Hi end headphones with Sennheiser Amp?

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tangoseal

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I was thinking of getting a set of HD 600 by Sennheiser and a GSX1000 to go along with it for gaming and audiophile listening while reading etc...

Is there any one here that has any experience gaming and listening to music with the HD 600s especially connected to the GSX1000 amplifier?
 
Nope- I use my HD600's with an O2/ODAC combo device plugged into USB, but I'd just as easily recommend a Schiit stack that can handle optical input as well as USB.

What the GSX1000 does in addition to being a USB DAC/Amp is all in software, and I use Razer's surround software for that- but you can just as easily use the Dolby stuff that comes with Windows now, and most games do a great job with surround as well.

[Razer's software turns your amp and headphones into a 7.1 audio target, and provides an inline software EQ as well, so I didn't mind paying for it]
 
Also, I do recommend an HD650 set for gaming. They're less 'neutral', but in a way that is more conducive to games, i.e., more bass, more clarity on the top end; also note that you're not going to get any 'bumping' bass out of these open cans.

[I've been looking at Beyerdynamic's T5p 2nd Gen; it's 'semi-open', which means it compromises between bass and soundstage rather than erring hard to one or the other (see DT880's as the middle ground between the closed DT770's and open DT990's)].
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Nope- I use my HD600's with an O2/ODAC combo device plugged into USB, but I'd just as easily recommend a Schiit stack that can handle optical input as well as USB.

What the GSX1000 does in addition to being a USB DAC/Amp is all in software, and I use Razer's surround software for that- but you can just as easily use the Dolby stuff that comes with Windows now, and most games do a great job with surround as well.

[Razer's software turns your amp and headphones into a 7.1 audio target, and provides an inline software EQ as well, so I didn't mind paying for it]
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edit...

Hrmm I am sorry man. I meant HD700 not 600. That was a type. I can't afford the 800s and was going to go for the 700s.

----- non edit below.

Hrmm Hardware Canucks gave the GSX1000 a mad review.

And according to them and Senn, there is no software in windows that does anything. Everything is processed in the actual device it's self. All the USB is for is just sending an audio stream.
I use Razer Tiamat 7.1 right now and its ok. The surround is great but the quality is very lacking to say it kindly.

I will take a look at what you are recommending. Have you tried the 700's I have seen some great deals on them. That is why I was asking but I am not opposed to looking at the ones you recommended.
 
With respect to the GSX1000- it's processed on the device itself, but it's the same basic idea. The HD700 are 150Ω, which matches the top of what the GSX1000 can push, and probably fine for the range of cans likely to be used for gaming, but top-end open cans can push 600Ω. I wouldn't buy an amp that pushes less than 600Ω.

Beyond that, what I've read, not heard, is that the HD700 are great at their price range, very comfortable (important!), and respond well to bass boosting in EQ if that's something you desire. I do that with my HD600's. The HD700's are also half of the price of the Beyers, which compete with the HD800 (not quite S) cans, so they're out of your price range (and mine!) for the moment.

Honestly below that level, get the HD700's from whomever you can return them to easily, and try them out with your onboard audio. My 300Ω HD600's were easily driven off of the onboard audio on my far more pedestrian Z170-AR. Not quite as smooth and clean off of a good DAC/Amp like my O2/ODAC, but they did work fine!
 
GSX surround is considered pretty good and if you get it you don't have to worry about whether each game supports Atmos or whatever. (Games need to implement Atmos/Sonic support for those features to function properly.) I'd say go for it.

I'd probably recommend something like the HD598 if you're using the GSX, which does not have a super powerful amp. I have never tried the HD700 but it has a polarizing opinions online about it and it's a big investment for your first "audiophile" cans. However it apparently has an enormous soundstage which is good for virtual surround so, maybe it will sound great. Don't know. But HD598 headphones are easy to drive, will be cheap this month for black friday deals most likely, and work very well for virtual surround purposes (good sounstage, good imaging, and not anemic bass for "fun" purposes as well). They also sound great for regular listening.

HD650 are fantastic, all-time great cans but soundstage is very "in your head." For surround gaming, I'm not a big fan of them.
 
All good information here. If your heart is set on the HD600 and beyond, get something with more power than the GSX 1000. I have been using the SoundBlaster ZxR that comes with a 600ohm DAC (really good surround emulation). For competitive shooters I use the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1x Open Air (on sale for 200 bucks right now), and the setup is scary good in PUBG. For games where I want a more immersive or cinematic experience I use my Beyerdyanmic MMX 300s (If you don't need the mic save a few bucks and buy the DT770). Despite being a closed headphone you still get good directional audio out of Beyerdynamic, and great bass.
 
So much info. Have to start doing even more research. Thanks so far everyone.
 
Also with schitt I have no idea what any of thier jargon means. Help?

Like differences in product names
 
What are you looking for? Do you want virtual surround or just great stereo audio?
 
This is the schiit stack as they referred:

Magni 3 headphone amp
Modi 2 DAC

I have used the Magni 2 as well as their higher end stuff and can tell you that it powers the Sennheiser HD800s just fine, so you should be good with anything Sennheiser you may desire.
 
tangoseal said:
Also with schitt I have no idea what any of thier jargon means. Help?

Like differences in product names
Click to expand...

I have a few of their products and can absolutely tell you that you'd be getting more than your money's worth. Their best product, imo, is the Jotunheim for a few reasons:

  1. It can drive 600Ω cans with ease.
  2. It has a line passthrough if you want your signal to carry through to speakers/etc.
  3. It has a balanced headphone port if you ever decide to upgrade your headphone cables with 4-pin XLR - some people swear by this and some don't hear a difference.
  4. It has 3 inputs - USB DAC (if you get the DAC module), RCA, and XLR.
If you're anywhere in the LA area, they have a location near Santa Clarita called the Schittr (lol) where you can try any of their products in a listening room with your own headphones or any of their's.

The Jotunheim with the USB DAC is $500, but it might be the last amp/dac you ever buy, depending on your needs in the future. For myself, I upgraded to their multibit Gungir DAC, but still use the Jotunheim as my headphone amp. With the three inputs I have it plugged into my computer (through the Gungur), my Vinyl Phono Amp, and a CD player.

If you're not looking to spend that much right now, I can definitely recommend the aforementioned Schiit Stack - the Modi 2 paired with the Magni 3.
 
illram said:
What are you looking for? Do you want virtual surround or just great stereo audio?
Click to expand...

Both

What if I used the gsx1000 to generate the surround and then used a schitt amp to feed a headphone? I would just keep the vol output low on the sennheiser to prevent clipping on the schitt. I cant find any other amps and dacs that can virtualize 7.1.
 
tangoseal said:
Both
Click to expand...

Well you could add an amp to the GSX. Just googling around it seems the GSX cannot feed its surround mix to line-out, you need to "double-amp" it which just means use a headphone out to RCA in to feed another amp. You could get the Magni 3 plus the GSX and then get the HD600 or HD700. Or whatever headphone. AKG 7XX on Massdrop for $199 is a stellar gaming headphone for example. Another option is the HE-400i, currently on sale for I believe around $200, cheapest it has ever been. (Love that headphone). If you like bass also consider the Fostex TH-X00.

Or just get the GSX and something easy to drive like the previously mentioned HD598 or PC37X, also on Massdrop.

Other amp/dacs that do 5.1/7.1 include the Creative SoundBlaster E5 and X7. I own both, both can send their surround mix to line out. (The X7 doesn't need another amp on top.)
 
illram said:
Well you could add an amp to the GSX. Just googling around it seems the GSX cannot feed its surround mix to line-out, you need to "double-amp" it which just means use a headphone out to RCA in to feed another amp. You could get the Magni 3 plus the GSX and then get the HD600 or HD700. Or whatever headphone. AKG 7XX on Massdrop for $199 is a stellar gaming headphone for example. Another option is the HE-400i, currently on sale for I believe around $200, cheapest it has ever been. (Love that headphone). If you like bass also consider the Fostex TH-X00.

Or just get the GSX and something easy to drive like the previously mentioned HD598 or PC37X, also on Massdrop.

Other amp/dacs that do 5.1/7.1 include the Creative SoundBlaster E5 and X7. I own both, both can send their surround mix to line out. (The X7 doesn't need another amp on top.)
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ok ill look at the sblaster as well
 
Good luck. If you're feeling like spending money there is always the Smyth Realiser A16.....:whistle:
 
One thing people have done, and I agree that Creative's surround stuff is probably the best for gaming, is to use a Creative Z and the optical out to a DAC/Amp that accepts optical, which some of the Schiit products do.

I have a Topping DX7 that'll do balanced stuff that has optical input, and I may try that in the future, along with balanced cables for headphones, though for the near future it'll be feeding a pair of JBS LSR 305 speakers :D.
 
So I went to Microcenter and got the GSX just to try it tonight. Its sounds good but directionally I have trained my ears to listen to true 7.1 cheap headsets like the Razer Tiamat and there is no directivity. I do not think there are any quality solutions for actual 7.1 directivity. I can totally tell no matter what headphones I try there is no directivity and its faked.

I will return the GSX tomorrow. I am not pleased with it.

I am afraid that no matter how high of a quality of a headset I try, I have already ruined my self by using acclaimed true 7.1. The quality is shit compared to the GSX and my higher end Sony MDR-v700's I bought almost 20 years ago. But there is ZERO directivitiy to the audio. As in shit that is supposed to be behind me sounds like its still to the side of me or in front of me.

I am just afraid that even the Soundblaster Z or any other solution is going to let me down because of my expectations no matter how unrealistic that is. I know sigh ...
 
Software isn't there I suppose.

There have been times no joke, I have been startled wearing headphones thinking that a sound came from somewhere behind me etc... (Open back hd 800)

It just takes proper mastering which is a rare unicorn.
 
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Weird. Creative's SBX Pro sounds great to me. GSX is supposed to be comparable but everyone's ears are different.

Did you have it set up properly at Microcenter? I wouldn't give up just trying one solution. A good HRTF isn't really "fake" inasmuch as it is sending your ear what it would normally expect from a rear cue. (Or whatever direction.) Just like a speaker behind you.
 
Nah Microcenter just sells junk. There really isnt anything to setup.

I am not giving up. Just I guess I am going to have to SPEND ALOT more money to get what I am wanting.

How does this sound for VSSound? Creative Labs X7 plugged into a set of HD598's or 650's? I am not hell bent on sennheiser but that is all I am aware of right now for the price range.
 
By set up I mean, windows was set to 7.1, game was set to use windows default speaker settings, GSX surround settings were at optimal levels (max?), you were using a decent headphone, etc. etc.

HD598 yes, HD650 no. 650 headstage is really in your head, it does not sound good with surround. I have the 6xx and love them for music, not for surround. 598 on the other hand are great. For surround purposes you are not necessarily looking for the great "audiophile" headphones. You want big soundstage, very good imaging, clarity and separation, and ideally not big, overpowering bass. (But bassey headphones like the X2 or the TH-X00 are actually still pretty good. Something like the V-Moda M100 not so much.)

If you want to spend HD650 money, much better buy for surround gaming purposes is the HE-560. Great imaging, neutral sound, big soundstage. Great headphone. Or just throw caution to the wind and buy the best soundstage/imaging headphone ever made and get the HD800S. :D

Have you tried this video?



There are lots of other test videos. For instance google virtual barber shop. It's a binaural recording, if you can hear the sounds coming from all around your head, that is an example of what a good HRTF can do for you. (They will never be that 3D though, at least for 5.1 or 7.1, thanks to the limits of multi-channel audio.)
 
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illram said:
By set up I mean, windows was set to 7.1, game was set to use windows default speaker settings, GSX surround settings were at optimal levels (max?), you were using a decent headphone, etc. etc.

HD598 yes, HD650 no. 650 headstage is really in your head, it does not sound good with surround. I have the 6xx and love them for music, not for surround. 598 on the other hand are great. For surround purposes you are not necessarily looking for the great "audiophile" headphones. You want big soundstage, very good imaging, clarity and separation, and ideally not big, overpowering bass. (But bassey headphones like the X2 or the TH-X00 are actually still pretty good. Something like the V-Moda M100 not so much.)

If you want to spend HD650 money, much better buy for surround gaming purposes is the HE-560. Great imaging, neutral sound, big soundstage. Great headphone. Or just throw caution to the wind and buy the best soundstage/imaging headphone ever made and get the HD800S. :D

Have you tried this video?



There are lots of other test videos. For instance google virtual barber shop. It's a binaural recording, if you can hear the sounds coming from all around your head, that is an example of what a good HRTF can do for you. (They will never be that 3D though, at least for 5.1 or 7.1, thanks to the limits of multi-channel audio.)
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Thank you for all of that. It seems user error on my side. I forgot to set windows to 7.1 on the sound device for the GSX. Now its 7.1 and sounds infinitely better. I am going to test this out for a few rounds of games. I am just learning about all of this. I am not dead set on the GSX so well see. I am open to all your suggestions.
 
Awesome. Glad you got it working. Yes, Windows needs to be set to 7.1 speakers for it to work in games. Then just leave all games to windows default (don't select headphones or whatever).

Lots of people like the GSX. Seems to be up to each person's preference, there are hundreds of pages of posts over at head-fi.org for example comparing the GSX to SBX and it seems totally subjective. I've never got to try GSX myself, so I can't say which is better. I went with the X7 because I needed something that could decode Dolby Digital (for console surround) and that works pretty well for me. The SoundBlaster E5 is also basically the same as the X7, just minus Dolby Digital, and it does 7.1 (X7 only does 5.1), but its amp is slightly less quality than the X7. It's half the price of the X7 though. It's VSS quality is basically exactly the same as the X7 for PC purposes (arguably better, actually, since it does 7.1 rather than 5.1) so if you are just looking to try SBX, you could try the E5 and return it if you wind up preferring the GSX. (Don't get the SoundBlaster G5, its VSS is different, even though on paper it looks exactly the same. Yes, this is confusing.)

You could try stuff forever though, there is something to be said for sticking with what you like once you find it.

I think your next target should be a good headphone. Have fun with this, virtual surround is a very cool niche of audio in my opinion. When you get it working well it really changes your games for the better.
 
Ok so after much tweaking and playing stuff ... wow this little amp is a whole 'nuther level over the cheapo "True" 7.1
headcraps.

Titanfall 2 was like an entirely different experience. Now I know what you guys and others mean when they say true 7.1 is junk, get some really good VSS and good headphones. I felt like my speakers were on the in the room at times and it really fooled me. I thought that I wasn't even wearing headphones. Although these 20 year old Sony headphones make me feel kind of closed in I was surprised at the virtual sound stage that was being presented.

Now I need to focus on getting a better set of headphones for my PC.

It also makes me want to get a Schitt stack now to use for just pure audiophile stuff in addition to my stuff for the PC. Maybe a Schitt Stack as you guys have recommended and a set of HD700s (what I can afford) and some 598s for my PC.

And remember I am not "Sold" on the GSX. I figured I would never know unless I tried it. I can't just go and buy other amps locally that easy and return them if I am not sure about it like I could this one.

It sounds great ... 20% and the headphones are so loud I can't take any more so for the amplification it is doing it is doing great in these Sonys.
 
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If the Sony's are closed, they're likely closer to ~30Ω. Generally that means 'easier to drive', but it also means, 'be careful with that volume knob', ;)

(I wonder if you could try the Razer software and compare to the GSX1000- it should do something similar)
 
IdiotInCharge said:
If the Sony's are closed, they're likely closer to ~30Ω. Generally that means 'easier to drive', but it also means, 'be careful with that volume knob', ;)

(I wonder if you could try the Razer software and compare to the GSX1000- it should do something similar)
Click to expand...

Do you have a link?
 
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