

I put over almost 400 hours into D1 and didn't even get the very last DLC. There's way more in D2 than there was in D1 at this point in its life. And there's more to the DLC than just 1-3 hours. It's no taken king but it's also half the price.

I've got 60 hours in on D2 now and im only 320 on my main, only 210/20 On my alt and I'm only lv11 and haven't even finished the story on my titan. I haven't done the raids and only finished 3 nightfall so far. I've only done one of the 11 verses from CoO end game and only completed on heroic so far. I can't think of many other triple A games I put this much time into and still have a long way to go yet. I don't get the there's nothing to do and I beat it all in 20 hours arguments. Seriously, there's a ton of stuff tool do and Its better than D1 was at this point.

You just can't please some folks and this is the game to hate. People hated how grindy D1 was so they made D2 less grindy. Then folks were mad. So they added more grind and stuff back in CoO and now folks bitch about that.

O and yea, the loot boxes are cosmetic, nothing you get from a loot box makes you better. You may see a chest 20 meters farther out than normal on one planet but that's it. You want to spend your Money? Knock yourself out. Battlefront 2 this is not.
 
Vaulter98c said:
I'm going to say +1 to the "Destiny gets more hate than it deserves" guys

I put over almost 400 hours into D1 and didn't even get the very last DLC. There's way more in D2 than there was in D1 at this point in its life. And there's more to the DLC than just 1-3 hours. It's no taken king but it's also half the price.

I've got 60 hours in on D2 now and im only 320 on my main, only 210/20 On my alt and I'm only lv11 and haven't even finished the story on my titan. I haven't done the raids and only finished 3 nightfall so far. I've only done one of the 11 verses from CoO end game and only completed on heroic so far. I can't think of many other triple A games I put this much time into and still have a long way to go yet. I don't get the there's nothing to do and I beat it all in 20 hours arguments. Seriously, there's a ton of stuff tool do and Its better than D1 was at this point.

You just can't please some folks and this is the game to hate. People hated how grindy D1 was so they made D2 less grindy. Then folks were mad. So they added more grind and stuff back in CoO and now folks bitch about that.

O and yea, the loot boxes are cosmetic, nothing you get from a loot box makes you better. You may see a chest 20 meters farther out than normal on one planet but that's it. You want to spend your Money? Knock yourself out. Battlefront 2 this is not.
Click to expand...

So you are saying the backlash against EA and Bungie is completely unwarranted and has no merit?

The Destiny franchise was built on the community that showed up day in and day out for years. That is what made the game what it was. It wasn't a pump and dump game. The current incarnation of Destiny is nothing what it once was; it is shallow and hollow. The amount of YT videos and twitch streams are a solid measure of how well a game is doing beyond "X copies sold". Right now D2 is failing hard on BOTH those metrics. The guild activity metrics are also tanked as well. The 100 wihch was a great place ot find groups for games like destiny are also sadly quiet. So when you look at the community activity metrics...D2 has failed. Couple that with the amount of trust that was given over the development of D1 and what was given with D2..shit.

And FYI...everyone bitches about grinding in loot based games..even people who like grinding bitch about grinding. It is what you do. It is like talking about your sports team on Monday even if you are a super fantasy league zealot or don't give a fuck what a football is. It is a social glue that gives some cohesiveness to non-identical groups. The goal of any game creator is to manage that grind to where it doesn't make people quit. It can go both ways...too much or too little.

And FYI..the real bitch about loot boxes is how much is hidden behind them compared to the regular game.

I really enjoyed trials this weekend (even though it was stupidly broken). Why? Because it was fun. Now...my guild is quiet again..I saw two people log in for Tuesday reset...and this is just shortly after DLC. Yep...the game is just fine. Just fine. Need to find a certain meme of a certain iraqi.
 
CrazyRob said:
Some other notable FPS that I've loved in the recent past, Doom and Titanfall 2, don't have nearly the content Destiny 2 offers. Doom's DLC was entirely multiplayer maps, modes, and cosmetics. I was offended that they decided to make the DLC multiplayer only, it almost felt like they didn't know what they had or what was good about their game. Sure, there have been a few small complaints here and there, but not the repeated headlines Destiny 2 has been getting. I'm not sure why people are so quick to grab their ptichforks and torches regarding Bungie. I know I've already invested hundreds of hours, and plan to play hundreds more with no regrets. Money well spent, IMO.


And a new raid lair.
Still more content than PUBG.
Click to expand...

Depends on how you define content. DOOM and TF2 both have real campaigns with carefully thought out level design and at least some amount of enemy AI. Destiny 2's content is primarily copy-paste style with enemy AI that's among the worst of bottom-barrel budget titles. In DOOM you have to keep moving or the enemies will be all over you; in Destiny 2 you just strafe in and out of cover in what amounts to a shooting gallery. Then you have the D2 multiplayer which is just standard 4v4 modes in tiny maps. PUBG has 2 massive maps that have random aspects, 100 players, in-game voice chat, and is half the price while not having any DLC; that's more content than bullet sponge brain-dead enemies and 4v4 Halo-style maps.


Vaulter98c said:
I've got 60 hours in on D2 now and im only 320 on my main, only 210/20 On my alt and I'm only lv11 and haven't even finished the story on my titan. I haven't done the raids and only finished 3 nightfall so far. I've only done one of the 11 verses from CoO end game and only completed on heroic so far. I can't think of many other triple A games I put this much time into and still have a long way to go yet. I don't get the there's nothing to do and I beat it all in 20 hours arguments. Seriously, there's a ton of stuff tool do and Its better than D1 was at this point.

You just can't please some folks and this is the game to hate. People hated how grindy D1 was so they made D2 less grindy. Then folks were mad. So they added more grind and stuff back in CoO and now folks bitch about that.
Click to expand...

I have between 20 and 30 hours in D2. That was finishing the campaign, doing almost all of the quests, public events, and a strike or two. There is nothing left to do as everything in this game feels the same and ; the only challenge is getting through huge amounts of enemy HP. The group I started with at release lasted a bit longer but they all quit a couple of weeks ago.

Destiny 2 = The Division:Outer Space
 
The Destiny 2 engrams that you would pay for contain cosmetics only, you may get an exotic item but those items are in the general drop pool and can be obtained by random from any other engram, they are no way similar to the EA loot boxes that give items and characters that have direct impacts on game play and progression they are not at all comparable. I agree Clan activity is tough but that may be because unless you and your friends get together and create a clan you are most likely going to end up in one from some random invite do to the complete lack of a chat system, which I like. It feels more like a single player game I can play with my friends than an MMO there is match making for the quick stuff and 90% of the content is soloable outside of the obvious Strikes (can be solo'd but more of a time sink than I am willing to do), and 6 man raids. Honestly I really like the raids the puzzle mechanics are entertaining we're finding them actually fun to solve and figure out unlike most other games of this type where you would normally just google it to get it done and out of the way.
Could they have done some things better or differently yeah, but I think they are doing well enough and even if the game is limited to our solar system, that gives 8 planets with an accompanying 181 natural moons, 1 dwarf planet, and a likely possibility of an additional planet as NASA is pretty sure there is one more out there. Not to mention what ever sci-fi orbital stations they decide to throw into the mix. Throw in some planet sized space ships and weird time traveling inter dimensional Necron knockoffs and a couple of beers and you have yourself a good time.
 
Trepidati0n said:
So you are saying the backlash against EA and Bungie is completely unwarranted and has no merit?

The Destiny franchise was built on the community that showed up day in and day out for years. That is what made the game what it was. It wasn't a pump and dump game. The current incarnation of Destiny is nothing what it once was; it is shallow and hollow. The amount of YT videos and twitch streams are a solid measure of how well a game is doing beyond "X copies sold". Right now D2 is failing hard on BOTH those metrics. The guild activity metrics are also tanked as well. The 100 wihch was a great place ot find groups for games like destiny are also sadly quiet. So when you look at the community activity metrics...D2 has failed. Couple that with the amount of trust that was given over the development of D1 and what was given with D2..shit.

And FYI...everyone bitches about grinding in loot based games..even people who like grinding bitch about grinding. It is what you do. It is like talking about your sports team on Monday even if you are a super fantasy league zealot or don't give a fuck what a football is. It is a social glue that gives some cohesiveness to non-identical groups. The goal of any game creator is to manage that grind to where it doesn't make people quit. It can go both ways...too much or too little.

And FYI..the real bitch about loot boxes is how much is hidden behind them compared to the regular game.

I really enjoyed trials this weekend (even though it was stupidly broken). Why? Because it was fun. Now...my guild is quiet again..I saw two people log in for Tuesday reset...and this is just shortly after DLC. Yep...the game is just fine. Just fine. Need to find a certain meme of a certain iraqi.
Click to expand...

Show me where I said it has no merit. Please, point out that exact line where I said there is no merit. Sure people can bitch, but you can't deny a lot of this is people jumping on the hate train because it's the next popular thing to shit on. Sure there are issues which I acknowledge but I also acknowledge that there is more here than there was in D1 3 months in. Also, I specifically mentioned that this isn't BF2. I get the hate people throw at BF2 because the entirety of the game was designed around forcing PROGRESSION and game changing elements behind the loot boxes. I was on that train as well as soon as I finished my first match in the beta.

But Destiny loot boxes have nothing to do with progression or game changing stats and are 99% cosmetic and the few pieces that had any affect in the game we're shit like "find boxes 50m out instead of 40m out" Or "Instead of getting a 1 in 100 chance for the worst currency in the game (weapon telemetry) with one class of weapons you can now get a 1 in 100 chance of getting the worst currency on 3 weapons!" or my favorite "get a sparrow that is so much barely faster than other ones that you need like a half mile straight away just to put 10m ahead of the guy next to you". That in no way compares to BF2. Period. As I stated

Also, if you use the example of youtube videos and your specific clan being baren that sounds more like something on you. We still have 6-10 guys on from a 25 man clan every single night.

At the end of the day I don't care what you play or what you like, but if I see something that's blatantly not true I'll call it out. There is more content in D2 than D1 at 3 months. Is it a perfect game? No. Is there as many people playing as there was in D1? No. Is it solely because of what you say no. There are tons of factors. There was nothing quite like destiny 3 years ago. That's changed now.
 
Finishing the DLC makes me laugh. You can't finish the prophecies yet because they're time gated. You can do 7 plus shotgun as of this week.

Not to mention they haven't added the prestige version of EoW yet.

With masterwork weapons added I've still only got my primary made into one and it doesn't have the bonus I want so it needs rerolled.

D2 is in a way better place than D1 was at this point in its life.

Bungie's problem is they try to please the unpleasable.

Literally the same people bitching about no grind the past 3 months are on the DTG reddit bitching that MW and prophecy grind is too long.

Sigh.

I have over 400 hours in D2 between X1 and PC. My 3 characters are 334, 334, 332 atm. I've cleared all the content as well. So, ya. Still enjoying every single log in.
 
OpStar said:
Finishing the DLC makes me laugh. You can't finish the prophecies yet because they're time gated. You can do 7 plus shotgun as of this week.

Not to mention they haven't added the prestige version of EoW yet.

With masterwork weapons added I've still only got my primary made into one and it doesn't have the bonus I want so it needs rerolled.
Click to expand...

My complaint with this game was all of this should have been in prior to a DLC 2 months down the road which they wanted more money for. I mean if the game was like 20 bucks and then 2 months later another 20, i wouldnt have complained but 60 upfront to have minimal content and need to throw more at it for what a raid and a strike?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top