What the hell's with this hard-on for Killer NICs?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 126051
  • Start date
D

Deleted member 126051

Guest
Just saw that ASUS is putting out an X299 with a Killer on it now.

Can anyone SERIOUSLY fill me in? I know you can tweak your networking a bit and get slightly lower latency and some traffic prioritization. But enough to justify the price increase?

The last time I seriously looked at them, Killer NICs were still just a pricey toy. What, if anything, has changed?
 
They aren't any faster than a proper Intel NIC, but they do offer traffic prioritization, more stable drivers than Realtek, and even ever so slightly less latency (due to traffic prioritization.) We're talking 0.5-3ms, with a maximum of 5ms difference in most cases. If your local network is already DSCP tagged, or has any form of traffic classing on your switches you probably won't see much difference. The onboard Killer NIC offer plebs a tiny taste of what their home network should already be. Shaping from client end points always seemed like a real bad way to handle anything, so I try to avoid them, YMMV.
 
Farkle said:
T Shaping from client end points always seemed like a real bad way to handle anything, so I try to avoid them, YMMV.
Click to expand...

It is, escpecially considering your ISP doesn't care and will always be the weakest link. But for the more or less extinct lan party, you still won't notice anything lol.
 
i prefer a real intel nic over any fancy killer looking at hardware side only
I would prefer even realtek above killer when it comes to drivers side and how many issues killer drivers give
 
Beyond any of that, it sure as hell isn't going to help you aim any better or your hand-eye coordination for any non-FPS game.
 
Who would possibly think that it would?? It also won't help your fuel economy...

Killer NIC seems pretty trash and IMO is one of the worst things about the enthusiast PC market right now. At least with RGB "off" is an option.
 
For everyone in this thread who has ripped killer nics, when was the last time you used one?
 
Every ASRock generations of motherboards has a Killer board with Killer NIC. Definitely not a pricey toy at all. What everyone hates is the standard Killer driver suite. Most install the driver manually in Device Manager, which works perfectly fine.
 
We use Dell XPS15 9360 in my department, they all have Killer NIC wifi. We have had so many problems with them that Dell is replacing all the Killer's with Intel.

The Killer wifi NICs blow up some home routers - the running joke at work is that Killer is an adjective not a noun :)
 
trick0502 said:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/09/28/asus_rog_zenith_extreme_threadripper_mobo_review/4



LAN1 (Intel i211-AT)

1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_8.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_9.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_10.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_11.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_12.gif


In our write or upload test, we saw an average throughput of 56.07MB/s. In the read or download test the average transfer rate was 68.45MB/s. The maximum transfer rate in the upload or write test was 60.74MB/s. In the download or read test the maximum transfer rate was 72.28MB/s. The minimum transfer rate in the upload or write test was 54.14MB/s. In the download or read test, the minimum throughput was 65.91MB/s. CPU utilization was 2% in both the read and write tests.



LAN2 (Killer NIC E2500

1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_13.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_14.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_15.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_16.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_17.gif


In the write test, we saw an average transfer rate of 52.88MB/s. In the read or download test we saw an average throughput of 81.88MB/s. The maximum transfer rate in the write test was 55.73MB/s and 85.38MB/s in the read or download test. Lastly, our minimum transfer rates were 46.61MB/s (upload) and 79.75MB/s (download). CPU utilization climbed to 3% in the write test and 5% in the download test.


is the intel really an upgrade?
Click to expand...
Hehe, you think performance has anything to do with this?
 
My board came with a Killer NIC, it works fine and you can download plain drivers for it with none of the fancy Killer features.
 
I have a Gigabyte Aorus motherboard with a Killer and an Intel port on it. I use the Intel one exclusively. I don't need any of the features, and when I used it for basic things (gaming, file transfers, etc.), there wasn't any difference. I'm probably not the target consumer, though. 25/2 DSL, home server (just need throughput), etc.. I don't really need a lot of their features.

It's not bad, but I just like the Intel ones better.
 
My recent build includes the Aorus Gaming 7 (X399) with Killer ethernet. With Advanced Stream Detect on, I got half the upload speed of my previous computer with Intel ethernet. I have AT&T with ~120 Mbps down & up.

I also couldn’t watch a stream while online gaming, which worked perfectly fine before and theoretically have plenty of bandwidth for. I turned off Advanced Stream Detect (basically disable all the Killer value-add) and everything works as before (full upload speeds, streams don’t stutter and slow down)

As far as I’m concerned it’s pure junk.
 
I received one of the PCI-E models for free from a friend a while back. Slapped it into my rig for the he'll of it. I actually did see a tiny improvement in latency tests, but nothing to write home about. Throughput from simple file transfers was similar, maybe ever so slightly better than my onboard.

My personal opinion is this: Was the Killer NIC any improvement over existing on board NIC years ago when first developed and released? Yeah, in some cases it was a marginal improvement. Is it worthwhile upgrade for most NIC of today? I don't think so. And either way it certainly wasn't worth the price.
 
CookieFactory said:
My recent build includes the Aorus Gaming 7 (X399) with Killer ethernet. With Advanced Stream Detect on, I got half the upload speed of my previous computer with Intel ethernet. I have AT&T with ~120 Mbps down & up.

I also couldn’t watch a stream while online gaming, which worked perfectly fine before and theoretically have plenty of bandwidth for. I turned off Advanced Stream Detect (basically disable all the Killer value-add) and everything works as before (full upload speeds, streams don’t stutter and slow down)

As far as I’m concerned it’s pure junk.
Click to expand...

You need to uninstall that shit Killer tweaking software and just use the plain drivers:

http://killernetworking.com/driver-downloads/category/other-downloads
 
trick0502 said:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/09/28/asus_rog_zenith_extreme_threadripper_mobo_review/4



LAN1 (Intel i211-AT)

1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_8.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_9.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_10.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_11.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_12.gif


In our write or upload test, we saw an average throughput of 56.07MB/s. In the read or download test the average transfer rate was 68.45MB/s. The maximum transfer rate in the upload or write test was 60.74MB/s. In the download or read test the maximum transfer rate was 72.28MB/s. The minimum transfer rate in the upload or write test was 54.14MB/s. In the download or read test, the minimum throughput was 65.91MB/s. CPU utilization was 2% in both the read and write tests.



LAN2 (Killer NIC E2500

1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_13.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_14.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_15.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_16.gif
1502946339gb2ti90edw_4_17.gif


In the write test, we saw an average transfer rate of 52.88MB/s. In the read or download test we saw an average throughput of 81.88MB/s. The maximum transfer rate in the write test was 55.73MB/s and 85.38MB/s in the read or download test. Lastly, our minimum transfer rates were 46.61MB/s (upload) and 79.75MB/s (download). CPU utilization climbed to 3% in the write test and 5% in the download test.


is the intel really an upgrade?
Click to expand...

First off, that's the Intel i211-AT, not the i219v that's built into the Intel chipsets and accessed through a PHY. The i211-AT is Intel's bottom end server adapter. Typically I've found the Intel and Killer NICs to be relatively close in performance on a given board, however the Killer NIC almost always achieves either performance parity, or a performance advantage (in rare cases) at the cost of increased CPU utilization. I will also say that while I'm not a fan of the Killer NIC, it's drivers in Windows 10 have been pretty good. One other caveat to these tests is that I tend to use whatever driver for the Intel NIC the motherboard manufacturer provides. Either with the motherboard, or via it's website. You might be able to find newer and better drivers from Intel directly.
 
Master_shake_ said:
killer.jpg


i mean if this doesn't explain everything then i am sorry.
Click to expand...

I think your information is woefully out of date. That's circa 2006. The newer ones are Windows only and doesn't tout lower CPU utilization on it's product pages. This is due to the software suite being needed to achieve the best results, and not specifically a lack of drivers for alternative OSes. In fact, lower CPU utilization is unlikely (and doesn't happen in my tests) given that the Killer NIC relies on software to prioritize packets in order to achieve greater performance. What was true back then, is largely true now. Any advantage the Killer NIC ever has over an Intel NIC, is minimal at best and not worth a cost increase. The difference was that the original Killer NIC was a hardware based solution with some additional abilities network controllers at the time didn't have. The newer NICs, are far more conventional designs.

The Killer NIC product page is largely marketing fluff. It showcases speeds I've never seen achieved using the default settings of it's software. It shows ping times for the "competition" which I've never seen as being that bad. I game on my computer probably a little each day using the "competition's" network controllers. I see ping times equal to those I've ever gotten with a Killer NIC on a modern motherboard. In fact, the test they reference shows the competition as having a bittorrent download going on in the background, but I'd wager no packet prioritization is being employed on the Intel controller. Even though, software for that exists. In fact, I've seen at least one manufacturer often include the cFos software for this purpose.
 
Master_shake_ said:
i mean if this doesn't explain everything then i am sorry.
Click to expand...

Oh it explains something alright, just not what you think: they are full of shit.

If LAN latency is a problem, there are better things than ethernet such as infiniband with links measured in microseconds. Clearly not a gamer issue.

Intel nics, even their cheapest stuff, are basically tanks with well maintained drivers for any current useful OS. The biggest issue is dumb firmware problems which is supply chain related more often than not. Shop careful on fleabay, but I've seen dell and hp servers show up with fucked nics so nobody is immune. Most of these problems can be fixed with software tools anyways.
 
Aluminum said:
Intel nics, even their cheapest stuff, are basically tanks with well maintained drivers for any current useful OS. The biggest issue is dumb firmware problems which is supply chain related more often than not. Shop careful on fleabay, but I've seen dell and hp servers show up with fucked nics so nobody is immune. Most of these problems can be fixed with software tools anyways.
Click to expand...
I'd say the biggest problem with Intel is all the fakes on ebay, amazon, et al. Even you won't know until you call Intel to get warranty service on the card:
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/comparison-intel-i350-t4-genuine-vs-fake.6917/
 
I've never really understood the fascination either.

Sure, I get that the same crowd that's wow'd by Alienware might be suckered into the expense of a KillerNic, but there are a lot of IT folks who are just as enamored.

The power of marketing I guess.
 
Well, guess I'll look for a different board without the shit, overpriced marketing gimmick.
 
Chas said:
Well, guess I'll look for a different board without the shit, overpriced marketing gimmick.
Click to expand...

Almost nothing in this world is perfect. If you really like a motherboard and the only downside is the Killer NIC, I would go ahead and probably buy it and deal with it. The Killer NIC isn't that bad. I simply prefer the Intel NICs. Unless we are talking about wireless, in which case the Killer Wireless has been considerably faster in my experience. However, your mileage may vary.
 
Dan_D said:
Almost nothing in this world is perfect. If you really like a motherboard and the only downside is the Killer NIC, I would go ahead and probably buy it and deal with it. The Killer NIC isn't that bad. I simply prefer the Intel NICs. Unless we are talking about wireless, in which case the Killer Wireless has been considerably faster in my experience. However, your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...
Think of it in terms of the built-in video or audio on a motherboard. No one likes that stuff (I've hated the integrated video/audio from the first day it started appearing on motherboards.), so we just pop in the card we want and move on--same thing with the nic. I've even put in an Intel server nic to replace built-in realtek ones because I had spare intels.
 
My board came with a Killer and an Intel. I never remember which is which, so any time I unplug it for some reason or another I just plug it in to which ever is most convenient. I've never seen a difference in speed or latency between them. I tried the killer software when i first got the board. It works well, but nothing you cant do with a newer router.
 
Jeff G said:
My board came with a Killer and an Intel. I never remember which is which, so any time I unplug it for some reason or another I just plug it in to which ever is most convenient. I've never seen a difference in speed or latency between them. I tried the killer software when i first got the board. It works well, but nothing you cant do with a newer router.
Click to expand...

The killer is pink inside.
 
see if anyone can figure this one out...

i have a gigabyte z170 board with....you guessed it!....onboard killer NIC!!

honestly i didn't care either way when i bought the board, it was on sale for a good price and has been solid. had no bearing on my choice. but now i discover a strange issue....playing with the settings in the crap killer software and all it has is ISP upload and download, both are preset to 1500 mbit. auto speed test doesn't work, whatever. my service is 40 mbit down and 10 up so i toss those values in.

next thing you know my system starts stuttering, temporarily freezing and eventually full lock up. wasn't sure what the cause was at first since it didn't seem consistent.....until i see that the system interrupts process is peaking at over 40% cpu utilization. ok, something isn't right here. some short trial and error and yeah its network based. reset those ISP speed settings back to 1500 up and down and it's magically cured.

are these killer NICs really THAT bad? i don't care much if its the best out there, i don't play online games much these days but something like this is what i'd expect from a beta driver.
 
You can get good results if you play with that software. However, as you've discovered, it's also possible to totally fuck the performance up while doing that as well. I've been one of the most vocal reviewers when it comes to expressing my dislike for just about anything. This includes the Killer NIC. That said, they aren't as bad as they used to be. I don't mess with the software much. Generally I don't even install it. I have to keep the base settings for both Intel and Killer NICs for comparison purposes. However, I've seen weird shit when I have messed with that software.
 
Dan_D said:
You can get good results if you play with that software. However, as you've discovered, it's also possible to totally fuck the performance up while doing that as well. I've been one of the most vocal reviewers when it comes to expressing my dislike for just about anything. This includes the Killer NIC. That said, they aren't as bad as they used to be. I don't mess with the software much. Generally I don't even install it. I have to keep the base settings for both Intel and Killer NICs for comparison purposes. However, I've seen weird shit when I have messed with that software.
Click to expand...

What gets me here is that I didn't put in incorrect settings at all, I put in exactly what the software asks for and yet that was what caused things to go haywire. I can see why there are so many complaints.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top