Government Gets Serious About STEM and Coding

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,601
I think that getting our kids here in the USA up to speed in terms of STEM (not STEAM) and coding is something we can all agree on. Am I right?!?!?!


The first daughter will travel to Detroit on Tuesday for the accompanying announcement from the private sector. On Wednesday, she will highlight STEM and computer education, visiting a public school alongside Microsoft President Brad Smith and nonprofit Code.org CEO Hadi Partovi.
 
My local schools are having record female enrollment in STEM. It was pretty easy. They dropped the A from the name STEAM without changing the classes included in reporting. Success!

/sigh.
 
It seems like it should be a pretty easy choice, STEM or McDonald's or Walmart until a robot takes your minimum wage job.

Of course, there is always a worse choice available -- like a B.A. in history from an expensive school -- so McDonald's with a half million in student loans.

Sadly, I've met a lot of smart and talented kids that just don't want to study or work too hard, and would rather end up making less money so that they have more time for STEAM. :rolleyes:
 
Should do like Russia (*gasp*) does and actually have programming and basic CS taught in middle school through high school.

But instead US schools are too busy trying to make sure all students are required to pander to little Bobby (or Bobbi depending what day it is) at every possible turn.
 
Off the top of my head I had this question.... When I was in school ~10 or so years ago, there was always that bullying stigma or whatever of "computer geeks" indicating that you're a loser if you sit on a computer all-day. Do other countries have this at all? Maybe that's why a lot of stupid people get deterred from STEM at an early age.
 
Yes, let's saturate the education system with people that have a mostly coaxed motivation. So when they all quit or find other work, 3-4 years in, these tech fields can go to foreign competitors or in-sourced labor.

Heaven forbid we use the old fashion method, companies actually paying better & treating people better. Better we coax/subsidize young people at tax payer expense to labor dump wages down.
 
Something we can *all* agree on? Nope. If I had my way, I would abolish the Department of Education, which was created by Jimmy Carter back when he was president. I don't like seeing the federal government part of primary education in any way whatsoever. That should be the states' purview only.
 
If this initiative encourages good design practices in addition to coding skill, then I am for it. But the last thing we need is more fleshy robot coders that have no idea if what they are creating is good or bad.

Another thing needed in K-12 is teaching kids about money and finance. Too many kids starting college don't really understand savings or debt or how interest really works. If they had a better idea of how money works, most would have more interest in the salary prospects of their degree choice.
 
Cyraxx said:
Off the top of my head I had this question.... When I was in school ~10 or so years ago, there was always that bullying stigma or whatever of "computer geeks" indicating that you're a loser if you sit on a computer all-day. Do other countries have this at all?
Click to expand...
they get deterred because it's hard.

I took calculus 2 semesters, and then said fuck math for the rest of my life. All I need to know is basic arithmetic and percentages to count my cash.


I got into a top school and slaved for a degree in molecular bio/immunology, and vow never to touch anything science related for the rest of my life. It was a painful 4 years.
I also took an intro programming course, and said fuck that too.
I hate STEM for the most part, and only did it because I thought I needed it to make money.
 
Everyone should go into their respective degree programs with their eyes open. Colleges are businesses that rely on selling degrees to students to remain solvent and pay salaries. Some are worth it, some are questionable, some simply aren't.
 
It's all going to depend on the quality of the primary school systems.

If we're talking Chicago Public School System? It's like dousing money in liquid oxygen, setting it ablaze, pooping on it, then flushing it down an outhouse and nuking the outhouse.
And that's assuming CPS doesn't illegally divert the funds into their MASSIVELY over-promised pension system...
 
The US has always turned out fantastic STEM grads, desired all over the world.

Chas said:
It's all going to depend on the quality of the primary school systems.

If we're talking Chicago Public School System? It's like dousing money in liquid oxygen, setting it ablaze, pooping on it, then flushing it down an outhouse and nuking the outhouse.
And that's assuming CPS doesn't illegally divert the funds into their MASSIVELY over-promised pension system...
Click to expand...

I've always been kind of blown away by how disparate education is from state to state. I know state's rights and all that bullshit, but public education needs to have a federal strategy and standards that absolutely must be met.
 
My issue is that coding, in a traditional sense, is going to disappear quickly IMO. It has been shown already that deep learning machines can already make deep learning machines than humans can. So why won't a deep learning machine be able to make a better code structure than any human can. The only skill that will matter in the future is knowing what question to ask and how to interpret the results to ask the next question.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
The US has always turned out fantastic STEM grads, desired all over the world.

I've always been kind of blown away by how disparate education is from state to state. I know state's rights and all that bullshit, but public education needs to have a federal strategy and standards that absolutely must be met.
Click to expand...

Unless you're talking about a voucher system, I'm going to go with "Hell The Fuck No".

Because state government is already fucked up and bad as it is.

Involving the Federal Government in something like this is a recipe for turning out entire generations of unemployable chuckle-heads.

And I don't give a shit if teachers unions don't like it. Put out a better class of teacher or stand in the unemployment line with all the other monuments to mediocrity.

Illinois is roughly #13 in terms of spending per-student. And CPS gets some of the most miserable results.

By enacting a voucher system, it allows parents to get their kids away from CPS's thug daycare and into places where their education can be prioritized.
 
Trepidati0n said:
My issue is that coding, in a traditional sense, is going to disappear quickly IMO. It has been shown already that deep learning machines can already make deep learning machines than humans can. So why won't a deep learning machine be able to make a better code structure than any human can. The only skill that will matter in the future is knowing what question to ask and how to interpret the results to ask the next question.
Click to expand...

There's more to STEM than programming though. I'd agree that pursuing a software developer job at this point in time is probably not an intelligent move if you're under 15. But things like Cyber Security are a bit different.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I've always been kind of blown away by how disparate education is from state to state. I know state's rights and all that bullshit, but public education needs to have a federal strategy and standards that absolutely must be met.
Click to expand...

As an educator in Maryland. I, along with an overwhelmingly large majority of my fellow co-workers agree. We need a unified and vigorous NATIONAL education program funded equally by needs and population, not based on property taxes, and which doesn't rely on unnecessary testing stealing roughly 2/10th of valuable learning time from students. Oh, and private schools? One of the worst things parents could do for their children, unless you're in the 1% and can send your child to some fancy school that only has 8 kids per teacher. (Which is another BIG issue with underfunded public schools these days). Average class size at my school is 27, a few others in the area are at 33. Our own board of education says it should be 18 or less, but there's no money, plus there's a massive teacher shortage. Good luck individualizing the needs of 33 students, while evaluating work and planning the next week of lessons. All while doing mandatory extracurricular activities far past your "working hours" with no additional pay.

But then we have people like Chas, who has probably never volunteered for even a single day in any of our schools, but thinks as an outsider he has all the (extremely wrong) answers, that'll only make the situation he claims to want to fix much worse by stealing valuable resources from where it's most needed. That there is why the system is screwed up to begin with. Politicians are voted in by uninformed citizens and are either ignorant and don't know what they're doing and only make things worse, or they're paid off by corporate schools, which stand to make BILLIONS while others suffer. Which like normal in America, if you want to know why something is broke, ask who's getting rich off of it. (Like Education Secretary Betsy DeVos)
 
Last edited:
Local new channel was talking about how one of the local school districts was giving kids games for STEAM over the summer, I sat there for a moment wondering how I would qualify for one of these STEAM vouchers. Instead they where talking about; Science, Technology, Engineering, Arts, and Math.

Bleh, here I thought I might be able to get a deal on the next CoD or something.....
 
Chunder said:
As an educator in Maryland. I, along with an overwhelmingly large majority of my fellow co-workers agree. We need a unified and vigorous NATIONAL education program funded equally by needs and population, not based on property taxes, and which doesn't rely on unnecessary testing stealing roughly 2/10th of valuable learning time from students. Oh, and private schools? One of the worst things parents could do for their children, unless you're in the 1% and can send your child to some fancy school that only has 8 kids per teacher. (Which is another BIG issue with underfunded public schools these days). Average class size at my school is 27, a few others in the area are at 33. Our own board of education says it should be 18 or less, but there's no money, plus there's a massive teacher shortage. Good luck individualizing the needs of 33 students, while evaluating work and planning the next week of lessons. All while doing mandatory extracurricular activities far past your "working hours" with no additional pay.

But then we have people like Chas, who has probably never volunteered for even a single day in any of our schools, but thinks as an outsider he has all the (extremely wrong) answers, that'll only make the situation he claims to want to fix much worse by stealing valuable resources from where it's most needed.
Click to expand...


I have a hard time believing more government intervention is good for anyone or anything. TBH, it's a double edged sword and more often than not it's the parents that are failing their children. The school should not be instilling the discipline to study or establishing learning habits. That is entirely the parents job, as well as introducing them to other area's that they could turn into a job skill later. If your child hits high school and doesn't know if he/she likes specific area's of science and engineering, computer programming, mechanics, etc, you are a shitty parent.

The other side is school today is far in excess of what it was 20+ years ago. In the 70's and 80's it was rare for a student to hit 9th grade with pre-cal and leaving past calc3. It's pretty common today, and a parent with only a very minimal high school diploma will not be able to help tutor that child, no matter what they want to do. They can still help in other ways though, and I see those being neglected constantly.
 
Cyraxx said:
Off the top of my head I had this question.... When I was in school ~10 or so years ago, there was always that bullying stigma or whatever of "computer geeks" indicating that you're a loser if you sit on a computer all-day. Do other countries have this at all? Maybe that's why a lot of stupid people get deterred from STEM at an early age.
Click to expand...

I graduated in 1994. I was a computer nerd. It had that stigma then. When the internet got big, we started seeing more of the "bro''s" in the industry. Some are very, very good at what they do. Others went for the quick "Make $100K with just a CCNA!" and burnt out or are still around just floating by.

I'm fine with pushing STEM. As long as the person is interested in it. You can always tell those that have a passion for what they do. It shows in their work, in their career. Some people hate what they are doing. Some went into the wrong career or it wasn't what they expected or someone pushed them into it. You can really spot those people.

I say get kids interested in it. If they have that desire to move forward, give them the resources. I had to do self-study my Jr. and Sr. year (humble brag shit - I was fucking awesome). They had very basic (BASIC) programming that I went way above and beyond for. I just loved what I did. I got in trouble for screwing with the new Novell network. Now, many schools have the Cisco Academy, Raspberry Pi's, robotics club, programming competitions, etc.. Being a nerd is ... well, not COOL, but it's definitely a lot better perceived as it once was. I'd love to be young right now with what some of the schools offer. I think they need to move forward with more of it. Not just an after school thing, but a class dedicated to technology. Throw different things at them so they can find if they like it, and they can dabble in different things. Computer Security, warehouse automation, green power, development, etc.. They have advanced chemistry, astronomy, biology, physics, maths, etc.. I'd love to see the more advanced computer classes evolve to more mainstream classes. <<<----this is just what I've seen from many Oregon/Washington schools in my area.
 
Chunder said:
As an educator in Maryland. I, along with an overwhelmingly large majority of my fellow co-workers agree. We need a unified and vigorous NATIONAL education program funded equally by needs and population, not based on property taxes, and which doesn't rely on unnecessary testing stealing roughly 2/10th of valuable learning time from students. Oh, and private schools? One of the worst things parents could do for their children, unless you're in the 1% and can send your child to some fancy school that only has 8 kids per teacher.
Click to expand...

Kind of left your thoughts on a cliff hanger. Why would sending your kid to a private school be the worst thing you could do compared to public classrooms?
 
Why is the Federal Government involved in this?
How is this the role of the Federal Government?
No child left behind didn't work.
 
alxnet7227 said:
Kind of left your thoughts on a cliff hanger. Why would sending your kid to a private school be the worst thing you could do compared to public classrooms?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess I just assumed people knew why they were bad. There's a lot of reasons as to why a majority of private schools are bad, one of the primary ones being weaker regulations (in a lot of the schools, teachers aren't required to have a degree) and systems that aren't designed to meet the needs of every student (your kid is falling behind, some will kick your child out vs giving them what they need). The quick answer is rather simple though. If everyone went to public schools, the "rich and powerful" would stop playing games with the system to their own personal benefit at the cost of everyone else, and we'd have a world leading system similar to Finland. (Which has all but banned private schools) If everyone's child went to a public school, including the rich and powerful, they'll be funded and staffed properly the very next day. This wouldn't just benefit their children, but it'll benefit all children and lift our nation together.

If you're truly interested in learning more about our schooling vs other areas of the world. I do recommend Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next". I know some of his stuff is "controversial" for some, however in regards to the education part of this documentary when he visited Finland (ranked #1 in the world for education), it is spot on, and without bias.
 
Madoc said:
Something we can *all* agree on? Nope. If I had my way, I would abolish the Department of Education, which was created by Jimmy Carter back when he was president. I don't like seeing the federal government part of primary education in any way whatsoever. That should be the states' purview only.
Click to expand...
Great idea, then we get the Dumbfuckistan parts of America throwing "Evolution is only a 'theory'" stickers on every biology book the schools use throughout the state.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Great idea, then we get the Dumbfuckistan parts of America throwing "Evolution is only a 'theory'" stickers on every biology book the schools use throughout the state.
Click to expand...

Or states like Lousiana and their Yall-Qaeda shoving God down children's throats. So much for separation of church and state, and Christianity's teachings of worshiping in private.
 
Chunder said:
snip.
Click to expand...

Sigh.
Education starts at home. I was a product of private and public education. Private education helped me with my dyslexia...public; not so much. I am glad that someone was able to help me overcome my (QUOTE IN CAPS)"disability"(UN QUOTE IN CAPS). Anyways, that was my journey--I wonder how many others fall through the cracks.

Back to the opening statement. I am a stay at home dad. I am sending my kiddos to PUBLIC schooling. However I will be riding their respective asses (No pornhub search needed please) to ensure that they are on track with their curriculum and absorbing the appropriate knowledge. The issue at hand is that folks seem to think that it is someone else's responsibility to indoctrinate their crotch droppings. It's not. It starts at home, be responsible parents and educate your children...regardless of what "theory" one believes. Who the fuck cares what "Theory" reigns supreme within one's home, EDUCATE your offspring for God's' SAKE; don't depend on the government to do this....


Signed a Black republican.


PS.
You better believe that my crotch droppings will be affluent with all things STEM related.
 
Chunder said:
If everyone went to public schools, the "rich and powerful" would stop playing games with the system to their own personal benefit at the cost of everyone else, and we'd have a world leading system similar to Finland. (Which has all but banned private schools) If everyone's child went to a public school, including the rich and powerful, they'll be funded and staffed properly the very next day. This wouldn't just benefit their children, but it'll benefit all children and lift our nation together.
Click to expand...
I am curious as to your stance on homeschooling. Does home education destroy public schools?
 
Chunder said:
Sorry, I guess I just assumed people knew why they were bad. There's a lot of reasons as to why a majority of private schools are bad, one of the primary ones being weaker regulations (in a lot of the schools, teachers aren't required to have a degree) and systems that aren't designed to meet the needs of every student (your kid is falling behind, some will kick your child out vs giving them what they need). The quick answer is rather simple though. If everyone went to public schools, the "rich and powerful" would stop playing games with the system to their own personal benefit at the cost of everyone else, and we'd have a world leading system similar to Finland. (Which has all but banned private schools) If everyone's child went to a public school, including the rich and powerful, they'll be funded and staffed properly the very next day. This wouldn't just benefit their children, but it'll benefit all children and lift our nation together.

If you're truly interested in learning more about our schooling vs other areas of the world. I do recommend Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next". I know some of his stuff is "controversial" for some, however in regards to the education part of this documentary when he visited Finland (ranked #1 in the world for education), it is spot on, and without bias.
Click to expand...

I don't think anything would really be all that different if we got rid of private schools. The rich already live in area's that have very high property taxes. And I would be perfectly happy with a school kicking a kid out for not keeping up because it's indicative of parents that are not doing their part. Why should all of the kids be held back because of 1 with shitty parents. If that kid isn't a special needs case, someone should go talk to their parents and help them get straightened out for the next school. As far as I am concerned this is no different that a parent that doesn't make their kid wear a seat belt. They don't deserve their children and their children deserve better.
 
KarsusTG said:
And I would be perfectly happy with a school kicking a kid out for not keeping up because it's indicative of parents that are not doing their part.
Click to expand...

A large majority of "absent" parents are actually good parents, the narrative that's put against them, often our African American brothers and sisters, is wrong and politically motivated to form a "us vs them" narrative as we fight and blame each other that keeps the status quo safe. It's just due to their socio-economic situation that they're forced to work long hours or multiple jobs in order to provide a roof over their children's heads and to put food on their plate. In many cases, they work harder than the rest of us, yet still get paid less. Punishing their children will only lock that family into their socio-economic situation and further stack the odds against them in our "rigged" system. If we really want to help children and parents, we'll raise the minimum wage to a living wage, as it was intended to be, and we'll also help those that still fall below their areas poverty line with housing assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, etc. Some will say that's too expensive, however if we really want to save money, we could cut administrative cost while helping our citizens with universal basic income. This would allow parents, even a single mother or father, to work 1 normal hour job, afford that roof over their head and food on their kids plate, and to raise their child. In fact, the recent military increase that nearly got unanimous approval would more than pay for the above. We could fix our country, and raise us all up together without going into debt. Others will say this just creates a bigger government, but the size of our government isn't the problem. It's who they work for that is, and our priorities as a nation has simply been backwards for decades.
 
Last edited:
Loop242 said:
I am curious as to your stance on homeschooling. Does home education destroy public schools?
Click to expand...
Fuck home schooling.
Ain't nobody got time for that.

Specifically: kiddos need socialization, this is not something that is inherent with home schooling. I'll say it again, it starts at home educate your kiddos dont depend on the government to educate your crotch droppings. It STARTS at home. Afterwards one needs to come alongside and reinforce the learning path...fill in some blanks...spark a desire to gain knowledge, all that and whatnot. As i see it, this was forgotten (or tinfoil hat: purposely anesthetized) by the last 3 generations.
 
Chunder said:
As an educator in Maryland. I, along with an overwhelmingly large majority of my fellow co-workers agree. We need a unified and vigorous NATIONAL education program funded equally by needs and population, not based on property taxes, and which doesn't rely on unnecessary testing stealing roughly 2/10th of valuable learning time from students. Oh, and private schools? One of the worst things parents could do for their children, unless you're in the 1% and can send your child to some fancy school that only has 8 kids per teacher. (Which is another BIG issue with underfunded public schools these days). Average class size at my school is 27, a few others in the area are at 33. Our own board of education says it should be 18 or less, but there's no money, plus there's a massive teacher shortage. Good luck individualizing the needs of 33 students, while evaluating work and planning the next week of lessons. All while doing mandatory extracurricular activities far past your "working hours" with no additional pay.

But then we have people like Chas, who has probably never volunteered for even a single day in any of our schools, but thinks as an outsider he has all the (extremely wrong) answers, that'll only make the situation he claims to want to fix much worse by stealing valuable resources from where it's most needed. That there is why the system is screwed up to begin with. Politicians are voted in by uninformed citizens and are either ignorant and don't know what they're doing and only make things worse, or they're paid off by corporate schools, which stand to make BILLIONS while others suffer. Which like normal in America, if you want to know why something is broke, ask who's getting rich off of it. (Like Education Secretary Betsy DeVos)
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have been in the Educational System, behind the scenes long enough and heard what teachers and faculty talk about when not upholding the myth of the self-sacrificing educator in public - teachers who hate their students and laugh about how stupid they are and mock how some of the less intelligent ones can't grasp the lessons while also bitching about having to help said student, long-tenured teachers making 85k a year and owning a house and 3 cars leading the way for calls to strike for more money while great substitute teachers trying to get a break and make it full time but are barely getting by on their checks are forced to strike with them because of union rules, school and district administrators trying to get teachers nearing retirement fired so they don't have to pay their retirement - oh trust me, being a technician working on machines, you may as well not exist and faculty will say a TON in front of you like you don't even exist. Yes, there are some good teachers, but what I learned is they are few, keep their heads down and mouths shut for fear of retribution from those in the system out for themselves, and never sell a student short - rather than the ones who pay lip service to it and laugh about it with their fellow faculty behind closed doors.

Education overall is a pit - a cesspool. And I am not even talking CPS or inner city schools - these were mostly middle class, suburban high schools and local colleges I worked for. Its why I left for the business sector of IT and never once regretted it - merit simply matters more in business, and politics matters more in Education. And in my mind, not one damn selfish, self-serving educator has the moral wiggle room to say a damn thing about Betsy DeVos before cleaning up their own cesspool and finding a conscience first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Madoc
like this
Yeah, the federal govern
sfsuphysics said:
Great idea, then we get the Dumbfuckistan parts of America throwing "Evolution is only a 'theory'" stickers on every biology book the schools use throughout the state.
Click to expand...
And? If you put your kids into government schools, then their education is at the mercy of whatever the government puts into their minds. The thing is, it's easier to change curriculum at a state level than at a federal level. Same with funding. I'd think people would rather have more of a say in how their kids are educated than less of one.
 
Chunder said:
As an educator in Maryland. I, along with an overwhelmingly large majority of my fellow co-workers agree.
Click to expand...

You mean your teacher's union.


We need a unified and vigorous NATIONAL education program funded equally by needs and population, not based on property taxes, and which doesn't rely on unnecessary testing stealing roughly 2/10th of valuable learning time from students.
Click to expand...

Meaning you resist any sort of performance metrics designed to show if you're actually doing a good job. You also want, not only at the state level, but at the NATIONAL LEVEL, a complete lock on the educational decisions for your students. Regardless of how well such methods work.

How about NO.

Even in states with high per-student spending caps, where MORE than half the money goes towards the teacher's salary and pension, there is no solid correlation between spending and quality of education.

You people have a near monopoly on public education, and it's failing children. All day, every day, every year.

I think it's time to stop ignoring what teachers unions say and try something a bit different. From those SUCCESSFULLY getting results in education.

Oh, and private schools? One of the worst things parents could do for their children, unless you're in the 1% and can send your child to some fancy school that only has 8 kids per teacher.
Click to expand...

Yep. And the problem pretty much disappears with vouchering systems. Because not every kid gets lumped into the same facility. Thus spreading out the student load and providing the teachers more time per-student. It also diverts more money towards facilities that are doing well, enabling them to expand successful programs.


But then we have people like Chas, who has probably never volunteered for even a single day in any of our schools, but thinks as an outsider he has all the (extremely wrong) answers, that'll only make the situation he claims to want to fix much worse by stealing valuable resources from where it's most needed.
Click to expand...

Again, it's been shown that simple things like AMOUNT of money per-student is NOT an indicator of the success of a program. That private or magnet programs operating well below the state funding average can still provide successful, quality educational results.

But, then, this introduces COMPETITION into education and puts pressure on substandard educators and their protectionist unions to justify their continued employment.

You can sit here and slander me all you like.

Unfortunately, one of your number screwed up and allowed me to learn that 2+2=4. And you're sitting here arguing that it's 22.

Your right to a job comes SECONDARY to a kid's right to a quality education.
 
Chunder said:
A large majority of "absent" parents are actually good parents, the narrative that's put against them, often our African American brothers and sisters, is wrong and politically motivated to form a "us vs them" narrative as we fight and blame each other that keeps the status quo safe. It's just due to their socio-economic situation that they're forced to work long hours or multiple jobs in order to provide a roof over their children's heads and to put food on their plate. In many cases, they work harder than the rest of us, yet still get paid less. Punishing their children will only lock that family into their socio-economic situation and further stack the odds against them in our "rigged" system. If we really want to help children and parents, we'll raise the minimum wage to a living wage, as it was intended to be, and we'll also help those that still fall below their areas poverty line with housing assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, etc. Some will say that's too expensive, however if we really want to save money, we could cut administrative cost while helping our citizens with universal basic income. This would allow parents, even a single mother or father, to work 1 normal hour job, afford that roof over their head and food on their kids plate, and to raise their child. In fact, the recent military increase that nearly got unanimous approval would more than pay for the above. We could fix our country, and raise us all up together without going into debt. Others will say this just creates a bigger government, but the size of our government isn't the problem. It's who they work for that is, and our priorities as a nation has simply been backwards for decades.
Click to expand...


I would be all for a UBI in place of this patchwork of crap we have now and at some point we will not have a choice, but at the moment there really is no way to make it work mathematically. I mean honestly, that is somewhere in the ballpark of 4.7trillion/year just to put $1200/month in 330 million peoples pockets. Of course, rent will just go up 1200/month shortly after and we will be right back in the spot we were in before UBI.

It's the same with the minimum wage being raised to $15. This mostly hurts the lower end people because they don't represent $15/hr in value, while also reducing the buying power of the people making $30-50k/year.

But all this still needs to be put into context. The best thing you can do to bring your family out of poverty is invest in the children to make the next generation better off. We are the first generation in a looong time to make less than our parents and grandparents and it is mostly out of laziness and I > my kids.
 
Domingow said:
Sigh.
Education starts at home. I was a product of private and public education. Private education helped me with my dyslexia...public; not so much. I am glad that someone was able to help me overcome my (QUOTE IN CAPS)"disability"(UN QUOTE IN CAPS). Anyways, that was my journey--I wonder how many others fall through the cracks.

Back to the opening statement. I am a stay at home dad. I am sending my kiddos to PUBLIC schooling. However I will be riding their respective asses (No pornhub search needed please) to ensure that they are on track with their curriculum and absorbing the appropriate knowledge. The issue at hand is that folks seem to think that it is someone else's responsibility to indoctrinate their crotch droppings. It's not. It starts at home, be responsible parents and educate your children...regardless of what "theory" one believes. Who the fuck cares what "Theory" reigns supreme within one's home, EDUCATE your offspring for God's' SAKE; don't depend on the government to do this....


Signed a Black republican.


PS.
You better believe that my crotch droppings will be affluent with all things STEM related.
Click to expand...

And it's parents like you that'll make their kids lives a living hell up front...
And INFINITELY better in later life.
 
As long as the funding is devoid of any language that focuses on sex or race, then i'm ok with extra money going into STEM programs.

But to be honest, i'm fairly sure that there really aren't all that many schools (public and private) that aren't already gearing towards spending more attention to STEM. I can't for the life of me remember the last time schools were investing in arts, history, language, etc.
 
Chunder said:
As an educator in Maryland. I, along with an overwhelmingly large majority of my fellow co-workers agree. We need a unified and vigorous NATIONAL education program funded equally by needs and population, not based on property taxes, and which doesn't rely on unnecessary testing stealing roughly 2/10th of valuable learning time from students. Oh, and private schools? One of the worst things parents could do for their children, unless you're in the 1% and can send your child to some fancy school that only has 8 kids per teacher. (Which is another BIG issue with underfunded public schools these days). Average class size at my school is 27, a few others in the area are at 33. Our own board of education says it should be 18 or less, but there's no money, plus there's a massive teacher shortage. Good luck individualizing the needs of 33 students, while evaluating work and planning the next week of lessons. All while doing mandatory extracurricular activities far past your "working hours" with no additional pay.

But then we have people like Chas, who has probably never volunteered for even a single day in any of our schools, but thinks as an outsider he has all the (extremely wrong) answers, that'll only make the situation he claims to want to fix much worse by stealing valuable resources from where it's most needed. That there is why the system is screwed up to begin with. Politicians are voted in by uninformed citizens and are either ignorant and don't know what they're doing and only make things worse, or they're paid off by corporate schools, which stand to make BILLIONS while others suffer. Which like normal in America, if you want to know why something is broke, ask who's getting rich off of it. (Like Education Secretary Betsy DeVos)
Click to expand...
I stopped reading at private schools being a waste of time, it increases the odds of getting into a good college (college being worth it is a separate issue). I'm a parent, my only interest in sending my kid to a school is to get him an advantage in life and you just told me that shouldn't matter. I don't care what the class size is, i don't care if my kids individual needs are being met at school, I will make up for those things and teach him when teachers can't. What i care about is him being able to progress in life as best as possible and do the best he can do for himself. There is going to be no one to individualize anything when he gets to higher learning, and sits in a class that is 100+.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top