Surface Book 2 Can’t Stay Charged during Gaming Sessions

Megalith

Megalith

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While plugged into the supplied charger, the battery in the Surface Book 2 will drain during certain games if the power settings are set to max performance to fully utilize the power of the hardware. The amount of drain varies between games, screen resolution, and maximum load on the GPU. Microsoft says that it’s not a bug—it’s a feature.

It’s when you adjust the performance higher that things get interesting. Each performance increment appears to make adjustments to the GPU clock speed and fan speed. Flipping the slider to the midrange setting dials up the fan noise, while the maximum setting ramps it up even further, to the loud “whoosh” most gaming notebooks provide. It’s at this point that the Surface Book 2 begins tapping the battery for extra power, proof that the charger can’t keep up.
 
No one is surprised, or should be. If it wouldn't charge while compiling sql data into a spreadsheet I would be worried.
 
cyclone3d said:
Will a higher output charger help or is the charging circuit to blame?
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From the article:
Microsoft labels the charger as a 102-watt charger, though its rated output is 1.5A at 120 volts. Based upon a power meter we connected the Surface Book 2 too, it draws 101 watts from the wall.
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I have questions:

We used the FurMark graphics benchmark/stress test in a 1280x720 window, in conjunction with the Prime95 CPU stress test.
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So that was the scenario they show causes it to start to dip into the battery while connected to a charger.

After an hour and 45 minutes of prolonged stress testing, the overall battery state had dropped by 15 percent
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So these means that with fully charged battery you're looking at 11.5+ hours of worst case scenario power draw before the battery is drained.

I don't see an example of this occurring during normal usage/gaming though? At least no details in the article I read...
 
IIRC the Macbook Air did the same thing--the charger supplied less power than the laptop was able to consume in the worst case scenario. So if you were gaming and pushing it to the limit, it would draw as much as it could from the power adapter, and then pull whatever else it needed out of the battery.
 
Mohonri said:
IIRC the Macbook Air did the same thing--the charger supplied less power than the laptop was able to consume in the worst case scenario. So if you were gaming and pushing it to the limit, it would draw as much as it could from the power adapter, and then pull whatever else it needed out of the battery.
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So Apple did it first? :p
 
Mohonri said:
IIRC the Macbook Air did the same thing--the charger supplied less power than the laptop was able to consume in the worst case scenario. So if you were gaming and pushing it to the limit, it would draw as much as it could from the power adapter, and then pull whatever else it needed out of the battery.
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Well that wasn't a problem for Apple. It was a feature.
 
I don't know if a beefier charger will help, I have a 1st gen surface book and if they are using the same power connector I don't know about pushing 150 watts over that little turd...
 
I saw some reviews for this.

microsoft fucked up and didn't supply a strong enough power brick for the wattage this draws. Dumbass oversight.

Also, since this shit can't be opened without damage, it won't take long before the heatsink fan is clogged with dust.
 
Kdawg said:
I saw some reviews for this.

microsoft fucked up and didn't supply a strong enough power brick for the wattage this draws. Dumbass oversight.

Also, since this shit can't be opened without damage, it won't take long before the heatsink fan is clogged with dust.
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I guess we found the reason why MS suck so badly.
 
Kdawg said:
I saw some reviews for this.

microsoft fucked up and didn't supply a strong enough power brick for the wattage this draws. Dumbass oversight.

Also, since this shit can't be opened without damage, it won't take long before the heatsink fan is clogged with dust.
Click to expand...

It's probably not just the brick, the battery might be thermally saturated given all the heat around it.
 
Track Drew said:
From the article:
...Microsoft labels the charger as a 102-watt charger, though its rated output is 1.5A at 120 volts. Based upon a power meter we connected the Surface Book 2 too, it draws 101 watts from the wall.
Click to expand...

The writer seems to be using contradictory numbers.

120 volts x 1.5 amp = 180 watts output

120v is obviously a US style outlet supply 'cuz 120v DC output at 1.5a is just ludicrous

While I could not find the specs on the chargers this page, https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-book-2-tech-specs mentions completely different numbers.

"All Surface Book 2s use the proprietary magnetic Surface Connect port and charger for power
The Core i5 13-inch uses a small 39W charger, while the Core i7 models (13-inch and 15-inch) both have larger 95W Surface chargers.
While both Core i7 Surface 95W chargers also have a secondary USB Type-A port for charging peripherals, the 15-inch charger supports 7.5W versus just 5W for the 13-inch model."
 
Wade88 said:
I don't know if a beefier charger will help, I have a 1st gen surface book and if they are using the same power connector I don't know about pushing 150 watts over that little turd...
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I think that's the main issue here. Is when you standardize a charger, you don't want to have to create a new connector because you now have a model that requires more than you ever intended. The connector was originally designed for the Surface Pro, which didn't even have discrete graphics on it. I'm sure they weren't expecting to see a laptop that uses over 100W of power continuously.



otherweeb said:
The writer seems to be using contradictory numbers.

120 volts x 1.5 amp = 180 watts output

120v is obviously a US style outlet supply 'cuz 120v DC output at 1.5a is just ludicrous

While I could not find the specs on the chargers this page, https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-book-2-tech-specs mentions completely different numbers.

"All Surface Book 2s use the proprietary magnetic Surface Connect port and charger for power
The Core i5 13-inch uses a small 39W charger, while the Core i7 models (13-inch and 15-inch) both have larger 95W Surface chargers.
While both Core i7 Surface 95W chargers also have a secondary USB Type-A port for charging peripherals, the 15-inch charger supports 7.5W versus just 5W for the 13-inch model."
Click to expand...

Yea I also question what they were trying to say there. They don't really know what they are talking about at all. I'm sure they meant 120V AC x 1.5A input, because no computer uses AC to actually power the electronics. Like you said even then you're talking about 180W power draw from the wall, and if you figure only 75% efficient at 100% load that's still 135W which is much larger than the charger is. So realistically that charger at full load should only ever be pulling around ~130W from the wall at full load.


There has already been reports there was a bug with the dock not actually supplying full power to the device, and they had to issue a firmware update to the dock to fix it. If they are only seeing 100W draw from the wall then either the charger labeling is not labeled like all other chargers, or it's not actually hitting full capacity.
 
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Ya'll are lucky. I've experienced this on many small form factor devices. Windows tablets, iPads, the god damn Nintendo switch controller.

Microsoft has long made a power supply that is capable of supplying this kind of power for long durations. And everyone bitches about the size.

xbox_one_power_brick.jpg
 
westrock2000 said:
Ya'll are lucky. I've experienced this on many small form factor devices. Windows tablets, iPads, the god damn Nintendo switch controller.

Microsoft has long made a power supply that is capable of supplying this kind of power for long durations. And everyone bitches about the size.

xbox_one_power_brick.jpg
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That doesn't look that bad...wasn't the X360 one a massive fucking brick?
 
design oversight.

Same thing happened with some Asus laptops where they didn't supply a big enough brick for the gtx1070, so it was eating battery juice even when plugged in.
 
otherweeb said:
The writer seems to be using contradictory numbers.

120 volts x 1.5 amp = 180 watts output

120v is obviously a US style outlet supply 'cuz 120v DC output at 1.5a is just ludicrous

While I could not find the specs on the chargers this page, https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-book-2-tech-specs mentions completely different numbers.

"All Surface Book 2s use the proprietary magnetic Surface Connect port and charger for power
The Core i5 13-inch uses a small 39W charger, while the Core i7 models (13-inch and 15-inch) both have larger 95W Surface chargers.
While both Core i7 Surface 95W chargers also have a secondary USB Type-A port for charging peripherals, the 15-inch charger supports 7.5W versus just 5W for the 13-inch model."
Click to expand...

AC Power has this thing called Power Factor, so it plays a little bit funny. It's kind of like an efficiency because of phase shift.

A purely restive load will have a power factor of 1.0. Those are items like toasters and electric stoves.

Wound electric motors are usually around 0.8

Power electronics, particularly rectifier based, ~can~ be pretty bad, I've heard of as low as 0.5

If Microsoft is saying a 1.5A 120V power supply is rated at 102W, that's perfectly plausible, as it would put the power factor somewhere around 0.6 power factor. Once you stack a typical 90% efficiency on top of that, and your right at the 100-110W ballpark.
 
Apple does like to lead the way with new features.

Insane though.

My iPad air can only slowly charge from the USB on my computer. Even the charger one. That's on reading a book or Web page.
 
Elf_Boy said:
Apple does like to lead the way with new features.

Insane though.

My iPad air can only slowly charge from the USB on my computer. Even the charger one. That's on reading a book or Web page.
Click to expand...

I could never get any of my mobile device charge fast with computer. I can only do that through wall plug. Seems like a limitation of USB port on desktop.
 
westrock2000 said:
Ya'll are lucky. I've experienced this on many small form factor devices. Windows tablets, iPads, the god damn Nintendo switch controller.

Microsoft has long made a power supply that is capable of supplying this kind of power for long durations. And everyone bitches about the size.
Click to expand...

LOL iPad's have never had this issue with the proper charger, they could possibly if you use a crap charger that only outputs 500ma but thats your problem, not the devices. Unless you can invent free energy.
 
Too bad to hear, but if anyone ever gets the chance to see a surface book 2 in store.... They really are a thing of beauty... Quad core hyperthreaded 15W cpu with a gtx 1060 in such a form factor all while being able to disconnect from the keyboard (housing the 1060) and go into tablet mode... Very neat, albeit overpriced, stuff.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
You should probably get a real computer for gaming.
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That's why I use a Piledriver dual core apu in my laptop for dedicated word processing and age of empires. And then an X99 comptuter and 1070 for everything else. (The apu gets a paltry 78 in cinebench R15 while my desktop gets 1300)

I don't personally see the value in investing in a device that will be disposable once something better comes out.

From a technical perspective it is impressive in addition to the general recent laptop trends blurring the lines between mobile and desktop.
 
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So if you run prime95 that pulls a unrealistic amount of power from the CPU and run a GPU bench mark that pulls an unrealistic amount of power all at the same time it drains the battery while plugged in. So where in this is there a problem? Because I don't see any one doing this on the day to day. Like saying my car gets crappy mpg when I ran the whole tank out drag racing the 1/4 mile all day.
 
Makeroflostsouls said:
So if you run prime95 that pulls a unrealistic amount of power from the CPU and run a GPU bench mark that pulls an unrealistic amount of power all at the same time it drains the battery while plugged in. So where in this is there a problem? Because I don't see any one doing this on the day to day. Like saying my car gets crappy mpg when I ran the whole tank out drag racing the 1/4 mile all day.
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Yep. I don't see this being a real-world problem but more of a manufactured one for a test to see how much stress it could handle. If you design for this sort of stress your device is going to be heavier and bulkier than it needs to be for 99% of its use.
 
I have the 15 and have gamed at native 3240x2160 res and not yet encountered this issue. I'm afraid I don't have a lot of time to test or game (sad I know). But stress tests of course push things too far. Some games at utter extreme settings can cause the issue but again I have not yet encountered it. In the real world this machine is a sheer joy to use, built from a solid slab of magnesium and with battery life that is easily over 10 hours, likely close to 12 if I pushed it. I think we'll need to see more real world testing to see just how often this really comes up as an issue. MS says it can happen, so this isn't a belief thing. But if it comes up pretty rarely and even when it does you can still go 9-10 hours before draining the battery, I suspect this may impact real users very little. Using a quad core machine this fast and this light for an entire workday without a plug is amazing. To plug it in and fire up a game when I'm done with that day is just icing on the cake.
 
I just need it to last for a few cuphead levels at a time. No biggie.
 
While this is certainly concerning, it's not unheard of in gaming laptops either.

My old GT60-2OD from MSI has a power brick rated at 180w, contemporary AW laptops had 220-250w bricks. The i7-4800MQ, while being a 45w processor, could draw over 60w under load. And a GTX 780m/880m/980m can also do >100w.
Basically under normal situations, only the CPU or GPU could turbo, thermals aside.

If you enabled Hybrid-Q mode, it would tap into the battery during heavy load, and kill about 10-20% every hour of gaming. What did this get you? Both CPU/GPU could hold longer turbos.
Some people decided to simply mod the system to use Dell power bricks, and supposedly that allowed them to achieve higher sustained OCs.
 
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Only have to run 2 unrealistic torture benchmarks combined and then only get half a day? *rage* :D
 
upload_2017-12-23_21-16-8.png


Just got my SB2 15" 512GB in a couple of days ago. This battery drain while connected to power is easy to reproduce and I've seen it but I just don't see it being a big problem for someone that would actually need and or want this device, more on that later.

So I've not had a lot of time with this thing but Dan Rubino over on Windows Central had a good article on this problem: https://www.windowscentral.com/does-surface-book-2-15-battery-drain. His observations seem to be the most comprehensive I've seen and seem to mirror mine. It depends. First of all, it only happens when the Power Mode is at Best Performance. And it can be counter-intuitive. Running Wolfenstein II: New Colossus at Mein leben! settings at 1920x1200, silky smooth 60 FPS and no drain. Running what would seem a much less intensive game, the indie hit from last year Inside that I just got into, run it the native SB 15" 3240x2160 resolution, power drain, around 10% an hour. The screen on the 15" seems to be taking a lot of power at native resolution. Run it at Balanced Power settings and now drain.

So the problem is not enough power running this thing at it sustained max capacity which also has a near 4k screen. So a problem but how buys 4lbs laptops to run then at max for hours on end? It's not a gaming laptop but it can do it well. Not sure if the problem is just too small a power supply or not being able to drive more power through the device itself but I'm thinking it's more of the latter. I have the SB1 and the cabling on the SB2 power brick is substantially thicker so I think MS understood very well what was going on and delivered what that thought was right though it may have been wrong.

This device overall is insane. I see it as a love letter to old Tablet PC folks like me, a full sized convertible laptop that's actually much better than the majority of conventional laptops. It's not light but for a 15" laptop very much in line. Great screen, great battery life, fast, plays modern games at 1080P well even at balanced performance without batter drain on power. No bad hot spots when using it as tablet, the fans don't kick up without pushing it. In tablet mode, it's too big for typical table use but a fantastic canvas for writing and drawing.

As has always been my recommendation for convertibles, don't even bother unless you plan to use it as such. That's the kicker for the convertible laptops. Just don't buy them unless you expect you them some significant time as a tablet as the form factor adds a lot of cost.
I
 
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