Munich Council: To Hell with Linux, We’re Going Full Windows in 2020

almalino said:
Average user will not even know what PPT is. So it just proves my point
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I knew you'd say that, in that case, use this:

vxAzfEZh.png


Now that's pretty simple!

Once again, fact is, very few people can install Windows, so your argument is moot.
 
BulletDust said:
Not really, most IT staff are incompetent MS drones.

End user only cares where the browser icon is, where the email icon is, where the office suite is, how to open a .pdf.
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Well, I can't entirely deny that.
But there are a few of us out there who aren't in the mass-majority. ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
Those are also multi-million dollar custom software suites, and I guarantee you the end-users and video editors in those businesses hardly ever touch the OS outside of their editing and rendering software.
If anything outside of that is needed, they just call upon their fully-staffed IT teams.
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Custom software suites! Not at all. They're using Blender and Maya.
 
BulletDust said:
Custom software suites! Not at all. They're using Blender and Maya.
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Nice, that's actually refreshing to hear, err, read. :p
If only the rest of enterprise were actually like that... but again, one can dream!
 
Red Falcon said:
Windows 10? Nah, that's the simplest OS I've ever installed before.
Do I care for it? No.

Is it simple to use? Very.
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Most of my clients would tell you otherwise. They'd claim that compared to Windows 7, Windows 10 is a mishmash of touch/deskop UI not really excelling at either. There's a reason why adoption of Windows 10 is declining, as evidenced by the CEO of MS himself.
 
Red Falcon said:
Nice, that's actually refreshing to hear, err, read. :p
If only the rest of enterprise were actually like that... but again, one can dream!
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He has a vast corperate network of machines running like clockwork. Even backing up client machines is vastly more efficient than Windows as everything is based around files and folders - No shitty registry to babysit.
 
almalino said:
This one is a nice screenshot. And it bricks my HTPC when I choose driver from that list. So I need to go to console and revert the changes.
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I've got a HTPC running Linux, runs far better than the it did under Windows 7. It boots from cold as fast as Windows 7 could start up using S3 suspend to ram.

I run a number of Linux machines here, never once had Additional Drivers brick anything. Not too sure what you're doing?

I have had Nvidia drivers muck up a Windows install quite badly though.
 
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Did you know that the terminal is as necessary under Linux as it is under macOS (so, not terribly necessary for the vast majority of users).
 
BulletDust said:
Most of my clients would tell you otherwise. They'd claim that compared to Windows 7, Windows 10 is a mishmash of touch/deskop UI not really excelling at either. There's a reason why adoption of Windows 10 is declining, as evidenced by the CEO of MS himself.
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Microsoft fixed all of the UI issues and bullshit from Windows 8/8.1 almost completely in Windows 10; outside of the telemetry and spying garbage, Windows 10 is probably the most solid and efficient non-server OS Microsoft has ever made.
If Windows 10 is declining, it isn't because of Windows 7 or Linux, it is because of smartphones and tablets a la iOS and Android (Droid/Linux, but not really the same as the GNU/Linux we want and hope for).
 
BulletDust said:
Did you know that the terminal is as necessary under Linux as it is under macOS (so, not terribly necessary for the vast majority of users).
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Yep, I used to run OS X servers even long after their support from Apple ended, but I wasn't a big fan.
It was definitely stable, but sluggish as heck (just the way OS X's architecture functions), especially compared to Linux and BSD solutions.
 
Red Falcon said:
Microsoft fixed all of the UI issues and bullshit from Windows 8/8.1 almost completely in Windows 10; outside of the telemetry and spying garbage, Windows 10 is probably the most solid and efficient non-server OS Microsoft has ever made.
If Windows 10 is declining, it isn't because of Windows 7 or Linux, it is because of smartphones and tablets a la iOS and Android (Droid/Linux, but not really the same as the GNU/Linux we want and hope for).
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It still uses a fragmented UI that's trying to appeal to touch users as much as desktop users. This confuses people and they don't like it.

The last we could check, Windows 7 and Linux adoption was increasing. It's difficult to check now as Windows is simply lumped as one large category now called 'Windows' under Netmarketshare, there used to be fields for Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1.

But Netmarketshare isn't influenced by MS at all.... ;)
 
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Red Falcon said:
Yep, I used to run OS X servers even long after their support from Apple ended, but I wasn't a big fan.
It was definitely stable, but sluggish as heck (just the way OS X's architecture functions), especially compared to Linux and BSD solutions.
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OSX servers were shit. HFS+ is garbage in networking scenarios.
 
G Suite sucks. The core apps aren't suitable replacements for Office. The only good thing about it doesn't have the garbage pails that are Sharepoint and Skype.
 
BulletDust said:
Office is becoming less and less necessary these days. It's the worlds least compatible Office suite marketed as the most compatible office suite. Most of it's bells and whistles considering licensing costs just aren't necessary in the daily running of a small business. More and more small businesses are switching to the cloud - You're right, the world is a vastly different place to 2004, it's now, more than ever, perfectly suited to anything but Microsoft.

As stated, a very valid study that completely contradicts your claims - Especially the point about training end users. End users are more adaptable than you give them credit for.
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You keep saying "least compatible," but what does that really mean in the real world when most business are using some form of Microsoft Office? In my experience, most spreadsheets that get distributed are in Microsoft's format, and there is a 50:50 chance that it will both open and render correctly in an open source and/or free spreadsheet program. In contrast, in the rare occasion that I get a spreadsheet that is not in the Office format it opens and renders correctly in Excel every time. To most users experiencing the former situation they will never use the alternatives due to them not working correctly in the real world scenarios they will experience in their actual jobs. Really, the only advantage I see in the open source spreadsheet market these days is the ability to have more than the 1,048,576 row limit in Excel in some of the alternatives.
 
BulletDust said:
Yes, it's usually because it's all their IT staff know.
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Which is an argument in Microsoft's favour. That was their grand strategy and it still is. Get the cheap IT staff hooked on the MS suite and that's who (and what) will proliferate. I use Linux for every instance I can in our business but continuity matters and I can't be sure my successor will be as skilled as I am nor should the company have to take on the burden of finding someone. They would, simply because that's the kind of company they are, but most aren't. In the grand scheme of things, people want easy answers not good ones.
 
swatbat said:
For email outlook and exchange is a very good solution. Now the random third party apps that do mail merges or other things that try to tie into office? Yea some of those can go bad really fast.
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Exchange is terrible and always has been. The endless ways it can fuck up your Active Directory is legendary. Even today, when I lookup documentation for my Exchange 2016 it dumps me into 2013 docs, which may or may not apply as "some cmdlets have been changed." It's nice when it works but, when it fucks up, it does it in a big way.
 
Armenius said:
You keep saying "least compatible," but what does that really mean in the real world when most business are using some form of Microsoft Office? In my experience, most spreadsheets that get distributed are in Microsoft's format, and there is a 50:50 chance that it will both open and render correctly in an open source and/or free spreadsheet program. In contrast, in the rare occasion that I get a spreadsheet that is not in the Office format it opens and renders correctly in Excel every time. To most users experiencing the former situation they will never use the alternatives due to them not working correctly in the real world scenarios they will experience in their actual jobs. Really, the only advantage I see in the open source spreadsheet market these days is the ability to have more than the 1,048,576 row limit in Excel in some of the alternatives.
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There's a 50/50 chance an Excel sheet will open correctly in Excel. My favourite bug is when it decided to reinterpret a date column as text, but only for half the rows!
 
BulletDust said:
I've got a HTPC running Linux, runs far better than the it did under Windows 7. It boots from cold as fast as Windows 7 could start up using S3 suspend to ram.

I run a number of Linux machines here, never once had Additional Drivers brick anything. Not too sure what you're doing?

I have had Nvidia drivers muck up a Windows install quite badly though.
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Binary drivers don't always play nicely with embedded GPUs has been my experience, but that was a long time ago. Also could be relegated to using the legacy driver, which can also affect Windows.
 
Todd Walter said:
There's a 50/50 chance an Excel sheet will open correctly in Excel. My favourite bug is when it decided to reinterpret a date column as text, but only for half the rows!
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Okay? I've never had this happen in 20 years. There are very specific reasons that this could happen, and it's always because of the user.
 
It was an Excel sheet saved in 2010 and opened in 2010 and entirely reproducible. Blaming the user for software bugs is silly.
 
UHHHH I MIGHT ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THAT'S LIKE >.>

<.<

Do you know me??? -.-


Frobozz said:
IMO they were basically bought. - Microsoft Germany moved their HQ to Munich in 2016 (linked earlier in the thread)

Imagine all the backflips your local City Council would do if Amazon was thinking about building an HQ in your town.
That's how you go from the goal of becoming independent to "All in!" Leeroy Jenkins style.
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Shintai said:
I wonder how many years work and money they wasted trying to go Linux and LibreOffice.
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The Linux desktop I get. Libre Office for Windows works just fine. I also don't see comments about them leaving Libre Office just the Linux Desktop.
 
Vader1975 said:
The Linux desktop I get. Libre Office for Windows works just fine. I also don't see comments about them leaving Libre Office just the Linux Desktop.
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Even though they don't give implementation details, I would be shocked if they stayed on Libre Office exclusively. They're probably going to get a sweetheart of a deal on all of the latest stuff. Office365, Azure AD, Intune &/or SCCM, all built with consultants and shoving as much into the cloud as possible to "save costs" and probably remove some painful parts of their current IT staffing setup.
 
As a small business owner the most important thing of any of our systems is up time, followed by touch factor, and then last comes cost. We also have a hard time risking downtime 'trying' a new system, which usually ups the touch factor (at least initially) and with that incurs costs.

I read this thread and many people make the assumption that small business' have IT on staff, we do not, no one I know under 50 employees has IT on staff, we all outsource our IT or do it ourselves. So we do not have someone here all the time to help staff with system problems it takes time to get IT support, meaning I usually attempt it first (now I'm wasting my time).

Basically it makes linux unfeasible, especially with how rock solid window's is these days. I remember in the 2000's when we had system problems it could take anywhere from a day to a week to fix, and we would have a system incident 3-4 times a year. As of windows 7 I can count on one hand the incidents we've had that result in down time, and the longest took a day to sort out.

I'm not a window's fan, and I am absolutely not a Microsoft fan, but that is pretty hard to beat, and there is no incentive to attempt a change when everything just works.
 
BulletDust said:
G-Suite craps all over o365.

I migrate businesses all the time.
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As someone with experience with both I fully disagree with this. G-Suite sucks compared to office 365. The amount of issues we have with the crap gmail apps on phones vs office 365 is insane and most of the clients I deal with are using o365. They don't have a good sync option to outlook and don't have anything that compares to it. Hell considering they have done away and brought back their outlook sync I almost want to say it isn't worth trusting but I will say it does work. Sucks compared to exchange but far better than using pop or just straight imap. If they had something that was comparable to outlook it would be one thing, the shitty web interface does not. I've done more than a few migrations off google apps for customers who had someone go in and swap their old sbs server for server standard and gapps.

c_porter said:
G Suite sucks. The core apps aren't suitable replacements for Office. The only good thing about it doesn't have the garbage pails that are Sharepoint and Skype.
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For somethings it does better but overall yea office 365 is far better.

Todd Walter said:
Exchange is terrible and always has been. The endless ways it can fuck up your Active Directory is legendary. Even today, when I lookup documentation for my Exchange 2016 it dumps me into 2013 docs, which may or may not apply as "some cmdlets have been changed." It's nice when it works but, when it fucks up, it does it in a big way.
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On the back end yes it can have some issues. I've given up on trying to uninstall it correctly if I'm removing it from an ad and usually just delete everything out of the ad via adsi edit. No one else's solution works better though.
 
thewooster said:
I love linux, I really really do. But it's just not great for desktop use for anyone who isn't a in dev or IT.
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Windows has a lot of great tools for enterprise administration, things like GPO's. I am fairly certain you can do most of that with Linux but no where as easily. Love Linux myself but app and gaming forces me to use it.
 
B00nie said:
I guess you haven't used linux in a while. It's far easier to use today than windows from the end user perspective.
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Oh, I do use it. And yes, it may be far easier for someone like you and I, but not your regular business user. The biggest issue is integration with other business applications and services. Linux and mac don't even come close in that regard. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation and this article wouldn't exist.
 
MRAB54 said:
Oh, I do use it. And yes, it may be far easier for someone like you and I, but not your regular business user. The biggest issue is integration with other business applications and services. Linux and mac don't even come close in that regard. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation and this article wouldn't exist.
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Gee I have been using a Mac for work quite successfully for the past 7 years. The business applications and services are outdated if they work only on Windows and should be replaced.
 
BulletDust said:
Not really, most IT staff are incompetent MS drones.

End user only cares where the browser icon is, where the email icon is, where the office suite is, how to open a .pdf.
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Maybe in a normal corporation. In the government sector, there tends to be tons of stupid special built software for crap.


BulletDust said:
He has a vast corperate network of machines running like clockwork. Even backing up client machines is vastly more efficient than Windows as everything is based around files and folders - No shitty registry to babysit.
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Not sure why you'd bother backing up client machines. Set folder redirection to your file servers, so all you are doing is backing up your servers. Then as we went to a larger VDI setup, then their Windows settings are even stored on our file servers. Don't care what happens with any client machines.

c_porter said:
G Suite sucks. The core apps aren't suitable replacements for Office. The only good thing about it doesn't have the garbage pails that are Sharepoint and Skype.
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I fucking hate Sharepoint and Skype for Business. I'd hate SQL too, if it weren't for the fact that I don't have to maintain it. So really don't give a damn about it.
 
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