Paradise Papers: Apple’s Secret Tax Bolthole Revealed

Megalith

Megalith

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The Paradise Papers, a huge leak of financial documents throwing light on the world of offshore finance, have revealed how Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its controversial Irish tax practices by actively shopping around for a tax haven. It then moved the firm holding most of its untaxed offshore cash, now $252bn, to the Channel Island of Jersey.

Up until 2014, the tech company had been exploiting a loophole in tax laws in the US and the Republic of Ireland known as the "double Irish." This allowed Apple to funnel all its sales outside of the Americas - currently about 55% of its revenue - through Irish subsidiaries that were effectively stateless for taxation purposes, and so incurred hardly any tax.
 
Our corrupt government won't do it, but pull the military and our arm- twisting agencies from around world.. lets see how profitable the Apples of the USA remain for how long. Prediction: they will be eaten alive in 10 years.
 
i don't care for multi-national entities, but that's a gut feeling and not something i've evaluated heavily. that being said, there are laws and unless Apple is violating laws, everyone should stfu.

i also look at laws as the the programming language of legal discourse. i don't think there is such a thing as a loophole. there are certainly intentional turds floated through the law and likely torrents of incompetent law vomited out of the world's law makers, but i still don't care for the idea of a loophole. 'loophole' puts the stink on people following the law where the stink really belongs on shitty law-makers who generally suck at their job.

laws encourage certain behaviors. clearly the tax laws have encouraged this behavior from quite a few entities
 
Its sad that a company that benefits so much from this country and the people willing to bend over backwards to buy their stuff does everything possible to screw us by not paying their fair share of taxes like every other hard working American.
 
3 comments, 2 for unpatriotic and greedy corps, and the usual 1 for "it's the law". Well divided so far I guess. Sure it's the law Messy, but aren't you equally disgusted by those in power that lobby and write these laws for their own benefit? Why should a huge conglomerate collecting 55% of their revenue in the US be able to skip fair share when a Mom&Pop have to pay 100% or go to jail?
 
RayderR6 said:
3 comments, 2 for unpatriotic and greedy corps, and the usual 1 for "it's the law". Well divided so far I guess. Sure it's the law Messy, but aren't you equally disgusted by those in power that lobby and write these laws for their own benefit? Why should a huge conglomerate collecting 55% of their revenue in the US be able to skip fair share when a Mom&Pop have to pay 100% or go to jail?
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sure i'm disgusted. but until we go Jeffersonian on it and replenish the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots, we are operating within a broken system. that being said i do think we need to step outside the broken law because i don't think a broken machine can fix itself. especially an intentionally broken machine that does not WANT to fix itself
 
bigdogchris said:
Its sad that a company that benefits so much from this country and the people willing to bend over backwards to buy their stuff does everything possible to screw us by not paying their fair share of taxes like every other hard working American.
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This is what I say over and over again. I just don't understand how they sleep at night. They want to live in this country, profit off the people in it, but then go way way way out of their way to not pay their fair share in taxes. It's like "Motherfucker, how much money do you need?" It just really pisses me off how politicians tell us we need to pay our fair share, have a flat rate tax amount, lower corporate taxes, but yet won't do shit about these loopholes. There should be a deal put in place that says if you bring the money back to the states then we'll tax it at a lower amount, and everyone has a timetable to do it. Once that money is back then we close the loopholes for good. It's disgusting and greedy as fuck. Trickle down? Bullshit. Nothing trickles down. They hoard their money and don't reinvest it. Estimates from last year from OxFam said that there is approximately 1.4TN dollars in overseas holdings from US corporations.
 
zamardii12 said:
This is what I say over and over again. I just don't understand how they sleep at night. They want to live in this country, profit off the people in it, but then go way way way out of their way to not pay their fair share in taxes. It's like "Motherfucker, how much money do you need?" It just really pisses me off how politicians tell us we need to pay our fair share, have a flat rate tax amount, lower corporate taxes, but yet won't do shit about these loopholes. There should be a deal put in place that says if you bring the money back to the states then we'll tax it at a lower amount, and everyone has a timetable to do it. Once that money is back then we close the loopholes for good. It's disgusting and greedy as fuck. Trickle down? Bullshit. Nothing trickles down. They hoard their money and don't reinvest it. Estimates from last year from OxFam said that there is approximately 1.4TN dollars in overseas holdings from US corporations.
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This is the very definition of greed. They want more more more but don't care about anyone else. The government work go after the corps for the dodged taxes but instead raise taxes on the population to cover the lost tax revenue from those corps. They won't even go after them......there is no such thing as the "for the people" anymore. Its for themselves, and lining their pockets with the same money that the corp should have paid to better the country. "We the people" have lived as modern day slaves for quite a long time now lobbyists and congress are controlled by the greed of watching out for themselves.
 
zamardii12 said:
. It's like "Motherfucker, how much money do you need?".
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All of it. All of the money. Destruction of the competition and success for your shareholders.

I see nothing wrong what apple is done because they are following the laws of the global tax system. If they are found violating any of the tax laws then by all means punish them. I envy their ability to shuffle this money around I wish I could do the same.
 
If that $252 Billion ($252,000,000,000.00) were kept in the U.S. and Apple was paying its fair share of taxes then that would be over $88 Billion in taxes paid. Think how many universities it could fund lowering student aid debt; think of how long kid's medicaid (CHIP) could be paid for rather than letting it expire; think of all the other ways this money could be used to reduce the debt burden on U.S. citizens. Remember that laughable $300 stimulus check most taxpayers got about a dozen years ago, well the tax bill on Apple's hoard is more like $2,500 per citizen, let alone per taxpayer. Apple benefits from US protections and US laws but refuses to uphold its end of the bargain.

And that OxFam number of 1.4 Trillion is only for the 50 largest companies. The full total is somewhere between double and triple that amount.

Bigdady92 said:
All of it. All of the money. Destruction of the competition and success for your shareholders.

I see nothing wrong what apple is done because they are following the laws of the global tax system. If they are found violating any of the tax laws then by all means punish them. I envy their ability to shuffle this money around I wish I could do the same.
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When you get the law changed or prevent it from being enforced then that alters the equation a bit. If I hand write onto the monopoly rules that I get $2,000 every time anybody passes go and houses and hotels are free for me, then it's not exactly a fair game anymore but would still be "following" the rules.
 
It's worth taking a look at why companies do it. It's to avoid taxes. The US has about the highest corporate income tax rate of any in the developed world: 40%. Should we really be shocked that companies choose to not claim that income in the US?

 
Teenyman45 said:
When you get the law changed or prevent it from being enforced then that alters the equation a bit. If I hand write onto the monopoly rules that I get $2,000 every time anybody passes go and houses and hotels are free for me, then it's not exactly a fair game anymore but would still be "following" the rules.
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So change the law. That's the only way to prevent global companies from hiding funds in various holding companies and doing this type of lawful and legal activity.

Politicians are too chicken shit scared to alter the tax code so companies can keep more of their profits inside the US.
 
Messy said:
i don't care for multi-national entities, but that's a gut feeling and not something i've evaluated heavily. that being said, there are laws and unless Apple is violating laws, everyone should stfu.
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Yeah, god forbid they get discussed so much the laws get changed. Better to stfu.
 
These tax laws were made by the rich for the rich, deal with it... nothing will change.
 
Mohonri said:
It's worth taking a look at why companies do it. It's to avoid taxes. The US has about the highest corporate income tax rate of any in the developed world: 40%. Should we really be shocked that companies choose to not claim that income in the US?
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You think that if the tax rate was dropped to 10 or even 5% suddenly corporations would be lining up to bring their money back into the country and pay up? Why would they do that when they can continue to use the workarounds and pay nothing?
 
gtrguy said:
You think that if the tax rate was dropped to 10 or even 5% suddenly corporations would be lining up to bring their money back into the country and pay up? Why would they do that when they can continue to use the workarounds and pay nothing?
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George W gave them a repatriation opportunity, they just got more greedy using that as another loophole.
 
Enlighten me again why moan again? How about our government stfu and control their own shit.
Teenyman45 said:
If that $252 Billion ($252,000,000,000.00) were kept in the U.S. and Apple was paying its fair share of taxes then that would be over $88 Billion in taxes paid. Think how many universities it could fund lowering student aid debt; think of how long kid's medicaid (CHIP) could be paid for rather than letting it expire; think of all the other ways this money could be used to reduce the debt burden on U.S. citizens. Remember that laughable $300 stimulus check most taxpayers got about a dozen years ago, well the tax bill on Apple's hoard is more like $2,500 per citizen, let alone per taxpayer. Apple benefits from US protections and US laws but refuses to uphold its end of the bargain.

And that OxFam number of 1.4 Trillion is only for the 50 largest companies. The full total is somewhere between double and triple that amount.



When you get the law changed or prevent it from being enforced then that alters the equation a bit. If I hand write onto the monopoly rules that I get $2,000 every time anybody passes go and houses and hotels are free for me, then it's not exactly a fair game anymore but would still be "following" the rules.
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Troll post. You would see nothing. Stop deluding yourself. It would have been spent on military and other stupid things. Tell the government to trim their spending on bullshit and the problem is solved. None of the big corporations pay any taxes in States.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-profitable-companies-paid-no-taxes/81399094/
 
These companies are beholden only to share holders. They are required by law to make money for said shareholders. I bet if they chose not to use these work arounds in tax law they would be sued by their shareholders for not doing so and increasing share holder value. It's a broken system from every angle.
 
Mohonri said:
It's worth taking a look at why companies do it. It's to avoid taxes. The US has about the highest corporate income tax rate of any in the developed world: 40%. Should we really be shocked that companies choose to not claim that income in the US?
Click to expand...

While it's nowhere near the bottom, it's not at the top either. The effective rate is higher in Argentina and Japan, and we are tied with the UK. The statutory rate is NOT the rate that most corporations pay. The average effective rate is only 18.6%. And if you compare corporate tax revenues as a percentage of GDP, we are actually below average compared to other countries. So this idea that corporations are overtaxed is nonsense, especially considering the enormous benefit US companies enjoy in exchange for those tax dollars, compared to other countries. Now, while you could say that companies like Apple using loopholes to dodge taxes is evidence that our tax rates are too high, I call BS on that too. Even if you dropped the tax rate down to 20%, and also did not close any loopholes or reduce deductions, companies like Apple would still hoard their money overseas. It's not the tax rate causing this, it's greed.
 
zamardii12 said:
This is what I say over and over again. I just don't understand how they sleep at night. They want to live in this country, profit off the people in it, but then go way way way out of their way to not pay their fair share in taxes. It's like "Motherfucker, how much money do you need?" It just really pisses me off how politicians tell us we need to pay our fair share, have a flat rate tax amount, lower corporate taxes, but yet won't do shit about these loopholes. There should be a deal put in place that says if you bring the money back to the states then we'll tax it at a lower amount, and everyone has a timetable to do it. Once that money is back then we close the loopholes for good. It's disgusting and greedy as fuck. Trickle down? Bullshit. Nothing trickles down. They hoard their money and don't reinvest it. Estimates from last year from OxFam said that there is approximately 1.4TN dollars in overseas holdings from US corporations.
Click to expand...

SomeoneElse said:
This is the very definition of greed. They want more more more but don't care about anyone else. The government work go after the corps for the dodged taxes but instead raise taxes on the population to cover the lost tax revenue from those corps. They won't even go after them......there is no such thing as the "for the people" anymore. Its for themselves, and lining their pockets with the same money that the corp should have paid to better the country. "We the people" have lived as modern day slaves for quite a long time now lobbyists and congress are controlled by the greed of watching out for themselves.
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I agree...
What really gets me is how extreme the greed is.
And no they don't operate in the world in a vacuum, the operate under the umbrella of our power projection (as messy as that can or may be).
Those 'non-USA' profit unquestionably deserve to be taxed at US tax-rates in favor of the US.
 
It is absolutely puzzling to me how Americans still love Apple when Apple's actions directly say they don't give a crap about them.
 
darckhart said:
It is absolutely puzzling to me how Americans still love Apple when Apple's actions directly say they don't give a crap about them.
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NO major company gives a crap about their customers or countries beyond how to use them to maximize profits. They're beholden to their shareholders to make the most profit possible. Everything else is secondary.
 
Messy said:
i don't care for multi-national entities, but that's a gut feeling and not something i've evaluated heavily. that being said, there are laws and unless Apple is violating laws, everyone should stfu.

i also look at laws as the the programming language of legal discourse. i don't think there is such a thing as a loophole. there are certainly intentional turds floated through the law and likely torrents of incompetent law vomited out of the world's law makers, but i still don't care for the idea of a loophole. 'loophole' puts the stink on people following the law where the stink really belongs on shitty law-makers who generally suck at their job.

laws encourage certain behaviors. clearly the tax laws have encouraged this behavior from quite a few entities
Click to expand...

The wording of "loophole" is just horrible, and shows a total lack of understanding by most people, yet these same people, if they know of a legal way to save money on buying an item, or paying their own taxes, they do it, but when a company does it, it's a "loophole". No, it's not, its the law and they are trying to maximize their savings, like any good business would. If they don't like the way the law is written, then have it changed, but they really need to stop with this "loophole" BS.

RayderR6 said:
3 comments, 2 for unpatriotic and greedy corps, and the usual 1 for "it's the law". Well divided so far I guess. Sure it's the law Messy, but aren't you equally disgusted by those in power that lobby and write these laws for their own benefit? Why should a huge conglomerate collecting 55% of their revenue in the US be able to skip fair share when a Mom&Pop have to pay 100% or go to jail?
Click to expand...

And what fair share would that be? I hear this all the time, but no number is ever given or even explained as to why. You also do understand they DO pay their legal share right? With an effective rate of almost 30%, Apple, which reserved $15.8 billion for income taxes on $59 billion in operating income and that is just income taxes! Not the host of others they have to pay as well. Yes, lets tax them an even more "fair share" so they move EVERYTHING out of the US and we lose even more jobs. Rather than wanting to tax our economy to death, how about we show this same out rage to government spending.
 
Bandalo said:
NO major company gives a crap about their customers or countries beyond how to use them to maximize profits. They're beholden to their shareholders to make the most profit possible. Everything else is secondary.
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Being beholden to their shareholders is a technicality. Corporate entities are really only beholden to the top shareholders and board members that set company policy to align with their personal goals. Very few companies are truly maximizing shareholder return, especially on a prolonged basis.
 
Teenyman45 said:
Being beholden to their shareholders is a technicality. Corporate entities are really only beholden to the top shareholders and board members that set company policy to align with their personal goals. Very few companies are truly maximizing shareholder return, especially on a prolonged basis.
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It's a technicality until their quarterly reports show them paying millions in taxes they could have avoided by shuffling their funds around better. Then the savvy shareholders start asking uncomfortable questions.
 
Really its no different from Amazon looking to build another HQ some where in the US. All of these states are trying to entice Amazon to build in their city by offering them tax breaks......WTF?! tax breaks to bring the HQ into the state, how is that going to benefit the citizen of the state in anyway? By raising the taxes so the company can build its HQ for free to them but on the back of the state citizens?
 
SomeoneElse said:
Really its no different from Amazon looking to build another HQ some where in the US. All of these states are trying to entice Amazon to build in their city by offering them tax breaks......WTF?! tax breaks to bring the HQ into the state, how is that going to benefit the citizen of the state in anyway? By raising the taxes so the company can build its HQ for free to them but on the back of the state citizens?
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So letting a company keep the money it earns, investing 5 billion into the project and supplying jobs for 50,000 people with an average salary of $100,000 is "on the back of the state citizens"? Ok...
 
Bigdady92 said:
So change the law. That's the only way to prevent global companies from hiding funds in various holding companies and doing this type of lawful and legal activity.

Politicians are too chicken shit scared to alter the tax code so companies can keep more of their profits inside the US.
Click to expand...

As soon as people start talking about changing the tax code it's all "Tax breaks for the millionaires and top 1%" Then politicians who were friendly to the idea (Republicans) get blowback, and if they're the minority party, they have no chance of passing legislation anyways, so the discussion becomes a liability if you're a politician in a politically moderate state.
 
BlueFireIce said:
So letting a company keep the money it earns, investing 5 billion into the project and supplying jobs for 50,000 people with an average salary of $100,000 is "on the back of the state citizens"? Ok...
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the HQ will have 50,000 jobs? The tax increase is permanent the jobs aren't.(the 50K jobs includes the workers building the HQ) The look at the owners of the NFL, they move 1 billion dollar projects to states where they will pay for the building of a new stadium at the expense of the tax payer. Do you think that's a fair deal to the state citizens?
 
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That said, the arguments that "well they'll invest in the company which better helps the country" mentality are kind of stupid. Because as it stands they can do that, corporate taxes are not like personal taxes where you're taxed on how much money is brought in, you're only taxed on the actual profit, so if you take said profit and reinvest in your company then it is no longer profit, it's an operating expense and now you don't pay taxes at all. To compound on things, you don't even need to reinvest within a fiscal year, so if you have record profits one year, then throw billions buying another company the next, guess what, refund of what you paid the previous year.

Overall I get the mentality, you think reinvesting is what would happen if there is no taxes, but the sad reality is that it would simply allow companies to horde money, and that the way things current work encourages reinvestment.
 
Some of you think only Apple is doing this? Wrong - corporations are always looking for ways to reduce costs and maximize profits. I know Apple is fun to beat up on, but they are one of many.
 
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SomeoneElse said:
the HQ will have 50,000 jobs? The tax increase is permanent the jobs aren't.(the 50K jobs includes the workers building the HQ) The look at the owners of the NFL, they move 1 billion dollar projects to states where they will pay for the building of a new stadium at the expense of the tax payer. Do you think that's a fair deal to the state citizens?
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What tax increase? Nothing is being paid to Amazon, the incentives are NON REFUNDABLE tax credits, meaning Amazon just gets to keep the money they have rightfully earned. The 50,000 jobs are not short term construction, those are long term and all the tax credits, which is part of the EDGE tax credit (available to anyone, not just Amazon) are linked to payroll taxes, meaning if they don't make or keep those jobs they do not receive the tax credits. I don't think you understand the size of Amazon, as HQ2 is planned to be the equal of their current HQ, which supports over 40,000 jobs right now. There will be an ADDITIONAL 53,000 construction and secondary jobs as well. They (Amazon) are investing $3.7B into construction and infrastructure in the area and and paying 43 million into the public transportation workers benefits fund and so on and so on.

What you are saying is you don't know anything about the plan, the tax incentives, or impact to the economy or jobs, but you do know you hate corporations, so BAD BAD EVIL!!!

As for the NFL, I don't remember saying a single thing about them, and cities pay out right money (not just tax incentives) to them, which is wholly different and beyond the scope of what government should be using tax dollars for.
 
you know that story about the frog and the scorpion? we know what corporations are. it's hard to argue that they don't exist for the benefit of their shareholders. you can say that and not come off as batshit crazy. they are the scorpion. expecting them to act differently than their fundamental nature is poor judgement. (they need their legal personhood rejected though. wtf. Citizens United yay....)

the blame lies with our corrupt political heroes. they also have a defined role, but unlike corporations they don't seem to do too great of a job living up to it.
 
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