AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-Named “Matisse”

This seems way too early to know. If it was 2018 already, maybe?
 
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Damn, I want to upgrade and given how late it is after the Ryzen launch, I was hoping that Ryzen 2 was going to be released sooner.

But on the other hand, are they really not going to launch anything else until 2019?
 
If that graphic is true, it's highly promising that they're keeping to the same socket. People buying today will be able to upgrade more cheaply in 2019.

grtitan said:
Damn, I want to upgrade and given how late it is after the Ryzen launch,
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Huh? Ryzen's only just been released. 18 months from now seems a reasonable timeframe.
 
Quartz-1 said:
Huh? Ryzen's only just been released.
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If we go with a per year schedule, like almost everything else these days, a replacement should be around the corner,

Quartz-1 said:
18 months from now seems a reasonable timeframe.
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Again, give the current products refreshes, I dont think that AMD can sit on Ryzen without any type of refresh for 18 months.

Now, lets be realistic, is a new product or refresh really needed? No, given that maybe 80% of the time, our CPU's are sitting idle, but like I said, just following the cadence and in my opinion, a revision would be good, that allows higher overclocking.

Personally, I want a good x370 matx Ryzen mobo, but for some reason, that doesnt exist and almost all the B350 I have looked at, seems to be lacking features here and there.

Lastly, I kind of miss the slow pace of the 80's and 90's, when a CPU will be sold for more than 5 years.
 
grtitan said:
Damn, I want to upgrade and given how late it is after the Ryzen launch, I was hoping that Ryzen 2 was going to be released sooner.

But on the other hand, are they really not going to launch anything else until 2019?
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they'll be doing a refresh in 2018 on either an updated 14nm process or 12nm.. hopefully they're able to solve the limited clock speeds because if they can even get remotely close to intel's base clocks pigs will fly and shit will hit the fan at intel's HQ. if they're able to get the base clocks to 4Ghz with some overclock headroom i'd be willing to consider upgrading again otherwise i'll gladly wait til zen 2 to see what they're able to do with that. i usually sit on systems for 3-4 years before upgrading.
 
Shintai said:
The refresh is Zen on 14LP+ that got renamed to 12LP. You can call that Zen+.
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So it looks like they are Tick-Tocking it like Intel used to.

That's pretty good.

I was worried there for a second if what they have now is all they'll put out until 2019.

The Zen arch is great, and huge leap for them beating (at least my) expectations, but they need to continue with rapidfire improvements, or risk falling back to a mostly irrelevant distant second in the market where they were.
 
grtitan said:
Damn, I want to upgrade and given how late it is after the Ryzen launch, I was hoping that Ryzen 2 was going to be released sooner.

But on the other hand, are they really not going to launch anything else until 2019?
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It's only been 6 months since the R7 parts were released. AMD doesn't have the money that Intel has to be able to release a new chip every 6-8 months.
Unoid said:
Isn't there a Zen+ refresh between Zen 1 and Zen 2?
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I don't know if AMD are calling it Zen+, but Pinnacle Ridge is the Ryzen refresh that is on their roadmap for next year. It will be on "12nm" LP as Shintai said.
 
Even if you buy a new motherboard NOW in 2 years AMD is claiming you can use the same socket when the Zen2 rolls out. That's awesome for backward compatibility. I normally upgrade on a 2.5-3yr cycle for my system and that would mean I could get the best motherboard of this generation at a lower price or a server grade mobo with all the bells and whistles when the prices plummet for the new hotness.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
they'll be doing a refresh in 2018 on either an updated 14nm process or 12nm.. hopefully they're able to solve the limited clock speeds because if they can even get remotely close to intel's base clocks pigs will fly and shit will hit the fan at intel's HQ. if they're able to get the base clocks to 4Ghz with some overclock headroom i'd be willing to consider upgrading again otherwise i'll gladly wait til zen 2 to see what they're able to do with that. i usually sit on systems for 3-4 years before upgrading.
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Exactly what I am kind of waiting for, given that my i5-3570k is doing well for my needs.

Armenius said:
AMD doesn't have the money that Intel has to be able to release a new chip every 6-8 months.
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I know they dont have that money and I never said that I expected a new chip between 6-8 months after Ryzen release.

I imagined that, as I already said, they followed the current market trend, they would have something in less than 6 months, since it would be a year after Ryzen's launch.
 
As far as previous roadmaps leaks or whatever, Zen, Zen+ (Zen 2) Zen++(Zen 3) etc..AMD is smart to keep all their chickens in the roost for the most part, it allows them to work on their designs, actual product names and such..Pinnacle Ridge might have "forced" them to change naming schemes or something because of IMO some of the issues they noticed, maybe the limited clock speed for Zen, maybe because GF announced transition to 12nm as an interim between 14nm and 7nm etc.

Suppose there is many moving parts for leading edge design so many things need to happen in naming, product life cycles and such. It would be nice if AMD had more flexibility of using the Fab they feel would offer them the best opportunity to make their product, being locked into a WSA with GF or paying many millions $$ to "buy out" is not a good thing for a company who at the very least is doing everything they can just to stay remotely relevant these days. overall IMO from the Radeon 7000 series up to current Vega, Phenom II up to current Ryzen/Threadripper/EPYC AMD makes some very well made/designed products BUT they are also "strapped" with just keeping ahead in paying the bills sort of speak.

Will be interesting to see the coming years indeed.
 
Well that roadmap is just crazy, I mean using the same socket for three years in a row!

Apparently, AMD doesn't understand the new CPU/new socket Intel approach. :ROFLMAO:
 
The single most important part, Raven Ridge is now officially delayed till 2018 and it wont eb using 12LP before sometime in 2019.
 
grtitan said:
If we go with a per year schedule, like almost everything else these days, a replacement should be around the corner,



Again, give the current products refreshes, I dont think that AMD can sit on Ryzen without any type of refresh for 18 months.

Now, lets be realistic, is a new product or refresh really needed? No, given that maybe 80% of the time, our CPU's are sitting idle, but like I said, just following the cadence and in my opinion, a revision would be good, that allows higher overclocking.

Personally, I want a good x370 matx Ryzen mobo, but for some reason, that doesnt exist and almost all the B350 I have looked at, seems to be lacking features here and there.

Lastly, I kind of miss the slow pace of the 80's and 90's, when a CPU will be sold for more than 5 years.
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You might consider moving to X399 and the entry level 8 core Threadripper. It's only $549 (almost same price as the Ryzen), offers similar performance and overclocking, but will get you into a better chipset with more features.
 
RealBeast said:
Well that roadmap is just crazy, I mean using the same socket for three years in a row!

Apparently, AMD doesn't understand the new CPU/new socket Intel approach. :ROFLMAO:
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A consequence of that is you won't always have access to the latest platform technologies. How long was AMD stuck on PCI-E 2.x?
 
Armenius said:
A consequence of that is you won't always have access to the latest platform technologies. How long was AMD stuck on PCI-E 2.x?
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Unless you have benchmarks I haven't seen the biggest difference I saw from 2-3 was 5-7 FPS if you were using 3 way SLI/Crossfire.

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_20_vs_30_gpu_gaming_performance_review/8

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=pcie-gpu-123&num=2

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/pci_express_scaling_game_performance_analysis_review,8.html

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_PCI_Express_Scaling/14.html
 
grtitan said:
I imagined that, as I already said, they followed the current market trend, they would have something in less than 6 months, since it would be a year after Ryzen's launch.
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Why? There's no competition for Ryzen as it is. AMD gets to set the 'current market trend' right now.
 
jnemesh said:
You might consider moving to X399 and the entry level 8 core Threadripper. It's only $549 (almost same price as the Ryzen), offers similar performance and overclocking, but will get you into a better chipset with more features.
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Hmm, thats a good option. Have you seen any matx TR mobos?

DeathFromBelow said:
Why? There's no competition for Ryzen as it is. AMD gets to set the 'current market trend' right now.
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Ok. Let them sit on the same CPU for 2 years then and see if it goes as well as pre-ryzen.
 
I'm fine with this, I'd rather have AMD drop meaningful increases/updates every ~2 years than what Intel has been doing, which up until recently has been "Look at our brand new product with it's 4.7% performance increase, WOOOOOOW!".
 
I read that name wrong. I guess it's "Matisse" and not "Mattis"? Damn they really missed a good chance at a CPU name with balls.

That CPU name would have caused Intel to change it's name to Insomnia

what-keeps-you-awake-at-night-nothing-i-keep-other-22327556.png


I can't wait to see what the 12nm process brings to the table.
 
griff30 said:
I read that name wrong. I guess it's "Matisse" and not "Mattis"? Damn they really missed a good chance at a CPU name with balls.

That CPU name would have caused Intel to change it's name to Insomnia

what-keeps-you-awake-at-night-nothing-i-keep-other-22327556.png


I can't wait to see what the 12nm process brings to the table.
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Changing it to Mattis instead would work really well if they also went with Covfefe Lake which I think they should have done in the first place.
 
2019!?!?

That's an eternity in technology years. Intel has their 6 core i7s (which, by the way, will match or come close to matching Ryzen 7 in multi thread tasks and absolutely destroy All Ryzens in games) printing money for over a year at that point. AMD can't afford to lose that much momentum. They need a new product out to compete and maintain public interest or else the victory that is Ryzen will be absolutely destroyed.
 
KazeoHin said:
2019!?!?
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Let's look at the linked news item...
amd-2.jpg



Intel has their 6 core i7s (which, by the way, will match or come close to matching Ryzen 7 in multi thread tasks and absolutely destroy All Ryzens in games) printing money for over a year at that point.
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The new Intel chips are a poor value and don't destroy Ryzen at anything, 4+ GHz Turbo speeds simply can't compensate for their low base clocks. Ryzen is going to dominate for a while. If AMD can do a small clockspeed or IPC bump in 2018 Intel will remain behind across the board.
 
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DeathFromBelow said:
Let's look at the linked news item...
amd-2.jpg





The new Intel chips are a poor value and don't destroy Ryzen at anything, 4+ GHz Turbo speeds simply can't compensate for their low base clocks. Ryzen is going to dominate for a while. If AMD can do a small clockspeed or IPC bump in 2018 Intel will remain behind across the board.
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You underestimate Intel. The all-core turbo of their newer i7 chips is enough to blow away Ryzen 7s all-core turbo, meaning the gap between them created by raw core-count is shrunk. We are no longer talking about a 100% increase in cores by going from i7 to Ryzen 7 dollar for dollar, we are talking about a 33% increase. Take into account the higher clockspeed and higher IPC, and you have essentially the same multi-threaded performance as Ryzen 7, only with MUCH better gaming performance across the board.

Dollar for dollar, there will be little reason to go with Ryzen 7, which is the exact opposite of the story now. If AMD doesn't react quickly, Zen will go down as an interesting footnote in the history of Intel's dominance.
 
KazeoHin said:
You underestimate Intel. The all-core turbo of their newer i7 chips is enough to blow away Ryzen 7s all-core turbo...
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Sounds a lot like the hype for the 7980XE. Intel simply cannot compensate for their lower base clock speeds. They can barely compete with Threadripper for double the price, and Ryzen out-competes the Broadwell/Skylake 6/8 core models on performance, features, and value as well.

I don't underestimate Intel, I just think the reality is that their current CPU architecture is not competitive at these high core counts.
 
Still waiting for that Raven Ridge APU so I can play games on my 1080P TV with anything other than low/medium quality with no AA...
 
I keep seeing "INTEL DOES IT BETTER" but, everyone who spouts that keeps ignoring the cost aspect. (like it doesn't exist all of a sudden)

Games... sure, 7700K all the way if you want to spend the money. (otherwise, 1500x/1600 is a wise choice for your money).

Everything else.. unless you have a bottomless wallet (I sure dont!), AMD has the market cornered in terms of value (performance per dollar).

This 7980x is a complete waste of money.


Bowman15 said:
Still waiting for that Raven Ridge APU so I can play games on my 1080P TV with anything other than low/medium quality with no AA...
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Me to, I'm really considering a nice little A8-9600 box to hold me over and get a taste for the platforum.
 
X470 and B450 chipsets also seems to be in the works for the refresh in 2018.
 
grtitan said:
Lastly, I kind of miss the slow pace of the 80's and 90's, when a CPU will be sold for more than 5 years.
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<cheap shot>
That's what Intel have actually been doing for the past five years having virtually no competition around.
</cheap shot>
: -)
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Sounds a lot like the hype for the 7980XE.
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Or 8700k? We're talking consumer desktop stuff in this thread from what I can see, given the 'AM4' headline, not HEDT.

Private_Ops said:
I keep seeing "INTEL DOES IT BETTER" but, everyone who spouts that keeps ignoring the cost aspect. (like it doesn't exist all of a sudden)

...

This 7980x is a complete waste of money.
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If you want that many threads and/or need something Intel does, it isn't. If you just need tons of threads, then awesome, buy TR!

Also, on cost: have you seen how much more it costs to buy RAM that allows Ryzen to compete?
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Or 8700k? We're talking consumer desktop stuff in this thread from what I can see, given the 'AM4' headline, not HEDT.



If you want that many threads and/or need something Intel does, it isn't. If you just need tons of threads, then awesome, buy TR!

Also, on cost: have you seen how much more it costs to buy RAM that allows Ryzen to compete?
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It sure as hell aint a $1000 cost in ram.
 
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