Seasonic (& others) are doing SATA power wrong

L

Luke M

Gawd
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
618
SATA power cables shouldn't include 3.3v. Nothing uses it, so it just makes the cable bulkier. But even worse, the SATA power spec has changed (as of 2016) - one of the pins previously spec'ed for 3.3v has been repurposed for non-power use. As a result, some (non-retail) SATA drives WILL NOT WORK with Seasonic (& other) power supplies. And the PSU makers don't seem to be aware of this, because it affects even 2017 model PSUs.

Power supply reviewers take note.

Reference:
https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Power-Disable-Pin-TB.pdf
 
it's to power on a spinner when inserted in to a hot swap bay so the device is recognized properly.

that's why the pins are longer.
 
Luke M said:
SATA power cables shouldn't include 3.3v. Nothing uses it, so it just makes the cable bulkier. But even worse, the SATA power spec has changed (as of 2016) - one of the pins previously spec'ed for 3.3v has been repurposed for non-power use. As a result, some (non-retail) SATA drives WILL NOT WORK with Seasonic (& other) power supplies. And the PSU makers don't seem to be aware of this, because it affects even 2017 model PSUs.

Power supply reviewers take note.

Reference:
https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Power-Disable-Pin-TB.pdf
Click to expand...

Hello Luke,

Thank you for your message.
You will find in our new PRIME Ultra Series, an accessory that will make the usual SATA connector compatible with these new HDD using SATA 3.3. You may want to read here for more information.

Thank you.
Best Regards,
 
Seasonic Rep said:
Hello Luke,

Thank you for your message.
You will find in our new PRIME Ultra Series, an accessory that will make the usual SATA connector compatible with these new HDD using SATA 3.3. You may want to read here for more information.

Thank you.
Best Regards,
Click to expand...

I have a Focus+. Will you send me the adapter? (I assume it's a SATA->SATA extension?)
 
Hello Luke,

Right now, we don't have spare parts for accessories and FOCUs Plus is not planned to get it for now. So I may suggest you send us an email in order to have your info and see if we can do anything to help you on this.

Thank you.
Best Regards,
 
To be fair, original sata spec did include 3.3v power which was an option for devices including spinning rust to use, so PSU makers (like, all of them) have been following this correctly for over a decade. The drive makers largely ignored this option except in mobile/smaller form factors; one of the main reasons was the entrenched legacy of "molex" 4pin being 5/12V only and converters being very popular.

The 3.3v sense thing is quite new (paper 2/2016, devices a few months ago) and if there is any "blame" in ham-fisted appropriation of in-spec-but-unused-because-reasons pins it is squarely on the shoulders of the drive OEMs. Other ATX changes like 20+4, the shift over to mostly 12V and haswell sleep were pretty smooth in advance of becoming mainstream in devices. You can't expect them to retool products already in the chain, going to be adapters for awhile. Its an enterprise drive feature only tbh, shuckers running into this from dumb supply channel price discrimination is a side effect really.
 
But they don't have to retool anything. Just get rid of the 3.3v. Nothing uses it.
 
Yes, this is a drive manufacturer issue if anything. Not a PSU issue.
 
Luke M said:
But they don't have to retool anything. Just get rid of the 3.3v. Nothing uses it.
Click to expand...

They probably will eventually but only a fool would pull inventory over this. They throw in cheap freebies for the high end retail for customer happyjoyjoy points where some margin is.

Cut the 3.3v wire if it matters that much, the PSUs are in the published spec they were designed for and did nothing wrong, there is 0 issue except with this very edge case with non-retail products. I promise you if seasonic or others get ODM wins for a server chassis design it will only have exactly the wires at exactly the length the server vendor asks for.

Using shucked repurposed enterprise drives to save $$$ is a DIY move that comes with caveats, you learn to roll with it and enjoy the savings because drive OEMs are weird and stubborn about their supply channel or you go whine on forums about the wrong party /shrug.
I wouldn't whine too hard (or at all) the other way either though: Sooner or later WD (or Seagate, since you only have 2 to choose from) is going to fuck over something you can't work around like firmware or bake the usb controller into the drive pcb. Then we all lose.
 
Luke M said:
But they don't have to retool anything. Just get rid of the 3.3v. Nothing uses it.
Click to expand...

If it is in the spec, they have to put it in. A change in spec will take years to implement fully, especially one as trivial and minor as this.
 
Tsumi said:
If it is in the spec, they have to put it in. A change in spec will take years to implement fully, especially one as trivial and minor as this.
Click to expand...

They ignored the new spec. They should have ignored the old spec (many did)!
 
Luke M said:
They ignored the new spec. They should have ignored the old spec (many did)!
Click to expand...

Which reputable PSU manufacturer ignored the old spec? Please, enlighten us.

Products are in development for years. It takes time to make changes to an assembly line. It is not as simple as hitting a check box. In fact, a change to an assembly line can be more costly than the little bit of raw material wasted over the product lifecycle.
 
Luke M said:
They ignored the new spec. They should have ignored the old spec (many did)!
Click to expand...

Thank you for trying to tell major OEMs how to conduct businesses that they've run, successfully, for years/decades!

New spec = new SKU.

Not "rejigger old SKU".

ESPECIALLY not when drive manufacturers simply spackled over and appropriated a pre-assigned in-spec function.

If you're still sandy about it, return your PSU if possible and buy one that's compliant with the newer spec.
 
I apologize if I brought up a subject that was dull old news to everyone. It was fresh to me...
 
Luke M said:
I apologize if I brought up a subject that was dull old news to everyone. It was fresh to me...
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with the age of the news and everything to do with your attitude.
 
Hi Guys,

So in the end, Seasonic is not doing anything wrong as the title may suggest, right? :D

Thanks a lot.
Best Regards,
 
Seasonic Rep said:
Hi Guys,

So in the end, Seasonic is not doing anything wrong as the title may suggest, right? :D

Thanks a lot.
Best Regards,
Click to expand...

Of course you're doing something wrong! I'm not getting any Free Stuff™ am I?

;)

It's all about ME!
ME! ME! ME!
 
Chas said:
Of course you're doing something wrong! I'm not getting any Free Stuff™ am I?

;)

It's all about ME!
ME! ME! ME!
Click to expand...

Hi Chas,

If you are good enough with Seasonic logo/PSU and Christmas spirit, we have a Christmas game running right now... maybe you can get your free stuff there. ;)

Best Regards,
 
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