ASRock: Coffee Lake CPUs Not Compatible with Z270 Motherboards

Megalith

Megalith

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Intel’s LGA1151 socket may not support the company’s next-gen Coffee Lake CPUs: the tweet has since been taken down, but ASRock claimed that the upcoming six-core lineup will not be compatible with 200-series motherboards.

...Intel's Coffee Lake six-core CPUs, which are the company's successors to its current Skylake CPUs, will not be compatible with current motherboards. Despite rumors of a possible trio of six-core CPUs using the same LGA1151 socket as current Skylake CPUs such as the Core i5-7600K, the likes of the supposed Core i7-8700K will not work in current Z270 chipset motherboards. This is according to motherboard manufacturer ASRock, which replied to a Tweet on Twitter regarding Coffee Lake compatibility with one of the company's most recent motherboards.
 
I almost wondered why this is news. Intel always forces a new chipset out of greed. It's like saying the sky is blue.
 
So much for my next upgrade being Intel-based. If I have to buy a new mobo anyway, I am going with an AMD Threadripper setup next time around. I doubt It will cost me any more than a CL setup.

AMD is finally really competing if they can win a hardcore Intel guy like me away.
 
Aww. Guy at work has core envy after seeing my 1700. This has him following TR closely. He was hoping for a 6core drop in on his 1151 set up. NOPE.

He may cave and flip to AMD after hearing this.

Of course SL or KL i7s are still fine but he won't listen. The core war is in full swing!
 
Tired of Intel pulling this crap, not that I have any use for yet more cores.
 
Vader1975 said:
I almost wondered why this is news. Intel always forces a new chipset out of greed. It's like saying the sky is blue.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's greed, I think it's just adding new features and support. People want higher bus speeds, more lanes, more USB 3.1 Gen XYZ ports, etc, etc. Intel is always moving around the VRM and other regulator bits, changing voltages and clock requirements, etc. You can't maintain compatibility if you want peak performance. There's only so much you can improve on the CPU if you're restricted to the existing interface only.

Think of it this way too...if Intel came out with new CPU Core-X, and it would technically WORK in the last-gen MBs, but only at 80% of the speed due to VRM and clock changes, and 3 of the 5 new features would be disabled, people would be PISSED. They'd be up in arms about their CPU being "gimped".

If it IS pure greed, then remember don't just blame Intel. ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte and Asrock all have a whole lot of interest in you buying a new motherboard every couple years. They have a lot more interest in that than Intel does. Intel only makes a tiny fraction of the cost of the MB on the new chipset. The MB manufacturers on the other hand...that's their bread and butter.
 
Megalith said:
Intel’s LGA1151 socket may not support the company’s next-gen Coffee Lake CPUs: the tweet has since been taken down, but ASRock claimed that the upcoming six-core lineup will not be compatible with 200-series motherboards.

...Intel's Coffee Lake six-core CPUs, which are the company's successors to its current Skylake CPUs, will not be compatible with current motherboards. Despite rumors of a possible trio of six-core CPUs using the same LGA1151 socket as current Skylake CPUs such as the Core i5-7600K, the likes of the supposed Core i7-8700K will not work in current Z270 chipset motherboards. This is according to motherboard manufacturer ASRock, which replied to a Tweet on Twitter regarding Coffee Lake compatibility with one of the company's most recent motherboards.
Click to expand...


I can confirm that this info is correct. Coffee Lake will not work on existing chipsets. There will be 6 chipsets in total.
 
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Lets wait until people see what is different, there may be valid non-money grabbing reasons for it. Then again it may just be Intel saying FU. Either way my next system will likely be AM4.
 
Bandalo said:
I don't think it's greed, I think it's just adding new features and support. People want higher bus speeds, more lanes, more USB 3.1 Gen XYZ ports, etc, etc. Intel is always moving around the VRM and other regulator bits, changing voltages and clock requirements, etc. You can't maintain compatibility if you want peak performance. There's only so much you can improve on the CPU if you're restricted to the existing interface only.

Think of it this way too...if Intel came out with new CPU Core-X, and it would technically WORK in the last-gen MBs, but only at 80% of the speed due to VRM and clock changes, and 3 of the 5 new features would be disabled, people would be PISSED. They'd be up in arms about their CPU being "gimped".

If it IS pure greed, then remember don't just blame Intel. ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte and Asrock all have a whole lot of interest in you buying a new motherboard every couple years. They have a lot more interest in that than Intel does. Intel only makes a tiny fraction of the cost of the MB on the new chipset. The MB manufacturers on the other hand...that's their bread and butter.
Click to expand...

and still Intel can put a 7700k on HEDT if they want to
and there you not only have to manage vrm and pci-e lanes, but also quad to dual channel, on top of actually a lot more pins

also new features

well that seems to come with cannon lake chipsets

the ones later this year are said to be Kabylake Refresh PCH (Z370)

or in other words a Z270 rebranded

https://translate.googleusercontent...psatz/&usg=ALkJrhiBZt_kV0pRRN_vchv8AGCeEOvrZg

Google translate of

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/coffee-lake-z370-300-series-chipsatz/

The fact that the Z370 is an "old iron" is also demonstrated by the comparison of the I / O functions. While the Z370 only provides " USB 3.1 Gen 1" with 5 Gbit / s and thus effectively USB 3.0, the "CNL PCH" (CNL stands for Cannon Lake ) can boast real USB 3.1 (Gen 2 with 10 Gbit / s). Coffee Lake comes thus for the refreshed KBL-PCH and for the new CNL-PCH
Click to expand...


or here with some pics
https://videocardz.com/71660/intel-coffee-lake-architecture-brings-6-core-at-95w-tdp
 
Peter2k said:
and still Intel can put a 7700k on HEDT if they want to
and there you not only have to manage vrm and pci-e lanes, but also quad to dual channel, on top of actually a lot more pins

also new features

well that seems to come with cannon lake chipsets

the ones later this year are said to be Kabylake Refresh PCH (Z370)

or in other words a Z270 rebranded

https://translate.googleusercontent...psatz/&usg=ALkJrhiBZt_kV0pRRN_vchv8AGCeEOvrZg

Google translate of

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/coffee-lake-z370-300-series-chipsatz/




or here with some pics
https://videocardz.com/71660/intel-coffee-lake-architecture-brings-6-core-at-95w-tdp
Click to expand...

Well, Intel CAN do a lot of things, but it's a question of both cost and justification. When designing the CPU, they may realize they CAN make it work with older and newer chipsets. But it's going to make the chip far more complex, say needing two different VRMs, or one multi-mode VRM, or an on-chip adapter for the USB type, or some other components. And all that extra "stuff" is going to require additional testing to make sure it works on old and new chipsets, and the extra "stuff" may even limit what the chip can do on the newest chipset. So now you're faced with more cost per-CPU to retain the backwards compatibility, and possibly even limiting the performance of your new CPU.

Should they work to retain the backwards compatibility, or should they focus on the best performance and price per CPU?

Again, I'm sure MB manufacturers pressure Intel to upgrade chipsets too. Intel makes a hell of a lot more on CPUs than they do on the chipset components. If they make a backwards compatible CPU, then Intel still makes money selling you the CPU, but the MB makers lose out big time.
 
Bandalo said:
Well, Intel CAN do a lot of things, but it's a question of both cost and justification. When designing the CPU, they may realize they CAN make it work with older and newer chipsets. But it's going to make the chip far more complex, say needing two different VRMs, or one multi-mode VRM, or an on-chip adapter for the USB type, or some other components. And all that extra "stuff" is going to require additional testing to make sure it works on old and new chipsets, and the extra "stuff" may even limit what the chip can do on the newest chipset. So now you're faced with more cost per-CPU to retain the backwards compatibility, and possibly even limiting the performance of your new CPU.

Should they work to retain the backwards compatibility, or should they focus on the best performance and price per CPU?

Again, I'm sure MB manufacturers pressure Intel to upgrade chipsets too. Intel makes a hell of a lot more on CPUs than they do on the chipset components. If they make a backwards compatible CPU, then Intel still makes money selling you the CPU, but the MB makers lose out big time.
Click to expand...

I basically wanted to highlight that

a:
Intel can if they want to
even on a platform that was never meant to house a normal gaming CPU

b:
that the "new" z370 is a rebranded z270
which from a feature and performance advancement is already laking compared to a z170

and c:
only the newer cannon lake PCH will offer better USB 3.1 speeds and newer Bluetooth gen
which isn't worth another 350$ upgrade on a board

and that's about 3 new chipsets with only the slightest feature advancements and no performance enhancements at all

all for the same CPU architecture, just on a more mature manufacturing process with each generation


I'd also think that the underdog in all this (AMD) would have to play more ball with the likes of Asus and Gigabyte than allmighty Intel

and yet it's AMD that can keep a platform alive for a while
and the juggernaut in the CPU space is changing sockets/chipsets like it's a requirement somehow
 
Bleh, got the itch and went from a 2600k/z68 to 6600k/z170 recently. Should have gone ryzen
 
Peter2k said:
I basically wanted to highlight that

a:
Intel can if they want to
even on a platform that was never meant to house a normal gaming CPU

b:
that the "new" z370 is a rebranded z270
which from a feature and performance advancement is already laking compared to a z170

and c:
only the newer cannon lake PCH will offer better USB 3.1 speeds and newer Bluetooth gen
which isn't worth another 350$ upgrade on a board

and that's about 3 new chipsets with only the slightest feature advancements and no performance enhancements at all

all for the same CPU architecture, just on a more mature manufacturing process with each generation


I'd also think that the underdog in all this (AMD) would have to play more ball with the likes of Asus and Gigabyte than allmighty Intel

and yet it's AMD that can keep a platform alive for a while
and the juggernaut in the CPU space is changing sockets/chipsets like it's a requirement somehow
Click to expand...

They "can if they want to" isn't true...Engineering wise, it may be technically possible. There may also be technical reasons NOT to do it as well. Not even bringing up the cost and performance reasons I mentioned.

Z270 was a slightly upgraded Z170, but they were backwards compatible to my knowledge. I haven't seen anything official on the Z370 yet, so it may be the case there as well. If it is, my point is moot.

The "underdog" here may be willing to make more deals, but Intel owns the majority of the market for now, so their opinion carries more weight. MB manufactures want people to upgrade their platform all the time. Annually if they can. Intel / AMD will sell CPUs either way, so they likely have other motivations for changing the chipset and socket.
 
For some reason Intel thinks it can still get away with this baloney. It seems that they have not really got the memo about the very real threat that AMD is making against its near monopoly of the desktop.

Intel system owners are getting tired of this crap and now see there is a real and viable alternative. So much so that many of these will not be considering their too-little, too-late response to AMD and its new contenders.

The competition over next year or two will be very, very interesting and we will be the winners.
 
My Z270 Hero board is currently waiting for a BIOS update to fix the 7700K hyperthreading issues. There's a beta out there, but the board hasn't seen an update since March.. and it's got plenty of things that could use some work. I'm definitely not feeling any more Asus in my near future, and likely not Intel either.
 
brentsg said:
My Z270 Hero board is currently waiting for a BIOS update to fix the 7700K hyperthreading issues. There's a beta out there, but the board hasn't seen an update since March.. and it's got plenty of things that could use some work. I'm definitely not feeling any more Asus in my near future, and likely not Intel either.
Click to expand...

Ryzen for example have a long list of unfixed issues. Including opcache and SMT.

The lack of BIOS update is why I would like to see MS much more aggressive on microcode distribution like Linux. We simply cant expect mobo makers to offer the support because its not really in their interest.
 
chenw said:
Did anyone actually expect they would?
Click to expand...
No, with Microsoft and all manufacturers, they have a few sayings. "It's good to be the King!" "We can justify anything at any time". Look to be updating hardware and software in nanoseconds in the near future.
 
I think the main issue is that Z270 is going to end up with a 6-7 month shelf life. We're basically moving on before the bugs have even been somewhat ironed out.
 
triwolf said:
No, with Microsoft and all manufacturers, they have a few sayings. "It's good to be the King!" "We can justify anything at any time". Look to be updating hardware and software in nanoseconds in the near future.
Click to expand...

And this has what do to with Microsoft? (Answer: NOTHING!) Intel has screwed the pooch here just as always but hey, people will buy it anyways and therefore, they will continue doing it.
 
ManofGod said:
And this has what do to with Microsoft? (Answer: NOTHING!) Intel has screwed the pooch here just as always but hey, people will buy it anyways and therefore, they will continue doing it.
Click to expand...
Both intel and MS screw people whenever they can. Remember, MS dropping support for atom chips? MS and intel have been in cahoots since the early days. They are always trying to get you to buy new hardware or a new license. Come on, it's common knowledge.
 
Eh, doesn't bother me overmuch. I tend to build a computer every half decade. I'm still sporting a third gen i5 with a Samsung EVO and it's as fast as I need it to be. I don't upgrade fast enough to care about drop-in compatibility.
 
Bandalo said:
I don't think it's greed, I think it's just adding new features and support. People want higher bus speeds, more lanes, more USB 3.1 Gen XYZ ports, etc, etc. Intel is always moving around the VRM and other regulator bits, changing voltages and clock requirements, etc. You can't maintain compatibility if you want peak performance. There's only so much you can improve on the CPU if you're restricted to the existing interface only.

Think of it this way too...if Intel came out with new CPU Core-X, and it would technically WORK in the last-gen MBs, but only at 80% of the speed due to VRM and clock changes, and 3 of the 5 new features would be disabled, people would be PISSED. They'd be up in arms about their CPU being "gimped".

If it IS pure greed, then remember don't just blame Intel. ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte and Asrock all have a whole lot of interest in you buying a new motherboard every couple years. They have a lot more interest in that than Intel does. Intel only makes a tiny fraction of the cost of the MB on the new chipset. The MB manufacturers on the other hand...that's their bread and butter.
Click to expand...

This hasn't always happened. There have been downgrades between chipsets as well. Funny how that happens.
 
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