Intel's 8th Generation Core Family - Coffee Lake (LGA 1151, 6C/12T)

Where do you expect Core i7-8700K's Turbo to land?

  • 3.8/3.9 GHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4.0/4.1 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.2/4.3 GHz

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • 4.4/4.5 GHz

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • 4.6/4.7 GHz

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
That Z390 is around the corner is the sorta news you hate seeing when you got your Z370 motherboard and ram sitting ready but still waiting for CPU to be shipped with "unknown date".

If only they at least allowed the 8 core CPU upgrade this time, well competition has gotten harder so there's some slim chances due that but it's Intel so I won't hold my breath.

If you look at it this way though, bad launch availability for Coffee Lake and Z390 possibly launching fairly soon after Z370, AMD's success on gaining grounds again with Ryzer and Threadripper and still longass backwards compatibility and Intel's not overly huge chipset changes makes you wonder how hard of a slap does Intel have to recieve to really wake up to listen to customer feedback. Money still talks (cough motherboard manufacturers holding Intel's hand) too tightly I suppose. I just hope Intel doesn't pull a Nokia on this one and wakes up sooner than later.
 
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That Z390 is around the corner is the sorta news you hate seeing when you got your Z370 motherboard and ram sitting ready but still waiting for CPU to be shipped with "unknown date".

If only they at least allowed the 8 core CPU upgrade this time, well competition has gotten harder so there's some slim chances due that but it's Intel so I won't hold my breath.

If you look at it this way though, bad launch availability for Coffee Lake and Z390 possibly launching fairly soon after Z370, AMD's success on gaining grounds again with Ryzer and Threadripper and still longass backwards compatibility and Intel's not overly huge chipset changes makes you wonder how hard of a slap does Intel have to recieve to really wake up to listen to customer feedback. Money still talks (cough motherboard manufacturers holding Intel's hand) too tightly I suppose. I just hope Intel doesn't pull a Nokia on this one and wakes up sooner than later.

What AMD's success? Hype in media and forums doesn't count. What matters is real sales.


And Q3 numbers for Intel show that the overall impact of RyZen, ThreadRipper, and EPYC is nearly zero on Intel sales.

Listen to customer feedback? As AMD listened to all users with broken RyZen CPUs? As listened to all those AM3+ socket users that purchased Bulldozer/Piledriver and believed they could upgrade up to Excavator?
 
What AMD's success? Hype in media and forums doesn't count. What matters is real sales.


And Q3 numbers for Intel show that the overall impact of RyZen, ThreadRipper, and EPYC is nearly zero on Intel sales.

Listen to customer feedback? As AMD listened to all users with broken RyZen CPUs? As listened to all those AM3+ socket users that purchased Bulldozer/Piledriver and believed they could upgrade up to Excavator?
Of course you are going to say this. It's what we expect. You have 0 credibility from being an Intel fanboy.
 
What is the main feature folks are wanting in the Z390?

People assuming Intel won't allow a Coffee Lake 8 core CPU to work on Z370, but only on Z390.

It's pretty poor that people have boards in hand and can't get a new CPU, meanwhile the new board chipset is on the horizon. I didn't care when it was at least the second half of 2018. I'm starting to think Intel is as evil as Oracle.
 
It is pretty fucking annoying though. I went ahead and pullled the trigger on Z370 because 390 was too far off for my needs. When they launch it much earlier than expected I've now made a mistake because they can't get their shit together. But as has been mentioned, if I can drop in an 8 core then it mitigated. I won't hold my breath.

The whole Z270 / Z370 / Z390 thing is pretty irritating and definitely motivates me to go AMD next time.

I do agree with you, but.... Myself I upgrade every 5 years or so. My [email protected] is still up and kicking and my son will use it for another few years. So I don't care if we'll see 8 core in 4 months because I wouldn't be upgrading anyways. By the time I will need do my next build, there will be new spec/tech so I will need to upgrade and buy new mobo/ram again. The only upgrade I can see doing is to upgrade my gpu (currently GTX1070) to something better in 2-3 years.

I needed something faster than 3570k with more cores /threads, thus I ordered 8700k yesterday (knowing about potential 8 core and new chipset coming out in few months).
 
I pulled the trigger and I've ordered:

- 8700k
- gigabyte gaming 7
- gskill ripjaws V ddr4 16gb 3200 14CL
- Seasonic 850w Focus Gold PSU
- Samsung 960 Evo 250gb NVMe
- noctua d15

This will go into my old trusty HAF 922. No more excuses for GTX1070 ;-) This should be good upgrade from [email protected]

I will report back once the system is up and running in a week or two. ;)




Based on what I've read I would go with Gaming 7 (best VRM out of the 3). For Asrock K6 or Taichi there is fets lottery and you might get either fairchild & sinopower. (You want fairchild).
I was deciding between Asus Hero X and Gaming 7, both with great VRM sets for overclocking. I went with Gaming due to the cheaper price.

Thanks. Ordered a Gigabyte Gaming 7. Bring on the bling bling
 
Thanks. Ordered a Gigabyte Gaming 7. Bring on the bling bling

Great to see another ivy bridge guy upgrading to coffeelake :) Actually I got my hands on new mobo and nvme drive this afternoon (picked it up from local shop).
NE sent me PSU and CPU in 2 different shipments ... I'm still waiting for ram and HSF to be shipped ..
 
What is the main feature folks are wanting in the Z390?
Evidently compatibility with new processors. Seeing as z370 didn't bring anything new to the table (unless you believe the Intel apoligists...which I dont.).
 
Either demand is tapering off or supply is becoming less of an issue, either way, seems like Newegg is getting them on a regular basis.
 
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Either demand is tapering off or supply is becoming less of an issue, either way, seems like Newegg is getting them on a regular basis.
The hype is gone, wait a yr and people will be bitching that they waited and waited and now 8 core is mainstream blah blah
 
Ignoring data given and replying it with personal remarks is what we expect...

when is 8 core coming out from intel. the wait better be worth it, instantly going 4 core to 8 core is 200% core boost. even from a 1680v2 8 cores at 4.2ghz theres still overclock and IPC gain, which is around 30-35% gain easily.
 
Apparently Ryzen is doing really well on MindFactory.de and they show actual #'s.

You can ask Mindfactory how its going today. Close to 0 sales after the PR slides. Manipulation is easy if you can choose the interval. But in the end, the finance statements from both manufactors says it all. All the forum hype and BS never came into reality.

And Mindfactory is one of the closest retail partners AMD got.

Another almost hilarious one is the EPYC shipments that was on these forums crowned to hurt Intel badly. Yet all the shipments are counted in a couple of 100 while SKL-SP shipments have passed a million now. Even the unofficial released Cascade Lake have shipped around 50K now for top tiers.
 
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when is 8 core coming out from intel. the wait better be worth it, instantly going 4 core to 8 core is 200% core boost. even from a 1680v2 8 cores at 4.2ghz theres still overclock and IPC gain, which is around 30-35% gain easily.

I won't argue that Intel couldn't have brought out an eight-core CPU on Z370 (and they still might)- it was a power baseline upgrade over Z170 and Z270, so they could have accounted for that too- but I also understand that maintaining single-core performance would probably also be an issue, and that's one area where AMD is still quite behind, and an area that still matters for quite a few workloads that are difficult to parallelize.

Of course, they could have just released a slower eight-core alongside the 8700k, but then they already had that on their HEDT line, so...


[remember that more than half of what we see finally make it to market isn't due to technical limitations, but due to marketing and volume limitations- it doesn't make sense to stand up, for example, a production line for an eight-core consumer CPU that will be so limited in terms of market penetration that it'd have to be priced into the stratosphere- Intel isn't as nearly as desperate as AMD for marketshare, after all ;) ]
 
I won't argue that Intel couldn't have brought out an eight-core CPU on Z370 (and they still might)- it was a power baseline upgrade over Z170 and Z270, so they could have accounted for that too- but I also understand that maintaining single-core performance would probably also be an issue, and that's one area where AMD is still quite behind, and an area that still matters for quite a few workloads that are difficult to parallelize.

Of course, they could have just released a slower eight-core alongside the 8700k, but then they already had that on their HEDT line, so...


[remember that more than half of what we see finally make it to market isn't due to technical limitations, but due to marketing and volume limitations- it doesn't make sense to stand up, for example, a production line for an eight-core consumer CPU that will be so limited in terms of market penetration that it'd have to be priced into the stratosphere- Intel isn't as nearly as desperate as AMD for marketshare, after all ;) ]

Repeat the mantra in your head. If it isn't going in laptops, it's not coming in the "mainstream line" Core CPUs.

Desktop 8700k sales are a drop in the bucket, they made the chip for those sweet sweet 6 core 12 thread laptop sales.

Also, don't believe any roadmap that AMD shills tell you about Intel chips (for obvious reasons)

They've (AMD shills) been wrong about literally everything that has to do with Intel since AMD shills started on forums in the 90's.

If you want to believe in their make-believe world that they paint, don't get mad at the people who told you the truth all along when the AMD shill's lies about intel releases become obvious to even you.
 
Apparently Ryzen is doing really well on MindFactory.de and they show actual #'s.

Yes, RyZen is doing it very well in a pair of local stores. But I was considering worldwide sales.

Even with supply and overpricing problems, Coffee Lake is taking top sales positions.
 
when is 8 core coming out from intel. the wait better be worth it, instantly going 4 core to 8 core is 200% core boost. even from a 1680v2 8 cores at 4.2ghz theres still overclock and IPC gain, which is around 30-35% gain easily.

Unless otherwise demonstrated, I continue awaiting 8-core Ice Lake for next year.

I guess the rumored 8-core Coffee Lake is a B-plan in case 10nm is not ready next year.
 
Repeat the mantra in your head. If it isn't going in laptops, it's not coming in the "mainstream line" Core CPUs.

Desktop 8700k sales are a drop in the bucket, they made the chip for those sweet sweet 6 core 12 thread laptop sales.

Also, don't believe any roadmap that AMD shills tell you about Intel chips (for obvious reasons)

They've (AMD shills) been wrong about literally everything that has to do with Intel since AMD shills started on forums in the 90's.

If you want to believe in their make-believe world that they paint, don't get mad at the people who told you the truth all along when the AMD shill's lies about intel releases become obvious to even you.

I don't know if you're directing that at me as you've called me an AMD shill before (even though I have an Intel system), but you're conveniently ignoring how the Intel shills claimed CFL support on older chipsets until the time when it became apparent that it wasn't going to be supported. Then magically, it became a "feature" because of extra power delivery pins needed for the same 65/95W parts and DDR4-2666 support! So evidently even the Intel shills are at best wrong and at worst lying about Intel releases. So it makes sense to be skeptical of Intel's 8 core plans in light of a true next gen chipset instead of the rehashed nonsense we just got.
 
The pin change is so bad, now we only have 5Ghz more or less guarantee with 6 cores and memory speeds reaching new records *rage* ;)
 
I don't know if you're directing that at me as you've called me an AMD shill before (even though I have an Intel system), but you're conveniently ignoring how the Intel shills claimed CFL support on older chipsets until the time when it became apparent that it wasn't going to be supported. Then magically, it became a "feature" because of extra power delivery pins needed for the same 65/95W parts and DDR4-2666 support! So evidently even the Intel shills are at best wrong and at worst lying about Intel releases. So it makes sense to be skeptical of Intel's 8 core plans in light of a true next gen chipset instead of the rehashed nonsense we just got.

Have fun trying to have it both ways, claiming it's "the same" and then claiming it's "different" despite the fact that the only ones making definitive claims were the AMD shills and the only ones who were sure of themselves were the AMD shills.

You don't get to rewrite history, the best you can do is get my posts deleted.

You lose.
 
Have fun trying to have it both ways, claiming it's "the same" and then claiming it's "different" despite the fact that the only ones making definitive claims were the AMD shills and the only ones who were sure of themselves were the AMD shills.

You don't get to rewrite history, the best you can do is get my posts deleted.

You lose.

Wow...that's pretty petty, and a good reminder why you're on my ignore list unless I hit "show ignored content."

You have absolutely nothing backing up your claims. I don't even know what you're referencing at this point. You're arguing against this mythical "AMD Shill" straw man that no one has any idea who you're talking about. At least when we reference the Intel apologists we know exactly who they are.
 
The pin change is so bad, now we only have 5Ghz more or less guarantee with 6 cores and memory speeds reaching new records *rage* ;)

Extra power pins or 14++ process? Even a delidded 14+ 7700k will hit 5Ghz.
 
Wow...that's pretty petty, and a good reminder why you're on my ignore list unless I hit "show ignored content."

You have absolutely nothing backing up your claims. I don't even know what you're referencing at this point. You're arguing against this mythical "AMD Shill" straw man that no one has any idea who you're talking about. At least when we reference the Intel apologists we know exactly who they are.

Enjoy your 10 cents per post :D

I'm not re-posting an essay every time the thread goes to a new page (You will simply get your shill buddies to mass spam report it to get it deleted anyways).

I just have to wait a few years when the budget to fund you people is gone (due to bankrupt AMD cost cutting), and then I can get the last laugh at the people who lost their money to the pump and dump hustle reading all these "sources of information", aka shills posting to forums for no other purpose than to swing stock prices. :D
 
Extra power pins or 14++ process? Even a delidded 14+ 7700k will hit 5Ghz.

So it may not be entirely ridiculous then to follow that the same architecture at the same clock rates but with 50% more cores may actually require changes to support power differences?

Or is it your assertion the 14++ has such a significant advantage over 14+ that the power for the extra cores fits within the efficiency gains?
 
So it may not be entirely ridiculous then to follow that the same architecture at the same clock rates but with 50% more cores may actually require changes to support power differences?

Or is it your assertion the 14++ has such a significant advantage over 14+ that the power for the extra cores fits within the efficiency gains?

14++ has a slight advantage. It's been pretty linear since SKL. Delidded SKL (14) hits 4.6-4.8Ghz. Delidded KBL (14+) hits 4.8-5.0 average and Delidded CFL (14++) hits 4.9-5.1 average. The same architecture, the same TDP, the same 14nm process...no reason why this couldn't be in the same motherboard if they chose. Even Asus engineers said the same thing in an article linked pages ago.
 
Enjoy your 10 cents per post :D

I'm not re-posting an essay every time the thread goes to a new page (You will simply get your shill buddies to mass spam report it to get it deleted anyways).

I just have to wait a few years when the budget to fund you people is gone (due to bankrupt AMD cost cutting), and then I can get the last laugh at the people who lost their money to the pump and dump hustle reading all these "sources of information", aka shills posting to forums for no other purpose than to swing stock prices. :D

You're not even making any sense. You're accusing me of being a paid AMD shill, pumping and dumping stocks with absolutely nothing to back that up. I'm on an Intel system for the 10th time. You're not going to find anything in the 21,XXX posts I've had here that makes me sound like an AMD shill, meanwhile all 137 of yours are bashing AMD's CPU or graphics divisions.

I'm pissed off that Intel is playing socket games with their new CPU's. It sounds like that trend is going to continue with 10nm and 8C processors. I don't know why more people aren't upset. I understand the argument that usually you replace the board and CPU at the same time. I get it. But I like the option of dropping in a different CPU personally.
 
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I'm pissed off that Intel is playing socket games with their new CPU's. It sounds like that trend is going to continue with 10nm and 8C processors. I don't know why more people aren't upset. I understand the argument that usually you replace the board and CPU at the same time. I get it. But I like the option of dropping in a different CPU personally.

I think enthusiast upgraders are upset, but enthusiast upgraders are just a very small part of the market. So Intel weighs pressure from OEMs who buy millions of processors each versus our desires as plebs who buy a small fraction of that.

OEMs probably are asking for a new thing to sell every year. Back when I worked inside the CPU, the opposite pressure was there. The OEMs put more money into motherboard designs, and didn't want to change them at all, and boy would we catch hell when we came up with a new socket.
Now they are designing stuff which has such razor thin margins, they can barely support POST at even stock settings for the existing chip. Something which may have higher peak current draw? Fogeddaboutit. Need a respin. And marketing message of "all new chipset!" which sounds way better than "somewhat more acceptable power delivery!" ;)
 
I think enthusiast upgraders are upset, but enthusiast upgraders are just a very small part of the market. So Intel weighs pressure from OEMs who buy millions of processors each versus our desires as plebs who buy a small fraction of that.

OEMs probably are asking for a new thing to sell every year. Back when I worked inside the CPU, the opposite pressure was there. The OEMs put more money into motherboard designs, and didn't want to change them at all, and boy would we catch hell when we came up with a new socket.
Now they are designing stuff which has such razor thin margins, they can barely support POST at even stock settings for the existing chip. Something which may have higher peak current draw? Fogeddaboutit. Need a respin. And marketing message of "all new chipset!" which sounds way better than "somewhat more acceptable power delivery!" ;)
I think it will be good for people who want to wait and get the newer chipset. Intel usually doesn't like to stay on a chipset for very long. AMD has done better at this, but like it has been said before, if it goes on too long, there are more issues than it's worth.
I look forward to next year and see what each has to bring to the table. I do not really need 8 core more cores unless doing DC projects. So I could delegate my 5960x to those duties and get a new system.
90%+ I am on VR so the cpu does not need to be super strong. My 5960x now barely heats up.
 
14++ has a slight advantage. It's been pretty linear since SKL. Delidded SKL (14) hits 4.6-4.8Ghz. Delidded KBL (14+) hits 4.8-5.0 average and Delidded CFL (14++) hits 4.9-5.1 average. The same architecture, the same TDP, the same 14nm process...no reason why this couldn't be in the same motherboard if they chose. Even Asus engineers said the same thing in an article linked pages ago.

I'll give you one example out of several where power delivery is important for Coffee Lake. Take a look at 8700K overclocking with the ASUS Z370i, which appears to be limited to less than 5GHz in AVX workloads. This is significant as it has the same power delivery as the Z270i motherboard, which is known as a great overclocking motherboard [H] Editor's Choice award. Now if you consider that this is a well designed motherboard for Kaby Lake, where does that leave the less expensive Z270 and Z170 motherboards? There are quite a few Z370 motherboards that are using Kaby Lake level power delivery and they are all limiting overclock potential.
Compatibility...What about the cheapest boards out there and OEM's? How much negative sentiment would there be when users tried to drop a new 6 core CPU into their motherboard designed to the absolute minimum of Skylake CPU's and it goes horribly wrong?

There are absolutely Z170 and Z270 motherboards that would handle overclocked Coffee Lake without issue, but the vast majority would not. Having to use a secret decoder ring to determine compatibility is less consumer friendly than making Z370 the baseline for Coffee Lake.

I think enthusiast upgraders are upset, but enthusiast upgraders are just a very small part of the market. So Intel weighs pressure from OEMs who buy millions of processors each versus our desires as plebs who buy a small fraction of that.

OEMs probably are asking for a new thing to sell every year. Back when I worked inside the CPU, the opposite pressure was there. The OEMs put more money into motherboard designs, and didn't want to change them at all, and boy would we catch hell when we came up with a new socket.
Now they are designing stuff which has such razor thin margins, they can barely support POST at even stock settings for the existing chip. Something which may have higher peak current draw? Fogeddaboutit. Need a respin. And marketing message of "all new chipset!" which sounds way better than "somewhat more acceptable power delivery!" ;)

Exactly this.

I think it will be good for people who want to wait and get the newer chipset. Intel usually doesn't like to stay on a chipset for very long. AMD has done better at this, but like it has been said before, if it goes on too long, there are more issues than it's worth.
I look forward to next year and see what each has to bring to the table. I do not really need 8 core more cores unless doing DC projects. So I could delegate my 5960x to those duties and get a new system.
90%+ I am on VR so the cpu does not need to be super strong. My 5960x now barely heats up.

Also this. I had a friend that bought an 8320 and after a year and half, wanted more performance from the games that he was playing. It was a real pain to figure out if his motherboard would actually run one (oh but it was "compatible") of the higher end AMD processors. It turns out that it would not, and that overclocking would be the only way for him to really gain anything, since it would be foolish to spend money on another 8k series CPU which might overclock a tiny bit higher.
So we did overclock and it did not give him the performance that he was looking for. He ended up with a Black Friday deal on a Skylake 6700K and it was a huge upgrade in the games that he plays.
 
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14++ has a slight advantage. It's been pretty linear since SKL. Delidded SKL (14) hits 4.6-4.8Ghz. Delidded KBL (14+) hits 4.8-5.0 average and Delidded CFL (14++) hits 4.9-5.1 average. The same architecture, the same TDP, the same 14nm process...no reason why this couldn't be in the same motherboard if they chose. Even Asus engineers said the same thing in an article linked pages ago.

You do know there are 50% more cores? Not to mention how many did 5.1Ghz..was it 58%? And Asus said what again?
 
You do know there are 50% more cores? Not to mention how many did 5.1Ghz..was it 58%? And Asus said what again?

https://www.bit-tech.net/features/tech/motherboards/asus-interview-andrew-wu-rog-motherboard-pm/1/
bit-tech: Can you go into more technical detail about why the new CPUs are not backwards-compatible with Z270 motherboards?

Andrew: Actually, it depends on Intel’s decision.

bit-tech: So it’s not a physical limitation? Intel said it was to do with power delivery.

Andrew: Not really. It [the power delivery] makes a little bit of difference, but not much.

bit-tech: So what are they referring to – the 20 or so unused pins from before?

Andrew: Yes.

bit-tech: So if you wanted and Intel let you, you could make Z270 compatible?

Andrew: Yes, but you also require an upgrade from the ME [Management Engine] and a BIOS update. Intel somehow has locked the compatibility.

So I can either take your words that the extra power delivery pins are the only reason why Z370 exists, or I can listen to an Asus ROG product manager who says that it "makes a little bit of difference but not much." No offense, but I'm not siding with you in this debate ;).
 
https://www.bit-tech.net/features/tech/motherboards/asus-interview-andrew-wu-rog-motherboard-pm/1/


So I can either take your words that the extra power delivery pins are the only reason why Z370 exists, or I can listen to an Asus ROG product manager who says that it "makes a little bit of difference but not much." No offense, but I'm not siding with you in this debate ;).

He indicates the Z270 chipset itself could be compatible, at least in theory, and thus Z270 boards could be made to support the new CPUs. This is not the same as existing Z270 based motherboards.
Even if they did make the Z270 chipset compatible, new motherboards would be required, as the CPU is using pins which were previously reserved (unused, left floating or all tied to ground). He is saying it would be pretty easy for them to route them up, and he's correct. It's still a new board required to do so.

Now whether or not the new CPUs really required a different pinout is a different question. I don't see anything which smells fishy at all though. Peak power will of course be higher even with the same TDP, which is not what many seem to think it is.
 
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