*happy* mother-f'n *campers* unite! Awesome news!
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Star Control: Origins
- Thread starter Blade-Runner
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*happy* mother-f'n *campers* unite! Awesome news!
defaultluser
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Good, I was bored stiff as soon as I heard it was Stardock. Gal Civ series put me to sleep, because they have no idea how to write anything even remotely interesting.
I feel like they survive based on Wardells hype alone, and the fact that they published the awesome Sins of a Solar Empire (but had no part in the creation). The rest of their self-developed titles on Steam are either simple cards games, or all universally rated 6-7 out of 10, which screams "meh, but playable."
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Island Dog
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Star Control: Origins Fleet Battles Beta begins today!
Trailer:
More info here: https://forums.starcontrol.com/485611
Trailer:
More info here: https://forums.starcontrol.com/485611
Blade-Runner
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https://www.pcgamer.com/star-control-creators-file-lawsuit-against-stardock/
Well this unexpectedly turned to shit.
Well this unexpectedly turned to shit.
Island Dog
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We’ve just posted a Q+A regarding the legal dispute with Paul and Fred.
https://forums.starcontrol.com/487690/
https://forums.starcontrol.com/487690/
defaultluser
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It's no surprise. Brad let his mouth do the thinking, like usual. He only bought the Star Control trademark, not the rights to resell the previous games. Copyright on those returned to the creator, after the publisher failed to meet portions fo the contract (pay royalties, make Star Control 4). But Brad believes it to be so, so he tells everyone they own the copyright in his usual triumphant manner.
This shouldn't prevent them from shipping their "NOT Star Control" Star Control game, unless Brad made an even bigger mistake and used content from the previous games. But it will mean them having to stop selling the previous games on Steam, and pay them any royalties they earned.
The worst part is Brad is STILL LETTING HIS MOUTH DO THE THINKING, even in a legal action. He's accusing the creators of the Star Control universe of not creating the Star Control universe.
This shouldn't prevent them from shipping their "NOT Star Control" Star Control game, unless Brad made an even bigger mistake and used content from the previous games. But it will mean them having to stop selling the previous games on Steam, and pay them any royalties they earned.
The worst part is Brad is STILL LETTING HIS MOUTH DO THE THINKING, even in a legal action. He's accusing the creators of the Star Control universe of not creating the Star Control universe.
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D
Deleted member 83233
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Stardock can go fuck themselves. I hope they seriously lose this. It's ridiculous. I understand trying to protect rights that you feel you purchased, but to go and try to debase the original artists that created the series... No. Maybe they have to in order to protect what they bought, but that's still in bad taste. They should have just taken the Star Control name off of their game, (as it doesn't have much to do with the series anyway other than similar play style) and conceded gracefully. If we don't see the real sequel because of this, I will be pretty pissed.
defaultluser
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Just be careful with that kind of hope. In the hands of someone like Wardell, it could be worse than Star Control 3
D
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I wasn't expecting it to be SC2 class, but I was hoping it would at least be better than SC3, and just something extra to play in that style. Now I don't really have an interest in it. I'm usually the first to speak out when people make decisions to buy something based on the actions of its creators, but when it directly impacts something else that I want to see more, I kind of take that stance as well. Stardock being douches alone wouldn't make me jump. It's the fact that it's having an effect on Toys for Bob that's making me reconsider.
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Deleted member 83233
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Well, this is out in a day and a half. I have very mixed feelings about it. I'm really chomping to get my hands on it, but I'm also a little disappointed about all the needless litigation (really from both sides) between Stardock and F&P/TfB. I like that the integrated some of my favorite alien species into this game, and some of it looks pretty amazing I have to admit. I was really hoping that this game and the sequel to SC2 could peacefully coexist. That looks less and less likely all the time though.
As someone that's starved for more Star Control (provided it has nothing to do with SC3
) I really want to jump on this game. I may do it provided some positive reviews or community feedback. The Beta testers seem to like it though, so that's a pretty good sign.
Well, I guess I'll make the decision over the next few days. I'm definitely leaning toward grabbing it. It's just kind of a sad situation all around.
As someone that's starved for more Star Control (provided it has nothing to do with SC3
) I really want to jump on this game. I may do it provided some positive reviews or community feedback. The Beta testers seem to like it though, so that's a pretty good sign. Well, I guess I'll make the decision over the next few days. I'm definitely leaning toward grabbing it. It's just kind of a sad situation all around.
Island Dog
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I'm a bit over 5 hours into this game, and so far, it's been quite good; just about what I expected.
My initial impressions below:
Interesting note: the current Metascore for this game is 77, with 6 reviews @ 90 or better, and 2 reviews under 70 (so, somewhat divisive game).
Metacritic User Score is 8.1, with 8 positive/2 negative. The user reviews are very positive, though.
My initial impressions below:
Interesting note: the current Metascore for this game is 77, with 6 reviews @ 90 or better, and 2 reviews under 70 (so, somewhat divisive game).
Metacritic User Score is 8.1, with 8 positive/2 negative. The user reviews are very positive, though.
I've gone though all the stuff on reddit/UQM/Star Control forums, and (without going into too much detail/getting into silly Internet flame wars) from what I have seen, Brad & Stardock are "pretty much" on the right side of things. A trademark is a really, really big deal.
Another thing I learned from my line of work: you need specialized, well-regarded IP lawyers to really get into the "nitty-gritty" of things, not random YouTube lawyers, for explanations (the law profession covers a TON of areas, and a good lawyer in one field can easily, very easily, misinterpret/misunderstand what a good lawyer from another field is saying, especially when it's an area which only one of the two lawyers I just mentioned specialize in -- I have personally seen this happen many times).
IceDigger
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Suprised you guys have not played Starflight yet for the Sega Genesis.
Very similar.
Very similar.
Heh, I knew Starflight was gonna get mentioned in this thread at some point!
Truth is, without early games like Starflight, this entire genre of space exploration/adventure/combat (as one distinct category) wouldn't exist.
Note: the PC game (which is what I'm familiar with) came out in 1986 -- Sega Genesis was 1991.
Star Control 2 (the best-known of the previous Star Control games) came out in 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starflight
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Deleted member 83233
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I’ve actually backed off slightly from when I posted that. I really feel bad for the position that TfB find themselves in. However, the more I’ve read from Brad, the more his angle seems somewhat more reasonable. Not 100% correct according to my own point view, but my pov doesn’t matter much anyway. Just a fan of the original games and their creators (as far back as Archon really).
I just wish the whole thing turned out the way it should have on all sides.
For sure -- the ideal "win-win" would've been for SCO and Ghosts of the Precursors to be released "happily ever after" -- I always wanted to see what the "real" Star Control 3 was like, ever since I played the daylights out of Star Control 2 back in elementary and middle school.
That having been said, I've having a blast playing Origins.
More than just a big deal, trademark is a use it or lose it and a defend it or lose it thing. If you trademark something and never make use of the mark, it'll lapse. Not only that, if you make use of a mark, but ignore others who infringe on it or confuse it, you can lose the mark as well. Makes it real different from a lot of IP.
Like with copyright you can let someone pirate your shit all day and do nothing, and then later decide to start enforcing it and that's fine. You never lose the copyright, you have it for your entire life (and your estate gets it for 70 years after that). You sell the work, not sell it, change how you do things, whatever you still retain the copyright.
Not so with trademark. You defend it or you risk losing it which is why companies get real aggressive even with things that might seem trivial. If they don't, they risk their mark being diluted and then losing it in the long run. A good example is a Thermos. That was a trademark name, from the company of the same name, for a vacuum flask. However it became generic, they lost the mark, now everyone can refer to their stuff as a thermos.
Another example is the new Wasteland games (2 and the in development 3). Wasteland was published by Electronic Arts way back in the day. When Interplay was looking at making a sequel, EA wasn't interested in licensing the rights so a game of a similar idea, but different style (Fallout) was the result. However EA just sat on Wasteland, it didn't sell it or market it or use the IP. So while they own the copyright on the title itself, the trademark lapsed and Brian Fargo, one of the creators of the original Wasteland, registered it and was able to make a second one. Also of note in that situation, relevant to this one, Fallout was never marketed as "the sequel to Wasteland" or anything like that. While it was a spiritual successor, they were careful not to create any confusion of the trademark, lets they get sued.
So trademark infringement isn't really something you can "just let go" even if it seems harmless or well intentioned.
D
Deleted member 83233
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I still haven't picked it up. This is good news, and the fact that it's you posting means I'll probably agree. Might need to grab it sooner than later!
It's a homecoming as far as I'm concerned. Pretty much everything I could have hoped for or envisioned for a current realization of Star Control.
NoOther
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I am not sure I would quite go with "OUTSTANDING", but it definitely felt like Star Control. It wasn't nearly as good as Star Control 2, but better than 3. Some of the balance in the ships felt off and wasn't necessarily big on the power up items in combat. The resource gathering was a bit annoying, but if you find the right spots, you can get all you need quickly. The main ship upgrades were decent, but didn't like the limited configurations, felt they could have made it a little more flexible. Also the story felt like it was a bit too straight forward, not enough options to go different ways. Picking different dialogue options didn't really seem to hurt you at all.
But for all those quirks and a few other ones, I still had fun playing it. I was not sorry about buying it.
D
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I'm not expecting a Toys for Bob experience, but if it falls solidly between these two opinions, I will be very happy with it. I think I'm going to grab it while it's on sale.
The good news is, they've been continuously updating the game (since initial release), and many of the more negative aspects have been solved/rectified. They've also been adding more features/revisions on a very regular basis -- this tells me that they're taking the input from the community and putting it in-game. I'm (very pleasantly) surprised to see that. Time to start up a new run! (especially in light of the new DLC stuff coming out soon)
NoOther
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So you are saying they fixed all the things I listed in my statement? Odd, they all seemed to still be in there last time I played a little over a week ago... The things I listed were core design features of the game.
horrorshow
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.... wai wai wait....
THIS IS GOOD???
THIS IS GOOD???
That tends to be the Stardock style. Their games are not always masterpieces on release, but they seem to continue on them for a long time. Like Galactic Civilizations 3. It came out May of 2015 and just today there was another big update. They are for sure a company that if they make a game you think you'd like, but ti looks like bugs/issues are a deal breaker, well check back in a few months, they may well be resolved. They eventually put their stuff to rest, but they work on it for a good bit. Even Elemental War of Magic, which was a disaster, they did quite a few patches for.
I don't want to overhype anything. It's far from perfect but I really do feel like overall it's mission accomplished on giving us a very solid new Star Control game at long last and I'm very happy about that. I haven't had any technical issues to speak of as of yet.
Blade-Runner
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Craziness
I'll never understand why some creators get like this. They think that because they made something, they own it and anything like it forever no matter what. Same kind of shit as the PUBG dude who thinks that his generic-ass Battle Royale game means he owns the concept and nobody can ever make anything at all like it.
Depending on how hard Stardock goes in response, this could end really badly for these guys. You make DMCA complaints under penalty of perjury and there is no way they aren't aware they are doing this one in bad faith. Normally when that happens with dumbass companies and Youtube, nothing goes on since the Youtuber hasn't the money nor interest is hitting back. However Stardock has the resources to take them to court, if they wish, and might just be mad enough to do it.
At this point, I'm hoping they do. Unless there is something major that hasn't been made public (which is possible but I don't find hugely likely) SD was very up front in their attempts to deal with this and the creators were just dicks about it. Seems like they need to get slapped around a little since they just won't quit.
Armenius
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Seems like the two guys have a case. Stardock made a few big mistakes in acquiring the IP that are going to bite them in the ass.
D
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Yeah, this is a bit more complex than it would appear on the surface. There were stipulations about various character designs, and other design elements in the deal, as well as provisions for both games to be made, and somehow these ended up overlapping in ways which both parties were unhappy with. As usual with IP / Trademarks, etc. you have to protect them to keep them, so I'm sure the DMCA is a last ditch effort to do that for F&P. I think both groups could have come to a mutually beneficial arrangement earlier on though. I think both sides were way too quick to start talking about litigation. I think F&P could have been a bit more flexible, and I think Stardock could have had a bit more respect for the creators. I see errors on both sides of this. Now all that's left is court it would seem. Sad, but I can't really put full blame on either side. They both did things that I don't personally agree with. But then, my opinion matters 0% in this anyway.