AMD CPU Sales Overtake Intel For The First Time In Over A Decade At Germany’s Largest E-Tailer

juanrga said:
It works both ways. You and others here also maybe want to provide proof that sales in Germany represent sales in the rest of the world, and aren't simply a local statistical anomaly.
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Or even sales in Germany as a whole. Mindfactory is a prime AMD retail partner and its not as big as some people think. Its not exactly a Newegg of Germany where retail shops are plentiful and everywhere.

But again if people like to fool themselves its their choice. Why stop a new hype train. Just let it derail as it always do with time.
 
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Shintai said:
Not surprised considering DIY people waiting for CFL. Not to mention the different release dates. New products always sell more than old. 7700K alone have sold around 20K units, 7600K 10K units and all Ryzen chips around 30K units.

At Mindfactory 175 TR chips have been sold compared to 1040 SKL-X. And that's an AMD retail partner.

And then there is this:
View attachment 35219

Ouch!
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This is the first post that tries appallingly to prove some point, god only knows what. Hell the 7700k+7600k sales against all Ryzens is supposed to prove what? Looks like AMD is doing very well considering it newer and had less time to sell. But as I have been saying your arguments are as slanted as they can be and vague as to infer some negative meaning without actually saying anything factual at all.
juanrga said:
Too bad it is only sales on "Germany" a country with a bias towards AMD products because AMD has invested millions and millions in Germany during years. Since old Athlon days up to recent A10s millions of chips have been difussed on Germany

1d35b5e7-21fd-4f55-a93c-91e610792aa0.jpg


Waiting for worldwide sales.

Note: yes I know RyZen is not diffused in Germany. It doesn't affect my argument.
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Take note this is the very first mention of worldwide sales by anyone in the thread. And you allude to bias with absolutely no proof just a flaccid argument.
cybereality said:
If this argument was true, then AMD should have been leading in Germany the whole time, yet we clearly see a huge shift in the past few months and the only thing that has changed is the release of Ryzen.
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See how cybereality references the facts given in the article that completely refute the previous asinine statements mentioned above?
Nimisys said:
What exactly is your argument? As far as I can tell all you really want to do is piss in everyone's Wheaties. So Germans like AMD, big fucking deal. The OPs link shows in at least one country there is competition again, what's wrong with that? Doesn't diminish the quality of Intel's offerings in any way, doesn't make AMDs any better.
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And another poster that doesn't share your asinine points and sees thru your slants.
juanrga said:
When one company invests millions and million on generating jobs in a given region, there is a natural sympathy towards the products of that company. AMD has been investing huge ammounts of money on Germany, and giving jobs to lots of people. It is natural that people at Germany is more pro-AMD. The same happens in my city. There is an important car factory that gives jobs to lots of people. When check the streets you can there is lots of cars from that brand. Part of my family works or has worked in that factory, and 90% of them purchased cars from that brand.

It is not only a mere question of being thankful to the company that pay you the salary; there is also certain egoistical attitude. Purchasing cars from that company that is giving jobs in the region just improves the finances of that company and helps that company to continue giving jobs.



One thing is having sympathy towards the brand, another is behaving as a blind fanboy.

People wasn't massively purchasing in the past, because the product wasn't good enough in their eyes. Once the new product got the minimum quality level required by that people, the bias did the rest.
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This is the worst argument in the thread and one you keep perpetuating with absolutely no proof. The sales chart proves you wrong.
cybereality said:
DuronBurgerMan Ryzen is head and shoulders above what Bulldozer was, and even Bulldozer got some sales from people building on a budget. The fact that AMD now has a competitive CPU that is also affordable should directly translate into more sales. Not rocket science.
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Simple point again that has a logical basis.
SighTurtle said:
"Only" Germany? The 2nd largest population in Europe? The largest economy in Europe? 16th in population for the World, 5th economically and you go "only Germany". It's amazing how everything you have to say regarding AMD is tilted so negatively.

For example, if I were to say, "Oh, historically AMD has always had a better presence in Germany, so that's why sales are better, but we'll need to see worldwide sales to see global trends of Ryzen." It would be about the same as what you said, except I didn't shit all over AMD in the process, which you have, by down playing Germany's PC market, and by twisting the positivity of a company having a presence in a market into "Oh, it's just cause AMD is known in Germany. Not a big deal. It's bias."
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Another poster not fooled by outright lies and agendas. And perhaps JUANRGA you should take notes and accept the advice given you here, for it is good advice.
JustReason said:
If you really wanted to prove merit to your point, then you would have to show higher sales in Germany than the rest of the world, all things being equal. Based on the numbers they showed it looks legitimately reasonable as indicative of the whole world, especially when added to Amazon ratings world wide.
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Keep mind even I here posted that Amazon has been showing this selling trend as well so even as you attempt to make this seem like a one-off possibility, ALL FACTS POINT TO THE SAME CONCLUSION AS THE ARTICLE FOR WHICH THIS THREAD IS TITLED. And my point is a known fact as other articles have already been referenced in this forum as well.
juanrga said:
This is repeating the obvious whereas ignoring the point.

No one said that Zen wouldn't bring an increase in marketshare compared to where the company was before Zen launch. What is being stressed is that certain BS media is publishing sensationalist articles about Zen sales. WCCFTECH has now published this news about Germany local sales, but they published in July a sensationalist article titled "AMD Takes 10.4% CPU Share From Intel In Q2 2017 In Passmark Survey, Its Largest Quarterly Share Gain In History". The July article wasn't only based in wrong data, but once the data was corrected they no longer published a retraction of the article neither a new article with the correct data.

This is the nonsense that they published in July

AMD-Intel-Q3-2017-CPU-Market-Share.png


and the reality at time of writing this is that AMD won a 4% marketshare since Zen launch

Q4 2016: 17.80%

Q3 2017: 22.20%
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And here is where the real BULLSHIT comes in. You cant make a valid argument in support of your own asinine obvious shill point so you then bring in that Passmark sales relation that was a poor attempt a figuring marketshare which most posters HERE have already stated doesn't do any more than show some activity but in no way correlates to number of sales. Besides that look at your graph again. The steepest change is that last section. And at that point Ryzen only had 3 mths and TR hadn't even released yet (EPYC as well but I think your chart is desktop sales so not likely counting server space). Looks like not only Germany has had an impact if the change is that steep.

You own facts are working against you!!!
juanrga said:
I simply stated that:

(i) Germany is traditionally a pro-AMD country because AMD has been investing millions of euros in foundries during last decade. You can find the famous "diffused in Germany" label on AMD chips since classic 32bit Athlons to recent A10 APUs.

(ii) The source of this news, is a well-known BS place that has a long history on posting false information about AMD products and/or sales. I just mentioned how they did similar claims in the July of this year about AMD sales/marketshare, and it was all a fake.




It works both ways. You and others here also maybe want to provide proof that sales in Germany represent sales in the rest of the world, and aren't simply a local statistical anomaly.
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Sorry it doesn't work that way. You post BS claims then you have to provide the proof, that thus far you have not done.
Shintai said:
Or even sales in Germany as a whole. Mindfactory is a prime AMD retail partner and its not as big as some people think. Its not exactly a Newegg of Germany where retail shops are plentiful and everywhere.

But again if people like to fool themselves its their choice. Why stop a new hype train. Just let it derail as it always do with time.
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Where is your proof as well? You make the same BS point then you too need to prove it. Maybe show where BD outsold Intel CPUs over the years. Did they... ... ...? Got anything on that?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok so in conclusion here both of you are full of it and seem to be out of steam. Your arguments are weak or complete fantasy. Over the years I have seen the likes of your posts all over and they share a common tactic, they try to derail a thread topic to some off the wall point that has not a damn thing to do with reality or the topic at hand. You try to add THE WORLD to the subject which was never stated by anyone as a point the article was trying to make. Hell your point was given already by previous posters earlier in the thread because your tactics are obvious and they knew your rebuttal or lack thereof was coming from YOU.

Sales at an outlet show a huge increase in a particular manufacturer. That is it. The only point made. No other conclusion other than a positive based on one statistical point. But then we add in the Amazon sales list and see a number of Ryzens occupying the top 5 spots, again another statistical point. The we have the graph that you Juanrga gave us for marketshare and see a HUGE upswing not shown in any previous Q in the previous 13 years that adds yet another statistical point. All these statistical points start to paint a very clear picture of increased marketshare that likely has little to do with where any foundry was built or what company some individuals work for.

The facts thus far are pointing to a far better conclusion than you are painting.
 
Juanrga attempts to shoot down everything even remotely positive about AMD. And the fact is, a man can rationalize himself into or out of anything.

The data points we have, from sales data, to usage data, to reviewers and writers suggests that Zen is anywhere from a modest success to a major success in the markets it has been released in.

It must be an enormous amount of work for Juanrga to individually denounce every single data point. But he makes the effort nonetheless.

AMD has its share of problems. They do hype too much, that is true. I'm on record criticizing their marketing guys many times. But Zen is a good product. Their engineers delivered on that. I see no reason to expend so much effort trying to take away that success. Quite frankly, if you don't like it, don't buy it.
 
Shintai said:
Or even sales in Germany as a whole. Mindfactory is a prime AMD retail partner and its not as big as some people think. Its not exactly a Newegg of Germany where retail shops are plentiful and everywhere.
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Right. Those aren't Germany sales but only sales at Mindfactory, which doesn't even represent Germany as a whole.

Shintai said:
But again if people like to fool themselves its their choice. Why stop a new hype train. Just let it derail as it always do with time.
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There is people really likes to be fooled, but others are just victims. Personally I thanks when the more knowledgeable people helps me not to be fooled. For instance, I was fooled by the title of this thread. The wording did me to believe that Mindfactory sales represent Germany as a whole, and you helped me to see that is not the case.
 
JustReason said:
This is the first post that tries appallingly to prove some point, god only knows what. Hell the 7700k+7600k sales against all Ryzens is supposed to prove what? Looks like AMD is doing very well considering it newer and had less time to sell.
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The argument AMD "had less time to sell" doesn't apply, because his table is reporting share per month share and variation.

JustReason said:
Take note this is the very first mention of worldwide sales by anyone in the thread.
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An attempt to extrapolate the Mindfactory sales to the rest of the world is made in the link given in the OP.

JustReason said:
This is the worst argument in the thread and one you keep perpetuating with absolutely no proof. The sales chart proves you wrong.
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Not true.
 
juanrga said:
Right. Those aren't Germany sales but only sales at Mindfactory, which doesn't even represent Germany as a whole.



There is people really likes to be fooled, but others are just victims. Personally I thanks when the more knowledgeable people helps me not to be fooled. For instance, I was fooled by the title of this thread. The wording did me to believe that Mindfactory sales represent Germany as a whole, and you helped me to see that is not the case.
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AMD CPU Sales Overtake Intel For The First Time In Over A Decade At Germany’s Largest E-Tailer
So how do you make that leap? It says Germany's largest E-tailer, as in the largest ONE not all nor does it mention Germany as a whole. Maybe you leapt to a conclusion which seems to be a common occurrence.
 
juanrga said:
Lisa Su has something to say


I enjoy she mentioning fans, instead customers.
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That's one helluva nit you're trying to pick there, Juanrga. You know... maybe we should try this another way. How about you answer some questions for us?

1. Do you think the CPU market would be better if AMD ceased to exist and if Intel became an effective monopoly? If so, why do you believe this?
2. What is the market share percentage that you think is appropriate/likely for AMD & Zen in the budget, enthusiast, HEDT, and server markets, respectively?
3. Do you think AMD ever held the performance crown in the past?
4. Do you think AMD has ever made a truly competitive product?
5. Would you ever personally consider purchasing an AMD product of any kind?
 
cybereality said:
Well, you know Twitter is limited to 140 characters plus fans is more positive. Customers can kind of seem like a corporate word to use.
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The 140 limit is not the reason, because I have replaced "fans" with "customers" and twitter says it is 31 characters under the limit.

Customers is the proper word for... customers. Fan has negative connotations; as explained in the above link, fan is a shorthand for "fanatic", which is defined in the link as "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion"

Note she correctly uses the term "customers" in other tweets she has published and she also refers to "customers" in interviews in the media.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
That's one helluva nit you're trying to pick there, Juanrga. You know... maybe we should try this another way. How about you answer some questions for us?

1. Do you think the CPU market would be better if AMD ceased to exist and if Intel became an effective monopoly? If so, why do you believe this?
2. What is the market share percentage that you think is appropriate/likely for AMD & Zen in the budget, enthusiast, HEDT, and server markets, respectively?
3. Do you think AMD ever held the performance crown in the past?
4. Do you think AMD has ever made a truly competitive product?
5. Would you ever personally consider purchasing an AMD product of any kind?
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Good luck getting even one answered straight.
 
juanrga said:
The 140 limit is not the reason, because I have replaced "fans" with "customers" and twitter says it is 31 characters under the limit.

Customers is the proper word for... customers. Fan has negative connotations; as explained in the above link, fan is a shorthand for "fanatic", which is defined in the link as "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion"

Note she correctly uses the term "customers" in other tweets she has published and she also refers to "customers" in interviews in the media.
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Cant help myself but this SCREAMS "pot calling the Kettle black". And as DuronBurgerMan said "quite nitpicky". I mean seriously you are trying too hard to read into everything WAY TOO MUCH.
 
juanrga said:
The 140 limit is not the reason, because I have replaced "fans" with "customers" and twitter says it is 31 characters under the limit.
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You are being obtuse. The point cybereality was making was that because of Twitter's character limit, people are very miserly with their character count. If a shorter word will do, it is often used, irrespective of whether the maximum character limit has already been reached. Since tweets are often given less rigorous thought and proofreading than, say, an article, the usage is often inconsistent as well.

Customers is the proper word for... customers. Fan has negative connotations; as explained in the above link, fan is a shorthand for "fanatic", which is defined in the link as "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion"
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Except it doesn't. In the common tongue, fanatic possesses a negative connotation, and though fan originates from that word, it does not carry a similar amount of negativity. A "fan" of the New York Yankees does not necessarily imply anything negative.

Note she correctly uses the term "customers" in other tweets she has published and she also refers to "customers" in interviews in the media.
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You are logic chopping, and pretending to knowledge you do not possess. This is not the first time you have done this. You will take an objective fact, like the words contained in the tweet, and then make an assumption based on the tweet, and finally pass off the assumption as equally factual. You did this in an earlier thread, where you claimed a stock sale invalidated the seller's previous pro-AMD article. It is a very peculiar fallacy. I suppose it is most similar to Argument From Ignorance. But regardless of the specific type of fallacy, it certainly is one.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
You are being obtuse. The point cybereality was making was that because of Twitter's character limit, people are very miserly with their character count. If a shorter word will do, it is often used, irrespective of whether the maximum character limit has already been reached. Since tweets are often given less rigorous thought and proofreading than, say, an article, the usage is often inconsistent as well.
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And still she uses "customers" in other tweets, invalidating your attempt to pretend that they wrote "fans" but didn't really mean fans.

DuronBurgerMan said:
You did this in an earlier thread, where you claimed a stock sale invalidated the seller's previous pro-AMD article. It is a very peculiar fallacy. I suppose it is most similar to Argument From Ignorance. But regardless of the specific type of fallacy, it certainly is one.
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I simply inverted your own argument, you pretended that an analyst owning stock of AMD gave his analysis of AMD more credibility, And I demonstrated that he sold all his stock of AMD just 26 days after his analysis. It is evident that not even him believed what he wrote.
 
All Argument From Ignorance, my man.

You cannot know the things you claim to know on the basis of the supplied evidence.

It doesn't even make sense, anyway. You claim a negative connotation for the word fan. Yet if true, why would she use it? If that were the case she would be insulting her own customers deliberately.

You're going so far down into semantics and trivialities, it is absolutely ridiculous.

And the amount of effort you spend doing it is, quite frankly, rather bizarre. Do they pay you, or something?
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
All Argument From Ignorance, my man.

You cannot know the things you claim to know on the basis of the supplied evidence.

It doesn't even make sense, anyway. You claim a negative connotation for the word fan. Yet if true, why would she use it? If that were the case she would be insulting her own customers deliberately.

You're going so far down into semantics and trivialities, it is absolutely ridiculous.

And the amount of effort you spend doing it is, quite frankly, rather bizarre. Do they pay you, or something?
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Its like a job, although I serious doubt it is a paying job. I have spent years in forums and see this all the time. Slants and obfuscating points to perpetuate a goal. In general it is best to make your point then move on. They will keep on till you do something to get banned.

I agree with you it is just a tweet with nothing but positive connotation. I mean the lengths one has to go to make the word FAN a bad word is mind boggling.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
All Argument From Ignorance, my man.

You cannot know the things you claim to know on the basis of the supplied evidence.

It doesn't even make sense, anyway. You claim a negative connotation for the word fan. Yet if true, why would she use it? If that were the case she would be insulting her own customers deliberately.

You're going so far down into semantics and trivialities, it is absolutely ridiculous.

And the amount of effort you spend doing it is, quite frankly, rather bizarre. Do they pay you, or something?
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Maybe she used the term fan (instead customer) because she knows something you don't know.
 
juanrga said:
Maybe she used the term fan (instead customer) because she knows something you don't know.
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Really, enlighten us please, what does she (and I would assume you since you mention it) know? Being truly curious here, what possible injustice has this term 'Fan' made against you that you need now to facilitate extra meaning on an innocuous word? Can you show us on the doll where 'Fan' touched you?
 
quasar56 said:
You do realize the article you linked paints a positive picture for AMD vs Intel right???????!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You must only look at the negatives... Wait were there any? Said same heat as an Intel 4 core = positive. Said 30-40% better performance = positive. And uses them for an environmentally sound solution = positive. Mind blown and uncertain of the worlds future considering the poster who brought us this news. Black is white, left is right.... God help us. lol
 
JustReason said:
You must only look at the negatives... Wait were there any? Said same heat as an Intel 4 core = positive. Said 30-40% better performance = positive. And uses them for an environmentally sound solution = positive. Mind blown and uncertain of the worlds future considering the poster who brought us this news. Black is white, left is right.... God help us. lol
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Wouldn't that be Devil Help Us? :sneaky:
 
Shintai said:
Not surprised considering DIY people waiting for CFL. Not to mention the different release dates. New products always sell more than old. 7700K alone have sold around 20K units, 7600K 10K units and all Ryzen chips around 30K units.

At Mindfactory 175 TR chips have been sold compared to 1040 SKL-X. And that's an AMD retail partner.

And then there is this:
View attachment 35219

Ouch!
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More standalone garbage 300 dollar pc's with onboard intel graphics have joined steam. We can't take much from Steam data without a lot more detail on that data.
 
Last ~2 weeks all Ryzen and 7700K+7600K have sold about 1000 units on each side at Mindfactory. So fast things change when the current Ryzen market is close to saturated and the CFL market is about to open. SKL-X also easily outsold TR in the same timeframe.
 
Vader1975 said:
Still not a good location for information on this. Steam data is very iffy as it randomly requests and submits reports and many of us reinstall or change things and steam thinks its a new system.
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This thread is based in selective counting sales on mindfactory made by an redditor user. This user has reported strange issues on the mindfactory reports such as

 
A different look at mindfactory sales

DJ86sGc.png


One can see that the huge increase in AMD sales (+4100) is not made at the expense of Intel sales (-1800). This means that most people that is now purchasing AMD wasn't purchasing Intel before. Aka those sales correspond to AMD fans. This also agrees with Lusa Su tweet giving thanks to "fans", not customers.
 
I hope AMD keeps the momentum going to keep Intel on it's toes. Though price/performance is in AMD's favor it seems to me.
 
pendragon1 said:
do you get the point I'm trying to make? you cant just post unidentifiable images that anybody could whip up in a few minutes.
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If it support his BS reasons, he will. Fake news is the new thing now. Make bullshit up to push your agenda. You guys need to ignore him. Him and Shittytai both. Makes the forums much more readable.
 
juanrga said:
A different look at mindfactory sales

DJ86sGc.png


One can see that the huge increase in AMD sales (+4100) is not made at the expense of Intel sales (-1800). This means that most people that is now purchasing AMD wasn't purchasing Intel before. Aka those sales correspond to AMD fans. This also agrees with Lusa Su tweet giving thanks to "fans", not customers.
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Uhm, take a look. Around march/april (the launch of Ryzen) Intel took a plunge and AMD gained. Do you even graph?
 
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KazeoHin said:
Uhm, take a look. Around march/april (the launch of Ryzen) Intel took a plunge and AMD gained. Do you even graph?
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What part of "the huge increase in AMD sales (+4100) is not made at the expense of Intel sales (-1800)" is not understood still?

There is also an unexplained drop in Intel sales that spans from Apr to June. It cannot be explained by AMD sales, which remain practically constant in the same period.
 
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