Airbnb Host Who Canceled Reservation Using Racist Comment Must Pay $5,000

heatlesssun said:
And again if it was because of these reasons why was it that Baker said what she said?
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“If you think 4 people and 2 dogs ate getting a room fir $50 a night on big bear mountain during the busiest weekend of the year ..… You are insanely high,”

But of course, that's not the reason why she canceled, right? It was racism because of her further comments.
 
Bandalo said:
Again, if she had just kept her mouth shut on that very last message, she wouldn't be in this mess. You CAN both cancel a booking and make racial slurs. When you do them both, it makes it impossible to separate your actions from your motive.
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This wasn't a screenplay. This was a business transaction that went south and someone literally said exactly how they felt. Stuff happens.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
But of course, that's not the reason why she canceled, right? It was racism because of her further comments.
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I'm not a mind reader but anyone that goes out of their way to make the point that Baker did, I take them at their word. When people get mad they also get honest.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
“If you think 4 people and 2 dogs ate getting a room fir $50 a night on big bear mountain during the busiest weekend of the year ..… You are insanely high,”

But of course, that's not the reason why she canceled, right? It was racism because of her further comments.
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If Tami Barker had left it at that, I doubt Dyne Suh would have had any cause for complaint. But Bandalo has it right.

Bandalo said:
If I walk into the office and fire one of my employees while calling them a racial slur, I'm going to get sued and I'm going to lose. I can pull out a years worth of records showing the employee was under-performing, showed up late to work, and constantly didn't flush the toilet, and I'm still going to get sued and lose the case. If I just called him a fat sack of crap, and kicked him out of the building, I'd have no problems regardless of race. As soon as I (as the person in charge of the situation) bring race into the issue, I've undermined my own decision.
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Hating someone because of their race is antiquated thinking, it's time to hate the entire species.
 
heatlesssun said:
Call me whatever, deny me business in clearly stated words because of my race, yeah, that's going to be a problem for me. I get the derogatory concept of SJWs and snowflakes and all of that, but it's not like there wasn't a huge social revolution in this country that was in large part catalyzed by the denial of services based on race. And the reactions in this thread by some are pretty much like they would have been 50 to 60 years ago.

The only way the situation improved for people like my parents is when people made a fuss over it. Nothing would have changed if people just kept it to themselves.
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I would never turn down your money honey. Except I'm not going to wreck my septic system over a few hundred bucks either.

I agree with what you're saying. You have to speak up. But yeah I think a lot of what's happening in the thread here that's disheartening is just trolling. Do people really feel that way? I can't know.
 
Simplyfun said:
I would never turn down your money honey. Except I'm not going to wreck my septic system over a few hundred bucks either.
I agree with what you're saying. You have to speak up. But yeah I think a lot of what's happening in the thread here that's disheartening is just trolling. Do people really feel that way? I can't know.
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Maybe, but it's often the same usual suspects defending bigotry, racism and misogyny. Maybe they're trolls, but I choose to believe their words represent who they are. I'm sure in person they won't say some of the stuff they say here behind an anonymous handle (we all tend to be more polite in person), but they can't spend years defending these types of actions and expect me to believe they're just fucking around and not serious.
 
nilepez said:
Maybe, but it's often the same usual suspects defending bigotry, racism and misogyny. Maybe they're trolls, but I choose to believe their words represent who they are. I'm sure in person they won't say some of the stuff they say here behind an anonymous handle (we all tend to be more polite in person), but they can't spend years defending these types of actions and expect me to believe they're just fucking around and not serious.
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Some people will argue that losing your teeth is the healthiest thing that can happen to you while staring you in the eye and enjoying a gummer from grandma. It just takes one positive outcome to train people to continue doing something or believing something. So I always wondered what the positives were in this case.
 
Simplyfun said:
So I always wondered what the positives were in this case.
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What were the positives in the Civil Rights Movement when people were protesting mightily against racial discrimination in public accommodations? For myself there were tremendous positives. I was born with freedoms my parents never had until their 40s. But like then with so many people opposed to the notion of even having paying customers eat in the proximity of other equally paying customers, clearly there's a big issue here.

This isn't about affirmative action or preferential treatment of any kind. There was HUGE resistance in the US particularly in the South with some even paying the same money and getting the same service. And the level of resentment on both sides to this day is remarkable. Here we have a clear cut case right out 1950s Alabama and there's people still wanting to debate it.
 
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heatlesssun said:
What were the positives in the Civil Rights Movement when people were protesting mightily against racial discrimination in public accommodations? For myself there were tremendous positives. I was born with freedoms my parents never had until their 40s. But like then with so many people opposed to the notion of even having paying customers eat in the proximity of other equally paying customers, clearly there's a big issue here.

This is affirmative action or preferential treatment of any kind. There was HUGE resistance in the US particularly in the South with some even paying the same money and getting the same service. And the level of resentment on both sides to this day is remarkable. Here we have a clear cut case right out 1950s Alabama and there's people still wanting to debate it.
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The question, not a rhetorical one either, much more clearly stated was; what positives do people achieve for themselves by propagation of their personal intolerance in an online forum. I mean at some point they must have reaped some reward or they wouldn't bother.
 
heatlesssun said:
What were the positives in the Civil Rights Movement when people were protesting mightily against racial discrimination in public accommodations? For myself there were tremendous positives. I was born with freedoms my parents never had until their 40s. But like then with so many people opposed to the notion of even having paying customers eat in the proximity of other equally paying customers, clearly there's a big issue here.

This is affirmative action or preferential treatment of any kind. There was HUGE resistance in the US particularly in the South with some even paying the same money and getting the same service. And the level of resentment on both sides to this day is remarkable. Here we have a clear cut case right out 1950s Alabama and there's people still wanting to debate it.
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No, no, no, you got it all wrong, those people in 1950s Alabama weren't racist. They were just prejudiced. They profiled. Their reasons for denying service were not due to race because blacks are VERY demanding and often show up with things or requests never agreed to. They can actually be some of THE WORST. This is a prejudice people hold, and I am just explaining it to you.

/s
 
Wait, is it illegal to be racist in California?


Land of the free...
 
face2palm said:
Have you ever used Airbnb before? You can SEE the person's picture/profile. The renter would have known ahead of time that the girl was Asian. There is something missing from this story that isn't being said.

No idea why you are getting so bent out of shape about this anyway. It didn't happen to you.
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Exactly..if she were racist, she would have never taken the reservation.
 
Crosshairs said:
Exactly..if she were racist, she would have never taken the reservation.
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That's not how it's ever worked. Racism is this country has always been simultaneously subtle and overt. But there's nothing subtle about telling someone you don't want to do business with them because of their race. It's what she said, plain and clear.

Why do you not want to take her for her word? I've been called racist for far less.
 
heatlesssun said:
That's not how it's ever worked. Racism is this country has always been simultaneously subtle and overt. But there's nothing subtle about telling someone you don't want to do business with them because of their race. It's what she said, plain and clear.

Why do you not want to take her for her word? I've been called racist for far less.
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She canceled the agreement because of extra people. If you walk into a hotel and they have a room for 2 people with no pets, but you bring in 4 people and 2 dogs they have every right to terminate your stay for violating the contract you agreed to when you booked the room.
You can't state that because she said racially motivated things at the end of the conversation when the contract was already broken that the entire thing was racially motivated.

The facts are that she posted in airbnb 1 room for 2 people with no pets. They haggled back and forth and a set amount of 25$ per person extra per night was permitted. She never got the 100$ extra. Whether it was miscommunication or something else, the contract was broken at the time.

You want to link what she said afterwards to explain her motivation and you just can't. Plus the exact phrasing that she used means that she has a certain prejudice against asians. Like crosshairs said, if she was truely racist, she would have seen her picture and never have agreed in the first place to host her.
 
heatlesssun said:
So learning about other cultures inherently creates resentment? That might be true of a actual racist. Which I'm guessing in the case here. Better to let people simmer in their own hate I guess.
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I don't think they need to take a class on asians to know why what they said was considered in bad form. There was already social sanction, removal from the platform, and a fine by the state.

A history lesson on Asians is needed to? Really?
 
Hypergreatthing said:
You can't state that because she said racially motivated things at the end of the conversation when the contract was already broken that the entire thing was racially motivated.

Plus the exact phrasing that she used means that she has a certain prejudice against asians. Like crosshairs said, if she was truely racist, she would have seen her picture and never have agreed in the first place to host her.
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Look, I know that SJWs have cheapened accusations of racism by crying wolf too many times, but it seems that some of you have taken the opposite extreme: nothing is racist! No, it's "racially motivated." It's a "certain prejudice against Asians." It's not "truly racist."

If you find yourself trying to dismiss racism as "certain prejudice," maybe you need to be honest yourself and just admit that yes, this is racism.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
She canceled the agreement because of extra people.
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That's not what the airbinb host said at the end. Again, why bring up an issue that's so tied to racism if the dispute was so much more mundane? It's textbook racism. The people defending this airbnb host would never defend me if I'd did this and I've never come close to saying anything like this in a business transaction. Talk about the extra people, what the hell does Asian have to do with it? Oh, that's right, probably Asian.

This is plain and simple racism that started a social revolution in this country that changed it forever. But I do appreciate that those SJWs are still not liked by some to this day.
 
tybert7 said:
I don't think they need to take a class on asians to know why what they said was considered in bad form. There was already social sanction, removal from the platform, and a fine by the state.

A history lesson on Asians is needed to? Really?
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Maybe they should have offered her a choice between 5k + charity work + class or a $50,000 fine.
 
tybert7 said:
I don't think they need to take a class on asians to know why what they said was considered in bad form.
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If one thinks that this is bad form they don't understand the most significant social movement in the US in the 20th Century that changed how public accommodations work. 60 years ago, even California, what the airbnb host said was daily routine. Now it's illegal. And the Civil Rights Movement to this day is the source of a lot of the disdain of SJWs by some.
 
Just on the race thing, yes, people from different parts of the world have very different ideas on customer service and business relationships. Indians tend to be the worst I've seen, but a lot of Asian nationals have similar ideas about being "served" by a worker, and seem to want a slave/servant. I'm assuming that Americans are a lot closer to the Australian way of doing things, where anyone with an ounce of self respect and older than about 2 years realises that the person on the other side of the counter is just like you and your family, and just doing their job. Ie. picking up your own rubbish and leaving hotel rooms as they were when you got there, saying please and thank you to the poor guy employed to serve you.

I'm not saying that there are no white people who take this sort of attitude, but I've observed that it's a LOT less common, maybe just out of social pressure not to be a dick. Maybe there are some people who just have a bee in their bonnet about Asians "telling them what to do", but a lot of Asians I see obviously view employees as part of a master/servant relationship, and they're the master.

Constantly agitating for some more freebies is also a characteristic I've noticed from these customers. After the transaction has been discussed and agreed upon some of them try to wheedle extra services and goods without increasing the price.
 
Nallexi said:
Just on the race thing, yes, people from different parts of the world have very different ideas on customer service and business relationships. Indians tend to be the worst I've seen, but a lot of Asian nationals have similar ideas about being "served" by a worker, and seem to want a slave/servant. I'm assuming that Americans are a lot closer to the Australian way of doing things, where anyone with an ounce of self respect and older than about 2 years realises that the person on the other side of the counter is just like you and your family, and just doing their job. Ie. picking up your own rubbish and leaving hotel rooms as they were when you got there, saying please and thank you to the poor guy employed to serve you.

I'm not saying that there are no white people who take this sort of attitude, but I've observed that it's a LOT less common, maybe just out of social pressure not to be a dick. Maybe there are some people who just have a bee in their bonnet about Asians "telling them what to do", but a lot of Asians I see obviously view employees as part of a master/servant relationship, and they're the master.

Constantly agitating for some more freebies is also a characteristic I've noticed from these customers. After the transaction has been discussed and agreed upon some of them try to wheedle extra services and goods without increasing the price.
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Need an ip check for the alt... lol.
 
Nallexi said:
Constantly agitating for some more freebies is also a characteristic I've noticed from these customers. After the transaction has been discussed and agreed upon some of them try to wheedle extra services and goods without increasing the price.
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This is the part I agree with, I get this a LOT A LOT from certain ethnic groups and it's just wasting my time. I'm too old and crabby for this crap.
 
Stupid comment by the owner and subsequent overreaction by whatshername. I can understand a fine, since a law was broken, but making a video whining about it? Get a grip.

That said, bringing extra guests and live food last-minute isn't a very nice move, either. I'm sure the garbage man would've been alarmed at all the canine remains.

Re-education camp for me?
 
Simplyfun said:
This is the part I agree with, I get this a LOT A LOT from certain ethnic groups and it's just wasting my time. I'm too old and crabby for this crap.
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Then just say upfront only certain ethic groups are welcome. Apparently it's only racism when that's the case. Makes things easier for everyone. And that's fine with me some people are going to call that racist. Because that's what it is.
 
heatlesssun said:
That's not what the airbinb host said at the end. Again, why bring up an issue that's so tied to racism if the dispute was so much more mundane? It's textbook racism. The people defending this airbnb host would never defend me if I'd did this and I've never come close to saying anything like this in a business transaction. Talk about the extra people, what the hell does Asian have to do with it? Oh, that's right, probably Asian.

This is plain and simple racism that started a social revolution in this country that changed it forever. But I do appreciate that those SJWs are still not liked by some to this day.
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Read a few posts back about someone's experience with cleaning up after asians who rent. Should i just dismiss that as nonsense? I also read that the generalization of asians when it comes to business is that they're cheap and haggle over everything. I didn't even know this generalization existed and from my experience i've never experienced that myself. However the stereotype apparently does exist out there and that's where this comment came from. I read that on another site from an asian (self proclaimed, going to accept it at face value).

There's a big difference between racism and discrimination. Discrimination via the government or in the legal system creates second class citizens and is awful. Discrimination done on a personal level is completely fine. Using your own experiences to generalize whole groups is probably not great, but it's your own experiences. If a store owner gets robbed by young black men and grows to distrust young black men that he doesn't know, is it racism? Or are they not allowed to hold such generalizations when it's been backed up by their own life experiences?

I believe that racism can only exist when you apply it on an individual basis. You know the person and treat them differently due to their ethnicity or color of their skin. That's not a generalization, but rather you applying a different set of rules over stuff they can't control. It's far different than a complete stranger.
 
heatlesssun said:
Then just say upfront only certain ethic groups are welcome. Apparently it's only racism when that's the case. Makes things easier for everyone. And that's fine with me some people are going to call that racist. Because that's what it is.
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Now that would just get me hauled in front of the rights tribunal and in fact I want those people to contact me, rent is rent. Instead i say "this is not a negotiation, prices and services are fixed". It's a part of their culture that demands they ask for the deal "If I pay in cash , no tax right?" is the other one... let me get this straight, you're going to mail me 2000 dollars cash for a weeks rental and get no receipt or valid proof you even booked to save 13%. That's wise. They back off that one too.

The one I reject outright is when people ask , we have 16 people for a place that accommodates 12, and when you say no, they come back "OK we only bring 12" then they get pissed when you won't rent to them no matter what because you know they are bald faced lying.

But that's life, you deal with it, doesn't mean the issues aren't incoming from those ethnicities, that would be a lie. Instead you learn to adapt even when it frustrates you (as it does me on any dickering, from anyone).
 
Hypergreatthing said:
Read a few posts back about someone's experience with cleaning up after asians who rent. Should i just dismiss that as nonsense? I also read that the generalization of asians when it comes to business is that they're cheap and haggle over everything. I didn't even know this generalization existed and from my experience i've never experienced that myself. However the stereotype apparently does exist out there and that's where this comment came from. I read that on another site from an asian (self proclaimed, going to accept it at face value).

There's a big difference between racism and discrimination. Discrimination via the government or in the legal system creates second class citizens and is awful. Discrimination done on a personal level is completely fine. Using your own experiences to generalize whole groups is probably not great, but it's your own experiences. If a store owner gets robbed by young black men and grows to distrust young black men that he doesn't know, is it racism? Or are they not allowed to hold such generalizations when it's been backed up by their own life experiences?

I believe that racism can only exist when you apply it on an individual basis. You know the person and treat them differently due to their ethnicity or color of their skin. That's not a generalization, but rather you applying a different set of rules over stuff they can't control. It's far different than a complete stranger.
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All that BS doesn't matter. It's like you ppl never even read the article. The host was vindictive and premeditated in her racism, like she planned to do this shit from the start.

Suh booked Barker’s place for a long weekend with her fiance in February 2017 a month in advance for $250 a night. When Suh later asked if it was OK to bring two friends and two dogs along, Barker said it was fine but the group would need to pay an additional $50 a night, according to screenshots of their text messages.

On the day of the booking, the foursome drove for hours in the rain and snow to Big Bear. Minutes away from the house, Suh texted Barker to let them know they were close and to confirm the cost of the stay. According to Suh, Barker then denied she ever agreed to having two extra guests and canceled the reservation, despite Suh sending her screenshots of their earlier agreement.

...but Barker canceled the reservation by text message minutes before they arrived,stating: “I wouldn’t rent it to u if u were the last person on earth” and “One word says it all. Asian”.

When Suh said she’d complain to Airbnb about the racist remark, Barker replied: “It’s why we have Trump … and I will not allow this country to be told what to do by foreigners.”
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I don't know about you but they fucking drove from SF to Big Bear and that is a fucking crazy drive in the rain and snow only to be screwed so badly then to have race thrown on top of that. All this BS brought up by these racist posters doesn't mean shit here because it was over before it even started.


Also what's really disturbing is that you all are on a tech website dominated by tech derived or produced from Asia, yes those damn Asians. smh
 
Simplyfun said:
But that's life, you deal with it, doesn't mean the issues aren't incoming from those ethnicities, that would be a lie. Instead you learn to adapt even when it frustrates you (as it does me on any dickering, from anyone).
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Every generation of my family on US soil "adapted" and I'm done with that crap. I refuse to "adapt" the way prior generations in my family have. Don't want certain folks at an airbib, just say so. For some reason it's only racist if it's upfront. Which is beyond ridiculous looking at racism in the US.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
Read a few posts back about someone's experience with cleaning up after asians who rent. Should i just dismiss that as nonsense? I also read that the generalization of asians when it comes to business is that they're cheap and haggle over everything. I didn't even know this generalization existed and from my experience i've never experienced that myself. However the stereotype apparently does exist out there and that's where this comment came from. I read that on another site from an asian (self proclaimed, going to accept it at face value).

There's a big difference between racism and discrimination. Discrimination via the government or in the legal system creates second class citizens and is awful. Discrimination done on a personal level is completely fine. Using your own experiences to generalize whole groups is probably not great, but it's your own experiences. If a store owner gets robbed by young black men and grows to distrust young black men that he doesn't know, is it racism? Or are they not allowed to hold such generalizations when it's been backed up by their own life experiences?

I believe that racism can only exist when you apply it on an individual basis. You know the person and treat them differently due to their ethnicity or color of their skin. That's not a generalization, but rather you applying a different set of rules over stuff they can't control. It's far different than a complete stranger.
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OK, so that's your goalpost for racism: you have to "know the person and treat them differently due to their ethnicity or color of their skin." You do realize that your goalpost implies that people in 1950s Alabama who refused to serve blacks weren't racist as long as they didn't know the people they were referring service to?
 
alexyang said:
OK, so that's your goalpost for racism: you have to "know the person and treat them differently due to their ethnicity or color of their skin." You do realize that your goalpost implies that people in 1950s Alabama who refused to serve blacks weren't racist as long as they didn't know the people they were referring service to?
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I think some people here have not a clue as to what caused the Civil Right Movement. How can it be reeducation if one never understood in the first place?

I've said many times on this subject that from a personal perspective what drive the Civil Right Movement was exactly this kind of behavior from people that lived through it but time and time again, so what?

And that's why we have people complaining about SJWs to this day.
 
heatlesssun said:
I was raised by parents who lived in a society that thought this and didn't see much fine with it.
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Ok. So if you're a guy and you have a thing for tall blonde women, that's discriminating against all women for a certain type. If you're a guy and you don't want to date men or trans people, that's discriminating against them as well.
Most people would consider this completely normal. You're saying it's not fine?
Discrimination isn't a bad thing. You make choices depending on what you like. There's no right or wrong to it.
 
"such as vacation rentals, hostel beds, or hotel rooms."

Is this a 'I see what you did there' moment, or is it an ironic typo?
 
Hypergreatthing said:
Ok. So if you're a guy and you have a thing for tall blonde women, that's discriminating against all women for a certain type.
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I have no idea what point you can make to a black man with half a brain about this particular subject. Or for that matter any other interracial relationship. In race matters NOTHING is more contentious than interracial romantic relationships from any side. The shear lack of understanding that's being displayed here by some on race matters, some "reeducation" might be in order.
 
alexyang said:
OK, so that's your goalpost for racism: you have to "know the person and treat them differently due to their ethnicity or color of their skin." You do realize that your goalpost implies that people in 1950s Alabama who refused to serve blacks weren't racist as long as they didn't know the people they were referring service to?
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I think you read that backwards... If I rent out my house and EVERY time I rent it to a martian the place is trashed, most people would find it reasonable to NOT rent it to martians. On the other hand, if laws are passed banning martians from renting houses MOST people would have a problem with that.

Whether you're talking about "genders", race, or sexualtiy, I never understood the liberal (literal sense of the word) application of discrimination laws. If some guy doesn't want to make your wedding cake because he finds it offensive that you'd marry a tractor... WHY WOULD YOU WANT A CAKE FROM HIM?! That shouldn't be illegal, if he can keep his business afloat without serving tractor lovers more power to him, I'm sure some tractor loving baker will open up shop to take advantage of the under-served market.

But back to the topic at hand... the renter was dumb as a box of rocks. If you're going to hold racist views don't get into the service industry, and failing that, don't leave proof that you violated the law because of your racist views.
For example, I KNOW one of my old landlords discriminated against anyone with a family (illegal as shit fyi) but did he ever incriminate himself verbally or in writing? Hell no. Were there any tenants in that apartment complex with children under the age of 18? Hell no. I'm not advocating discrimination, but I am saying that when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.
 
heatlesssun said:
I have no idea what point you can make to a black man with half a brain about this particular subject. Or for that matter any other interracial relationship. In race matters NOTHING is more contentious than interracial romantic relationships from any side. The shear lack of understanding that's being displayed here by some on race matters, some "reeducation" might be in order.
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I'm sorry, i have no idea on how to interpret what you just posted.
What does discrimination or this case have you do with you being black or interracial relationships?
 
capt_cope said:
I think you read that backwards... If I rent out my house and EVERY time I rent it to a martian the place is trashed, most people would find it reasonable to NOT rent it to martians.
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1) This is racist. 2) When promoting an accommodation say that upfront. It's still racist whenever that part of the contract is communicated.
 
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