Read the Fine Print

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,620
We all see these, a friggin' wall of text when installing an simple application. Do I really need to hire an attorney in order to play a game or use a "free" service? Hugging kitties does not sound too bad. But this is actually a political message for the UK and some of its upcoming legislation.

22,000 people agreed to carry out 1,000 hours of community service in return for free WiFi. Hidden among Purple's usual terms and conditions for two weeks was the "Community Service Clause": The user may be be required, at Purple's discretion, to carry out 1,000 hours of community service. This may include the following...Cleansing local parks of animal waste...Providing hugs to stray cats and dogs...Manually relieving sewer blockages...Cleaning portable lavatories at local festivals and events
 
Don't really know how to combat this realistically besides setting a limit on the length of a TOS/EULA/etc. Then who decides that, how is it enforced, etc.
 
The easiest way would be to just make TOS/EULA not legally binding. You shouldn't be able to sign away your rights because you aren't a lawyer and can't read and understand 20 pages of lawyer speak for every software and service you use.
 
It is what it is.

When a basic app ask for my phone number and contacts, as well as my surfing history, current location, and address, I tell them to f off.

I have netflix and Mr Number (to get rid of phone spammers) on my phone and that's it.

Nothing is ever free. NEVER EVER.

When Facebook disabled messenger on the phone from Chrome, I just stopped using facebook messaging altogether and went back to text messages. Facebook & facebook messenger is a horribly invasive piece of software
 
Cobra said:
The easiest way would be to just make TOS/EULA not legally binding. You shouldn't be able to sign away your rights because you aren't a lawyer and can't read and understand 20 pages of lawyer speak for every software and service you use.
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They really are not legally biding. I doubt they would be able to force you to do a thousand hour of community service. I would tell them to fuck off and remove the software.
 
Oh I'd hug that kitty so hard for free internet. Gonna need a Bible and a shower afterwards.
 
I see it as a one way thing: the provider of the software will do/not do this and that.
You get to not do things: copy the software, mess with it.
I guess EULA could be just that, walls of texts for that the provider of the software says they can do/not do (they can update, change it, what ever)
Then what really affects you should be shorter.. what of your information, and what is expected you don't do with the software... I think anyway.
 
at least it didn't say "trim some old ladies green toenails"...or "shave some grandmas back hair"....damn.....nice
 
Reminds me of: fc.jpg

People really don't read that crap.
Also these are other examples of good usage of EULAs.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Then what really affects you should be shorter.. what of your information, and what is expected you don't do with the software... I think anyway.
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That's what I was thinking. A summary, of sorts, right at the top of the wall of text with the basic points, like "no giving it to your buddies, etc". Simple and done, a long as a legal stipulation ensured that the summary matched the long text.
 
Not a lawyer but it seems that for a contract to be valid, something of value has to be exchanged between the two parties. Often why contracts for charitable use of something still specify a lease payment of $1. If the WiFi is Free and nothing of value was exchanged, then the contract is meaningless.

OTOH, it is a good argument about the stupidity of TOS and EULA presented after something of value is exchanged.
 
Cobra said:
The easiest way would be to just make TOS/EULA not legally binding. You shouldn't be able to sign away your rights because you aren't a lawyer and can't read and understand 20 pages of lawyer speak for every software and service you use.
Click to expand...

That or at the very least, require a layman's statement that states the restrictions in quick fashion.

The majority of contract lawyer speak can usually be broken down to "you can't do this .." and then the rest of that paragraph is filler clauses to cover up the loopholes that can come up or be exploited. It's intentionally drawn out and long to hide the clause from other parties.

So a statement that says:

"
End User:

- Can not install on multiple machines (see paragraph X)

- Can not transfer or sale (paragraph Y)

- Authorizes sharing of selfies and nude photos (Paragraph Z) at companies discretion.

- Authorizes the resale of user data (Paragraph D)

Etc.
"

That would allow users to quickly see the clause without trying to decipher it from 600 extra words of jargon. If they want to read more, they can jump to the paragraph. Anything buried in the paragraph that isn't related to layman statement should be considered void - so if the statement talks about sharing user photos, but the linked paragraph says the user authorizes sharing browser history, it'd be void.

They've done something similar with the Credit reform stuff, where they have to provide a clear and concise statement regarding the terms of a loan. The specificity of the terms is in the full contract.
 
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Just stop EULAs from being able to dictate anything outside of direct interaction with said software.
 
You guys are lucky. You don't have to read (and understand) EULAs for your job, I do. I manage software licenses for my company. It is always fun when the fine print goes on for pages at a time...
 
Someone should make a Eula screening app that finds the commonalities of them that most of us would be o.k. with and then red flag the oddball things. Deep learning for sure.

It wasn't until Eula I began to give up on keeping track of software/services fine print. Heck, a case of beer can't get me through even one of these d**n things anymore!
 
This reminds me. . . .can we start having Eula's for political parties or candidates?
 
I remember a java (when it was produced by sun microsystems) EULA that was presented in a webform that was user editable so anyone could modify the EULA before accepting. I really got a kick out of the EULA that I agreed to ...
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
You guys are lucky. You don't have to read (and understand) EULAs for your job, I do. I manage software licenses for my company. It is always fun when the fine print goes on for pages at a time...
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So, is there anything to do other than not using the software?
 
Uvaman2 said:
So, is there anything to do other than not using the software?
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If you don't agree to the terms and conditions you either renegotiate them with the vendor or don't use the software. Sometimes (but not often) we have to either not buy or discontinue use of software due to not being able to agree on the T's & C's.
 
Paladin21 said:
http://dilbert.com/strip/1997-01-15

Not a new problem.
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And for those too stupid to read and understand a Dilbert strip, they made this lovely informative video:

_aL4D8.gif


Even retards understand eating shit, right?

Of course, enforcing anything like a Community Service clause in a EULA would take so much money in court that i wouldn't be worth it to the company. These "easy to abuse" digital licenses work both ways!

But nothing stops these companies from embedding user tracking and spyware clauses into their ELUAs. The digital side is a lot easier to enforce.
 
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I thinks it more of a, look at wtf you are signing up for when clicking accept for a eula.

No way could the company ever get the users to do such a thing and no way would they apply it.

They probably wondered how long it took for someone to actually find the community service clause in their eula.

Basically, its useless.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
If you don't agree to the terms and conditions you either renegotiate them with the vendor or don't use the software. Sometimes (but not often) we have to either not buy or discontinue use of software due to not being able to agree on the T's & C's.
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I am assuming he was actually asking if there were any good EULA stories with odd requests or not directly related to the software.

I work in software deployment and our licensing team once in a while runs into EULA issues where some company uses a generic EULA that is obviously restrictive beyond their intention... Like "redistribution" clauses that are too broad basically saying we can't deploy a camera driver using our typical deployment systems/methods (internally). I think in one case the company was Japanese and any requests about the EULA got lost in support loops from hell where we couldn't actually find anyone that knew anything about it.

I think even the companies themselves don't read their EULAs or understand them. HA!
 
It's not like this problem is restricted to EULAs either. When my wife and I bought a home several years ago, I actually read through the contract at the close (which sort of pissed off the close agent, but tough shit, I'm not signing a contract for a loan like that without actually reading it). It had a clause about not storing "flammable materials" on the property. I asked them where I was supposed to put gas for my lawnmower or wood for home repairs (and I assume that once the wood is installed it isn't "stored"?), or if I had to get rid of my propane grill. They looked at me like I had a second head and tried to tell me that they just didn't want us setting up a meth lab or having a giant tank of propane next to the house. I made them write in their clarifications and initial it (which again pissed them off). I don't think they had any idea what they wanted me to sign, I guess most people are OK with signing up for 30 years of payment and a massive loan based on what they tell them the terms are instead of reading them.
 
lostin3d said:
Someone should make a Eula screening app that finds the commonalities of them that most of us would be o.k. with and then red flag the oddball things. Deep learning for sure.

It wasn't until Eula I began to give up on keeping track of software/services fine print. Heck, a case of beer can't get me through even one of these d**n things anymore!
Click to expand...

Probably just a dirty word search program would do the trick.
 
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