Small business, new building, new network setup. Need recommendations.

DRJ1014

Supreme [H]ardness
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Nov 11, 2003
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Hey [H]. So I will be the first to say I know shit when it comes to networking. I know the basic jist of everything and can google search problems when they happen but when it comes down to getting everything setup and what to use.... Whooosh!


For my company, I am the Office Manager and help desk per say. My office location is only 10 people. We are currently breaking ground on a new building and we are starting fresh with everything.

Our office layout we are going to have about 40 data/voip drop points around the building. We have a company that is coming out to run the lines and get our voip setup but they do not handle routers, switches, etc.

We connect through a VPN to our corporate office but other than that we are pretty much a stand alone office. Our only connection to our corporate office is for AS400. I believe we also have a static IP..... again WHOOOSH. Other than that we host our own files, which isnt much, maybe 20gb/year.

I am in the auto industry so 99% of our stuff is still printed.


Currently the setup I am looking at is

7-10 windows users
1 windows basic central file server/door card access server

The majority of our business is done through phone calls and email. The file server will retain documents from vendors such as quotes, formal business letters, etc. My office does not retain any financial information, all of the important documents are stored at our corporate office.

Now to my questions. I do not know where to start when it comes to switches/hubs/routers. The company coming in to drop the lines I have asked what they would recommend but wanted to get your input.

We will be running 300/x20 co-ax internet which is overkill for what we do but its only $180/month.
Our VOIP will be on its own internet connection, one we are still working out.

Also, we would like to add 1-2 wireless access points. Our lot size is about 10,000sqft, 2200 of it being office and the rest warehouse. Any recommendations?


As far as pricing, we are not looking for a $10,000 switch/hub/router. We want something reliable and easy to use but dont want it to fail or have problems in a year.

TLDR;
1) What router/switch/hub would you recommend for a small business with 40 data drop points
2) What wireless access points would you recommend
 
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On a budget, I would say you might want to look into some used equipment. Sounds like you may need a router and switch. It's been a while since I've had to set something like this up, but you should find out from your ISP what type of handoff they are giving you. Seems to imply co-ax, but are they providing the router with an Ethernet handoff or are they doing an actual co-ax handoff. I'm usually a Cisco type of guy, so co-ax may be bad to stick with Cisco since they kind of stopped supporting coax back in docsis 2 days. But if you wanted, you could still pick up a used 3945 or something and get the appropriate HWIC for the coax/ethernet drop and VIC for the VOIP drop. Probably cost around $3-4k used. I believe a 3945 is rated for about 350mb/s throughput, but the HWIC definitely is not, but if they handoff is Ethernet, may not be an issue.


For the switch, assuming you want POE to power the VOIP phones, you could go with a Cisco 3650. A WS-C3650-48PQ used you can probably get for under $4000. This will give you 48 ports along with a few 10G ports for if you wanted something like a centralized filer onsite.

The VOIP internet connection I am assuming is an actual business class T1 line? Again, depends on your contract and VOIP solution. You may or may not need a router depending if it is a managed solution or if your VOIP solution can directly take the T1.

So at a minimum, you would need a switch. If you don't need POE or 10G, you can drop down the switch to something cheaper.. like a WS-C3650-48TS which you can buy used for under $2k.

If the solution does not involve a router, you will need to at a minimum set up an outside routing table on your switch so as to separate your inside and outside traffic. This will require an IP Services license for VRF on the catalyst, so make sure if you buy used, it has that :) Otherwise, you can add later, but I'm sure it will cost more, plus not sure you are interested in enrolling the equipment into smartNet with such a tight budget.

On the flip side, assuming the ISP has it's on router and the VOIP side isn't needed, you could just go super small office budget route and pick up something like a D-Link or Netgear managed POE switch.. probably brand new, it will cost you around $500. Being that you guys don't seem to have a network guy, this may be the way to go.
 
Thanks for the input Kelter.

Our current setup is being run off a Netgear switch, 3 hubs placed around the office, and an apple airport extreme for our wireless needs.

Our internet runs but I know it could run smoother and I know it has something to do with our setup which is why for our new location I wanted to do something more stable but doesn't break the bank.

Just out of googling, I came across Open-Mesh S48 and their A60 access points. Any thoughts/feedback?
https://store.openmesh.com/products/switches/s48-48-port-poe-cloud-managed-switch.html
https://store.openmesh.com/products/access-points/a60-grouped-cloud-managed-access-point.html
 
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Sorry, I haven't used OpenMesh before.. mostly Cisco, Juniper, PAN, F5, etc. The advantage of things like Cisco is that they give you more flexibility in terms of troubleshooting issues or tracing traffic, but maybe Open-Mesh does this better as things like Cisco are kind of becoming archaic at what they do.. like if you take an ASA and compare it to a PAN, just worlds apart in terms of security and ease of use.. although ASA is still a rock solid FW.. just dated.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier that you might want to take a look at is Ubiquiti.
https://www.ubnt.com/products/#default

I've been tempted to buy a lot of this stuff for my home since it's super cheap and reviews have been pretty decent as far as I can tell. They have basic routers (nothing to terminate coax into through), switches, and wireless APs. Think a few folks on these forums have gone with Ubiquiti Edgerouters and the AP AC HD for their home setups and have liked them.. items are marketed towards 'enterprise' but are priced at the prosumer level.
 
If you are looking for simplicity and cost effective solution while still having business grade equipment that has support:

Meraki

Straight up - you are probably looking at a couple thousand... but I either missed your budget details, or it wasn't included in the OP.

Disclaimer: I do NOT work for Meraki. I just think their products do an excellent job at what they do for their target markets.

Get an MX64W w/ an MS120-48LP.

The MX64W is a security gateway appliance with wireless built-in, and that switch is a 48 port w/ POE. If you need more wireless coverage, you can add an MR33 access point.

If initial capital budget is limited, opt for the 1 year licenses, but if you can get the 3 years, go that route.

Good news is that if you don't need the firewall, you can do great with just the switch and get two of the MR33 access points. Yea, it's more expensive than Ubiquiti, but it will run laps around it as far as operations management goes and technical support when you need it.

Datasheets -

Meraki Cloud Management: https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/me...lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_cloud_management.pdf
MR33 - https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_MR33.pdf
MX Family - https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_mx.pdf
MS120 Switches: https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_ms120.pdf

Meraki will even let you get free gear:

Switch for you to test by attending a webinar: https://meraki.cisco.com/tc/freeswitch
Access point: https://meraki.cisco.com/tc/freeap
MX Appliance: https://meraki.cisco.com/tc/freemx
 
Just saw the square footage - is that warehouse climate controlled or is it exposed to heat/cold/humidity?
 
I would honestly find a local company to setup and support your main connection gear. this is the best for everyone, they can setup the equipment for you, and im sure you can call them and they will solve bigger issues for you. Just remember, downtime is lost money and in our industry, a lot of money can be lost in a day or two
 
I would honestly find a local company to setup and support your main connection gear. this is the best for everyone, they can setup the equipment for you, and im sure you can call them and they will solve bigger issues for you. Just remember, downtime is lost money and in our industry, a lot of money can be lost in a day or two

Agreed with this. If networking is over your head, you don't want to be the one trying to figure out QOS or VLANs across random switches. Even if you splurge on Cisco, it will be so complicated if you don't know what you are doing with networking.

If you absolutely have to do this yourself, I would probably try UBNT equipment on a flat network. For 10 users, you should be ok just having a flat /24 network including wireless clients. If it doesn't work, at least you only spent $800 on a 48Port POE switch and $100 per AP.
 
No matter what you do (I also recommend hiring some help), take this into consideration:

Voice should be on its own VLAN - this will save you in the long run
Private corporate assets also on their own VLAN - your corporate wireless can also be on this VLAN if they are trusted devices only connected
Guest or open wireless should be on their own VLAN, or a completely separate L3 interface on your edge firewall/appliance - I also recommend getting a separate, inexpensive internet for this, like a cheap cable or DSL connection. You don't want guest/contractor users congesting and consuming your company internet.

The better you design and implement this now, the easier your life is going to be. Since your the office manager, you don't want to be the "point man" for any network issues that come up going forward. I'm sure you have a full plate enough as it is without the network issues bothering you. If you hodgepodge this together, you're going to be inundated with network tasks and break-fix stuff... basically guaranteed.
 
Straight up - you are probably looking at a couple thousand... but I either missed your budget details, or it wasn't included in the OP.

We dont really have a budget set in stone but for getting getting the router/switch with access points I would say $3500 total.

Just saw the square footage - is that warehouse climate controlled or is it exposed to heat/cold/humidity?

Our warehouse is not climate controlled but the only thing we are storing in the warehouse is vehicles. We are located in Southern California. We would only have an access point in the warehouse just for the added reach if we needed to take a tablet or laptop into the warehouse.

My industry is leasing. Our customer foot traffic is less than 5 persons per year. 99% of everything we do is phone/email/FedEx. We do not have mechanics, our service team is more of vehicle porters. Picking up and delivering vehicles, washing vehicles, etc.
All of our vehicle contracts are signed at the customers location when we deliver the vehicles or they are sent FedEx if they are out of state.


The most the network will ever see connected is the following

Up to 10 office desktop computers (LAN)
1 file server (LAN)
10-12 business cell phones
2-3 executive laptops (Wireless)

I would honestly find a local company to setup and support your main connection gear. this is the best for everyone, they can setup the equipment for you, and im sure you can call them and they will solve bigger issues for you. Just remember, downtime is lost money and in our industry, a lot of money can be lost in a day or two

No matter what you do (I also recommend hiring some help), take this into consideration:

Voice should be on its own VLAN - this will save you in the long run
Private corporate assets also on their own VLAN - your corporate wireless can also be on this VLAN if they are trusted devices only connected
Guest or open wireless should be on their own VLAN, or a completely separate L3 interface on your edge firewall/appliance - I also recommend getting a separate, inexpensive internet for this, like a cheap cable or DSL connection. You don't want guest/contractor users congesting and consuming your company internet.

The better you design and implement this now, the easier your life is going to be. Since your the office manager, you don't want to be the "point man" for any network issues that come up going forward. I'm sure you have a full plate enough as it is without the network issues bothering you. If you hodgepodge this together, you're going to be inundated with network tasks and break-fix stuff... basically guaranteed.

The more I look into everything and the more everyone responds, it probably is wise for me to just bring in another company to get this stuff setup for me and show me the basics of how everything is run and keep them on retainer if we have a problem.
 
Ok, that all looks like great details. I would recommend getting an outdoor AP for the warehouse. It doesn't really matter what the warehouse is being used for, but if it's not climate controlled, it's exposed to environmental elements that indoor APs are not rated for. Check out the MR74.

I agree - I would honestly suggest seeking out a reseller that can also install the gear for you. I would definitely consider Meraki in your scenario. If the reseller can help you get set up with all of the gear, the Meraki knowledge base is excellent, and your support contract can help you run the operational stuff (config changes, issues, etc.) - let the vendor support be your help desk for network issues once it's setup. A $3500 budget just for the equipment should be more than enough. With your requirements, it sounds like you could get away with a 24 port switch as an option. Installation services might end up being pretty close to the same cost of the gear, but depends if you pay to have someone on site or not.
 
If what you have is already working, I would simply move it to the new location and see what happens. It should work, and then you can go from there.

Right off the bat you may have to replace the netgear switch if it doesn't have enough ports (or just get a second one to gain more ports), and that you may not need the hubs (probably switches as no one really uses hubs anymore) as you'll have direct drops everywhere you need a wire. You can also re-purpose the 'hubs' as additional ports for the netgear in the same manner as connecting a second switch to the netgear.

On the wifi side, I'd put the apple airport where you think it would serve you best and then then see where you'll need to add additional access points. Depending on the ceiling height and length/width of the warehouse building, you might be able to get away with a single AP mounted in the ceiling (if it is high). Otherwise, you will definitely need multiple access points, and roaming between them might become an issue unless its done right.

So far, the suggestions I've made are basically at little or no cost, so I'd start there unless you see any of these ideas potentially losing you big money. If so, then scratch what I said and farm it out to a professional and let them handle it.
 
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