yeah they had the 7600k at 175 yesterday, they are gonna firesale them so they don't get stuck with stock after launch.
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Intel's 8th Generation Core Family - Coffee Lake (LGA 1151, 6C/12T)
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yeah they had the 7600k at 175 yesterday, they are gonna firesale them so they don't get stuck with stock after launch.
SomeGuy133
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https://videocardz.com/73061/yet-another-core-i7-8700k-i5-8600k-review-posted-ahead-of-launch
so is lab501 reliable? My question is wasnt someone claiming single thread doesn't matter in gaming or something stupid and i correctly pointed out how single thread is important for minimum framerate and that makes the biggest difference in quality of experience with removing stutters and smoothness issues.
in far cry primal 7700K and 8700K (all the CPUs with great single thread) are the only ones near 100FPS while AMD is at 68 lol. That is ~40% different hahahahahahaha
far cry primal 100v68
GTA5 52v31 lawls
doom 137vs83
sleeping dogs 113v75
is this place reliable? because that is huge differences and those are even well designed games...not even counting the 10,000's of single threaded or poorly optimized games hahaha
That is why HEDT is trash for gaming and those high clocked quads or now finally 6 cores are awesome
Also lab501 or whatever has the shittiest charts i have ever seen. I made better ones in middle school in the 90s
EDIT: those differences are honestly much larger than i would have expected. I was assuming maybe 30% but this is way worse lol. Is it really accurate because those scores are awful.
so is lab501 reliable? My question is wasnt someone claiming single thread doesn't matter in gaming or something stupid and i correctly pointed out how single thread is important for minimum framerate and that makes the biggest difference in quality of experience with removing stutters and smoothness issues.
in far cry primal 7700K and 8700K (all the CPUs with great single thread) are the only ones near 100FPS while AMD is at 68 lol. That is ~40% different hahahahahahaha
far cry primal 100v68
GTA5 52v31 lawls
doom 137vs83
sleeping dogs 113v75
is this place reliable? because that is huge differences and those are even well designed games...not even counting the 10,000's of single threaded or poorly optimized games hahaha
That is why HEDT is trash for gaming and those high clocked quads or now finally 6 cores are awesome
Also lab501 or whatever has the shittiest charts i have ever seen. I made better ones in middle school in the 90s
EDIT: those differences are honestly much larger than i would have expected. I was assuming maybe 30% but this is way worse lol. Is it really accurate because those scores are awful.
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TaintedSquirrel
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There are some games that don't play nicely with Ryzen.
Not sure how reliable that site is, though.
Not sure how reliable that site is, though.
games like iracing can't scale. Hell even Adobe can't scale efficiently. Throw more clocks at it
Hagrid
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Then I guess the programmers need to get to making things more core optimized and aware.
Hagrid
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What fairly new games are single threaded?https://videocardz.com/73061/yet-another-core-i7-8700k-i5-8600k-review-posted-ahead-of-launch
so is lab501 reliable? My question is wasnt someone claiming single thread doesn't matter in gaming or something stupid and i correctly pointed out how single thread is important for minimum framerate and that makes the biggest difference in quality of experience with removing stutters and smoothness issues.
in far cry primal 7700K and 8700K (all the CPUs with great single thread) are the only ones near 100FPS while AMD is at 68 lol. That is ~40% different hahahahahahaha
far cry primal 100v68
GTA5 52v31 lawls
doom 137vs83
sleeping dogs 113v75
is this place reliable? because that is huge differences and those are even well designed games...not even counting the 10,000's of single threaded or poorly optimized games hahaha
That is why HEDT is trash for gaming and those high clocked quads or now finally 6 cores are awesome
Also lab501 or whatever has the shittiest charts i have ever seen. I made better ones in middle school in the 90s
EDIT: those differences are honestly much larger than i would have expected. I was assuming maybe 30% but this is way worse lol. Is it really accurate because those scores are awful.
TaintedSquirrel
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All I need to see is a Watch Dogs 2 benchmark at 720p.
The way computers work and do so many things now, I really feel like 4 cores should kinda be mainstream.
Yeah super fast single thread would be great, but it’s just not possible, 6 core cpus will certainly get used if they are made.
I’m sure most of us here do stuff which would at least use 6 cores here and there, every day. Even if it’s just having a browser open with 15 tabs and 3 or 4 programs in the background.
SomeGuy133
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single thread limited. Those minimum frames is a key sign of single thread limited especially when more core lower clock CPUs have lower FPS
also most games in the past and many small dev games are single thread or like 1.5 core games. 1 primary thread that hogs one core but only a 2nd partial core is filled.
3 games i play most are single thread limited. war thunder, ns2, and planetside 2. I bet most MMOs are single thread/single thread limited
There are stuff cannot be parallelized. So simple like that.
SomeGuy133
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also paralleling is expensive and difficult. Its something only big budget games do.
ark is terribly single thread limited...especially the server client
DooKey
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My Ryzen system may have to go the way of the dodo. 8700K is looking fucking awesome.
According to iracing which is a car racing simulator,
physics and graphics have to the same thread to be able to keep proper timing. But sounds are on a second thread
Hagrid
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VR is higher resolution and doesn't seem to quite tax the CPU as much. VR will need more video power as it progress's, which will probably be the next version.(Rift and Vive)
Hagrid
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Same answer. They need to start programming for multiple cores. I would skip over a game if it ran like crap on just a single core. 21st century, 1st world problem, etc.
AMD even bother to make them its for laptop/mobile and when you have got intel's chip running at a much higher IPC advantage while having much better efficiency, AMD couldnt even bother to start with 8 core APU as it'll just overheat and 4c intel would beat 8c amd during that time, its simply a waste of money, which is something they dont have, i know you're not dumb man, over bluntly biased.
intel decided to spent billions on other stuff instead, give CPU stagnation rather than progression and innovation to bring new things out, 100% milk. having 10x the size bunch of other departments doesnt justify as they can easily spend them on cpu instead. they had no need to because theres no competition, which is milking and stagnation, yet they have to bring out something new otherwise no one would buy them, so they give little amounts of improvements as little as possible to milk their leads away.
its funny really, when you see a business do so well holds majority of market share but can't gain anymore, you'll always see them do these things. stagnation, milk, lay off employees or outsource, cutting left and right so they can still investor they are still earning more and more, bloody obvious! 10 YEARS of QUAD!!!!!
SomeGuy133
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have fun owning like 30 games and only having 30 games to play. I'll stick with the option to enjoy 10,000s of games and buy a good CPU.
Also have fun not using like any software ever made. OCR, PDF, Web browser, Win 7, audio editors, teracopy (enjoy having corrupted files), and endless other programs.....because they should just make them threaded and i wont use it because it isn't threaded.
Took a picture for the memory book on how stupid of a notion that is.Good luck not using a document scanners or any other peripheral.
Stuff that cannot be parallelized can run with other stuff that can't be parallelized
.The 8700K and 8600K looks like the only chips from Intel this newer generation looking to be worth while. Not sure it will be worth it to upgrade the 6700k from a system basically for gaming but Intel is looking nice on these processors.
SomeGuy133
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i plan on it if i got the money. These look like a solid upgrade.Stuff that cannot be parallelized can run with other stuff that can't be parallelized
The 8700K and 8600K looks like the only chips from Intel this newer generation looking to be worth while. Not sure it will be worth it to upgrade the 6700k from a system basically for gaming but Intel is looking nice on these processors.
Also the 18 core unlocked chips are god sends for people who can afford them. I cant wait to see reviews pushing a delidded 18 core CPU. IIRC thats not out yes right? I would never buy one even if i had the money because intel doesnt support ECC on them because they are dirty bastards.
I would go (assuming i had the money) 16/32 core unlocked threadripper instead due to the massive PCIe lanes and ECC support even though it isnt as good of a CPU.
assuming money was no object of course. If money was an object threadripper would still win. Money no object and Intel supported ECC? Intel 18 core lol. Instead my server has a meh 6 core TT
Hagrid
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I have more than 30 games. I guess the games I choose are just better.have fun owning like 30 games and only having 30 games to play. I'll stick with the option to enjoy 10,000s of games and buy a good CPU.
Also have fun not using like any software ever made. OCR, PDF, Web browser, Win 7, audio editors, teracopy (enjoy having corrupted files), and endless other programs.....because they should just make them threaded and i wont use it because it isn't threaded.
Good luck not using a document scanners or any other peripheral.
I have no idea what you are rambling about in the second part so I can`t reply.
Hagrid
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Yeah, I game at 4k so a nice TR machine would be nice. I am not sure why Intel went with double the price. If it was 1499 I bet it would be picked over the TR.
SomeGuy133
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not understanding how i was making a joke of your original statement is hilarious because i used your logic on programs. lol
Hagrid
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By comparing taxing games versus a browser? You got me!
SomeGuy133
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web browsing is single thread limited genius.
https://jlelliotton.blogspot.com/p/the-economic-value-of-rapid-response.html
read that to understand why the average notion is wrong and how it was proven wrong by IBM in 1982.
Single thread limited is single thread limited. Most of Win 7 and most programs are single thread limited so why buy a system that is 25-50% slower?
Your logic you said was you wouldnt play a game that was not multithreaded. So why would you use a program or OS that was not threaded? They should get with the times!!!!
Anyways, I just listed a small list of a huge amount of programs and areas of computers that are single thread limited and it hurts daily productivity a lot....go read IBMs study. Your thought process was proven wrong 35 years ago.
lol
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IdiotInCharge
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They should trade blows relative to FPU load; while the 7700k can handle more threads (8), it has only four FPUs, versus the 8600k's six. At least that's my working theory.
Shintai
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I have a feeling 2-3 years down the road, the excuses for why games isn't more "multicore" than now will just enter a new era. Intel got the blame first time, because blabla if just more cores. Next already seems to be "lazy developers". And I guess after that we get the blame back on consoles/zen for high latencies between core clusters.
In short, the problem is simply there is so much code that cant be done so the benefit is either zero, or it would even create negative scaling trying to attempt it.
Besides the games that offload server tasks on the client like BF series or some crazy RTS type game. Its just not easy to do it. games are in nature not parallel.
Coders have coded parallel drivers, programs and so on for over 30 years now.
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19205-01/819-5265/bjaem/index.html
Just to reference another big company.
In short, the problem is simply there is so much code that cant be done so the benefit is either zero, or it would even create negative scaling trying to attempt it.
Besides the games that offload server tasks on the client like BF series or some crazy RTS type game. Its just not easy to do it. games are in nature not parallel.
Coders have coded parallel drivers, programs and so on for over 30 years now.
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19205-01/819-5265/bjaem/index.html
Just to reference another big company.
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N4CR
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Shintai
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You only prove me right.
In your 2 examples it goes from 45 or so to 140 on the 1800X and 45 or so to 110 on the 1600X.
8700K for example would stay at around 45 for all cores if mapped on your first chart.
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N4CR
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You only prove me right.
In your 2 examples it goes from 45 or so to 140 on the 1800X and 45 or so to 110 on the 1600X.
8700K for example would stay at around 45 for all cores if mapped on your first chart.
Point was that if latency is such a bad thing, Ryzen is doing practically the same on 3200 intra-CCX as a 7900x is on all cores... In fact, it has far less latency in anything with under 7 threads vs 7900x, just like the 8700k.
Second point is when latency like that is an issue, the load cannot easily be multi-threaded anyway.
Latency in this day and age is really a pretty useless metric to bring up as a stab at AMD.
Are we really going to notice latency in the ns range (the rise time of an LED/Laser lol) when we are usually talking ms for e.g. gaming.. No.
Shintai
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Read it again and see what I actually state. Its just going to be bad excuses no matter who gets the blame. Intel, AMD, developers because games in by nature not designed for it.
And ns in latency is huge between clusters. Try calculate how many cycles that is. We already know its around 190 on consoles and being a problem there. The ping for the 1800X for example is something like 518 cycles.
There is a reason as well why TR got "gaming" mode.
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PvP-ForLife
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https://videocardz.com/73061/yet-another-core-i7-8700k-i5-8600k-review-posted-ahead-of-launch
so is lab501 reliable? My question is wasnt someone claiming single thread doesn't matter in gaming or something stupid and i correctly pointed out how single thread is important for minimum framerate and that makes the biggest difference in quality of experience with removing stutters and smoothness issues.
in far cry primal 7700K and 8700K (all the CPUs with great single thread) are the only ones near 100FPS while AMD is at 68 lol. That is ~40% different hahahahahahaha
far cry primal 100v68
GTA5 52v31 lawls
doom 137vs83
sleeping dogs 113v75
is this place reliable? because that is huge differences and those are even well designed games...not even counting the 10,000's of single threaded or poorly optimized games hahaha
That is why HEDT is trash for gaming and those high clocked quads or now finally 6 cores are awesome
Also lab501 or whatever has the shittiest charts i have ever seen. I made better ones in middle school in the 90s
EDIT: those differences are honestly much larger than i would have expected. I was assuming maybe 30% but this is way worse lol. Is it really accurate because those scores are awful.
lab501 is one of the most objective and professional sites you can find.
They've got a long standing history of high quality reviews and benchmark outputs.
And all those worker threads are controlled by a master thread.
Stuff that cannot be parallelized can run with other stuff that can't be parallelized
Sure, unless there is resource contention and then parallel stuffs run slower.
Even if there is no contention and each serial stuff runs at same speed than if was running alone, it means nothing in cases when serial stuff has to be executed so fas as possible. Why do you believe AMD invested hundred of millions on improving single thread performance with the new Zen core? Because serial stuff is not relevant anymore?
If serial stuff was irrelevant, AMD had simply ported Jaguar to 14LPP and give us 64 or 128 cores @2.5GHz for desktop, but AMD didn't make this, true?
CoffeeLake provides the best mixture of single thread and multithread performance. the top i7 is able to tie with the top R7 even when all cores are used, but the i7 run circles around the 1800X on the rest of workloads.
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Latency is a useless metric?
CPUs are instances of LCUs (Latency Compute Unit), whereas GPUs are instances of TCUs (Throughput Compute Units). Latency is a key metric for CPUs and that is why CPUs have a small number of wide cores, high clocks, large caches, deep OOOE logic...* Wide cores can extract more ILP reducing the execution latency of a sequence of code
* High clocks reduce latency by reducing the time spend on a cycle
* large caches reduce accesses to main memory, which reduces latency because main memory is slower
* deep OOOE logic reduce latency by processing a larger instruction window istead stalling the pipeline
* And so on
Latency is the reason why virtually any AMD fanboy is on forums recommending the use of 3200MHz or higher RAM for Zen. Latency is the reason why it is now common for most reviews to test RyZen and ThreadRipper always with memory overclocked. Overclocking RAM reduces the latency penalty of the Zen microarchitecture and improves performance of AMD chips. It reduces latency twice. First because faster RAM reduces the access latency to RAM, second because RAM clocks are tied to Infinity Fabric on AMD chips, and the latency of the interconnect is reduced as well, which alleviates the CCX-CCX penalty.
Latency is the reason why operative systems schedule dependent threads in the same CCX rather than on separate CCX. Having dependent threads executing in the same CCX eliminates the latency penalty associated to sending/receiving data between different CCX and improves performance of AMD chips.
Latency is the reason why ThreadRipper has a game mode and a creation mode, with the first mode disabling one of the dies to eliminate the huge die-die latency for improving performance of AMD chips on games.
EDIT: If you check the link given by Shintai in #2315, you can see how AMD mentions latency in its own docs about the gaming mode on ThreadRipper.
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Hagrid
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A little browser is single thread I never would have thought. A massive game is programmed to use 1, thats stupid.
Having multiple cores and multiple single threads, on each core, works good for small stuff.
Any other brain busters? Haha
