Might be done with AIO's

I had a Corsair AIO go bad on me after about 18 or maybe 24 months. It was researching the blue screens that made me figure out taht the pump had failed (yay internet). I picked up a Phanteks TC14PE which has worked well. After that experience I built a computer with my son and then did a case swap on mine. So the failed AIO got me in to building PC's so at least some good came out of it.

The only way I'd go back to some form of water cooling would be if I got a case that wouldn't fit a large HSF like the Quadstellar from Deepcool.
 
I'm afraid I have to agree with the premise of this thread.

I just had to apply for RMA of my Corsair H115i. This will be the second AIO cooler from Corsair that I have had to RMA.

It saddens me actually. The concept is so beautiful and the combination of a Corsair AIO with my Air 540 makes for the cleanest, best looking build I have ever done.
I actually have 2 of them. An Air 540 with an H110i GT on a 6800K, and an Air 540 with an H115i on a 5820K. I've had to replace both at about the 1 year point.
The H110i GT pump gave out. The H115i just wont cool anymore. The pump says it is working, the fans work, but no cooling. If I didn't know better, or do I, I would say the damn thing is empty.

When these crap out, I am going back to custom where you can see the water level and monitor the flow. It is not that much more expensive now if you pick your parts right. Well, actually close to double but if you factor in that I am paying for shipping again and the time involved in fucking with it...

Maybe things will improve. I hope so. I sure like the simplicity.
 
I wonder if EK's new budget line will fare any better in reliability? About the same cost as a Corsair of the same size.

I just wish more large 140mm, dual tower HSF companies would make them like the dark rock pro 3. I love the way it looks but I won't downgrade for it.
 
i also just rma'd my second h115i. first one made it from may to december 2016. second just died last week. 6-7 months before pump failure is not so good. :(

not going to give up on the aio cooler but, i am going to sell the h115i and try the evga clc 280 instead.
 
Most complaints in here seem to be about Corsair. I've been using NZXT for 4 years now and have never had an issue.
 
I went to a Thermalright true spirit 140 and never looked back. All of my AIOs got noisy over a period of over a year. They just start whining like an old harddrive and it bugs the hell out of me.
 
My wife's prebuilt is coming with basically an H55 (the HSF options they offered were more expensive) and I plan on changing it out after 6 months or so with a Cryorig unit.

Asetek makes most of these units so I wonder if NZXT or other brands have a better Asetek unit?
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
My wife's prebuilt is coming with basically an H55 (the HSF options they offered were more expensive) and I plan on changing it out after 6 months or so with a Cryorig unit.

Asetek makes most of these units so I wonder if NZXT or other brands have a better Asetek unit?
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As far as I know CLCs made by Asetek all use the same basic pump, .. Each OEM company, like Coolit , Apaltek and Asetek each have their own pump designs. I know Corsair uses both CoolIT and Asetek, maybe others too. It's quite hard to find out who the actual manufacturer of each CLC is .. and even harder to find out what their pump specifications are.

Alphacool and Swiftech also make AIO systems, but these are not CLC. The Alphacool OEM sell as Fractal Design Kelvin, be quiet! Silent Loop and Alphacool Eisbaer. At this time Swiftech is only doing their own X in H140, H220 & H240 sizes, and X2 / X2 Prestige in H220, H240 and H320 sizes.

AIOs like these have much better pumps, copper radiators, proper fittings and hoses with fill plug for topping up / servicing system. Not all of these AIOs are not available in USA because of Asetek's USA patents giving the complete control of any AIO/CLC using the concept of pump incorporated onto the waterblock. Yeah, I know. It's a very broad all encompassing area to licence to someone as their idea, but it is what it is.

I can only find one review with comparisons and it's testing Skylla 120 against 240mm radiators .. an no sound level data .. but they do say it's "noise levels quite high" while "the pump is pleasantly quiet".
https://www.cowcotland.com/articles/2266-4/watercooling-aio-xigmatek-scylla-120.html
 
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I think if I were to go back to liquid (due to making a build in a case where a top tier HSF would not fit) I'd try EK - https://www.ekfluidgaming.com/ $160.00. It's all aluminum but as long as everything is the same grade of material it should be fine. 50% more than an H100 but not far off of other brands out their. Also not a CLC but it seems easy enough to install.
 
Currently using a NH-U14s and its performing amazing, I think it's as good as my NH-D14 that I had years ago and it's about half the size. I also am using the blower cooler on my Titan X with CLP and it stays near silent unless my ambient gets over 27c.

I put the air coolers on to take time cleaning my waterloop, this was about 2 months ago, haven't felt the urge to put it back together. I will probably dabble with watercooling again when I do a new build but for now I'm fine being back on air where my only maintenance is checking the case filters once every month or so.
 
Armenius said:
[H] supports drag and drop image hosting, you know. You don't need to use Photobucket or imgur to post images here.
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Are you saying I can drag and drop inages but I cannot select an image from a file and post it?
I can do it from normal website images, but not from Photobucket .. nor can I do it from my computer Win7 image viewer, Paint, or file folders.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
 
doyll said:
Are you saying I can drag and drop inages but I cannot select an image from a file and post it?
I can do it from normal website images, but not from Photobucket .. nor can I do it from my computer Win7 image viewer, Paint, or file folders.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
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Just drag images from your file explorer and drop them in the reply box.

upload_2017-7-11_11-18-38.png


If your images are already uploaded elsewhere then you can just paste the URL and the forum software should automatically embed the image if it's a direct link to the image. You can force the issue by putting img tags around the URL.
 
Thanks!
Most forums I post on have image button like here, and when it's opened it give a choice of uploading image from computer or from host using URL .. obviously that option is not here. I just assumed that Hardforum (like many websites) did not host images.
Really appreciate the help!
 
kirbyrj said:
A brief search of the internet shows that the AIO/CLC designation is interchangeable. Everywhere from Anandtech and Tomshardware to manufacturers like Corsair, EK, and NZXT use AIO and not CLC. I wouldn't be dogmatic about the designation.
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I think you are looking in the wrong places.

While all CLCs are AIOS, not all AIOs are CLC. AIO compasses them all. CLCs are the factory sealed group. Some companies do not what the public to know what is different or how it makes a difference in performance and life expectancy. It's all part of the CLC 'water cooling' hype that started many years ago.

Here are links about AIO and CLC
http://www.swiftech.com/aio.aspx
http://www.bequiet.com/en/watercooler/732
http://www.fractal-design.com/home/news/new-celsius-series-all-in-one-water-cooling
https://www.alphacool.com/shop/sets-und-systeme/eisbaer/20225/alphacool-eisbaer-240-cpu-black
http://www.overclock.net/t/1590547/why-you-should-probably-not-buy-a-clc-cooler/0_20

I will be specific about the differences.

The difference is AIOs (All in One) are all open loop. They have fill plug, proper hose fittings, usually copper radiators and can be taken apart to replace defective parts or cut hoses to custom lengths .. none of which can be done on CLCs. Also as the chart shows, AIOs have more powerful, higher amp, higher L/h coolant flow rate pumps in them. Many AIOs advertise that they can be expanded to include additional waterblocks and/or radiators.

CLCs (Closed Loop Cooler) are sealed when manufactured with no provisions for topping up coolant, changing fittings, hoses, pump, etc. Something goes wrong and whole system has to be replaced.

Hope that helps you understand the 'dogmatic' difference between AIOs that are not CLCs and CLCs.
 
I understand the difference that you and Nenu are trying to make. I just think it is an artificial distinction as AIO is a catchall term for any non-custom WC kit.

Anandtech - AIO used for CLC
Tomshardware - CLC used for Swiftech AIO
NZXT - AIO used for their CLC products
Coolermaster - AIO used for their CLC products
Sapphire - AIO used for AIO and CLC interchangeably
Overclockers.uk - AIO used for CLC

I could literally post hundreds of examples.

Either way. I went back air cooling also. Scythe FUMA for me :D.
 
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kirbyrj said:
I understand the difference that you and Nenu are trying to make. I just think it is an artificial distinction as AIO is a catchall term for any non-custom WC kit.

Anandtech - AIO used for CLC
Tomshardware - CLC used for Swiftech AIO
NZXT - AIO used for their CLC products
Coolermaster - AIO used for their CLC products
Sapphire - AIO used for AIO and CLC interchangeably
Overclockers.uk - AIO used for CLC

I could literally post hundreds of examples.

Either way. I went back air cooling also. Scythe FUMA for me :D.
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Go ahead and post "literally post hundreds of examples." That does not make it any more right or correct or accurate. All it proves is how many posters don't know what the difference. is.

AIO = All in One
CLC = Closed Loop Cooler.

All CLCs are AIOs but not all AIOs are CLCs.

That is the simple, honest, and truthful answer. But is not what many who do not really care about what they really are will tell you. Many of them will claim their CLC is just as quiet as a D15 and 10-20c cooler. But anyone who has used both knows that is not true. ;)

I have not used / tested the Fuma myself, but know a few who have. It is definitely a good little cooler but being little it is not as quiet as others .. not that it is very loud either. Just not as quiet as some of the others with same or maybe a few degrees better cooling. I suspect if it was strapped onto a 300-350w CPU it would struggle very hard to keep it cool .. and if it did keep is cool enough it would not be doing it as quietly as some of it's bigger brethren can. But I doubt many if any of us will be running a CPU that is using that much power/making that much heat anyway.

Please let us know if you get one. Always interested in hearing other test results.
 
My point is that if literally thousands upon thousands of people are getting it wrong along with other Tech sites and multiple manufacturers then it isn't an important distinction. That is my only point. I'm not disagreeing with you or agreeing with you.

I really don't hear the fan noise of the FUMA. But that is definitely subjective.
 
What makes you think they don't realize the difference? I'm getting the impression you don't understand what the difference is.
Saying a CLC is a AIO is true.
But the AIO that are not CLCs never use the term "CLC" to discribe them.
AIOs that are not CLC are the ones I listed a few posts ago. There is only a handful of them, and none of them use the name 'CLC' in their discriptions .. because they are not CLCs.

The key difference is they are open loop and have fill ports, but they are also much better built .. with proper fittings, copper radiators, more powerful pumps with higher coolant flow rates.

But the fact they are also better built is not what makes them AIOs that are not CLCs.

The difference is CLCs do not have fill ports .. because they are all hermetically sealed at the factory. It's the fill port that separates the AIO that are not CLC for all the others that are CLC. Some people (like me) simply use 'AIO' and 'CLC' to differentiate by calling the few that have fill ports AIOs .. and all that are hermetically sealed at the factory CLCs.

Because there is no AIO sub-group for AIOs with fill ports. ;)
But there is an AIO sub-group for hermetically sealed and that sub-group is CLC. ;)

It takes a lot of heat (serious overclock and CPU working 100%) to make the fans go full speed. Even on my i7 920 @ 4.2GHz my fans rarely spin above 1100-1200rpm.
 
Rvenger said:
I went to a Thermalright true spirit 140 and never looked back. All of my AIOs got noisy over a period of over a year. They just start whining like an old harddrive and it bugs the hell out of me.
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Although my H100 never got loud, I could no longer see a point to it. On a 7700k, the TDP is low enough that I could go back to air. Glad I did. It's very quiet and keeps the chip cool. I don't know though, with all these large sockets coming back in to play, AIO's might have more relevancy soon. I just didn't think they were all that necessary on 115x sockets with their low TDP's.
 
I completely understand the difference between CLC and AIOs with fill ports. I think when I read the post linked to overclock.net my understanding was that the author's point was that AIO's were pre-filled coolers with fill ports, and CLC were those without. But I understand your point of CLC being a subset of AIO. My concern was that AIO wasn't applied to CLC like I thought the overclock.net author was implying. I'm sure we agree that AIO is a broadly used term for any number of different products.
 
I've never had a CLC go bad on me, and in general don't mind them. However I have my case on my desk <1m away from me. NCase M1, so quite open, lots of mesh holes etc. I've had a h60 120mm, Deepcool 240mm, and (in a previous case of similar size ITX) a H90 140mm. I've heard the pump on each of these. I have my fans at a very low RPM in general especially while idle, which my system is generally at most of the time. (not anything intensive). Pump noises are often high pitched, so they drown out quiet fan noises/air moving. This is why I've stuck to Air personally, though if there was a no-noise pump (ha), I'd gladly hop on this as my GTX 1070 definitely heats up the small D9L heatsink in my small case during gaming, increasing CPU temps quite a lot.

Ideally I'd like to use the Noctua NH C14 in my case (for those who know its layout) as it would help bring in cool air for the CPU, but it's discontinued and the C14S only fits with a slim fan, and the Dark Rock TF2 has compatibility issues. Shame!
 
Switched from Noctua D14 to Coolermaster XL140. Temps went down 10-15C, pump is inaudible.
 
M76 said:
Switched from Noctua D14 to Coolermaster XL140. Temps went down 10-15C, pump is inaudible.
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Your D14 installation was bad and / or case airflow had a serious problems or you are telling porkies. ;)
Most honest reviews show the 140XL to be 0-3c cooler than coolers like NH-D14. I say 'honest reviews' because many test in a case using room ambient air temp as baseline .. they are not testing cooler against cooler, but are instead testing how cool their system runs with different coolers. To test cooler against cooler the air temp going to cooler has to be the same for all cooler, and the air temp in a case changes wiht different coolers .. even more when CLCs are used because the radiator is mounted to case thus separating radiator intake air from heated exhaust.

CoolerMaster rate the pump at <25dB. A very quiete room is about 20dB, so pump is audible in a quiet room. It might not be audible inside of a case 3 feet way, but then again it might be.
Or is it because the 140XL noise level of the fans(approx 60dB) drowns out any other sound from our system? :D
 
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doyll said:
Your D14 installation was bad and / or case airflow had a serious problems or you are telling porkies. ;)
Our is it because the 140XL noise level of the fans(approx 60dB) drowns out any other sound from our system? :D
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You can joke all you want, the facts tell a different story. Of course the fans are controlled, they only spin faster when needed, but nowhere near full speed. Anything over 5v for cm's jetflo fans is unbearably loud. When the cpu runs full load on all cores it gets slightly louder than what I'd like, yes louder than the noctua, that I had in multiple systems, so it was installed multiple times, was the installation bad each time? I don't think so.
 
M76 said:
You can joke all you want, the facts tell a different story. Of course the fans are controlled, they only spin faster when needed, but nowhere near full speed. Anything over 5v for cm's jetflo fans is unbearably loud. When the cpu runs full load on all cores it gets slightly louder than what I'd like, yes louder than the noctua, that I had in multiple systems, so it was installed multiple times, was the installation bad each time? I don't think so.
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Actually you have not presented all the 'facts'. I did say D14 install or case airflow had a serious problems. I edited my previous post explaining how if your case airflow was not supplying D14 with cool air your CPU temps could be much higher. Case airflow into cooler when GPU is working hard can easily be 10-20c above room temp .. and that would account for why your CPU temps dropped as much as they did.
 
Never had issues with multiple H110/H110i. Still low temps, still quiet, no leaks. Ones 4 years old now with heavy use..
 
doyll said:
Actually you have not presented all the 'facts'. I did say D14 install or case airflow had a serious problems. I edited my previous post explaining how if your case airflow was not supplying D14 with cool air your CPU temps could be much higher. Case airflow into cooler when GPU is working hard can easily be 10-20c above room temp .. and that would account for why your CPU temps dropped as much as they did.
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I cannot provide facts, because I've sold my D14 years ago. I think doing an "honest" test as you define it is completely pointless. I'm interested what the cooler does in a case when pitted against other coolers under real world circumstances. And one of the biggest advantages of an AIO cooler to an air cooler is that it is not affected that by your ambient case temperature. So on a test bench I'm sure those numbers are realistic and perfectly reasonable. But I don't care. In my real world example I saw a temp drop of at least 10C under load. And I'm sure with improved air flow the NH-D14 can get much closer than that to the XL140. Either way I don't think AIO coolers are pointless. And to prove that I did a quick test.

It turns out the NH-D15 is about 2-3C° better than the XL140, but this time the air flow was provided by no less than 6 high performance (loud ass) fans. What doest this prove? That even a middle class AIO can provide roughly the same cooling performance as the top of the line air cooler. But without having to worry about case airflow.
 
THUMPer said:
Safe to say AIO's are gimmicky.
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The market is currently saturated with a bunch of meh clones. Some of the expandable AIOs look like they'll be around for a bit.

Nenu said:
I cant think of an advantage an AIO will give over a large heatsink if you dont clock much.
Temps will not be in need of improving and noise wont be a problem.
An AIO risks being louder, less reliable and you are paying for the privilege.

Ram compatibility is a limited issue, there is always good enough ram at moderate prices that will fit if you arent a mad overclocker.
Motherboard compatibility doesnt figure at all, heatsinks fit all motherboards for the class of PC they are designed.

Stick with what you have unless you are unhappy with it.
ie you have a good reason to want better performance.
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SPACE. You can cram an AIO into a very tiny case and have very nice cooling, especially if you're fine with mounting it's rad externally. The same cooling performance on air would require a a heatsink that takes up more space. And AIOs can be silent if done correctly. The biggest culprit is the think aluminum radiators most of them use. They require higher noise fans to keep temps in check. OEMs pick their fans based on what unit price makes them the most profit. Replacing the fans on a AIO can make a huge improvement in noise, and you often lose little if any cooling capacity as the tiny radiators are the main limiting factor.
 
M76 said:
I cannot provide facts, because I've sold my D14 years ago. I think doing an "honest" test as you define it is completely pointless. I'm interested what the cooler does in a case when pitted against other coolers under real world circumstances. And one of the biggest advantages of an AIO cooler to an air cooler is that it is not affected that by your ambient case temperature. So on a test bench I'm sure those numbers are realistic and perfectly reasonable. But I don't care. In my real world example I saw a temp drop of at least 10C under load. And I'm sure with improved air flow the NH-D14 can get much closer than that to the XL140. Either way I don't think AIO coolers are pointless. And to prove that I did a quick test.

It turns out the NH-D15 is about 2-3C° better than the XL140, but this time the air flow was provided by no less than 6 high performance (loud ass) fans. What doest this prove? That even a middle class AIO can provide roughly the same cooling performance as the top of the line air cooler. But without having to worry about case airflow.
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D14 and D15 have near identical 'real' performance with same fans.
In the end there are only real and unreal test results. I prefer real to unreal. ;)
 
Gman1979 said:
SPACE. You can cram an AIO into a very tiny case and have very nice cooling, especially if you're fine with mounting it's rad externally. The same cooling performance on air would require a a heatsink that takes up more space. And AIOs can be silent if done correctly. The biggest culprit is the think aluminum radiators most of them use. They require higher noise fans to keep temps in check. OEMs pick their fans based on what unit price makes them the most profit. Replacing the fans on a AIO can make a huge improvement in noise, and you often lose little if any cooling capacity as the tiny radiators are the main limiting factor.
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My point wasnt aimed at mini ITX but you are of course correct.
You have all sorts of juggling for a higher end gaming PC.
 
Nenu said:
My point wasnt aimed at mini ITX but you are of course correct.
You have all sorts of juggling for a higher end gaming PC.
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I helped build a very quiet and cool gaming PC in a RVZ01 (382mm (W) x 105mm (H) x 350mm (D), 14 liters volume). To me that's a very small case.
 
doyll said:
I helped build a very quiet and cool gaming PC in a RVZ01 (382mm (W) x 105mm (H) x 350mm (D), 14 liters volume). To me that's a very small case.
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Cool.
Not sure why you are telling me though...
 
doyll said:
D14 and D15 have near identical 'real' performance with same fans.
In the end there are only real and unreal test results. I prefer real to unreal. ;)
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the "thing" with real vs unreal test results is that unreal test is what truly matter at the end, real isolated cooler performance means nothing when in realworld usage it can perform poorly versus an AIO due the advantages an AIO/CLC have, most of the time (if not always) an AIO/CLC perform better than top of the line air coolers because they recirculate hot air inside the case increasing overall system temperature, they suck hot air from the GPUS which reduce dramatically the CPU cooling performance which it's bad when someone is using overclocked aftermarket cooled cards pumping 350W inside a case, even worse with SLI/Xfire, AIO/CLC are also easier to provide fresh air..

This is the reason why almost everyone see big gains in cooling performance switching to AIO/CLC, I had a big horrible fucking time redoing all my case airflow when switched from Corsair H100i v2 to R1 Ultimate, to NH-D15, to PH-TC14PE, and then settled in TRUE 140, just to mitigate the effects of not using AIO anymore, and keep similar system temp, with the switch from AIO to Air cooling, GPU Was 3C hotter, RAM was 2C hotter, CPU 10C hotter, Motherboard 6C hotter, VRM 12C hotter, fans running at higher RPM making everything overall Louder.. so yes I can understand the feelings on overall people who don't have the time or even don't want to spend more money to redone ALL case fans and airflow because a change of cooler.

Of course Air cooling are overall quieter, run better with low RPM fans, but for some people that's not enough versus AIO/CLC benefits, and that's why generally they prefer to refer to unreal test, because even being unreal they are mostly made to achieve a realworld-like environment more reflecting of what the end user is going to achieve and receive out of the box instead of spending lot of hours tinkering, man, some people even doesn't mess with airflow and that's the vastly amount of pc users, people like you and me are very few, most people just want a nice, clean looking case with lot of lights and colors, and that's what typically AIO/CLC Achieve.
 
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Have a Phanteks PH-TC14PE, and i'd recommend it to anyone. Very few AIOs can beat it at the same sound level, and i mean VERY FEW, and those that do will be considerably pricier. Not to mention you save having to worry about it leaking or the pump dying. It really is the best price-performance cooler on the market.
 
doyll said:
I helped build a very quiet and cool gaming PC in a RVZ01 (382mm (W) x 105mm (H) x 350mm (D), 14 liters volume). To me that's a very small case.
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Just supporting you and showing that small systems do not need CLCs to cool very well.

LordBlakeTheGreat said:
Have a Phanteks PH-TC14PE, and i'd recommend it to anyone. Very few AIOs can beat it at the same sound level, and i mean VERY FEW, and those that do will be considerably pricier. Not to mention you save having to worry about it leaking or the pump dying. It really is the best price-performance cooler on the market.
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TC14PE is great cooler and the new fans are even better.
 
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