Intel Kaby Lake i7-7700K CPU De-Lid & Re-Lid Results @ [H]

Well pretty sure my 7700k has the worlds worst TIM job. Getting 20-25C flucuations under load and are just totally wild swings. Core 1+4 seem to be the worst. I could boot at 5ghz @1.36v but any load would send temps over OCCT limit and it would kill the load. Now testing 4.9 at lower voltage 1.344v. We really need AMD to get the gaming and oc'ing up in Ryzen man. Intel taking way too much for granted here on a $300+ cpu.
 
Well pretty sure my 7700k has the worlds worst TIM job. Getting 20-25C flucuations under load and are just totally wild swings. Core 1+4 seem to be the worst. I could boot at 5ghz @1.36v but any load would send temps over OCCT limit and it would kill the load. Now testing 4.9 at lower voltage 1.344v. We really need AMD to get the gaming and oc'ing up in Ryzen man. Intel taking way too much for granted here on a $300+ cpu.
I think most you will see will require 1.36v+ to do 5GHz. The one I got at 1.32v I think is pretty much a Golden CPU.
 
yeah I agree, but temps are so bad even at 1.345 and 4.9 on Artic cool 240 AIO cooler I can't push more voltage as it sits now or temps shoot over the max allowed temps in OCCT and kill the test. Right now it sits most of time loaded at 73C then will spike to 90C per RealTemp and mid 80's in OCCT sensor(somewhat delayed and slower reading). Then temps fall back to the 70's a sec later. My 6700k wasn't this wild on temp swings. After I re lidded that cpu the temps fell a good bit but the swings in loaded temps weren't wild pre or post lid procedure.
Yeah, time to pop the top and get it right.
 
Will do mate :). Just gonna run it a bit and see what I can get w/out popping yet and make sure she doesn't die on me for some strange reason. Had 2 bad skylake cpu's, one DOA and one die after a few boots. A bit gun shy to pop it until I run her a bit :)
Sounds like you need a good UPS/Power Conditioner.
 
popped the 7700k and resealed tonight(using AS5 for TIM and black RTV gasket maker). 10-15C lower temps and best off the core one spikes seem to be under control now. Testing at 5ghz to see if I can finally stop the quest ;). PS the Permatex black Ultra gasket sealer. I found this to work much better on my RC nitro heli muffler seal vs the orange stuff Kyle uses for his re lids as that orange stuff broke down and the black stuff held much better in THAT application. I had it on hand so not sure how it applies to cpus etc.... Just some FYI if it helps.

this is after delid/reseal. Vcore at 1.38 or 1.385v in bios LLC set level 1 on Asrock Z170 Fatality K4 which generally will keep it pretty stable at max in my expereinces. Flucuations noted in cpuz between 1.376 and 1.392 so I think I have it set about where it was prior to delid; I may be maxing out power delivery on this boards mosfets etc...????. I worked my way up and has failed 2x at lower voltages going a bit further each time.
vnrEtJ0.jpg


this was before: may not look as dramatic per the program on screen etc,, but the spikes are much less wild/frequent, and it wouldn't go past 1-3 minutes at 5ghz before either an error or occt shut down due to temp violation.
wnqQW36.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Qrash
like this
I think this whole delidding business is such an embarrassment for Intel. It's one thing their current mainstream platform is limited to 4C/8T, it's quite another that it is thermally challenged. The only excuse for buying Intel Z270 now would be reaching the coveted 5 GHz, while enjoying maximum gaming performance for another year or two. But delidding a $300+ CPU just to achieve normal temps and acceptable noise levels??? Core i7-7700K could just as well have been locked, as pushing it beyond 4.5 GHz is such a PITA.
Now I'll have to wait for Intel X299 with a reportedly better TIM or solder in the entry level LGA 2066 Core i7K...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Qrash
like this
Compared to past overclocks, I think hitting 5.0ghz has been relatively painfree. Prime95 stable @4.9 once I figured out the whole AVX mess, OCCT stable at 5.0, Realbench stable at 5.0. Temps in the 80s under AVX load and low 70's under anything else load. Settings wise, I think I had 4 things to change for a 5.0ghz clock. manual multiplier, 50x, Adaptive Voltage and a +125 offset.

Delidding is now 100x easier to do thanks to 3d printing, and heatspreaders and heatsinks while not mirror shines are now razor flat.

Going back thru memory lane on overclocking, this is probably one of the easiest builds I have done.
 
AVX is another set of instructions like SSE etc that intel has added over the years. It specializes in Vector operations 128/256bit. To calculate and overclock and retain precision here is tough to be honest, but its specific enough that most programs out there will not use it. Prime 95 as of late has these instructions coded in. So prime95 is a perfect test for AVX stability. Since recent mobos have an AVX offset (drop the multiplier by x amount for a detected AVX load), its easy to have 2 separate states for your overclock. 1 for AVX, and 1 for everything else. I could not get a 5.0ghz stable with prime95 avx at 5.0ghz without breaking 1.45V or exceeding thermals, ie if I could keep it at even 70's I think I could find a voltage keeping AVX instructions stable. This would exceed the 91W limit of the CPU so long term wise it made no sense. At 4.9Ghz, AVX was prime95 AVX stable, with temps touching low 80's. Ran it almost 7 hours of prime95 that way. It's a neat setting to work with. I just wish a proper speedstep would work where that if its nothing serious in load, it would downclock maybe by half say 2.5ghz.
 
ok, I've heard something of this but I have no clue what setting it is in my asrock bios. Looking at reviews etc... I think mine doesn't have the setting, as I see where it's at on a Z270 Asrock mobo review pic of bios setting. Maybe since I have a Z170 it doesn't have that setting? Now my OCD is going to pester at me to buy a new board, vs. "settling" for 4.8ghz stable. I could do 5ghz but it wasn't fully stable and feel the AVX thing might be the missing link there. But I can do 4.8ghz at 1.325 and runs nice and cool. Just not sure it's worth time, $ and hassle of a new install as much as I like goofing with new parts.
 
Last edited:
Well after practicing on my 3770k the other day I just did my 7700K

I bought the RockItCool kit so it was obviously pretty painless, hopefully I'll get a chunk of money back reselling it on ebay, lot to spend for 3 minutes, so to speak.

I will say though, the so called 'pop' was definitely way more of a *bang* with the 7700 compared to the 3700, I'll admit I was figuratively shitting myself to look what had happened but all was fine, just a TON of sealant.

Found it quite therapeutic scraping it off with the wooden stick tbh
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2360.JPG
    IMG_2360.JPG
    118.5 KB · Views: 113
ok, I've heard something of this but I have no clue what setting it is in my asrock bios. Looking at reviews etc... I think mine doesn't have the setting, as I see where it's at on a Z270 Asrock mobo review pic of bios setting. Maybe since I have a Z170 it doesn't have that setting? Now my OCD is going to pester at me to buy a new board, vs. "settling" for 4.8ghz stable. I could do 5ghz but it wasn't fully stable and feel the AVX thing might be the missing link there. But I can do 4.8ghz at 1.325 and runs nice and cool. Just not sure it's worth time, $ and hassle of a new install as much as I like goofing with new parts.
Briefly checking, it appears some Z170 boards do have the option while others do not. Some people with boards that had it say the option was greyed out. It wasn't clear whether they were using Sky Lake or Kaby Lake, however.

I'd check to see if there's a BIOS update available. I couldn't find anything specific to the board in your sig. You may be correct.
 
Well after practicing on my 3770k the other day I just did my 7700K

I bought the RockItCool kit so it was obviously pretty painless, hopefully I'll get a chunk of money back reselling it on ebay, lot to spend for 3 minutes, so to speak.

I will say though, the so called 'pop' was definitely way more of a *bang* with the 7700 compared to the 3700, I'll admit I was figuratively shitting myself to look what had happened but all was fine, just a TON of sealant.

Found it quite therapeutic scraping it off with the wooden stick tbh

You have a number in mind for your resale?
 
I just found a new job today (yay, me!), so I'll have disposable income again and was thinking of de-lidding and re-lidding my 7700K and had a few questions. I'll be using a Corsair H115i as my cooling solution if that's important.

Are the tools that make de-lidding less an exciting venture (even if they are "boomy" with a 7000 series compared to Ivy Bridge) updated for Kaby Lake yet? I'd like to buy one tool that does both. The Die-Delid-Mate 2 looks good, but it's not out yet and I'm in the US, so I'd prefer to avoid international shipping.

What is used to remove the old material Intel attaches the IHS with? Would an old credit card or something be fine? Then rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth to completely clean it?

About reattaching the IHS...how has the reg automotive stuff Kyle used held up? There was concern about that slipping I think? Someone on here also said Crazy Glue in the corners? How is that removed if re-lidding takes more than one attempt?
 
I just found a new job today (yay, me!), so I'll have disposable income again and was thinking of de-lidding and re-lidding my 7700K and had a few questions. I'll be using a Corsair H115i as my cooling solution if that's important.

Are the tools that make de-lidding less an exciting venture (even if they are "boomy" with a 7000 series compared to Ivy Bridge) updated for Kaby Lake yet? I'd like to buy one tool that does both. The Die-Delid-Mate 2 looks good, but it's not out yet and I'm in the US, so I'd prefer to avoid international shipping.

What is used to remove the old material Intel attaches the IHS with? Would an old credit card or something be fine? Then rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth to completely clean it?

About reattaching the IHS...how has the reg automotive stuff Kyle used held up? There was concern about that slipping I think? Someone on here also said Crazy Glue in the corners? How is that removed if re-lidding takes more than one attempt?


Man, that's what I used if you have a look at the other topic here. Answers all your questions (y)



Btw the glue is removed by simple nail polish cleaner. Though you must be REALLY bad to not make it after one attempt if you look at the video.
 
I just found a new job today (yay, me!), so I'll have disposable income again and was thinking of de-lidding and re-lidding my 7700K and had a few questions. I'll be using a Corsair H115i as my cooling solution if that's important.

Are the tools that make de-lidding less an exciting venture (even if they are "boomy" with a 7000 series compared to Ivy Bridge) updated for Kaby Lake yet? I'd like to buy one tool that does both. The Die-Delid-Mate 2 looks good, but it's not out yet and I'm in the US, so I'd prefer to avoid international shipping.

What is used to remove the old material Intel attaches the IHS with? Would an old credit card or something be fine? Then rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth to completely clean it?

About reattaching the IHS...how has the reg automotive stuff Kyle used held up? There was concern about that slipping I think? Someone on here also said Crazy Glue in the corners? How is that removed if re-lidding takes more than one attempt?

there are 3 tools on the market

delid DIE mate (4 if you count the old one in)
that's out for now
Dr delid from aquacomputer
that's out as it's German

what you want is the rockit tool
all of those 3 tools are working with the 7th generation
the old delid die mate didn't work when gluing it back together
however I think the rockit tool needs an add on for gluing the IHS back on

02-delidder-all.jpg

not sure the white thing comes with it normally


using any old credit card works wonders on the Intel stuff
and yes cleaning up with some alcohol afterwards


if you use a super glue
just dab the corners (like you should with any other glue or silicone as well)

if you have to redo the delid for any reason and you used superglue
well you could use nail polish remover to weaken it
 
I have not had any issues with IHS seating and the RTV sealant. And I take these on an off all the time.
 
The rockitcool came with a little wooden stick like you use for glue removal on soft woods, that was perfect for scraping off the old glue.

I'm sure they have a name, lots of stuff would do it though. It's not a sensitive area so don't use a compass or something and you'll be fine.

I used marine rtv to reseal it and it's been fine. I used a metal stamp to make a small hole in the lid to keep the dispersion small and all worked great.

The results have been good, can't wait till my proper water cooling arrives though, I'm determined to get this stable at 5.2 without stupid voltage (tested it ok at 1.45)

5.1 at 1.36 is alright though, finally a 5ghz processor after 9 years at 4.5 lol, at least I get something beyond the nominal IPC improvement.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2354.JPG
    IMG_2354.JPG
    110.3 KB · Views: 83
Last edited:
My 6700k makes me feel sad after your words :D

Luck of the draw I guess. When I've got my old pc up and running again so I can bench it, I'm sure I'll be depressed at how small the performance improvement is. 5ghz is definitely a big psychological win though.

The biggest difference has been i/o, ran a bench on my old ssd as I couldn't believe how much slower it was was. It was almost half the speed it had been new, so almost all the percieved improvement is that I reckon (startup is literally 3 seconds after post to login)
 
Last edited:
Stupid question, but how long does liquid metal last when used on only the die? I just want to delid once and forget about it.
 
Stupid question, but how long does liquid metal last when used on only the die? I just want to delid once and forget about it.

there's not like a decade of experience with the stuff

that being said

shops that sell binned CPU's usually offer also to delid (or in case with the new i9's, they come with a delid in the price)

in the US Silicon lottery comes to mind


when being asked about they stated that they sold delided CPU's for 3 years now and customers have not complained about anything

under the IHS it usually stays liquid (from the handful of people having looked at it again, including me; but only a few months after)

on the IHS it can harden out (reacts with copper a bit)


I would say you can leave it as is once applied (and glued back together)

even if it hardens out that's not bad

if it's hardened then heat will still transfer
only users that used the stuff on the IHS have complained about hardening and rising temps
and from the few cases I've seen they all moved the case around or something
I'd guess a crack developed in the hardened out stuff
making contact terrible again

but under the IHS there should not be any of such trouble
as there are no strong forces flexing on the bonding like with a huge Noctua cooler

after about 4 months
nothing really changed
20170429_195758.jpg


everything not shiny has hardened out and I had to scrub it off
same timeframe
20170429_193504.jpg
 
Last edited:
Stupid question, but how long does liquid metal last when used on only the die? I just want to delid once and forget about it.

I have no experience, but am waiting for delivery on some Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. This claims to have "excellent long-term stability".
 
I have no experience, but am waiting for delivery on some Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. This claims to have "excellent long-term stability".

That's what they all say. You ever think planned obsolescence is just a lie? They claim it can last for X amount of time before it's actually reached X amount of time. Long term capability....heh.
 
There's a vid on YouTube of someone checking their delid after 1 year and he says the paste looks fine. He used the premium CoolLabs stuff though.

If you don't use adhesive, it's trivial anyway. Remove the heatsink and pop the cpu open.
 
Afaik the first LM "pastes" had some issues with long term stability, but the ones nowdays should be fine between DIE and IHS.
 
Just ordered my rocket tool and my 7700k.
what Thermal Interface Material do you guys recommend? Can't I just use silver #5?
 
Last edited:
Gelid Extreme.
Fantastic stuff.
It doesnt eat metal and stays still, oh and is a great thermal interface.
 
I am going to try Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut which I ordered into Canada from Amazon (USA). Delivery was slow (> 30 days) but it finally arrived. I will use it on an old 4790K that is running hot.
 
yeah I can't find Coollaboratory Ultra anywhere in Canada...
anyone else try Gelid Extreme?
Its up there with the best of the best 'normal' heatsink paste.
I was using MX-3 with my 1080ti and Accelero Xtreme III cooler.
Changed to Gelid Extreme and saw between 7 to 12C temp drop! (hard to be precise because I didnt record exacts, only for benchmarks)
Max temp overclocked when gaming is 53C at ambient 26C.
Previously I was getting well over 60C, up to 65C at 26C ambient.

Its pretty thick which is useful for a delid as it doesnt move much.
It is applied "very" thinly with a flat tool, the tube will last.
My 6700K delid experience is not the norm so I wont go into it heavily because my lid is misshapen, this causes some pita issues.
I didnt know how well it performed with a flat heatsink contact until I tried it with my 1080ti and Accelero Xtreme III cooler and was blown away by the difference.
If you dont want to go LM I highly recommended it.

More info
http://overclocking.guide/thermal-p...d-with-air-cooling-and-liquid-nitrogen-ln2/6/
The final analysis seems to forget about it strangely.
 
Last edited:
If you are planning on reattaching the IHS stay away from paste between DIE and IHS. Many pastes (for whatever reason) show increased temps after a few months. LM is the way to go in that case.
 
Its up there with the best of the best 'normal' heatsink paste.
I was using MX-3 with my 1080ti and Accelero Xtreme III cooler.
Changed to Gelid Extreme and saw between 7 to 12C temp drop! (hard to be precise because I didnt record exacts, only for benchmarks)
Max temp overclocked when gaming is 53C at ambient 26C.
Previously I was getting well over 60C, up to 65C at 26C ambient.

Its pretty thick which is useful for a delid as it doesnt move much.
It is applied "very" thinly with a flat tool, the tube will last.
My 6700K delid experience is not the norm so I wont go into it heavily because my lid is misshapen, this causes some pita issues.
I didnt know how well it performed with a flat heatsink contact until I tried it with my 1080ti and Accelero Xtreme III cooler and was blown away by the difference.
If you dont want to go LM I highly recommended it.

More info
http://overclocking.guide/thermal-p...d-with-air-cooling-and-liquid-nitrogen-ln2/6/
The final analysis seems to forget about it strangely.

Really? Would you suggest I use it between the heat spreader and heat sink also? or stick to silver #5 for that?
 
Really? Would you suggest I use it between the heat spreader and heat sink also? or stick to silver #5 for that?
Yes, it hardly moves which is what you want.
Runny pastes squeeze out causing temps to rise after some time.

Liquid Metal behaves differently and appears to stay in place.
But it also reacts with metals so can cause harm if it gets in the wrong place.
ie it eats solder and copper.
It is supposed to be ok with aluminium such as intel heatspreaders. (edit: corrected by Qrash, it reacts with aluminium not copper, Intel sinks are copper. Oops)
Older LM versions are reported to set hard such that they have to be scraped / cleaned off.
Newer versions are reported to stay liquid but there isnt a lot of info about this yet to be sure.

Word of warning:
If you have a large variation in core temps before delidding, its likely your lids inside surface is not flat.
Mine is like this.
Normal pastes are not so good for this. From what I have read, LM would work better.
Normal paste when filling a large gap tends to squeeze out more, even very thick paste like Gelid Extreme.
In my tests, Gelid Extreme took a "lot" longer before the core temp differences starting happening but they did eventually.
I lost 100MHz off my max overclock because of this, due to my lids inside surface not being flat.
 
Last edited:
But it also reacts with metals so can cause harm if it gets in the wrong place.
ie it eats solder and copper.
It is supposed to be ok with aluminium such as intel heatspreaders.

Most (all ?) liquid metal thermal interface materials (TIMs) contain gallium which reacts with aluminum. It actually corrodes it. Do not use LM TIMs with aluminum heatsinks.

The integrated heat spreader (IHS) on Intel CPUs is nickel-plated copper. This is why LM is safe to use between the IHS and the processor die.
 
yeah was also going to say, aluminum very bad, it causes very rapid degradation of aluminum. nickel seems to react the least over time so best interface is nickel on nickel and nickel on die (under IHS) all these pastes are actually galinstan which is a type of gallium alloy its not pure gallium but is mostly gallium.

copper does react with it and copper will slowly alloy with the gallium in the galinstan staining and discoloring the surface of copper. a lot of people report that after a year the copper has absorbed all the gallium and requires a reapply. it can also produce very small pitting in the surface which doesn't effect how galinstan pastes work really because they are so good at making contact and have incredible heat transfer properties but if you decide to go back to normal paste you'll probably find you need to sand the copper down flat again to get a good contact, i know on my waterblock after only a few months its surface is pretty jacked up and needs sanding to fix it.

the US navy did research on this stuff back in the 80's for use as a motor brush replacement and they did a lot of testing that lines up with what people have seen who have used it longer term.
 
Most (all ?) liquid metal thermal interface materials (TIMs) contain gallium which reacts with aluminum. It actually corrodes it. Do not use LM TIMs with aluminum heatsinks.

The integrated heat spreader (IHS) on Intel CPUs is nickel-plated copper. This is why LM is safe to use between the IHS and the processor die.
Thanks for the correction, I was switched to dim mode.
 
Most (all ?) liquid metal thermal interface materials (TIMs) contain gallium which reacts with aluminum. It actually corrodes it. Do not use LM TIMs with aluminum heatsinks.

The integrated heat spreader (IHS) on Intel CPUs is nickel-plated copper. This is why LM is safe to use between the IHS and the processor die.

Cool, ok im going to stick with good ol' #5 silver for the heat spreader to heatsink contact. thanks boys
 
Back
Top