Just bought a 1080Ti time for a cpu upgrade as well?

S

S203

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As the title states I just picked up a 1080Ti. I currently only have a 1080p 144hz monitor, but I do also own an oculus rift. Honestly coming from a GTX 970 I was expecting a larger bump in performance. So now I am suspecting that my processor is the cause of my lower than average FPS. My processor is a i5 3570k at 4.4ghz, I cannot get it any higher then 4.4ghz without it become extremely unstable. So now I'm wondering if upgrading to 3770k would help any, or if I should just wait till coffee lake arrives. Also not sure if my Cinebench opengl score of 79.60.

Thanks
 
Going from a 970 to a 1080Ti is a huge performance boost. You wont see anything near that kind of performance boost by upgrading to any CPU on the market today. Period.
 
Well that's why I am thinking of upgrading my CPU. Just because I didn't see a big performance jump from the 1080ti. I would imagine if I had something like a 7700k I would have see a larger jump. But that's why I'm curious now if I should just upgrade to a i7 3770k or just save my money until coffee lake arrives or is ryzen a compelling option?
 
Guess you didn't understand me.

The performance boost from your GPU upgrade is more than what you'll get from a CPU upgrade.

IE:
Lets say your current system was averaging 50 FPS. Then you got a new GPU and now it's averaging 100 FPS. Upgrading to a better CPU will give you 110 FPS.

So basically you gained 50 FPS with a GPU upgrade and 10 FPS with a CPU upgrade

Those figures are only examples and are not real world numbers.

If you are disappointed by the performance boost by going from a 970 to a 1080Ti then you'll be even more disappointed after you upgrade your CPU. It's just not going to be noticeable.
 
No I understand what you mean, so it sounds like sticking with my 3570k is probably a better option right now. Just had a fear that my processor is bottlenecking the 1080ti, especially considering I'm only gaming at 1080p. If going to a 7700k is only going to yield me 10 FPS then that's something I don't wanna do. Sorry for making you having to explain all that too lol.
 
I'm guessing that the OP is wondering about his CPU throttling the new GPU.
 
I am curious what games you are trying and how close to 1080 144 you are getting? In theory the 1080ti is like 4x the GPU power and ivy to kabby CPU is at best 20% clock for clock. But if you are CPU bound then maybe worth it but as stated above a lot of $ for a relatively minimal gain. Also not sure if getting hyper threading would help much in most games.

I think there is a way to enable debug mode on the Oculus so you can see if your in the 90fps range there too.
 
I tested it with GTA 5, World of Warcraft (I know not a good game to judge with), Assetto Corsa VR, and Euro Truck Simulator VR (Another Bad game to test since DX9). I will say ark survival evolved played amazing on epic settings. So a lot of it honestly probably has to do with just the limitation of the game engines. But judging by all the youtube reviewers I was expecting to be closer to there results. I averaged around 100 fps in GTA 5 with high settings. Also I was getting my fps from MSI Afterburner, and I have a feeling that for VR fps it isnt completely accurate.
 
If you can find a good 3770k, drop it in; Hyperthreading helps with 'smoothness' in operational usage, i.e., how we actually use our desktops versus how benchmarks are run. This is even more applicable for multi-player games that are difficult to reliably benchmark.

If not, bite your lip and wait for that 6C12T goodness.

[I'll mention Ryzen, but like the 3770k you'll get smoother framerates more than faster framerates, and the platform cost when it comes to getting RAM that will let you get the most out of it is exorbitant...]
 
Just look at your GPU usage. If it isn't near 100% you're CPU bottlenecked. At only 1080p it's pretty easy to get CPU bottlenecked compared to 1440p and 4k.
 
Yeah I will say just played Overwatch which ran great, Overwatch and ARK are the only games I've seen the GPU at 99% Usage. Most games I have noticed that my CPU usage is typically in the 90's and my GPU has been as low as 30% I've actually noticed too that a lot of games the GPU wont even use GPU boost, it will just stay at ~1500mhz.

That's why I was really thinking that my 3570k is preventing the 1080Ti from providing the framerates I saw on a lot of benchmark videos. Maybe those youtube reviews aren't perfectly credible.
 
Skillz said:
Guess you didn't understand me.

The performance boost from your GPU upgrade is more than what you'll get from a CPU upgrade.

IE:
Lets say your current system was averaging 50 FPS. Then you got a new GPU and now it's averaging 100 FPS. Upgrading to a better CPU will give you 110 FPS.

So basically you gained 50 FPS with a GPU upgrade and 10 FPS with a CPU upgrade

Those figures are only examples and are not real world numbers.

If you are disappointed by the performance boost by going from a 970 to a 1080Ti then you'll be even more disappointed after you upgrade your CPU. It's just not going to be noticeable.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but don think you really get how this works... bottlenecks and everything.
blatantly saying a CPU upgrade doe not give benefits it just not how things works.
Different software and settings incur different load balances of the system and a difference in when a part becomes the leading bottleneck.
Your model of thinking is just to simple to really describe how things works.

I'm not trying to be mean but i've seen several cases where this kind of advice leads to people buying the wrong upgrades.



S203 said:
Yeah I will say just played Overwatch which ran great, Overwatch and ARK are the only games I've seen the GPU at 99% Usage. Most games I have noticed that my CPU usage is typically in the 90's and my GPU has been as low as 30% I've actually noticed too that a lot of games the GPU wont even use GPU boost, it will just stay at ~1500mhz.

That's why I was really thinking that my 3570k is preventing the 1080Ti from providing the framerates I saw on a lot of benchmark videos. Maybe those youtube reviews aren't perfectly credible.
Click to expand...

Definatly sounds like a CPU bottleneck in the last examples.

In previous posts i've mentioend how to use Process explorer to determine what kind of CPU bottleneck you have ( core speed or more cores).
 
S203 said:
Yeah I will say just played Overwatch which ran great, Overwatch and ARK are the only games I've seen the GPU at 99% Usage. Most games I have noticed that my CPU usage is typically in the 90's and my GPU has been as low as 30% I've actually noticed too that a lot of games the GPU wont even use GPU boost, it will just stay at ~1500mhz.

That's why I was really thinking that my 3570k is preventing the 1080Ti from providing the framerates I saw on a lot of benchmark videos. Maybe those youtube reviews aren't perfectly credible.
Click to expand...

It's fine.

Overwatch isn't going to tax your GPU fully. There's another GPU metric that slips my mind at the moment. But it's a calculation based on capable clock, rop, and bandwidth or something like that. I believe standard GPU use only takes into account current clock vs cycles delivered or something.

ARK doesn't run well on any machine.

I have a 1,600 Mhz 980 Ti and it struggles. It's not just a poorly optimized game in my opinion.

I wouldn't bother upgrading your CPU until DX12.1 or whatever it may be. Right now Multi-core is pretty useless in most games.

I'm pretty happy with my 4.4 7770K. For most use cases it is the cats pajamas. I probably won't upgrade until DDR5 comes around.

Anyways. No need to upgrade! You're not leaving much on the table. You'd at max be getting 300mhz and a small IPC improvement. So perhaps 5-10%?I'm not quite sure. Don't stress about it.
 
How to measure correctly id you re CPU bottleneck and what kind it is




- download and process explore
- select the game in the process list and dbl click it
- select the threads winfows and look at the thread utilization. if any of those hits 100%number of logical cores then you need a cpu with more core performance.
- if you tottal cpu suage hits close tio 100% thenyou need a new cpu with more cores or higher core speed

if none of this is present dont waste money on a new cpu.


and here is why you cant use taksmanger msi afterburner to see all cases of cpu bottlenekcs
https://hardforum.com/threads/just-...-a-little-better-why.1914911/#post-1042593569
 
SvenBent said:
I'm sorry but don think you really get how this works... bottlenecks and everything.
blatantly saying a CPU upgrade doe not give benefits it just not how things works.
Different software and settings incur different load balances of the system and a difference in when a part becomes the leading bottleneck.
Your model of thinking is just to simple to really describe how things works.

I'm not trying to be mean but i've seen several cases where this kind of advice leads to people buying the wrong upgrades.





Definatly sounds like a CPU bottleneck in the last examples.

In previous posts i've mentioend how to use Process explorer to determine what kind of CPU bottleneck you have ( core speed or more cores).
Click to expand...

Just so we are clear here.

You really think the OP upgrading his processor to the same generation that ONLY adds Hyper Threading and he MIGHT be able to overclock it 100 - 200Mhz more than his current overclock will net him a worthwhile performance boost? Hell. No.

So I will repeat. A CPU upgrade WILL not benefit the OP at all. He probably wouldn't even notice it.

He would, at the least, need to upgrade to a newer generation which isn't a CPU upgrade anymore. It's a platform upgrade. Even then, he'd need something really new and cutting edge to see a decent performance boost. Yet, it still wouldn't be as much of a boost as him going from a 970 to a 1080 Ti.
 
Skillz said:
Just so we are clear here.

You really think the OP upgrading his processor to the same generation that ONLY adds Hyper Threading and he MIGHT be able to overclock it 100 - 200Mhz more than his current overclock will net him a worthwhile performance boost? Hell. No.

So I will repeat. A CPU upgrade WILL not benefit the OP at all. He probably wouldn't even notice it.

He would, at the least, need to upgrade to a newer generation which isn't a CPU upgrade anymore. It's a platform upgrade. Even then, he'd need something really new and cutting edge to see a decent performance boost. Yet, it still wouldn't be as much of a boost as him going from a 970 to a 1080 Ti.
Click to expand...


There is nothing to be clear about her becuase you are asking about something we dont have enough information about. thats my point.
Can an upgrade including hyperthreading and 200mhz give a boost in performance... yes,depending on the software. But since we don't know that yet. there is no clear cut answer like the ones you are making.
Which is why i informed OP a way to measure CPU bottleneck and type of bottleneck.

Solely looking at CPU and GPU type and trying to determine bottlenecks are just plain out unoptimal. You need to know the usage load as well
 
sharknice said:
Just look at your GPU usage. If it isn't near 100% you're CPU bottlenecked. At only 1080p it's pretty easy to get CPU bottlenecked compared to 1440p and 4k.
Click to expand...

This is a horrible way to measure CPU bottlenekc because you will never seen core speed related bottlenecks. if you game onyl has 2 heavy cpu threada and you are runnig a quad core 50% would be where you cap out... so you cant realy on CPU utilization alone when talking multicore/multithreaded enviroments

--- edit --
Misread SharkNice post.
Above statement is based on valid logic but responds wrongly to sharksnice post
 
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I don't need to see measurements. Going from his i5 to an i7 isn't going to give a noticeable performance boost. No where near that of the GPU upgrade he already did. Period.
 
At only 1080p I'm surprised you ever see the gpu get close to %100 usage.... these 108ti's are just insane and I can't wait to see what Volta will be able to do but it sucks because now we need better monitors that just aren't available yet

As far as the cpu goes. If he has the money to spend then by all means sure... but I would wait
 
SvenBent said:
This is a horrible way to measure CPU bottlenekc because you will never seen core speed related bottlenecks. if you game onyl has 2 heavy cpu threada and you are runnig a quad core 50% would be where you cap out... so you cant realy on CPU utilization alone when talking multicore/multithreaded enviroments
Click to expand...

I said GPU usage.
 
Skillz said:
I don't need to see measurements. Going from his i5 to an i7 isn't going to give a noticeable performance boost. No where near that of the GPU upgrade he already did. Period.
Click to expand...

OK. I ca'n give you any new information that what i've already explained that it depends on the software. its meaningless trying to debate it any further because you rather live with believes and faith than hard numbers.
But plenty of games that CPU is a bottleneck for that card running the mentioned settings.


sharknice said:
I said GPU usage.
Click to expand...
My bad. I missread.
 
Skillz said:
Just so we are clear here.

You really think the OP upgrading his processor to the same generation that ONLY adds Hyper Threading and he MIGHT be able to overclock it 100 - 200Mhz more than his current overclock will net him a worthwhile performance boost? Hell. No.

So I will repeat. A CPU upgrade WILL not benefit the OP at all. He probably wouldn't even notice it.

He would, at the least, need to upgrade to a newer generation which isn't a CPU upgrade anymore. It's a platform upgrade. Even then, he'd need something really new and cutting edge to see a decent performance boost. Yet, it still wouldn't be as much of a boost as him going from a 970 to a 1080 Ti.
Click to expand...
I agree with this particular post, especially since upgrading just the CPU of the same generation is NEVER going to be cost-effective to begin with for the OP's use. In fact, going with an i7-3770K for that PC is going to cost him more money than is justifiable by the tangible performance increases in these applications in question.
 
E4g1e said:
I agree with this particular post, especially since upgrading just the CPU of the same generation is NEVER going to be cost-effective to begin with for the OP's use. In fact, going with an i7-3770K for that PC is going to cost him more money than is justifiable by the tangible performance increases in these applications in question.
Click to expand...

This makes sense, and honestly its only some games that don't perform at the level I WANT them too. Like I don't understand why GTA 5 only hits around 90 fps if I run similar settings to those people getting 110+ fps with similar hardware. But I have noticed if I turn up the resolution scale to 1.5x 1920x1080 the framerate doesn't change very much. So to me that indicates a CPU limitation in that game. Which is fine, I mean 90 FPS is completely playable just was expecting more. With that said, I've come to the conclusion that it would be better to spend the 200 bucks for a 3770k towards a 8700k when that processor/platform is officially released.
 
hitched said:
At only 1080p I'm surprised you ever see the gpu get close to %100 usage.... these 108ti's are just insane and I can't wait to see what Volta will be able to do but it sucks because now we need better monitors that just aren't available yet

As far as the cpu goes. If he has the money to spend then by all means sure... but I would wait
Click to expand...

I don't think that it truly reached 100%.

There's 100% speed and then there's 100% capacity if you know what I mean?
 
The 1080ti excels in higher resolutions. Using it at 1080p is holding it back a lot. If you want better low FPS numbers at that rez you will need more CPU power. Look into Coffee Lake next month.
 
1080p gaming on any i5 is pretty likely to bottleneck the 1080 Ti. you'd definitely see performance boosts in various games that are CPU heavy if you upgraded your CPU. If you step up the resolution to say 1440 or 4k it would be much less the case but certainly can still be a bottleneck in certain games/situations.
 
Yeah, a buddy of mine just picked up a 1080ti over the weekend to game at 1080p on his 4690k....

All he plays is PUBG lol.

I tried to convince him to save a sh*tton of money and just pick up a 1070/1080, but when a person sets his mind on something, no amount of logic can change it.
 
PUBG is majorly dependent on CPU and RAM speed, big reason why intel is touting big performance improvements in it with the 8700k as well.
 
I am very excited for the 8700k launch. I didn't even realize how close to launch we are for that platform. But I'm pretty certain that's the route I'm going with.
 
S203 said:
I am very excited for the 8700k launch. I didn't even realize how close to launch we are for that platform. But I'm pretty certain that's the route I'm going with.
Click to expand...

I sold my 7700k and mobo last week in advance of this launch. almost certain i'll be buying a 8700k next month.
 
Skillz said:
Guess you didn't understand me.

The performance boost from your GPU upgrade is more than what you'll get from a CPU upgrade.

IE:
Lets say your current system was averaging 50 FPS. Then you got a new GPU and now it's averaging 100 FPS. Upgrading to a better CPU will give you 110 FPS.

So basically you gained 50 FPS with a GPU upgrade and 10 FPS with a CPU upgrade

Those figures are only examples and are not real world numbers.

If you are disappointed by the performance boost by going from a 970 to a 1080Ti then you'll be even more disappointed after you upgrade your CPU. It's just not going to be noticeable.
Click to expand...

He has a 1080p 144Hz monitor.

The 1080Ti should be able to max that out in any game, so if he's not seeing grand improvements it's definitely the CPU.

The 7700k might be enough of an upgrade for you, if you make sure you buy fast DDR4 to keep it fed.

Most overclock to 5 GHz, and that would give you somewhere between 35-50% performance improvement.

That's two major architectural revisions (%20 total), a 12-15% clock speed bump (overclocked), and then up to 10% improvement from the fast DDR4 (depends on the game engine).

That 35-50% improvement would bump 60 fps to 81-90 fps, or if you're suck at 90 fps it will jump you to 120-135 fps.

It's no bullshit. And on some newer games that can take advantage of HT, you'll get even higher minimums as well (compared to just buying the i5 7600k).

Not as much of a performance improvement as the as the 1080 Ti alone brought you, but if you're chasing 144 Hz it's the only way to get there. And it's about the same price as that 1080 Ti.
 
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7700K is a platform upgrade not just a CPU upgrade.
 
Skillz said:
7700K is a platform upgrade not just a CPU upgrade.
Click to expand...

I said in my post above its about the same price as that ti (motherboard, processor, memory). I'm assuming his cooler could be reused if it's one of the popular ones with a sky lake adapter kit
 
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