Fisker Claims it Will Build an Electric Car That Charges in 1 Minute

DooKey

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Fisker, the luxury electric auto startup founded by renowned designer and former Tesla consultant Henrik Fisker, claims it's developed a breakthrough that could knock Tesla off its perch as the world's premier electric carmaker - and many completely change the way we use batteries in the process. Supposedly the new battery technology will allow for 500 miles per charge and can be recharged in less than one minute. This sounds well and good, but it's not supposed to be ready until "post 2023". Pie in the sky or real technology?

The upstart company filed patents for a new solid-state battery design that would give its cars some truly astonishing performance capabilities. Fisker says the new batteries will give its vehicles a range of more than 500 miles per charge, with the capability to power up in less than one minute.
 
Some of the early prototypes :ROFLMAO:

fisker-karma-port.jpg


I can imagine some dealers are going to be leery to carry Fisker again. We know a family that owns some car dealerships and one of their dealerships carried Fiskers cause it was all the rage back in 2012. They STILL have brand new Karmas sitting at the dealer since Fisker went belly up in 2013. They are 4-5 years old at this point.
 
I've read some non-related articles on new battery chemistry and charging technologies coming down the pike, so it's definitely possible. How soon though? That's the question.
 
Didn't the old Fisker Karma's use Corvette or Cadillac engines? I've always liked the design ... but their timing / bringing to market wasn't a good time, especially at their price point.
 
The power needed for charging a battery in that time, we don't even have supply cables that could support that without melting. Same with the battery, it's one thing to have a pretty low capacity battery/cap charge in a short time without massive heat issues, it's another for the juice needed to go 500 miles, assuming you ever made a battery that could charge in that time. Sounds like a fluff of what MIGHT be possible with some far off tech they will have in 6 years, in other words, they are hoping this gets all sorts of media, gets new investments and then hoping people forget their claims by the time that 6th year rolls around, that or like above pump it up enough that they can sell off the company.

One reason is this would have impacts FAR and wide, well past EVs, this would change mobile devices of all types as well, this would totally shake up the battery market as a whole and that is FAR more valuable than a single EV.

Points to think about:

"but so far Fisker hasn't yet provided anything to back up its specs"

"Fisker itself is the second act of the brand, after Henrik Fisker sold the original company after recalls and highly publicized battery issues sunk the brand."
 
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If you do the math on the charge rate assuming they only fill it that fast to 80%, its still around 6 MW. I lost the reddit thread where they did the math or I'd relay it exactly. Anyways, its gunna be pretty dang hard to actually charge that fast without harnessing the power of lightning. This is a complete fabrication, or maybe only for billionaires who can build their own power plant (more realistically, they'd use a large battery bank and very, very thick cables).
 
This isn't the original article I read - I can't find it - but this google-fu press release (admittedly light on details) mentions some new innovations (and not Fisker-related). I'll leave it to the chemistry geeks to fact-check it.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ive-lithium-demand-even-higher-657452323.html

"... Enevate's groundbreaking silicon Li-ion battery technology in EV cells can reportedly be charged in 5 minutes at up to a tested 10C charging rate to 75% capacity with uncompromised range and energy densities of over 750 Wh/L, where conventional graphite cells suffer significant degradation with extreme fast charging."
 
Some of the early prototypes :ROFLMAO:

fisker-karma-port.jpg


I can imagine some dealers are going to be leery to carry Fisker again. We know a family that owns some car dealerships and one of their dealerships carried Fiskers cause it was all the rage back in 2012. They STILL have brand new Karmas sitting at the dealer since Fisker went belly up in 2013. They are 4-5 years old at this point.

that was after Sandy, the vehicles were flooded, which Li-Ion does not like. one caught fire, then spread to the others. Li-Ion fires are about as much fun as Mg fires to put out.

The one that caught fire in the guys garage in TX? that pack was still good and i personally saw it in a mule when they were validating the ICE change from GM LNF to BMW N20

IF they still have new ones, then they are with holding selling them. current market values show prices appreciating.

Finally it wasn't battery pack issues that did them in (though A123, the battery supplier, did want to replace most of them), it was the political fallout from DOE loans and the 2012 election cycle. when the DOE loans got yanked, that killed a huge portion of operating capital. the vehicles weren't the problem, it was the politics of the company at the executive level and the lack of a proper PR campaign that did them in.
 
Didn't the old Fisker Karma's use Corvette or Cadillac engines? I've always liked the design ... but their timing / bringing to market wasn't a good time, especially at their price point.

It was a 2.0L Ecotec...so no
 
2.0L Ecotec is GM engine, it is used in various vehicle such as Cadillac so on
 
Sorry I was thinking of the Bob Lutz project (after Fisker went belly up) where he bought Fisker Karma bodies and used the LS motors in them. Wow, the originals had 2.0 Ecotecs? WTF? I love the motor but not in a $$$ luxury car.
 
Fantastic battery if that works out.
For this to function in the current infrastructure or even a greatly upgraded one, the charging stations will need to have huge capacitors/batteries to reduce the strain on the grid when charging.
ie the charging stations can spend an hour our so storing the energy needed to charge the car in one minute.

A downside of very high capacity batteries that charge fast is they may expel their energy faster too.
In an accident it could become like a higher energy bomb or create a huge electrical arc triggering ignition of fuel or electrocuting/burning car occupants.
If it cannot fail safe under normal use with manufacturing defects, overheating, or aged under normal use, same problem.
And as pointed out, water contact can be deadly.
High energy density products are a worry.

A positive aspect of faster charging battery tech is less internal resistance so less heat is generated within the battery for the same rate of current flow.
This is negated partially when it allows much faster charging as even more heat could be created in the same time frame.
As long as it can dissipate the heat quick enough or have long enough to cool before use this could work out ok.
In use, for the same power draw, it should produce less heat.
 
File this headline under, "Shit car manufacturers say when they need venture capital because they make a car nobody wants and are about to file bankruptcy. Again."
 
I mean I can recharge my flashlight in under a minute. I just take the battery out and put in a new one. Maybe that's what they mean.
 
I call utter BS on this.

For a 500 mile range they'd probably need ~150 kWh battery.

Considering real world charging efficiencies of ~85%, they'd need to apply ~175 kWh in a minute.

That would require power delivery of ~10.5 megawatts for the duration of that minute.

That would be like having your own small power plant for a minute, not to mention there not being any power interface capable of handling that.

Assuming a power factor of 1 (this never happens, but lets just assume) you'd need:

- 87,500A at 120V; or
- 50,480A at 208V; or
- 43,750A at 240V... etc.

Let me point out here that the highest power NEMA connector (us power plug standard) is 50A at 240v. This is one 875th of the required power.

I mean I can recharge my flashlight in under a minute. I just take the battery out and put in a new one. Maybe that's what they mean.

You are probably right, that they are referring to something like this, but this would be disingenuous. This is not "charging". This is "replacing".

This is some sort of scam and/or wishful thinking.
 
I call utter BS on this.

For a 500 mile range they'd probably need ~150 kWh battery.

Considering real world charging efficiencies of ~85%, they'd need to apply ~175 kWh in a minute.

That would require power delivery of ~10.5 megawatts for the duration of that minute.

That would be like having your own small power plant for a minute, not to mention there not being any power interface capable of handling that.

Assuming a power factor of 1 (this never happens, but lets just assume) you'd need:

- 87,500A at 120V; or
- 50,480A at 208V; or
- 43,750A at 240V... etc.

Let me point out here that the highest power NEMA connector (us power plug standard) is 50A at 240v. This is one 875th of the required power.



You are probably right, that they are referring to something like this, but this would be disingenuous. This is not "charging". This is "replacing".

This is some sort of scam and/or wishful thinking.

You didn't read that with the new battery, they also invented an ambient temperature superconductor?
 
Thanks Z, so I didn't need to do the math. Because that's the first thing I thought of when I saw "charge in 1 minute" holy fuckballs what kind of current are you going to run? Going to have to use railroad track as conductors so that they don't melt.

Ok not true, my first thought was "and it'll have a run time of 2 minutes?"
 
Thanks Z, so I didn't need to do the math. Because that's the first thing I thought of when I saw "charge in 1 minute" holy fuckballs what kind of current are you going to run? Going to have to use railroad track as conductors so that they don't melt.

Ok not true, my first thought was "and it'll have a run time of 2 minutes?"

At those current levels it would melt a railroad track.
 
Assuming that Fisker does have a way to bring this to market, as others have pointed out, setting up a high speed charging node for ONE of these will be a major undertaking. Now imagine the setup required to charge 10 at a time, like many current gas stations are capable of filling 10 ICE cars at a time.

Or will we have a deal where, sure, we can charge your car in 1 minute, your 1 minute time slice is currently 14 minutes away?

If EV long haul trucks become a thing, truck stops will have to relocate next to major power lines and substations. No more 208 three phase being enough.
 
Assuming a power factor of 1 (this never happens, but lets just assume) you'd need:

- 87,500A at 120V; or
- 50,480A at 208V; or
- 43,750A at 240V... etc.

Let me point out here that the highest power NEMA connector (us power plug standard) is 50A at 240v. This is one 875th of the required power.

Totally doable with current outlets. According to my OSHA training, titled, "Shock, Arc, Blast" current recipticles are able to deliver this much current. Though it's time constrained to about 1 millisecond followed usually by bright lights and self destruct mode :ROFLMAO:
 
Wow, the originals had 2.0 Ecotecs? WTF? I love the motor but not in a $$$ luxury car.
The motor only turned a generator, and that required 220hp for peak output. At the time they wanted a 2.0L or less for economy reasons. Not a lot of options at that time beyond GMs LNF that was 260hp at 2.0L. Gas was preferred over diesel due to weight and emissions. For a large car, packaging was tight, so after treatment systems had little room as well.

They were validating BMW N20 at the time of shutdown, but ironically the BMW techs admitted that motor sounded worse than the GM motor, which was flawless in this application.
 
I call utter BS on this.

For a 500 mile range they'd probably need ~150 kWh battery.

Considering real world charging efficiencies of ~85%, they'd need to apply ~175 kWh in a minute.

That would require power delivery of ~10.5 megawatts for the duration of that minute.

That would be like having your own small power plant for a minute, not to mention there not being any power interface capable of handling that.

Assuming a power factor of 1 (this never happens, but lets just assume) you'd need:

- 87,500A at 120V; or
- 50,480A at 208V; or
- 43,750A at 240V... etc.

Let me point out here that the highest power NEMA connector (us power plug standard) is 50A at 240v. This is one 875th of the required power.



You are probably right, that they are referring to something like this, but this would be disingenuous. This is not "charging". This is "replacing".

This is some sort of scam and/or wishful thinking.
The incoming voltage would have to be 2500+ volts and cam locks or lots and lots of parallel feeds. You are not doing this at a house but i could see special facilities doing this is the battery could take it
 
(more realistically, they'd use a large battery bank and very, very thick cables).

You would need a charging cable thicker than a firehose and some kind of mechanical assist to plug it in since it would be too heavy for some people.

The other option would be to use a higher voltage, but then you would need better/thicker insulation and still have a thick cable to deal with.
 
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The incoming voltage would have to be 2500+ volts and cam locks or lots and lots of parallel feeds. You are not doing this at a house but i could see special facilities doing this is the battery could take it
This.
Multiple charge points to charge the battery in segments as well as lower the load on each coupling could help too.
 
Yeah, I had the LNF in my Solstice GXP (though burping the coolant completely was tough). Loved that little car.
The motor only turned a generator, and that required 220hp for peak output. At the time they wanted a 2.0L or less for economy reasons. Not a lot of options at that time beyond GMs LNF that was 260hp at 2.0L. Gas was preferred over diesel due to weight and emissions. For a large car, packaging was tight, so after treatment systems had little room as well.

They were validating BMW N20 at the time of shutdown, but ironically the BMW techs admitted that motor sounded worse than the GM motor, which was flawless in this application.
 
If you do the math on the charge rate assuming they only fill it that fast to 80%, its still around 6 MW. I lost the reddit thread where they did the math or I'd relay it exactly. Anyways, its gunna be pretty dang hard to actually charge that fast without harnessing the power of lightning.

Well maybe they recruited doc brown.
 
Water jacketed conductor. I see 10kA 4000v drawn through them all the time, and people have no issues moving them around.
 
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Water jacketed conductor. I see 10kA 4000v drawn through them all the time, and people have no issues moving them around.


No one is suggesting that you CAN'T deliver 10.5 MW of power, just that it doesn't seem particularly practical. Certainly not at home, and even on a "local gas station" level it seems a stretch.

You'd essentially need transmission lines going straight to the building...

This is POSSIBLE but there are a lot of real design challenges (especially for a tiny coach builder) and even once those are overcome, you are likely dealing with something that is highly impractical.
 
This.
Multiple charge points to charge the battery in segments as well as lower the load on each coupling could help too.


You'd probably also need some inventive cooling to keep the battery from catching ablaze during charging.
 
"....but it's not supposed to be ready until "post 2023"."

So, about the same time as all the other battery breakthroughs we've been hearing about are expected to achieve commercial production. Mkay!
 
No one is suggesting that you CAN'T deliver 10.5 MW of power, just that it doesn't seem particularly practical. Certainly not at home, and even on a "local gas station" level it seems a stretch.

You'd essentially need transmission lines going straight to the building...


7200v and 4000 everywhere, even 12.8kv. Use a VFD, problem solved.
 
Graphene batteries again. Great in concept but worthless until we can figure out how to mass produce the stuff.
 
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