Samsung HMD Odyssey

Stryker7314 said:
Seeing alot of rift/vive owners grasping for straws right now saying the old headsets are somehow better to make themselves feel better that they had to pay an early adopter tax for inferior hardware. Whatever makes you girls sleep better at night. ; )

More reviews from people that actually have them-

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195736&page=7
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Who is saying that? I see some people that prefer it over any of the new ones so far.
 
Stryker7314 said:
Seeing alot of rift/vive owners grasping for straws right now saying the old headsets are somehow better to make themselves feel better that they had to pay an early adopter tax for inferior hardware. Whatever makes you girls sleep better at night. ; )

More reviews from people that actually have them-

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195736&page=7
Click to expand...

Well, Vega is returning his after trying it out - seems there just wasn't enough there to entice him to replace his Rift. It actually seems that you are the one that is desperately trying to justify your purchase... just not sure why? Posting links to a Russian based sim site?...OK... seems there's a few folks there not overly blown away as well:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3293960#post3293960

Heck the Odyssey works, is a bit better in some areas, worse in others. For seated sims, the resolution increase is probably a big plus for you. Anyway, go use them and stop worrying so much. I'm sitting tight for Gen 2 myself. If I didn't already have two full VR setups, I might have been tempted with the Odyssey, even if it does have a few glaring warts.
 
The Odyssey is a fine headset, but I prefer the slightly better face feel and slightly better tracking of the Rift over the Odyssey and its slightly better apparent resolution. If the Odyssey had RGB pixels, I'd definitely be rocking it. Pentile FTL!

I'm going to try the "Pentile isn't really a real true resolution as it is advertised" line with Microsoft to see if they will take it back.
 
If true, that sucks. Apparently the Vive is also. But there are also different versions of Pentile and all are most likely not equal.

489_9cdf1622caf8656bee9d377123e7817f.jpg


It could also come down to what type of filter/coating is put over the OLED, as between the Odyssey/Rift/Vive, they all have different appearance to their SDE (I've owned all three). The Odyssey may not have any filter at all as I can easily see every individual pixel with very apparent SDE.

And I'm not the only one, from a Redit user who tested the Odyssey:

Granted, I was still able to see individual pixels, and the screen-door-effect (the space between the pixels) was more pronounced than I would have hoped given the resolution, quite possibly due to Samsung’s unique PenTile subpixel arrangement.

I did find it interesting on this page that one guy thought the Rift was better and one thought the Odyssey was better:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195736&page=7

I know it highly unlikely, but not impossible that the Odyssey HMD can have two different OLED panels from different lines/plants.

Whatever the case, I think we can all agree that the Odyssey isn't a massive upgrade to the Rift/Vive. That will come with the Pimax 8K and the Rift/Vive/Odyssey will become moot.
 
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Pimax has a different issue with their advertised resolutions, though: they can't actually receive a full 4K/8K video input because of bandwidth limitations on current HDMI/DisplayPort interfaces. That only gets worse when you push past 60 Hz, and current VR HMDs are 90 Hz or greater for very good reason (just ask anyone with a 120+ Hz monitor).

I'd be more willing to consider their headsets if the TCON board or whatever driving their screens could be upgraded when the video interfaces and GPUs catch up, keeping the existing screens with their good resolution. But most HMDs aren't exactly designed with such modification in mind, given that they could just sell you a whole new model later on.
 
Ya the regular Pimax 8K actually only receives a 2560x1440 signal x2 and then up-scales it. So one DP 1.4 is sufficient. The Pimax 8K X (the one I ordered) is actually native 4K x2 and will required two DP 1.4 cables.
 
The Samsung Odyssey is like VR Generation 1.2 and the upcoming "regular" Pimax 8K planned for next Spring is going to be like VR generation 1.5.

I see the Pimax "8k X" vying to become a true VR Generation 2.0 product, that is to say a true 4K VR solution... but I don't see it arriving anytime soon. Perhaps by 2019 sometime. I do think they'll get the regular Pimax 8K version out by next Summer though as long as everything goes smoothly for them, and that's a pretty big "if". The "8K X" title is pure marketing B.S. though as it's actually two 4K screens, one for the left eye and one for right... there isn't an 8K image being displayed to both eyes, but rather a 4K left/right image. And according to their FAQ the 8k X is: "Only for those who own a PC with at least GTX1080ti (still testing, may need 1080Ti SLI, or the next generation graphic card e.g. Nvidia Volta), CPU i7, and 16GB memory." So they are basically saying that it will most likely require two 1080Ti's or a next gen Volta card or two. (Not that big a market of potential users there yet!) A single DisplayPort 1.4 cable can also only deliver an 8K UHD signal (7680×4320) at 60 Hz max. A single DP cable simply won't cut it for the required 90Hz signal (4K x 2) that is needed for VR. Also, at those bandwidths, the DP cable is pretty much saturated to close to it's full capacity, so cable quality and cable length sensitively issues are going to abound. (3 meters seems to be the DP 1.4 standard's limit as to a full bandwidth signal, whereas HDMI is a bit more generous at 5 meters.)

Pimax is definitely going to have to rely on two DP or HDMI cables for their 8K X product, one powering each screen. While the technical hardware hurdles as to delivering two independent 4K VR signals and displaying them can be overcome, there's the much bigger specter of having to develop some sort of custom VR graphics driver support for this to actually happen using two cards (and that's firmly in the realm of the GPU manufacturer like Nvidia). Also, true 4K per eye VR is going to require some very heavy duty GPU firepower unless foveated rendering and eye tracking can also be leveraged here (which again only serves to further complicate the technical solution.) So even if two 1080Ti's could be pushed to their limits in order to deliver a 90Hz 4K signal each for full-on VR gaming graphics, there's the needed specialized VR graphics driver support that would be required from Nvidia. Unless Pimax is working closely with Nvidia on this (seems unlikely right now given that they are only now just beginning to design their hardware for the 8K X and have no prototype as of yet that's been demonstrated), I fully expect that we won't see the 8K X product arrive until late 2018 or more realistically sometime in 2019. By that time, Oculus, HTC, or possibly even one of Microsoft's "Mixed Reality" partners may have a 4K VR HMD product close to release as well. Bottom line, VR Gen 2.0 (true 4K VR) is most likely not going to appear until close to 2019. It would be really cool if Pimax beat the likes of Oculus or HTC as an underdog, but I'd hazard to guess that Pimax's development budget pales in comparison to what Oculus is working with.

There's an interesting read here as to the latest Pimax prototype ver3:

 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
The Samsung Odyssey is like VR Generation 1.2 and the upcoming "regular" Pimax 8K planned for next Spring is going to be like VR generation 1.5.

I see the Pimax "8k X" vying to become a true VR Generation 2.0 product, that is to say a true 4K VR solution... but I don't see it arriving anytime soon. Perhaps by 2019 sometime. I do think they'll get the regular Pimax 8K version out by next Summer though as long as everything goes smoothly for them, and that's a pretty big "if". The "8K X" title is pure marketing B.S. though as it's actually two 4K screens, one for the left eye and one for right... there isn't an 8K image being displayed to both eyes, but rather a 4K left/right image. And according to their FAQ the 8k X is: "Only for those who own a PC with at least GTX1080ti (still testing, may need 1080Ti SLI, or the next generation graphic card e.g. Nvidia Volta), CPU i7, and 16GB memory." So they are basically saying that it will most likely require two 1080Ti's or a next gen Volta card or two. (Not that big a market of potential users there yet!) A single DisplayPort 1.4 cable can also only deliver an 8K UHD signal (7680×4320) at 60 Hz max. A single DP cable simply won't cut it for the required 90Hz signal (4K x 2) that is needed for VR. Also, at those bandwidths, the DP cable is pretty much saturated to close to it's full capacity, so cable quality and cable length sensitively issues are going to abound. (3 meters seems to be the DP 1.4 standard's limit as to a full bandwidth signal, whereas HDMI is a bit more generous at 5 meters.)

Pimax is definitely going to have to rely on two DP or HDMI cables for their 8K X product, one powering each screen. While the technical hardware hurdles as to delivering two independent 4K VR signals and displaying them can be overcome, there's the much bigger specter of having to develop some sort of custom VR graphics driver support for this to actually happen using two cards (and that's firmly in the realm of the GPU manufacturer like Nvidia). Also, true 4K per eye VR is going to require some very heavy duty GPU firepower unless foveated rendering and eye tracking can also be leveraged here (which again only serves to further complicate the technical solution.) So even if two 1080Ti's could be pushed to their limits in order to deliver a 90Hz 4K signal each for full-on VR gaming graphics, there's the needed specialized VR graphics driver support that would be required from Nvidia. Unless Pimax is working closely with Nvidia on this (seems unlikely right now given that they are only now just beginning to design their hardware for the 8K X and have no prototype as of yet that's been demonstrated), I fully expect that we won't see the 8K X product arrive until late 2018 or more realistically sometime in 2019. By that time, Oculus, HTC, or possibly even one of Microsoft's "Mixed Reality" partners may have a 4K VR HMD product close to release as well. Bottom line, VR Gen 2.0 (true 4K VR) is most likely not going to appear until close to 2019. It would be really cool if Pimax beat the likes of Oculus or HTC as an underdog, but I'd hazard to guess that Pimax's development budget pales in comparison to what Oculus is working with.

There's an interesting read here as to the latest Pimax prototype ver3:

Click to expand...
I don't think the 8k nomer is misleading - it's 8k horizontal pixels. Yeah, it's not 4k high as well, but you don't really want that aspect ratio in VR, you want more width than height (imo). The other sets have close to 1:1 ratio per eye while this has 16:9 per eye to give them much wider fov, which makes more sense as that's actually what you see when looking at a 16:9 tv or projector - each eye sees 16:9.
 
bobzdar said:
I don't think the 8k nomer is misleading - it's 8k horizontal pixels. Yeah, it's not 4k high as well, but you don't really want that aspect ratio in VR, you want more width than height (imo). The other sets have close to 1:1 ratio per eye while this has 16:9 per eye to give them much wider fov, which makes more sense as that's actually what you see when looking at a 16:9 tv or projector - each eye sees 16:9.
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Depends how you look at it I guess. To me at least, saying "8K" implies that it is getting fed a true 8K signal, and that you are viewing that 8K signal with both of your eyes... but in reality this is not the case. The Pimax 8K X is getting sent two separate 4K signals via two separate cables, and they are being displayed separately, one 4K image for each eye. A more honest way of marketed the 8K X would have been "4Kx2 X", but I guess that just wouldn't be as headline grabbing as their marketing dept. would like. :D

Also, our vision is NOT like a TV. VR's ultimate goal is to attempt to mimic our real vision. Our eyes don't see the world at 16:9. We see it at ~210 degrees horizontally and ~150 vertically. So it's more like a 7:5 ratio, not 16:9. What you really want in VR is as much vertical and horizontal FOV as possible that sticks to this 7:5 ratio. If they can dial in a 4K display for each eye that approximates as much of our vision's FOV at a 7:5 ratio, then we'll start having truly great VR. And once tech is able to deliver true 8K per eye @ 90FPS (and we'll get there! It might take another 6-10 years though), then we'll have VR that begins to be become truly indistinguishable from reality. That will be mind boggling to behold.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
Depends how you look at it I guess. To me at least, saying "8K" implies that it is getting fed a true 8K signal, and that you are viewing that 8K signal with both of your eyes... but in reality this is not the case. The Pimax 8K X is getting sent two separate 4K signals via two separate cables, and they are being displayed separately, one 4K image for each eye. A more honest way of marketed the 8K X would have been "4Kx2 X", but I guess that just wouldn't be as headline grabbing as their marketing dept. would like. :D

Also, our vision is NOT like a TV. VR's ultimate goal is to attempt to mimic our real vision. Our eyes don't see the world at 16:9. We see it at ~210 degrees horizontally and ~150 vertically. So it's more like a 7:5 ratio, not 16:9. What you really want in VR is as much vertical and horizontal FOV as possible that sticks to this 7:5 ratio. If they can dial in a 4K display for each eye that approximates as much of our vision's FOV at a 7:5 ratio, then we'll start having truly great VR. And once tech is able to deliver true 8K per eye @ 90FPS (and we'll get there! It might take another 6-10 years though), then we'll have VR that begins to be become truly indistinguishable from reality. That will be mind boggling to behold.
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How are they getting away with a total of 8K res @ 90fps?
 
Hagrid said:
How are they getting away with a total of 8K res @ 90fps?
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If by they you mean Pimax, well, they aren't and they have stated as much. Their site's FAQ implies that it will most likely require Volta/next gen tech or at a minimum 2 1080Ti's, each one rendering 4K @ 90fps. And that's pushing a 1080Ti hard with most of the eye candy/effects dialed way down in a typical game engine.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
If by they you mean Pimax, well, they aren't and they have stated as much. Their site's FAQ implies that it will most likely require Volta/next gen tech or at a minimum 2 1080Ti's, each one rendering 4K @ 90fps. And that's pushing a 1080Ti hard with most of the eye candy/effects dialed way down in a typical game engine.
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Will it run an eye on each card? That would rock.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
Go back up this thread and read post #88.
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So that means the other platforms should be able to do the same.

I also read this on the 8k x =
Based on our tests, no obvious difference in VR gaming experiences between 8K and 8K X.

Does that mean the speed for the resolution difference?
 
I'm not sure if I'm alone here, but I have a hard time following you Hagrid. It's almost as if you are from a different planet at times. :D

"So that means the other platforms should be able to do the same."

What other platforms? Do what the same? Everything I've posted above is pretty much just informed conjecture at this point. There still is no 8k X product or even a prototype of the 8k X yet that's been demonstrated, only the 8K product prototype has been. There are no VR drivers that use two cards (one for each eye) that exist yet or have even been worked on yet that I am aware of.

"I also read this on the 8k x =
Based on our tests, no obvious difference in VR gaming experiences between 8K and 8K X."

Based on who's test? Which gaming experience? In reference/comparison to what?

"Does that mean the speed for the resolution difference?"

Not following you at all on this last statement - unsure what you are even asking.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
I'm not sure if I'm alone here, but I have a hard time following you Hagrid. It's almost as if you are from a different planet at times. :D

"So that means the other platforms should be able to do the same."

What other platforms? Do what the same? Everything I've posted above is pretty much just informed conjecture at this point. There still is no 8k X product or even a prototype of the 8k X yet that's been demonstrated, only the 8K product prototype has been. There are no VR drivers that use two cards (one for each eye) that exist yet or have even been worked on yet that I am aware of.

"I also read this on the 8k x =
Based on our tests, no obvious difference in VR gaming experiences between 8K and 8K X."

Based on who's test? Which gaming experience? In reference/comparison to what?

"Does that mean the speed for the resolution difference?"

Not following you at all on this last statement - unsure what you are even asking.
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The Rift/Vive/Etc should be able to up the resolution and have 1 eye on each card. They could sell different HMD's since some people might not have dual cards or the cash.
If it can be worked out that would be awesome.

That statement was on their own website. Hell if I know what it means exactly.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
Depends how you look at it I guess. To me at least, saying "8K" implies that it is getting fed a true 8K signal, and that you are viewing that 8K signal with both of your eyes... but in reality this is not the case. The Pimax 8K X is getting sent two separate 4K signals via two separate cables, and they are being displayed separately, one 4K image for each eye. A more honest way of marketed the 8K X would have been "4Kx2 X", but I guess that just wouldn't be as headline grabbing as their marketing dept. would like. :D

Also, our vision is NOT like a TV. VR's ultimate goal is to attempt to mimic our real vision. Our eyes don't see the world at 16:9. We see it at ~210 degrees horizontally and ~150 vertically. So it's more like a 7:5 ratio, not 16:9. What you really want in VR is as much vertical and horizontal FOV as possible that sticks to this 7:5 ratio. If they can dial in a 4K display for each eye that approximates as much of our vision's FOV at a 7:5 ratio, then we'll start having truly great VR. And once tech is able to deliver true 8K per eye @ 90FPS (and we'll get there! It might take another 6-10 years though), then we'll have VR that begins to be become truly indistinguishable from reality. That will be mind boggling to behold.
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Yes, but I think we'd agree 16:9 per eye is closer to 7:5 than the ~1:1 seen in all of the other headsets out right now. And given most displays are in 16:9 format, it makes the most sense without having custom displays built. There's a tradeoff at play - use all pixels availabe and do 16:9 per eye with total 205 horizontal fov but slightly less than 150 vertical fov, or waste some pixels horizontally and give us the 210:150. I think, given the focus a lot of people have on sde, that they rightly use all of the pixels and slightly reduce vertical fov using one 4k display per eye. The fact still remains that this is 8k horizontal pixels, so not a misnomer imo, and in the case of the 8k X they're going to be feeding it 8k horizontal pixles (if you have the hp to deliver it). I honestly think that with decent upscaling that feeding it 4k pixels will be fine for most use cases but understand the want for 'true' 8k. We'll get 8k per eye some day but the display tech doesn't exist yet, let alone the rendering power to do it.
 
Hagrid said:
The Rift/Vive/Etc should be able to up the resolution and have 1 eye on each card.
Click to expand...
I think you can do that now... but what difference does it make until you have the higher res screens... which NO DOUBT they will be coming from the big players... they are just being conservative not telling folks what's planned... they have a better idea of what's realistic and probably think Pimax is getting way in over their heads... 4K per eye is simply not ready yet, so why string folks along that 8K is almost here now? There's a good change Pimax will not deliver much of anything that Oculus/HTC doesn't deliver better shortly after

in any case, as things become more popular, screen manufacturer's may also start producing custom resolutions for VR, even circular screens if that helps save costs... we're a long ways from that though which is why we are relying on using cellphone screens...
 
Youn said:
I think you can do that now... but what difference does it make until you have the higher res screens... which NO DOUBT they will be coming from the big players... they are just being conservative not telling folks what's planned... they have a better idea of what's realistic and probably think Pimax is getting way in over their heads... 4K per eye is simply not ready yet, so why string folks along that 8K is almost here now? There's a good change Pimax will not deliver much of anything that Oculus/HTC doesn't deliver better shortly after

in any case, as things become more popular, screen manufacturer's may also start producing custom resolutions for VR, even circular screens if that helps save costs... we're a long ways from that though which is why we are relying on using cellphone screens...
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That is what I mean. I am hoping Rift comes out with a 4K per eye HMD. I would not mind getting the cards for that.
Yeah, the Pimax I am not sure what is going on there.

I do not mind the cord, but would not mind wireless. I would not buy a wireless anything right now since the systems are still low res.
 
Hagrid said:
The Rift/Vive/Etc should be able to up the resolution and have 1 eye on each card. They could sell different HMD's since some people might not have dual cards or the cash.
If it can be worked out that would be awesome.

That statement was on their own website. Hell if I know what it means exactly.
Click to expand...

I definitively see the need for more than one 1080Ti if VR Gen 2 is going to be capable of supporting true 4K resolution per eye. Maybe Volta will help in this dept. With the Pimax 8K, there's lots of talk of up-scaling the signal - so the input signal is actually at a lower resolution then what the display hardware is capable of showing. (Somewhat akin to what 4K TV's can do with a 1080P input signals these days - it looks good, but there's only so much upscaling can do.) The Pimax 8K X is supposedly the "non-upscaling" version that will display the full incoming 4Kx2 signal natively to the panel without any upscaling... or so they are promising.
 
I have had nothing but trouble with my Odyssey.

I had it working for a bit and then it just stopped displaying. The screen always stayed black, even tried it with another PC. Returned to MS and got sent another one. found out that somehow my HDMI port was now dead (maybe the previous Odyssey killed it, I don't know, but the hdmi port wont even work with my monitor and I only have one. My Vive works fine with DP, so I get a DP adapter for the Odyssey and it locks up the PC. Find out that I need an 'active' display adapter to get HDMI 2.0 res. OK do that, now when I run setup 9/10 times it will say connected, but will not discover what firmware version is installed and will fail later on during the setup. Got it fully setup one time, but it would not display the controllers. I could see the "Waves" when I put the controllers on the borders, but it never shows the controllers or lets me use the buttons.... Ok fresh batteries for the controllers, and a powered USB 3.0 hub in case my usb ports are not providing enough juice (grasping at straws) no dice.....
 
I'm kind of surprised at the response to the Samsung headset as I've found it to be amazing. I love my new Samsung HMD Odyssey too! The screens are sooooo good. Nice and sharp with great color. Text is readable even at distance! Totally comfortable to wear with barely any wires.

And it's super easy to install and portable. The retail box is totally designed as a transport box. I pair it with my Surface Pro 2017 and go wherever I want to go and my friends can just jump in an play. Who would've thought a laptop would make a great VR system? I did have to upgrade my mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter (you choose one that is HDMI 2.0 rated or rated for 4K displays) to get it to work with the Surface Pro 2017. With my older one, the Surface screen keep blanking and the headset displays never turned on.

And then I get home and pair it with a powerful desktop and the experience jumps up a step due to the performance increase.

I've tried Oculus at a friend's house and Vive at the Microsoft Store. I have zero idea how someone can view both the Rift screen and the Samsung screen and think they're roughly equivalent. That's just unbelievable. Vive was okay. Neither the Vive or the Rift were as comfortable to wear and had that strap that goes over the top of your head. The wires were insane. Everyone kept tripping over everything. They ended up dedicated a person to hold the wires back as if it was some bridal attendant carrying the veil.
 
onlysublime said:
I'm kind of surprised at the response to the Samsung headset as I've found it to be amazing. I love my new Samsung HMD Odyssey too! The screens are sooooo good. Nice and sharp with great color. Text is readable even at distance! Totally comfortable to wear with barely any wires.

And it's super easy to install and portable. The retail box is totally designed as a transport box. I pair it with my Surface Pro 2017 and go wherever I want to go and my friends can just jump in an play. Who would've thought a laptop would make a great VR system? I did have to upgrade my mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter (you choose one that is HDMI 2.0 rated or rated for 4K displays) to get it to work with the Surface Pro 2017. With my older one, the Surface screen keep blanking and the headset displays never turned on.

And then I get home and pair it with a powerful desktop and the experience jumps up a step due to the performance increase.

I've tried Oculus at a friend's house and Vive at the Microsoft Store. I have zero idea how someone can view both the Rift screen and the Samsung screen and think they're roughly equivalent. That's just unbelievable. Vive was okay. Neither the Vive or the Rift were as comfortable to wear and had that strap that goes over the top of your head. The wires were insane. Everyone kept tripping over everything. They ended up dedicated a person to hold the wires back as if it was some bridal attendant carrying the veil.
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Welcome to [H] where even loyal employees of large corporations are welcome to tout the benefits of their company's offerings.;)
 
Well I was hoping some good reviews would shed light on the new Windows VR headsets but so far none I've seen seem to really get into it with numerous play time and different games. In other words the reviews so far are weak or tending on the unprofessional side.
 
So can it do accurate roomscale? I am a bit iffy on the inside-out tracking.
 
MavericK said:
So can it do accurate roomscale? I am a bit iffy on the inside-out tracking.
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To me it sounds like the technology just isn't there...close, just not yet ready. You have to have furniture or "objects" that can be measured with the cameras placed in certain orients so the cameras can best calculate them. They also from what I have heard, do not like other moving bodies in the same area, as it has trouble differentiating that for solid objects. Tracking of the remotes also appears to be an issue, but through time this can be fixed. I think in another generation or two when combined with eye pupil focus rendering, then we will see a true experience. I am excited to be in the middle of it all through this technology. We can't forget that it is up to the software developers to take the experience the rest of the way with the current technology we got. If we are not sucked into it, then we will only nitpick the negatives.
 
Hey guys thanks for all the in depth reviews. I decided to check out the Odyssey for myself. I have owned the PSVR, Pimax 4k and Deepoon E3(DPVR E3), also have demoed the rift. All have thier strong points as everyone knows but my beef with the Odyssey is that I think Im not running at 90hz, MY psvr is better at rendering smooth motion, the Odyssey is a little less smooth when people are in motion, than the PSVR (the psvr is 120hz, which makes the vids come alive with smoother motion but the resolution is of course lacking). Ive tried 4 different vr players with the same results so I dont think its the player. Any way to tell or make that adjustment from 60 to 90 or is there a way to tell?
 
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