Former Google SVP Says Android Photography Is Years behind iPhone

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
Vic Gundotra, who was largely responsible for the failure called Google+, has insisted that anyone who truly cares about great photography owns an iPhone, and not an Android. Part of the problem, he claims, is that Android is open source, which prevents innovations from surfacing immediately, and that Google has lagged behind with computational photography. Many smartphone camera tests out there beg to differ, however (not to mention that anyone who really, really cares about photography has a DSLR or similar camera).

Gundotra's comments are particularly interesting because the Google Pixel showcased what the company could achieve through software processing. We conducted a blind camera test between the Galaxy S8, LG G6, Google Pixel, and the iPhone 7 earlier this year, and after 53,000 votes, the Galaxy S8 came out on top as the best overall shooter, followed by the Pixel. Even though the likes of the Galaxy S8 and Pixel hold their own next to the iPhone, it looks like the former Google SVP won't be picking up an Android phone again for photography.
 
lol. Who is this guy and why should i care about his opinion? Why is be comparing an iphone (hardware) to android (software platform)? Can't he distinguish between the two?
 
Hypergreatthing said:
lol. Who is this guy and why should i care about his opinion? Why is be comparing an iphone (hardware) to android (software platform)? Can't he distinguish between the two?
Click to expand...

Exactly.
"Yes it's stunning. By the way, I ran all of Google's mobile efforts from 2007-2010. I was SVP of engineering. So I understand this topic reasonably well. I would NEVER buy an Android phone again if I cared about photography."

So, he hasn't been relevant since 2010. In his mind, he is thinking about what the tech was, not the way it is now. And, he is the one who thought up Google+?
He needs to be shunned back into his cave.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
lol. Who is this guy and why should i care about his opinion? Why is be comparing an iphone (hardware) to android (software platform)? Can't he distinguish between the two?
Click to expand...

Google is fighting the uphill battle of what makes it into the core android feature set. They want the vendors to start moving towards implementing the clean, core android experience like they do with their phones. This means google is a bit screwed at implementing cutting edge features if they can't introduce it into core. They either have to wait until it is common, or break their own rules and undermine their goals of a pure android experience becoming more common. All the other andorid players can keep pace by slapping proprietary layers on top like everyone else though. Google however is pressured to remain at "put in decent single input camera that takes a quality picture" while the industry seems to be moving to fancy multi lens setups and more complex software to deal with them. What's worse for them is that it is likely to be something the distinguishes between premium phones and budget phones.

So the guy is saying that apple, a hardware and software company, is creating problems for google in how they manage their software product and hardware product. What wins google gets out of having the two being independent is likely hard to distinguish to the mass market compared to "takes cooler pictures". It is also harder to distinguish than "gets actual fucking updates for 3-4 years in a timely manner", although he doesn't say that one outright. It is implicit in the push to have manufacturers and carriers head towards the pure android experience and commit to updates.
 
I didn't think photography on Smartphones got serious till 2013+.
 
Even my 4 year old point and shoot takes better pictures than any phone, especially if you need a zoom.

While my Note 4 isn't as good as the latest generation phones, it still takes very good pictures.
Good enough that I don't bother bringing a backup camera on vacation any more, my phone is now my backup camera.
 
Gweenz said:
Actually, people who care about photography buy a real camera.
Click to expand...


But the downside of that is that no one else is serious or cares about the pictures they take with it. Let's be honest here.

I can take a good shot but I never bother showing them to people because I have zero interest in anyone else's pics. I bet most folks are the same. Please don't bother trying to show me the 468 pics you took on holiday.

It was just tolerable having to go through 36 pics back in film days.
 
This guy either has a vested interest in down playing Android or is just VERY CLEARLY ignorant. There is a very real possibility he words were taken out of context as well.

I want all of you guys on here to understand and this is very important.... never take someone's word as a fact .... ever. I've caught Mark Cuban dead wrong a few times on his show Shark Tank, granted, he has to know a little about a lot of stuff that comes across his desk. I catch people wrong all the time, especially at Microcenter. You listen to those sales guys talk to customers and they either purposely misrepresent a product or guide someone to a product they don't need. I hear it all the time. The point being if there is some benefit to that person you're not going to get a straight answer.

My 2 year old Nexus 6 which is still an amazing camera has a killer camera built in. It still impresses me.
 
My pixel xl takes worse photos than both of my wife's iphone 6 plus (work/personal). This is largely due to the camera sensors/lense and cases. Various cases cause too much shadowing (case blocks light), dust and grime... however the phone is easily shattered so you need a decent case. If you have a pixel xl, clean the lens area often.
 
Hardware is similar and on par, if Apple is better anywhere its on its automatic software post processing it does to the images. Though this is nice sometimes, its not always wanted.
 
While my current phone is an iPhone 6s plus, the HTC U11 currently has the worlds best camera on a smartphone and has earned dxomarks highest score ever, dethroning last years pixel.... last time I checked the U11 runs Android.
 
SixFootDuo said:
This guy either has a vested interest in down playing Android or is just VERY CLEARLY ignorant. There is a very real possibility he words were taken out of context as well.

I want all of you guys on here to understand and this is very important.... never take someone's word as a fact .... ever. I've caught Mark Cuban dead wrong a few times on his show Shark Tank, granted, he has to know a little about a lot of stuff that comes across his desk. I catch people wrong all the time, especially at Microcenter. You listen to those sales guys talk to customers and they either purposely misrepresent a product or guide someone to a product they don't need. I hear it all the time. The point being if there is some benefit to that person you're not going to get a straight answer.

My 2 year old Nexus 6 which is still an amazing camera has a killer camera built in. It still impresses me.
Click to expand...

Oh it's definitely the latter :)

Also note that the guy left before the Nexus 5X release, and the exec's main focus was Google Plus. Absolutely laughable that anyone is taking him seriously. Nexus went from a 1/3.2" sensor to a 1/2.3" sensor - quite a significant jump when we're talking mobile phones. I've compared my photos (5X, Pixel) to iPh6 Plus and 7 Plus and the iPhones are always soft and over-processed once ISO ramps up. Can't cheat optics or a smaller sensor.

Honestly it's made it hard to consider a phone that can't at least match the 5X/Pixel on that front, cuz I'm not about to accept a regression in camera quality.
 
I've compared the quality of picture taken by the Galaxy S8 to my own Moto Z Force and, except in low light conditions, the actual picture quality looks better on mine than the S8. The resolution of the captured images is higher as well and allows for more zooming on the final image without detail loss (5344x4008). The aperture is slightly worse on mine (F/1.8 vs F/1.7) as is the actual pixel size, but those mainly come into play in low light situations. In full daylight, a well lit room, or when the flash is viable, I would greatly prefer to have the Moto's 21MP image sensor over the 12MP one in the S8 any day.
 
daglesj said:
I didn't think photography on Smartphones got serious till 2013+.
Click to expand...

Have they ever got serious? They're good enough for social media, which is the majority of use case scenarios out there. For something I'd want to print out, I wouldn't be using any smartphone.
 
krotch said:
Have they ever got serious? They're good enough for social media, which is the majority of use case scenarios out there. For something I'd want to print out, I wouldn't be using any smartphone.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned earlier not many really cares about ultimate picture quality anymore. 20 Years ago 98% of folks used disposable cameras or just slapped drug store brand film in their $80 compact camera.

As long as the device captures the event adequately that is all that's needed 98% of cases.

Pro gear only matters if you are a pro and getting paid to take those pictures. Otherwise...you are kidding yourself.

A few years back I used to take up to 4 cameras on holiday with me. I then realised it was a waste of time and just adding hassle to my holiday. Next year I'll just be using my 'ancient' LG G4.
 
daglesj said:
As I mentioned earlier not many really cares about ultimate picture quality anymore. 20 Years ago 98% of folks used disposable cameras or just slapped drug store brand film in their $80 compact camera.

As long as the device captures the event adequately that is all that's needed 98% of cases.

Pro gear only matters if you are a pro and getting paid to take those pictures. Otherwise...you are kidding yourself.

A few years back I used to take up to 4 cameras on holiday with me. I then realised it was a waste of time and just adding hassle to my holiday. Next year I'll just be using my 'ancient' LG G4.
Click to expand...

I think ppl care about picture quality, but only in certain cases. They don't care about having the best picture quality for taking a picture of burger you got at some shop a couple states away. Scenic shots, family photos, etc are things that ppl do care about having good quality. More than a smartphone can provide. So, they'll go out to photo studios or pay for a professional photographer to take care of it. They just don't see it worthwhile for themselves to buy the gear to take those photos or learn how to take those photos.

I'm in the middle ground. I hate how bad the photos from any smartphone come out, but I don't want to lug around a big DSLR either. I just instead bought a Sony RX400 IV point and shoot. It's got DSLR type options/settings, which I have no idea how to use. I just want good quality photos from a camera that I can easily stick in my pocket.
 
krotch said:
I think ppl care about picture quality, but only in certain cases. Scenic shots, family photos, etc are things that ppl do care about having good quality. More than a smartphone can provide. So, they'll go out to photo studios or pay for a professional photographer to take care of it. They just don't see it worthwhile for themselves to buy the gear to take those photos or learn how to take those photos.
Click to expand...

Really? How often do people do that? I'm talking about normal people on holiday and day to day. Not the once every 10 years awkward family portrait (why people do those...they always look awful and I don't mean the picture quality).

For 98% a decent smartphone is perfectly good. I only know two people now that carry a full digital SLR day to day and they are both professional photographers.
 
I don't surf the web on my Nikon D600. Each device has it's place. What bugs me is foodie shots with crappy color grading. Usually the food looks more like a bowl of puke.
 
A great photographer can take magnificent pictures with a brownie box camera with slow ancient black and white film. The average photographer takes terrible pictures that no one wants to look at, with a Nikon DSLR. But salesmen cater to people's egos, and sell them all the Nikon DSLR (or, an iphone because it supposedly has a better camera so it will make YOUR pictures GREAT so everyone will want to look at them and oooo and aaaaah!). Just more bullshit.
 
daglesj said:
Really? How often do people do that? I'm talking about normal people on holiday and day to day. Not the once every 10 years awkward family portrait (why people do those...they always look awful and I don't mean the picture quality).

For 98% a decent smartphone is perfectly good. I only know two people now that carry a full digital SLR day to day and they are both professional photographers.
Click to expand...

Why I said certain cases. How many ppl use smartphones for taking marriage photos? Nice dressed up family photos? They don't. They'll pay someone to do it. For going on holiday, many still carry around that a $150-200 point and shoot. I don't mean that short weekend trip to someplace close by. I mean long distance travel. Then there's others that carry around that $1000+ DSLR. Obviously, as smartphone cameras have gotten better, you have seen less people carrying around a point and shoot. They're fine with "good enough" photos.

I bought a good point and shoot, cause I fly like 3000+ miles away for my holiday and I want good pictures when I take them. I did the smartphone thing before with my Sony Xperia Z2 phone and I don't like those photos at all.
 
daglesj said:
As I mentioned earlier not many really cares about ultimate picture quality anymore. 20 Years ago 98% of folks used disposable cameras or just slapped drug store brand film in their $80 compact camera.
As long as the device captures the event adequately that is all that's needed 98% of cases.
A few years back I used to take up to 4 cameras on holiday with me. I then realised it was a waste of time and just adding hassle to my holiday. Next year I'll just be using my 'ancient' LG G4.
Click to expand...

Main reason to bring a separate camera is for the long zoom or a water proof camera for wet activities.

I used to take a large point & shoot and a 2nd smaller or water proof camera, but got tired of lugging a camera bag around.
Switched to a small "travel zoom" point & shoot with almost the same zoom as the larger camera, and a smaller backup camera just in case.

Now, it's just the "travel zoom" point & shoot & my phone as a backup.
 
I think someone's aiming for a job at Apple!

End of the DSLR... yeah, maybe, but it's because of the advances in ILC Mirrorless Cameras, not the cameras in Smartphones.
 
This guy obviously hasn't used. New flagship Android phones in years...

If it wasn't for the lense flare/Halo issue on the Google Pixel... Google has the on device image processing on lockdown which is key for those quick point and shoot moments. Consistently good pictures quickly with no messing around....

I feel like he was eluding to the fact that programs like Instagram don't get the benefit because you have to use the built in Camera app to get those results. I can't disagree with that and it is something Google needs to address. I have seen tons of people complain but I dont use my camera with these apps so I don't care...

As for the camera equipment discussion... The best camera is the one you have with you... I bought a DSLR 10 years ago and enjoyed using it and learning about how it worked, manual settings etc. Now I can easily get better shots on my Pixel XL in 2 seconds that are way nicer with no tinkering. Granted, buying a new camera body, some new lenses etc. can make the difference less dramatic but it's more messing around than Joe average is prepared to deal with to get the shot. Plus is bulky, heavy and inconvenient to carry around...

When my bro got married, I got a ton of pictures that the pro photographer didn't get that they really appreciated. Also I got the only video if their first dance etc. Which actually looked half way decent with the built in OIS on my Note 4... I was in the wedding party... Carrying around a DSLR and a Video camera would have been ridiculous.... A smartphone let me get the shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top