Chevrolet Beats Tesla in Consumer Reports EV Range Test

Vaulter98c said:
And the biggest negative for me, where are the damn trucks? My new RAM 1500 gets like 24-26 on the highway and I average about 20+ combined, you would think this tech would have started with semi's where you have the room for more batteries and the such, but until there is an EV truck it's not even worth me reading the articles
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I'm still waiting for this kinda stuff to fall in line with what a traditional ICE truck would cost, also for it to be readily available to consumers... I imagine as on-board power storage and charging abilities improve, the need for the on-board power generation could naturally dissipate... Or become optional, or whatever...

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Basically a truck version of the Volt...

volt-powertrain.jpg


Though I'm curious to see what Tesla comes up with, VIA is the only thing compelling to me in the EV arena, even though it's technically a hybrid... I'd argue that it's a correctly designed transitional hybrid, in that the power train is technically full electric by design... Just remove the generator when battery/charging tech "gets there," wherever the sweet spot for there is... Plus the general benefits from having an all electric drive system... Instant torque being my favorite... Even my tiny ass 500e gives you that roller coaster launch feeling...

I also like the Regera hybrid system... Just because.

Koenigsegg_Regera_Powertrain.jpg
 
Megalith said:
Consumer Reports pitted a Chevy Bolt vs a Tesla Model S 75D and found that the latter ran out of juice at 235 miles, while the Bolt motored on for another 15 miles: I guess the point is that the Chevy is a nice value, being that the 75D costs $74,500, and the Bolt $36,620. Tesla’s Model S 100D is probably the true range champion, yet it is nearly $100K.

CR’s electric-vehicle range test involves some mixed driving, but much of it is done by driving a constant 65 mph on a highway. If you were to meander on country roads at 45 mph, you might get even more range. To ensure repeatability, the CR tests are done with the air conditioning and heater off. Hard acceleration and running the HVAC system can cut the range significantly, as can driving in very cold temperatures.
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It's slightly more expensive than a comparable model 3. And to get faster charging that's like a $1200 option (if I remember correctly) And that faster charging is only Tier 2. It doesn't even approach tesla's tier 3 charge rates. That said Chevy's battery packs seem to be more long term reliable than the Tesla's and Nissans.
 
MikeTrike said:
I'm still waiting for this kinda stuff to fall in line with what a traditional ICE truck would cost, also for it to be readily available to consumers... I imagine as on-board power storage and charging abilities improve, the need for the on-board power generation could naturally dissipate... Or become optional, or whatever...

View attachment 32375

Basically a truck version of the Volt...
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ICE's are basically the most inefficient form of generating electricity. Turbines are much more efficient and their durability has gone up and noise & size down. I hypothesized about using turbines in hybrid setups for years. Yes Yes I know turbines were abandoned in the 60's because they were slow to deliver power. However with a battery backup, spool up/down times are nothing to worry about.

One of the founders of Tesla is converting rigs to use turbines and electric motors.

 
Good. Tesla sucks. All hype and paid for with my dime. Not that Government Motors is any better.
 
This seems like marketing material. The Tesla is a full size sedan with 69 cubic feet of interior space. The Bolt is just a fraction of that. So smaller/lighter require less energy to move. Well, you don't say. Thanks for reminding me about 3rd grade science.
 
nightanole said:
I wonder what magic they are using. Laptop batteries dont last much more than 5 years (way below 80% charge). Cell phones need battery replacements, and they are only a few years old. I work constantly with 18650's(panasonic 2200mah from licensed pack makers) a work, and if the device is from 2005-2009, i dont even bother testing them, since i know they will be well be low my 85% mark for replacement. And we baby our batteries, we send them out at 40% charge, and refurbish the device every year.
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I'm guessing it's probably that laptop/cellphone makers don't have to worry about wearing out the batteries as much, they probably design them with a specific "end of life" target in mind and call it a day, so why go through extensive temperature controls and wear leveling etc on a semi-disposable phone. Cost savings, planned obsolescence and all that.

You can get away with cutting corners on relatively cheap electronics I guess, might even be a good thing for their business model, but not as much in cars. I think Nissan with their first gen Leafs had a somewhat similar mindset initially - skimping on temperature management to save costs - but they seem to have matured with their newer models in this area.

I'm more curious about how Tesla were able to slash literally about one ton off the weight of the vehicle at such range figures - on top of switching to steel parts instead of aluminum.

That motor must be hella efficient and/or the battery density must have gone up quite a bit for them recently, that's nuts in such a relatively short time if so.
 
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travisty said:
I've only had three cars to this point myself - a truck for a few years, a prius for about 8 then the leaf. For my parents though... Had a '95 ford explorer. Every 50k miles - happened at 50k, 100k, and 150k - the transmission died. Had to replace the whole thing.
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That's a Ford problem.

I also had a 95 Ford Explorer, and it had more problems (like 2-3 times more) than my previous 3 cars combined.
In my case the transmission went out at 29k and 58k. It had 92k on it when I sold it, and I could tell the transmission was starting to feel funny again.
The engine was replaced at 5k :eek:, along with numerous small items over the 10 years I owned it..
It had the heavy duty suspension and the transmission cooler (meant for towing), but I never towed anything. It was just me in the car, driving to/from work 90% of the time.
The extended warranty I bought on the Explorer was one of my best investments I ever made :D

This was also the only American branded/built car I've ever bought. Never again.
My last 3 cars have been Toyotas and I didn't even bother buying an extended warranty, and I haven't needed one.
 
EODetroit said:
Yes. Apparently its common in Europe, but less so in the US. The problem isn't the charging interface, its the availability of fast charging stations. Only Tesla has any (which are proprietary). Only Tesla has vehicles that can accept fast charging (every Tesla other than the Roadster). So this Bolt can run 15 more miles, but it'll have to wait many hours before it can go that far again. The Tesla can do it again in about an hour, or get enough range to go about 80% as far again in about half that time.

In any reasonable timeframe, for trips above the rated range of the vehicle, Tesla is the only electric option and it isn't even close. This article describes a corner case.
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It seems to me the comparison of fast charges is rather trivial. At any given time you are unlikely to require the use of a fast charger so whats the point? Tesla owners charge their cars overnight at home just like a bolt or any other EV user would. Fast chargers only seem ideal if you are traveling cross country (which requires very careful planning since there arent that many fast chargers along your route) or for lazy owners who never charge their cars properly at home and suddenly find themselves in dire straits in their own city.
 
travisty said:
EV's are much cheaper maint wise.

How many times I've taken my Nissan Leaf into the dealership over the last 6 years/60k miles?
1

How much I've spent?
$50

Brake fluid refresh or whatever was all that's been needed.

If i was still in my Prius i would have taken the car probably around 15 times for oil changes. I honestly don't remember what that cost, i want to say around $50 each time since they had changed to synthetic.
I'd probably have gotten the brake fluids flushed too so ~$800 saved and no driving to the dealership and waiting an hour or more.
No driving to the gas station either which is nice. Saved at least $4500 on gas during that time too. Have solar on my roof so electricity is basically free (after the solar panel investment sure). $12,500 in tax credits. The leaf ended up, over the last 6 years costing me a net about $14,500.

Back to the subject though, ICE vehicles will cost a lot more over their life - ICE and transmissions have a lot of moving parts that do break - heck an ICE + transmission probably have more individual parts than the entire Model 3 has. EV's are much simpler mechanically speaking, just a battery, a motor, and (depending on the car) a set of static gears - the only moving parts are the motor's shaft, a set of static gears, and the car's axle.
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So because you have had several shitty cars, that must apply to ask ice vehicles? Great logic...

I just ticked over 100k miles on my Nissan rogue. I've had 10 oil changes at $16 a pop because I do it myself instead of paying the stealership and use oil that is rated in my car for 10k miles. And exactly zero other problems. I also live in upstate NY so I deal with long winters, sub zero temperatures and 92" annual average snowfall. Oh and I get nearly 400 miles on a tank and fillups take me minutes. Time is valuable for me. I can't afford a car that is twice as expensive, has awful range and even worse sub zero temperature performance.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
So because you have had several shitty cars, that must apply to ask ice vehicles? Great logic...

I just ticked over 100k miles on my Nissan rogue. I've had 10 oil changes at $16 a pop because I do it myself instead of paying the stealership and use oil that is rated in my car for 10k miles. And exactly zero other problems. I also live in upstate NY so I deal with long winters, sub zero temperatures and 92" annual average snowfall. Oh and I get nearly 400 miles on a tank and fillups take me minutes. Time is valuable for me. I can't afford a car that is twice as expensive, has awful range and even worse sub zero temperature performance.
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How in the world do you get oil and a filter for $16?!?!
 
kac77 said:
How in the world do you get oil and a filter for $16?!?!
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In the same planet where all ICE engine/transmissions are so simple and super reliable.
Or it could be 99c cent sludge garbage oil too I guess.
 
Last time i did my own oil change cost me $37 (bought 6qts of non synthetic oil and filter from autozone), mean while my dealership does it for $21 and washes my car...
 
Why do you think ICE are complicated? Have you actually been inside a combustion engine? I've rebuilt a Dodge 318, Toyota 22R, SR5, a couple Geo Metro engines, a handful of VW engines, and a BMW M20 and M50. They aren't that complicated and while they technically have "moving parts" inside them it's a bit strange to count a piston with a ring on it connected to a rod and crank as some sort of jigsaw puzzle that blows open like a box of springs when you take the head off! The heads have arguably become much more intricate and complex but at the same time much more precise and reliable.

If you overheat or run the drivetrain without lubrication you'll be looking at catastrophic failure regardless of whether it's combustion or electricity but other than wear after 100's of thousands of miles the number of parts is completely irrelevant to the reliability of the system.


I just bought a gallon of Synthetic Rotella T6 for my 98 VW Diesel and a Mann oil filter. The cost was $30 bucks delivered from Amazon. You can pick the stuff up at Walmart--the oil was $20.
 
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mope54 said:
Why do you think ICE are complicated? Have you actually been inside a combustion engine? I've rebuilt a Dodge 318, Toyota 22R, SR5, a couple Geo Metro engines, a handful of VW engines, and a BMW M20 and M50. They aren't that complicated and while they technically have "moving parts" inside them it's a bit strange to count a piston with a ring on it connected to a rod and crank as some sort of jigsaw puzzle that blows open like a box of springs when you take the head off! The heads have arguably become much more intricate and complex but at the same time much more precise and reliable.

If you overheat or run the drivetrain without lubrication you'll be looking at catastrophic failure regardless of whether it's combustion or electricity but other than wear after 100's of thousands of miles the number of parts is completely irrelevant to the reliability of the system.


I just bought 5 liters of Synthetic Rotella T6 for my 98 VW Diesel and a Mann oil filter. The cost was $30 bucks delivered from Amazon. You can pick the stuff up at Walmart--the oil was $20.
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Its very easy to think that when compared to an electric drivetrain. No crank sensors, no o2 sensors, no emission equipment, no planetary gear set, no headgaskets, no torque converter, no vacuum leaks to worry about. The list could go on and on. I have a 15 dodge charger R/T and a 12 volt. In the last 5000 miles the charger has cost me $572 in gas, the Volt $163 and around $45 in electric. Its a $350 savings EST easy. We use the volt to commute to and from work, the charger to go places as a family of 5. I bought the volt for my wife, but really shocked how much even I like it
 
Randomly rattling off parts from a car doesn't sound like a knowledgable list to someone who actually turns a wrench. Maybe you're listing things that have had to be replaced sometime in your lifetime or something that you hear someone else having to replace. But if you replaced it, you did it once. A crank sensor, O2 sensor, and vacuum tubes aren't even moving parts, FYI. The likelihood of an electronic motor going out is much higher than a crank sensor taking a shit on you. A planetary gearset is one of the worst examples. Do you know what that is? It's moving in a technical sense but not in the way that would induce a gear to break. It's not like moving around where parts are coming into contact back and forth repeatedly. What do you envision would go wrong with a planetary gearset as long as it's lubricated and operated within the correct temperature range?

I have an electric Golf and I've "saved" $900 dollars of fuel since we've owned it...but it cost over $10K more than a diesel or gas Golf so it's going to take me over a decade to realize any actual savings so I very much doubt you have actually saved $350 dollars with your Volt at this point of owning it.

I *enjoy* the drive characteristics of the electric Golf but I don't delude myself into believing that I'm saving money by owning it.
 
travisty said:
Let's ignore, though, that Chevy Bolt has very few fast charging stations throughout the US or even the world - it uses a SAE standard plug which is still new. It's not compatible with chademo fast charging which Nissan's been pushing and is much more plateful (still far behind Tesla's though). It's also not compatible with Tesla's continually expanding fast charging network https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

In the end the Model S was (and still is) a more expensive car to finance the build out of infrastructure and to fund the Model 3.

Disclaimer: I was 17th in line in Colorado to get a Model 3 so I am biased. I did consider the Bolt but after sitting in one it was a huge NO. I didn't know seats could be so bad.

Edit: In either case they're both EV's so it's still a win/win no matter which one people buy
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How comfortable were the Model 3 seats when you sat in them?
 
SomeoneElse said:
Still won't buy a bolt. When I buy a car I buy based on my preferences, not because it drove 15 more miles. The bolt is just another EV that has design in ugly (IMO) and is a small vehicle. Pit it against the model 3 which is at the comparable price range.
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Actually it is. If you want any sort of decent model 3 you are looking at 60K.
 
nightanole said:
I wonder what magic they are using. Laptop batteries dont last much more than 5 years (way below 80% charge). Cell phones need battery replacements, and they are only a few years old. I work constantly with 18650's(panasonic 2200mah from licensed pack makers) a work, and if the device is from 2005-2009, i dont even bother testing them, since i know they will be well be low my 85% mark for replacement. And we baby our batteries, we send them out at 40% charge, and refurbish the device every year.
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http://newscenter.lbl.gov/2013/12/17/roots-of-the-lithium-battery/?_sm_byp=iVVFj7WS4FrbFbL5

Dendrites has been a long a problem to deal with. However they have found ways to help mitigate the formation of dendrites by not draining the battery below a certain %, and maintaining temperature, and charging algorithms. I could say more but...you get the idea.
 
Verge said:
Actually it is. If you want any sort of decent model 3 you are looking at 60K.
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That's a sucky thing about Teslas is the base models have somewhat interesting price points but yeah like anyone buys the base model.. And every checkbox on the Teslas is several thousand dollars extra.
 
mope54 said:
Why do you think ICE are complicated? Have you actually been inside a combustion engine? I've rebuilt a Dodge 318, Toyota 22R, SR5, a couple Geo Metro engines, a handful of VW engines, and a BMW M20 and M50. They aren't that complicated and while they technically have "moving parts" inside them it's a bit strange to count a piston with a ring on it connected to a rod and crank as some sort of jigsaw puzzle
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It's not so much that, but car companies have made them harder to maintain. I spent 4 hours searching the internet and disassembling my car to replace a corner marker lamp...I removed the wheel well liner to reach it from behind. I remove the engine cowl and radiator cowl and the front grill to try to slide the lamp assembly out. IT TOOK FOUR HOURS to discover I couldn't reach it no matter how hard I tried. I took it to the dealership and they said they had to take off the front bumper to access it. $16. I wanted to shoot the engineer in charge of that decision.
 
Your complaint against your car doesn't have anything to do with the drivetrain.

Besides the fact that changing a bulb in a Tesla might be as difficult, less difficult, or more difficult than whatever car you were struggling with, there will be 0 (zero) user serviceable parts on a Tesla drivetrain so that argument actually works against the point trying to be made.

Anyway, $16 bucks is pretty damn cheap to pay someone to remove the bumper, replace a light bulb, and put the bumper back on. I know you make more than $4 bucks per hour and would be surprised if you didn't make more than $16 bucks per hour. How many times have you run into that issue? $10,000 dollars buys you a ton of $16 dollar light bulb changes.
 
mope54 said:
Your complaint against your car doesn't have anything to do with the drivetrain.

Besides the fact that changing a bulb in a Tesla might be as difficult, less difficult, or more difficult than whatever car you were struggling with, there will be 0 (zero) user serviceable parts on a Tesla drivetrain so that argument actually works against the point trying to be made.

Anyway, $16 bucks is pretty damn cheap to pay someone to remove the bumper, replace a light bulb, and put the bumper back on. I know you make more than $4 bucks per hour and would be surprised if you didn't make more than $16 bucks per hour. How many times have you run into that issue? $10,000 dollars buys you a ton of $16 dollar light bulb changes.
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That wasn't the point.

This was the engine on a 72 Stingray. This is about as complicated as it got back then. Everything is in easy reach and clear to it's function.


The bottom is a 2015 Taurus. It's shoe horned in. I can't even see the back spark plugs.

You have to admit working on today's cars is a lot harder. There's more electronics, more options, more sensors. The battery on this sucker is held in place by both standard and metric heads. Even the positive battery terminal cable has a small circuit on it. To even get to the radiator it takes a ton of screw removals for the engine cowl. Even then you have a lot less space inside the compartment to work in.

I'm an astrospace engineer and yes I hauled my motor out of my C6. But it's not something I want to repeat...EVER.
 
Yes, I've already agreed that modern cars have more complexity to them than one from 30-40 years ago. But I also pointed out that you don't have to do anything to them to drive them like you did 30-40 years ago.

I already pointed out I don't miss carbs one bit. If you think that '72 Stingray was "less complicated" to work on than a 2015 Taurus you weren't alive and wrenching on them at the time. Yes, you could get your hands in there...but you *had* to have your hands in there pretty much every weekend and whenever the weather changed.

I'll be those Taurus plugs don't have to be changed but once every 100K--something like ten years. And this might surprise you, but I don't need to see a plug to change it, that's what extensions and swivels are for. The plugs themselves probably cost $20 dollars total. If it bothers you enough, take it to a mechanic and pay $60-100 dollars to have them do it for you. That's about $10 per year.

The Tesla doesn't have any sparkplugs. That's cool, but neither does my diesel and the Tesla is even less serviceable *when* something breaks. If you mess up you can literally kill yourself with the electrical system. Lets pretend that the Tesla will never need a replacement part. How many billions of miles will you have to drive to make up that spark plug replacement cost? 30 billion.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
You have to admit working on today's cars is a lot harder. There's more electronics, more options, more sensors. The battery on this sucker is held in place by both standard and metric heads. Even the positive battery terminal cable has a small circuit on it. To even get to the radiator it takes a ton of screw removals for the engine cowl. Even then you have a lot less space inside the compartment to work in.

I'm an astrospace engineer and yes I hauled my motor out of my C6. But it's not something I want to repeat...EVER.
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Car design has evolved and progressed this way to due to emissions and crash standards something which the makers of your 72' Stingray didn't have to deal with. I'd rather go thru a crash in the Taurus than that old Vette. You want easy to work on? Try a Subaru Impreza or any wrc derived line, which was designed for in field service work. See in the WRC, there are no garages as races are in stages on location thru country. And that means no hauling it back to the shop and all work has to be done between travel to stages usually in a parking lot or literally in a field. Its common to swap motors in less than 3 hours. Hell you can drop a production stock motor in about an hour.
 
Outside of bragging rights I don't see any reason to buy an EV yet. Even compared to comfortable ICE cars you're decades away from seeing any real "savings" in fuel costs, and for what? Impressive acceleration and the chance to look smug - even more smug than a Toyota pious driver? Is the driving experience that much more satisfying when compared to a similarly priced car with an ICE?

Either prices need to drop (drastically) or range needs to go up (WAY up) before I'll be interested in an electric vehicle. And by WAY up I'm talking 800 mi per charge OR the ability to charge in 5 minutes with a network of charging stations nation-wide with plenty of overlap. Even if I had enough disposable income to buy a car used exclusively for tooling around town, there's no real reason to choose a tesla (let alone some horrid leaf or bolt) over any ICE car in the same price range.
 
capt_cope said:
Outside of bragging rights I don't see any reason to buy an EV yet. Even compared to comfortable ICE cars you're decades away from seeing any real "savings" in fuel costs, and for what? Impressive acceleration and the chance to look smug - even more smug than a Toyota pious driver? Is the driving experience that much more satisfying when compared to a similarly priced car with an ICE?

Either prices need to drop (drastically) or range needs to go up (WAY up) before I'll be interested in an electric vehicle. And by WAY up I'm talking 800 mi per charge OR the ability to charge in 5 minutes with a network of charging stations nation-wide with plenty of overlap. Even if I had enough disposable income to buy a car used exclusively for tooling around town, there's no real reason to choose a tesla (let alone some horrid leaf or bolt) over any ICE car in the same price range.
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It will be a long, long time. These mile ranges they are publishing only work in southern california, where no one has air conditioning or heaters.

Try to get anything close to that range on a wintry day in Minnesota. Lots of ams to run a heater, pretty sure they have to run a secondary heater to heat up the batteries as well right?
 
Verge said:
Actually it is. If you want any sort of decent model 3 you are looking at 60K.
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If you want a decent Bolt your looking at 43K, still can't compare a luxury sedan EV vs a compact EV. Not the same....
 
kac77 said:
How in the world do you get oil and a filter for $16?!?!
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You buy the cheapest oil on the shelf. We have a palce here called Farm and Fleet and they have their own branded oil for like 3.99 per qrt. My Wife's Van takes 5 qrts so its $20 but a $2 filter so $22 is more like it. Now if i bought oil for my car i put Mobile 1 synthetic oil but i wait until i get the rebate price and can change the oil for my car for around $30. Depends on the quality oil you want really. You can go as high or as low as you want. Not that i really trust the $2 qrts of oil.....but to each his own I guess.
 
SomeoneElse said:
You buy the cheapest oil on the shelf. We have a palce here called Farm and Fleet and they have their own branded oil for like 3.99 per qrt. My Wife's Van takes 5 qrts so its $20 but a $2 filter so $22 is more like it. Now if i bought oil for my car i put Mobile 1 synthetic oil but i wait until i get the rebate price and can change the oil for my car for around $30. Depends on the quality oil you want really. You can go as high or as low as you want. Not that i really trust the $2 qrts of oil.....but to each his own I guess.
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You can buy 5qt jug Mobile 1 full synth for 10 bucks after rebate then add a 5 buck filter. If you time it right you can get this price every 6 months or so, stock up when the rebates are live, always have it at the ready.
 
nightanole said:
I wonder what magic they are using. Laptop batteries dont last much more than 5 years (way below 80% charge). Cell phones need battery replacements, and they are only a few years old. I work constantly with 18650's(panasonic 2200mah from licensed pack makers) a work, and if the device is from 2005-2009, i dont even bother testing them, since i know they will be well be low my 85% mark for replacement. And we baby our batteries, we send them out at 40% charge, and refurbish the device every year.
Click to expand...

You are comparing something companies take years of planning vs. laptops and smartphones which comes out every year and they just slap together with off the shelf batteries.

Prius batteries have been show to last forever. First gen Prius with 300,000+ miles on them still have their original batteries. They do charging algorithms that keep the batteries between 40-60 charged. It never gets fully discharged and never fully charged to maximize battery life.
 
talon95 said:
I love how they test the range at 65mph. Who drives that slow?!?! Highway speeds here in KS are 75mph with everyone going 80 or more. What's the range at 80mph?
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Kansas is special. Most other states have the speed limit at 65mph. Congrats.
 
buttons said:
Last time i did my own oil change cost me $37 (bought 6qts of non synthetic oil and filter from autozone), mean while my dealership does it for $21 and washes my car...
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If the dealership prices go up, you can do it your self by going to Walmart... You can find Mobil, Valvoline, or other name brand oils in 5qt jugs for like $20, and they usually have some type of discount to get a filter with it. I'd guess you have a drop-in filter instead of the screw on type, those cost $$$ for no good reason. I can get a filter that is twice the size of 1/3 of the price if it's a can versus one that is a plastic drop in.
 
Gasaraki_ said:
You are comparing something companies take years of planning vs. laptops and smartphones which comes out every year and they just slap together with off the shelf batteries.

Prius batteries have been show to last forever. First gen Prius with 300,000+ miles on them still have their original batteries. They do charging algorithms that keep the batteries between 40-60 charged. It never gets fully discharged and never fully charged to maximize battery life.
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That's nickle metal hydride. And ours was down to half life at 180,000 miles (2nd gen). I hated that car. It had absolutely HORRID driving dynamics. And the plastic inside screamed "Cheap cheap cheap"
 
locsplitter said:
Good. Tesla sucks. All hype and paid for with my dime. Not that Government Motors is any better.
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Most people who take advantage of the credit, likely pays in ample taxes to more than cover the tiny portion of their money they get back... So basically they're reclaiming their freedom to choose where a tiny portion of their taxes get allocated...

Also I'm pretty sure Tesla is at about the 100k~ mark of the 200k cap for units covered by the incentive... @ $7500 a pop x 200k = 1.5B, that doesn't even cover one Tomahawk missile (2.6B)... We should be angry about actual waste, not political marketing saying that something is waste to distract us from said waste...

Apparently scapegoating is still very popular...

DigitalGriffin said:
ICE's are basically the most inefficient form of generating electricity. Turbines are much more efficient and their durability has gone up and noise & size down. I hypothesized about using turbines in hybrid setups for years. Yes Yes I know turbines were abandoned in the 60's because they were slow to deliver power. However with a battery backup, spool up/down times are nothing to worry about.

One of the founders of Tesla is converting rigs to use turbines and electric motors.

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Since it's an electric drive system by default, they can more or less just swap out the ICE for a turbine... If or when that makes sense...

EDIT: Thanks for reading between the lines...
upload_2017-8-5_17-20-24.png


Some follow up here:
https://hardforum.com/threads/chevr...-ev-range-test.1941124/page-3#post-1043147782
 
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kac77 said:
How in the world do you get oil and a filter for $16?!?!
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Uvaman2 said:
In the same planet where all ICE engine/transmissions are so simple and super reliable.
Or it could be 99c cent sludge garbage oil too I guess.
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buttons said:
Last time i did my own oil change cost me $37 (bought 6qts of non synthetic oil and filter from autozone), mean while my dealership does it for $21 and washes my car...
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Lol! Some of you clearly have never changed the oil in your car or apparently don't know how to price shop. It's called looking for sales. Auto zone, advanced, Walmart and Napa have them all the time. Hell, walmarts non sale price for Pennzoil 10w 30 syn blend 5 quart bottle is $16. It isn't hard to shop around and find it lower and bundled with an oil filter. I bet it would blow your minds to realize brakes are super easy as well and don't cost anywhere near the $250 a dealership charges. Last brake change I did cost me $24.99 for the pads and $19.99 per rotor, which don't have to be changed often but I figured 100k miles why not.
 
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MikeTrike said:
Why is it that Tesla is the only company that can make an EV not look like this?

This is not compelling, it just looks like a Honda Accord Hybrid... Also it only has a 25.5kWh pack... 89~ mile range... My 500e has a 24kWh pack and has an 84~ mile range... Why?

View attachment 32342

Use Tesla as the template, not GM... Stop making them look like goddamn spaceships... They're cars, make them compelling to drive on Earth...

033173.jpg
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OMG what kind of crack were the designers at GM smoking when they designed the EV1? That thing is absolutely hideous. :vomit:
 
Gasaraki_ said:
You are comparing something companies take years of planning vs. laptops and smartphones which comes out every year and they just slap together with off the shelf batteries.

Prius batteries have been show to last forever. First gen Prius with 300,000+ miles on them still have their original batteries. They do charging algorithms that keep the batteries between 40-60 charged. It never gets fully discharged and never fully charged to maximize battery life.
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Another factor is that the cell chemistry for Tesla batteries isn't optimized for capacity, but longevity and has a nanny circuit that cuts power whenever things get toasty such as from repeated hard launches. That's why for hill climb electrics, people have taken a tesla drivetrain, but battery packs from LG because they can get stronger discharge out of them for the same mass. Consumer electronics focus on maximum MAH for the size and "thinness" but if you're building cells for a 10 year lifecycle product, a more reliable cell can mean fewer warranty costs and RMAs even if you lose out a bit on capacity.
 
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I'm waiting for the Nuclear Powered car. I've heard you can go 27 months before you have to get a new core. But, the lead casing weighs 176 lbs. ;)
 
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