Is Mozilla Supporting Antifa?

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sirsad said:
wtf! That's straight communism right there. Does the far left even understand the downsides of communism and how the government must have a hierarchy and extreme oppression to survive? Russia and China are perfect examples.
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Although they said shit about this when it looked like Soviets might usher in the Global Red Era, the latest marketing includes 'anarchism' which is technically in Marxist quasi-doctrine. But usually a totalitarian transition state is acknowledged as necessary for redistribution of wealth. There is no mechanism to guarantee the end of the "transition state". You're just suppose to trust people given absolute power and the kind of people that attracted to just give it up. Hasn't happened so far, but don't let that deter you? :(
 
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False equivalency. Antifa is a matter of "concern" for the government as their campaign against Nazi and KKK nuts grows more active, no surprise there.

White nationalist groups, on the other hand, are considered a threat in the same vein of ISIS by the government, a true violent extremist threat to our nation.

http://www.newsweek.com/white-nationalism-much-threat-us-isis-fbis-open-investigations-show-672623

government data obtained by The Hill suggests the number of white supremacist attacks compared to those from radical Islamist groups was as many as two to one.
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But of course, these nuts are local so some people hesitate to give them the same level of scrutiny.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...lamist-extremists_us_594c46e4e4b0da2c731a84df

201 terrorist incidents on U.S. soil from January 2008 to the end of 2016. The database shows 115 cases by right-wing extremists ― from white supremacists to militias to “sovereign citizens” ― compared to 63 cases by Islamist extremists. Incidents from left-wing extremists, which include ecoterrorists and animal rights militants, were comparatively rare, with 19 incidents.
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So same shit different asscheek.
Attacks by right-wing extremists were also more often deadly, with nearly a third of right-wing extremist incidents resulting in deaths compared with 13 percent of Islamist extremist cases resulting in deaths. However, the sheer number of people killed by Islamist extremists ― a total of 90 people killed ― was higher than the death toll at the hands of right-wing extremists ― 79 people killed
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Antifa is nothing compared to the real problem of local terrorists that we're facing recently.
 
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Antifa are terrorists but the white nationalists in Charlottesville are just good old fashioned red blooded American patriots right?
 
jpm100 said:
Although they said shit about this when it looked like Soviets might usher in the Global Red Era, the latest marketing includes 'anarchism' which is technically in Marxist quasi-doctrine. But usually a totalitarian transition state is acknowledged as necessary for redistribution of wealth. There is no mechanism to guarantee the end of the "transition state". You're just suppose to trust people given absolute power and the kind of people that attracted to just give it up. Hasn't happened so far, but don't let that deter you? :(
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"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." -Thomas Jefferson
 
sirsad said:
Evil statues of the left are ok!
wtf! That's straight communism right there. Does the far left even understand the downsides of communism and how the government must have a hierarchy and extreme oppression to survive? Russia and China are perfect examples.
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Eh? Neither Russia nor China have ever been a perfect example of communism. Both were autocratic socialist states.
 
aaronspink said:
Eh? Neither Russia nor China have ever been a perfect example of communism. Both were autocratic socialist states.
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Because the system doesn't work? If everyone gets the same pay, no one works. Then you force people to work. Then people fight over the easy jobs. Hence oppression that the government devolves into.
 
aaronspink said:
Eh? Neither Russia nor China have ever been a perfect example of communism. Both were autocratic socialist states.
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There is no such thing as "perfect". China and Soviet Russia demonstrate the reality of communism.
 
My main beef with Mozilla is the fact that it still relies on Adobe Flash for some sites.
And the fact that they're more focused on privacy than, say Chrome, is a perk for me. As an end user, those are more important to me, than their politics, because I don't subsidize them.
 
It's just funny to hear people talk about Antifa as an organization.

It isn't.

Anyone who doesn't like what they see as fascism can call themselves Antifa at any moment, and do. People who call themselves Antifa have all kinds of motives, ideologies and end goals, some of them peaceful defense only, others your classic protest troublemaker.

There is no Antifa organization. It's just a bunch of individual people collectively using the name.

Some of them are heroes, like those who formed a phalanx between clergy and white supremacists in Charlottesville, and.possibly saved their lives.

Others are bloody morons who just want to fight.

But I'll say it again. There is no Antifa group. Anyone who is feeling a little opposed to fascism on any given day can and do call themselves Antifa. It's not an organization.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
It's just funny to hear people talk about Antifa as an organization.

It isn't.

Anyone who doesn't like what they see as fascism can call themselves Antifa at any moment, and do. People who call themselves Antifa have all kinds of motives, ideologies and end goals, some of them peaceful defense only, others your classic protest troublemaker.

There is no Antifa organization. It's just a bunch of individual people collectively using the name.

Some of them are heroes, like those who formed a phalanx between clergy and white supremacists in Charlottesville, and.possibly saved their lives.

Others are bloody morons who just want to fight.

But I'll say it again. There is no Antifa group. Anyone who is feeling a little opposed to fascism on any given day can and do call themselves Antifa. It's not an organization.
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Antifa isn't a monolithic organization but what is the difference between talking about an organization and talking about "a bunch of individual people collecting using the name"? lol.
 
gabhpr said:
The civil rights movement happened because of violence. Malcon X and MLK were both assassinated by the same people butt hurt over nfl protests and the people who elected trump
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So a black member of the nation of islam that killed malcolm x is the same type of person who is butt hurt over the nfl protests? I can't really say anything else because you are
gabhpr said:
The civil rights movement happened because of violence. Malcon X and MLK were both assassinated by the same people butt hurt over nfl protests and the people who elected trump
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So black radical members of the nation of islam, and a man the King's believed disn't kill Martin are butt hurt of nfl protests? You really sound salty trying to lump up everyone who voted for Trump.
 
aaronspink said:
This is literally a dumb story that we are all dumber for having seen.

Mozilla supports Antifa as much as Google, Facebook, and/or Twitter support ISIS. RiseUp provides secure communication services to a large number of organizations world wide.
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As much as Cloudflare supports the Daily Stormer?
 
5150Joker said:
Antifa are terrorists but the white nationalists in Charlottesville are just good old fashioned red blooded American patriots right?
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If there was a multi billion dollar silicon valley corporation behind kkk, they would be shit down post haste.
That is also what is needed for AntiFa and communists.

When they fired one of the co-creators and founders when an IRS agent illegally leaked his contribution of $1000 to a conservative family foundation, everyone lost thier shit and the IRS leaker was never prosecuted.
The company fired him in liberal appeasement.

Spot where the company supports a communist terrorist organization and nobody bats an eye.
 
Jadawin said:
Oh yes, the Antifa is the problem. Right.
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No one likes white supremacists but
I can't believe people look the other way when communist anarchists are attacking free speech and physically assaulting people.
Either way is bad.
We all know what KKK is and how bad they are.

What everyone who ignores AntiFa is not going to tell you is, it's liberal angst.
Clutching to their ideology and hope of a Che Gruevara run government where no one works yet somehow have money.
Idiots on both sides.
No free lunches. We all have to work and we all have to get along.
 
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lilbabycat said:
Sure is a lot of Antifa defense in here. And not even from the the usual suspects. You west coast folks live in another reality.
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Less Antifa defense and more BS suppression. As in this story is complete BS. And there is literally nothing illegal in providing an email service that is used by some Antifa members (who are literally under zero terrorist sanctions or restrictions), esp when things like gmail, twitter, et al are routinely used by internationally recognized and sanctioned terrorists organizations and individuals.
 
griff30 said:
No one likes white supremacists but
I can't believe people look the other way when communist anarchists are attacking free speech and physically assaulting people.
Either way is bad.
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The US has a long and proud history of looking the other way when it comes to punching Nazis and Nazi sympathizers dating back to the 1930's. You literally had state and federal judges guaranteeing safe passage to Mafia members who were breaking up nazi groups including sharing law enforcement intel with them. Hell, the intelligence services literally released known murders from prison to beat up and murder nazis in the US. The whole US ship building industry was protected by the mafia under contract and the mafia was also hired and paid to prevent nazi smuggling into the US.

Punching Nazis is literally as American as apple pie. The US tends to look the other way regardless of who is doing it or how they are doing it.
 
aaronspink said:
Punching Nazis is literally as American as apple pie. The US tends to look the other way regardless of who is doing it or how they are doing it.
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I have no problem with not liking Nazi. Who would like them?

The problems that I have is:
1 Physically attacking them and
2. The bitter liberals who define anything other than their thought pattern as "Nazi" or white supremacists.

Southern Poverty Law stated there are roughly 5,000 to 8,000 of them in the USA. That equates to 0.00003% of our population....
Want to know where there are far, far more Nazis?
Mexico and most of South America.
Fact.
 
griff30 said:
No one likes white supremacists but
I can't believe people look the other way when communist anarchists are attacking free speech and physically assaulting people.
Either way is bad.
We all know what KKK is and how bad they are.

What everyone who ignores AntiFa is not going to tell you is, it's liberal angst.
Clutching to their ideology and hope of a Che Gruevara run government where no one works yet somehow have money.
Idiots on both sides.
No free lunches. We all have to work and we all have to get along.
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You’re trying to create a false equivalency between antifa and the KKK on a moral level which is ridiculous. Antifa, good or bad, fight against social injustice whereas the KKK and other White supremacists advocate violence against people for not being white.

Besides we have a racist in the White House who had Steve Bannon on his side so Antifa isn’t bad at all in comparison. When you have overt racists pushing and pushing, you will get pushed back.
 
5150Joker said:
You’re trying to create a false equivalency between antifa and the KKK on a moral level which is ridiculous. Antifa, good or bad, fight against social injustice whereas the KKK and other White supremacists advocate violence against people for not being white.

Besides we have a racist in the White House who had Steve Bannon on his side so Antifa isn’t bad at all in comparison. When you have overt racists pushing and pushing, you will get pushed back.
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You're a Bitter liberal
Gotcha.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
It's just funny to hear people talk about Antifa as an organization.

It isn't.

Anyone who doesn't like what they see as fascism can call themselves Antifa at any moment, and do. People who call themselves Antifa have all kinds of motives, ideologies and end goals, some of them peaceful defense only, others your classic protest troublemaker.

There is no Antifa organization. It's just a bunch of individual people collectively using the name.

Some of them are heroes, like those who formed a phalanx between clergy and white supremacists in Charlottesville, and.possibly saved their lives.

Others are bloody morons who just want to fight.

But I'll say it again. There is no Antifa group. Anyone who is feeling a little opposed to fascism on any given day can and do call themselves Antifa. It's not an organization.
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so what your saying is anyone who feels a little apposed to fascism calls themselves fascist , got it.
 
I really REALLY wanted to go back to firefox but i just can't now. I wouldn't care if riseup provided communications to everyone etc. etc. but when they specifically say they are fighting the system of economics that has the most freedom and have brought the most people out of poverty in history and improved everyones lives i just can't support it.
 
Master_shake_ said:
Mozilla's board is full of SJW punks.

you can tell because they fired their Co-founder because he dared to donate money to a pro women-man marriage proposition.

obviously he was not part of the hive mind and had to go.
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Hahahaha, you mean the anti-gay proposition defining marriage as ONLY between a man and woman that was ruled unconstitutional? See, it's people like you that actually create these problems, with your deliberate attempt to masquerade what you're really after with such pious double speak . This is why righties get written off automatically and people tend to side with the SJW crowd by default, because instead of just being upfront about what you really want you hide behind such bullshit. "Pro women-man marriage" rofl, get the fuck out of here.
 
nysmo said:
Hahahaha, you mean the anti-gay proposition defining marriage as ONLY between a man and woman that was ruled unconstitutional? See, it's people like you that actually create these problems, with your deliberate attempt to masquerade what you're really after with such pious double speak . This is why righties get written off automatically and people tend to side with the SJW crowd by default, because instead of just being upfront about what you really want you hide behind such bullshit. "Pro women-man marriage" rofl, get the fuck out of here.
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This might be side stepping so i'm not sure i should reply so if i shouldn't someone just tell me to shut up etc. That being ruled unconstitutional by the 9th circuit was is BS. I support gay marriage (specifically government not being involved in marriage in any way shape or form, as i have before gay marriage was even a thing), but the 9th circuits decision was fucking lunacy. It was unconstitutional on the grounds that you can't give someone something and then take it away is absolutely fucking terrible and I do not understand how that was allowed to stand as a decision. It literally says you can' t fix a mistake. If it was going to be declared unconstitutional it should of been under the equal protection clause (as it was earlier), although i would argue that in practice there is no such thing as i can point to things that currently exist that don't provide equal protection under the law and no one bats an eye. But in summation the 9th circuit should be disbanded and recreated they are just awful.
 
Romale23 said:
This might be side stepping so i'm not sure i should reply so if i shouldn't someone just tell me to shut up etc. That being ruled unconstitutional by the 9th circuit was is BS. I support gay marriage (specifically government not being involved in marriage in any way shape or form, as i have before gay marriage was even a thing), but the 9th circuits decision was fucking lunacy. It was unconstitutional on the grounds that you can't give someone something and then take it away is absolutely fucking terrible and I do not understand how that was allowed to stand as a decision. It literally says you can' t fix a mistake. If it was going to be declared unconstitutional it should of been under the equal protection clause (as it was earlier), although i would argue that in practice there is no such thing as i can point to things that currently exist that don't provide equal protection under the law and no one bats an eye. But in summation the 9th circuit should be disbanded and recreated they are just awful.
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I mean I dont care how something is overturned, when you have such an abominably discriminatory practice it needs to just be removed asap. The only reason I brought it up was because it was the most liked comment in this thread and reflects upon typical bigoted misdirection. I'm sure in the 50's nobody was anti-black, they were just "pro white"
 
nysmo said:
I mean I dont care how something is overturned, when you have such an abominably discriminatory practice it needs to just be removed asap. The only reason I brought it up was because it was the most liked comment in this thread and reflects upon typical bigoted misdirection. I'm sure in the 50's nobody was anti-black, they were just "pro white"
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that is a problem, your saying the ends justify the means, which have been used to justify some of the greatest injustices in history. At some point doing the wrong thing for the right reasons will come back to haunt you.
 
nysmo said:
I mean I dont care how something is overturned, when you have such an abominably discriminatory practice it needs to just be removed asap. The only reason I brought it up was because it was the most liked comment in this thread and reflects upon typical bigoted misdirection. I'm sure in the 50's nobody was anti-black, they were just "pro white"
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separate entry for the second part, i get why you brought it up and even though i'm so far right i consider every single politician with an R next to their name to be a communist, i agree with your summation and its impact and am not a fan of it.
 
BlueFireIce said:
Antifa....For me has nothing to do with it, when I first saw this it was RiseUp I had an issue with, as their mission statement goes on to say:

"The Riseup Collective is an autonomous body based in Seattle with collective members world wide. Our purpose is to aid in the creation of a free society, a world with freedom from want and freedom of expression, a world without oppression or hierarchy, where power is shared equally. We do this by providing communication and computer resources to allies engaged in struggles against capitalism and other forms of oppression."

If you read that and the rest of the page, they are straight up communist. No thanks.
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I cant get to their webpage now for some reason. The Wikipedia entry on them though has a different slogan/wording, which is...odd.

"Its mission is to support liberatory social change via fighting social control and mass surveillance through distribution of secure tools. It lists its purpose as "... aid[ing] in the creation of a free society, a world with freedom from want and freedom of expression, a world without oppression or hierarchy, where power is shared equally."[2]"
 
Monkey God said:
I cant get to their webpage now for some reason. The Wikipedia entry on them though has a different slogan/wording, which is...odd.

"Its mission is to support liberatory social change via fighting social control and mass surveillance through distribution of secure tools. It lists its purpose as "... aid[ing] in the creation of a free society, a world with freedom from want and freedom of expression, a world without oppression or hierarchy, where power is shared equally."[2]"
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So they cut out the last and most important part.
 
Poor sources and poor citations , plus a poor story . Even with the current administration, "Antifa" is not defined by the US Gov't as a terrorist organization. "Antifa" isn't even a single organization, no more than "BLM" or for that matter the "Alt Right".

I've been aware of RiseUp for quite some time and they're far from evil - they offer various online services for activists and those who want to get away from corporate/gov't spying ideologically. They aren't some secret cult - I can get to their page right now and people can sign up for an account without some secret handshake or anything like that. The "hardest" thing to get is an invite code, but these aren't that difficult to find. There are invite codes that are freely available online - this is a relatively small site offering a lot of services, so much like Gmail during their early years or private Torrent sites, invite codes help manage growth and confer other benefits. Don't want to wait for an invite code? Hell, you can email them with a polite request (or you could at one point) and it would likely be granted

Their tagline on their homepage is " Riseup provides online communication tools for people and groups working on liberatory social change. We are a project to create democratic alternatives and practice self-determination by controlling our own secure means of communications." Now, the part that it seems's a few people are getting their panties in a bunch about is on their "About Us" page - I'll list the entire part of it for clarity...

"
The Riseup Collective is an autonomous body based in Seattle with collective members world wide. Our purpose is to aid in the creation of a free society, a world with freedom from want and freedom of expression, a world without oppression or hierarchy, where power is shared equally. We do this by providing communication and computer resources to allies engaged in struggles against capitalism and other forms of oppression.

  • We value, support, and engage in struggles for human liberation, the ethical treatment of animals, and ecological sustainability. We join in the fight for freedom and the self-determination of all oppressed groups. We oppose all forms of prejudice, authoritarianism, and vanguardism.
  • We organize on the basis of autonomy, mutual aid, resource sharing, participatory knowledge, social advocacy, anti-oppression work, community creation, and secure communication.
  • We work to create revolution and a free society in the here and now by building alternative communication infrastructure designed to oppose and replace the dominant system.
  • We promote social ownership and democratic control over information, ideas, technology, and the means of communication.
  • We empower organizations and individuals to use technology in struggles for liberation. We work to support each other in overcoming the systemic oppression embedded in the use and development of technology.
"

I think the vast majority of [H]ard users would agree to those bullet points more or less (with some notable exceptions), though I anticipate differing definitions of exact terms. Regarding capitalism (which is a very small point of the entire previous quote mind you) , I really hope that nobody is so irrational as to suggest that capitalism hasn't and isn't responsible for oppression? I could give many examples in the present and historically, worldwide. For instance, many of the benefits even the most ardent conservatives here support and enjoy such as weekends and the ability to not be paid in "scrip" from the company store, were hard fought in the last century against lassiez faire capitalism; physical violence and death were not uncommon against activists (check out the Ludlow Mine Massacre, for instance) Does this mean that all elements of Capitalism are by nature oppressive? No not necessarily, but there are many many forms and elements of it that are leading to oppression of the public good for maximizing profit.

In addition, any [H]ard technology enthusiast should be very wary of ANYONE, left or right, calling for Internet services to be culpable for the ideals of those who use them or worse, to filter/exclude because of bias. From Google and Twitter/Facebook to especially secure providers like RiseUp, ProtonMail etc... nearly all of them have a clause in their TOS that says you'll be banned for using the service to advocate/plan/bring harm to others. That's fine. However, as of late there has been pressure (some of it by the current administration making things much worse) to claim that entities should be policing viewpoints, as well as suggesting that a whole "Neutral site" is "bad" because "bad people or content" was allowed to exist there. From Corporate and government entities alike, this is a very dangerous precedent to set and everyone should be very concerned.


Edit - hit post too early. Will be editing.
 
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I am all about open, free communication and internet protections for anonymity so reporters and whistle blowers can do their thing, but I can't support an org whose official purpose is to destroy capitalism. I am more than happy to see someone come up with a better system and try it out on their own dime and time, but I am not OK with burning our civilization down or switching over to communism simply because its not perfect. Its less flawed than any of the other systems we've tried.
 
Monkey God said:
I am all about open, free communication and internet protections for anonymity so reporters and whistle blowers can do their thing, but I can't support an org whose official purpose is to destroy capitalism. I am more than happy to see someone come up with a better system and try it out on their own dime and time, but I am not OK with burning our civilization down or switching over to communism simply because its not perfect. Its less flawed than any of the other systems we've tried.
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Just out of curiosity, why do you think that they're talking about burning down the entire system? For that matter, if you read the quotation it talks about oppression and capitalism - so if there are times when capitalism or elements are not oppressing people, then all is well. ? 99% of the entire quote doesn't even mention capitalism, so the idea that they want to "destroy civilization", much less all forms of capitalism, seems alarmist and untrue. By human development and happiness index, the most successful nations have economic systems that are hybrids where there are strong protections against the negatives of capitalism without giving up elements like private ownership or markets entirely. Even our current system in the US is a hybrid , though we lack the proper balance between privatized profit and the public good, so it would not require burning civilization to the ground to change.

Treating capitalism as some sort of exalted virtue or even "best we've got, don't question it" isn't helpful. As in my prior post, if people in the past did not fight and sometimes give their lives in the fight against the ills of capitalism, your life would be much different in a negative way. The fight isn't over either with elements such as regulatory capture and the new problems of globalism just to name a few.
 
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Xaeos said:
Treating capitalism as some sort of exalted virtue or even "best we've got, don't question it" isn't helpful.
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I never said that so I am not going to bother responding/defending something I didn't say. Re-read what I posted.
 
Xaeos said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that they're talking about burning down the entire system? For that matter, if you read the quotation it talks about oppression and capitalism - so if there are times when capitalism or elements are not oppressing people, then all is well. ? 99% of the entire quote doesn't even mention capitalism, so the idea that they want to "destroy civilization", much less all forms of capitalism, seems alarmist and untrue. By human development and happiness index, the most successful nations have economic systems that are hybrids where there are strong protections against the negatives of capitalism without giving up elements like private ownership or markets entirely. Even our current system in the US is a hybrid , though we lack the proper balance between privatized profit and the public good, so it would not require burning civilization to the ground to change.

Treating capitalism as some sort of exalted virtue or even "best we've got, don't question it" isn't helpful. As in my prior post, if people in the past did not fight and sometimes give their lives in the fight against the ills of capitalism, your life would be much different in a negative way. The fight isn't over either with elements such as regulatory capture and the new problems of globalism just to name a few.
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Best we've seen in Action.

And if we haven't tried Communism, by that standard we never really tried Capitalism. We only moved significantly closer in that direction around 1600's. So by what we know it is the Best we've seen mainly because it does not require a strong central authority. It doesn't inherently prevent it, which is happening now depending if you consider free markets part of Capitalism. Markets are heavily manipulated by the Government usually for the benefit of their friends. It's a contraction of authority. Other systems require it though at some point. So it's the worst of what is happening now but with famine.
 
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