Bethesda Accused of Bleeding Gamers Dry with Skyrim VR

Megalith

Megalith

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I thought this whining would concern Creation Club (an alternative to paid mods), but now people are angry at Bethesda for “milking” Skyrim: the company recently unveiled yet another version of the 2011 Elder Scrolls title, with VR support, but they are asking gamers to pay $59.99 for it. Did converting the game take more effort than one would think, or is Bethesda just being your typical greedy publisher?

This is a problem I’ve had with the gaming industry in general for years. Games seem to be constantly rereleased, drops of blood extracted from their bodies until they’re downright anemic. But Skyrim has been rereleased four times in six years, which is extreme even for this industry. Let me be clear (again) that I’m not bashing Skyrim because I dislike it or think it’s a bad game. I’ve logged hundreds of hours in it, and I enjoyed most of them. But it’s just one game. No game on the planet deserves this many bites at the apple, at least not without more meaningful overhauls than what it’s received.
 
Bethesda is quickly dropping off my top developers list along with Rockstar. How these companies can milk the same game 3 or more times for full price is ridiculous.
 
I just can't stand Sony anymore, whether the price is fair or not is not the thing I'm concerned about. It's the fact Sony paid Bethesda to keep this exclusive for some time, and it's complete bullshit and I'm sick of this practice. Resident Evil 7 VR is the same thing.
 
It....depends. Is this VR version gonna offer good enough value for consumers? That will be decided when sale numbers come in. Now, they can charge whatever they want. But the market is gonna determine how much it wants the game at the price-points Bethesda sets.
 
SighTurtle said:
It....depends. Is this VR version gonna offer good enough value for consumers? That will be decided when sale numbers come in. Now, they can charge whatever they want. But the market is gonna determine how much it wants the game at the price-points Bethesda sets.
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If it's been re-released 4 times in 6 years, that says about all you need to know about the market.
 
just look at eso you have to buy the game pay for a sub and they still sell crap for real money
 
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It really depends on how much work was required to convert the game for a VR experience. I doubt it was as simple as assigning the camera to the headset and motion controls to the weapons, but I also doubt it was as labor-intensive as building an entirely new game.

I think a more reasonable price-point would have been closer to $40 to add it as DLC to the remastered version of the game everyone already owns. On the other hand, Bethesda probably sees headset owners as more than willing to shell out for premium experiences, considering we paid around $800 for the headset already - and there still isn't a killer-app for VR (some are close, but none are system-sellers beyond the 'wow' factor of VR).
 
Smaller number being sold so any fixed costs are spread amongst a smaller number of copies.
 
Krixon said:
It really depends on how much work was required to convert the game for a VR experience. I doubt it was as simple as assigning the camera to the headset and motion controls to the weapons, but I also doubt it was as labor-intensive as building an entirely new game.
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If I had to guess, I would say it's maybe 2 weeks' worth of work v. 4+ years of development for Skyrim. In other words, I would guess it's literally about 1% of the work making Skyrim was (possibly less). Look at it this way:

Skyrim:
-Concept Art
-Coding
-Models
-Textures
-Lighting
-Game Mechanics (quests, mechanics, etc.)
-Writing
-Sound effects
-Music composition
-Voice Acting
-Mapping
-Playtesting

VR Skyrim:
-Code tweaks
-Couple new HUD modifications
-Testing

I mean you can play Skyrim in VR right now with VorpX and that's with no help from Bethesda. I'm not saying they didn't do any work, but to even entertain the thought that this is even remotely close to the amount of work that went into making the original is just naive.
 
tetris42 said:
If I had to guess, I would say it's maybe 2 weeks' worth of work v. 4+ years of development for Skyrim. In other words, I would guess it's literally about 1% of the work making Skyrim was (possibly less). Look at it this way:

Skyrim:
-Concept Art
-Coding
-Models
-Textures
-Lighting
-Game Mechanics (quests, mechanics, etc.)
-Writing
-Sound effects
-Music composition
-Voice Acting
-Mapping
-Playtesting

VR Skyrim:
-Code tweaks
-Couple new HUD modifications
-Testing

I mean you can play Skyrim in VR right now with VorpX and that's with no help from Bethesda. I'm not saying they didn't do any work, but to even entertain the thought that this is even remotely close to the amount of work that went into making the original is just naive.
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I never said it was close, just that it fell somewhere between the two - I also doubt that it took 2 weeks to port.
 
Ocellaris said:
People could just stop buying rehashed Bethesda shit, the problem would fix itself.
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That's exactly the way to fix this. The market for AAA VR games is almost non-existent, and Bethesda knows that. I'm sure that Skyrim VR and Fallout VR (Doom VFR is more or less a different game) are an experiment to see what people will pay for premium VR experiences. If the sales aren't what Bethesda wants, I'm pretty sure they will adjust the price accordingly - and future Devs will follow suit.

I'll be skipping the VR versions of Fallout and Skyrim until they fall to about $20 during some kind of sale, because that's what they're worth to me.

Note: I played Skyrim VR at E3 and, while impressive, is absolutely not conducive to the multi-hour gaming binges we are used to. The demo I played clocked in at around 20 minutes (once the rep explained everything and got me set up on the Vive) and that was more than enough for me.
 
I find both Skyrim and Fallout 4 sort of run like shit. I am really curious if Bethesda is going to improve the game engines to keep the frame rate over 90 fps to avoid reprojection on decent gaming setups.
 
If I'm going to wear my headset for 200hrs, its going to be a for a new game I havent already played to death.
And I'm sure as fuck not going to pay full whack again for a game I already finished 5years ago.
Serves them right this is kicking them where it hurts.

A free extra, great.
What they are doing, not a chance.
 
Ocellaris said:
I find both Skyrim and Fallout 4 sort of run like shit. I am really curious if Bethesda is going to improve the game engines to keep the frame rate over 90 fps to avoid reprojection on decent gaming setups.
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Well, and Fallout 4 (and I think Skyrim as well) both seem to have physics issues above 60 FPS. So unless they re-tooled the engine, I am not sure how these are going to work.

Definitely waiting for reviews before buying.
 
I like Skyrim, I like the mods for Skyrim, and VR Skyrim would be interesting to me. $60 interesting? If it didn't have the usual Bethesda bugs, sure, I think it'd be an easy sell. If it had mod/custom quest support? I would definitely be down. The only thing that stops me currently is not having a VR setup.

Skyrim's storyline is great, but not to the point that I'd want to play it on repeat for months, at least to me. What keeps the game being played is the mods and all the custom quests people come up with. I mean hell, some of the magic/spellcasting overhauls have made it actually fun to play a sorcerer type of character, instead of just picking what kind of weapon you're going to be the ultimate murder hobo with.
 
Krixon said:
I never said it was close, just that it fell somewhere between the two - I also doubt that it took 2 weeks to port.
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Again, you could literally hop in Skyrim right now with VorpX, I think also with VireIO. I'm sure the Bethesda version will be more polished than that, but what is there to port? Tweak the code for VR rendering, set up motion controls, make sure the movement and speeds work right, change the HUD to look good in VR. If it's just one or two guys doing everything, sure, it could take more than 2 weeks. If it's a full development team, I guess I'm missing what's so arduous about modifying an already finished game.
 
Did they fix any of the farking numerous quest bugs? I remember a few quests I couldn't complete because of well-known bugs. I only found out some couldn't be completed after searching online. Some buggy quests could only be completed after extensive internet searches revealed some convoluted solution that nobody would ever figure out on their own(well, a few out of a few million did, I guess).

I wasn't playing Skyrim until a couple of years ago when I got the legendary edition for $5 on sale, so I was completely surprised by the level of buggery I experienced.

If they fixed any of that crap, it might be worth more than $5, but they can go fark themselves at $60, unless they improved the textures even more than the remaster AND fixed bugs.
 
tetris42 said:
Again, you could literally hop in Skyrim right now with VorpX, I think also with VireIO. I'm sure the Bethesda version will be more polished than that, but what is there to port? Tweak the code for VR rendering, set up motion controls, make sure the movement and speeds work right, change the HUD to look good in VR. If it's just one or two guys doing everything, sure, it could take more than 2 weeks. If it's a full development team, I guess I'm missing what's so arduous about modifying an already finished game.
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I'm actually pretty interested in trying out VorpX - maybe when I can find sometime I'll give it a go. My only computing device for the next week is a Galaxy Tab S.

I'm also sure that the effort going into the port is minimal compared to the original creation of the game - you are absolutely correct. But I do see Bethesda modifying tons a assets on a more creative level to work properly on a headset. When I played it, I didn't notice that anything had been changed from a quality perspective, but I'm sure meshes had to be reconsidered in at least a few cases in order to make it work. You can take anything in your hand (sword, spell, sheild) and put it right up to your face. On that level, collision detection might have gone through a bit of an overhaul.

There wasn't much in the way of changing the UI that I could see, but the demo was very limited, and you had a Bethesda guy in your ear telling you what to do (which was infuriating). The menu system is pretty clunky right now, but it could change.

I was a bit shocked when I saw the price tag for the game - I figured it would be a DLC add on for, at most, $40.
 
MavericK said:
Well, and Fallout 4 (and I think Skyrim as well) both seem to have physics issues above 60 FPS. So unless they re-tooled the engine, I am not sure how these are going to work.

Definitely waiting for reviews before buying.
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they somewhat fixed the physics tied to refresh rate in fallout 4, (with the exception of a nasty bug with terminals that again was fixed) and it was entirely fixed in the Skyrim Special Edition.

Im over 200 hours of heavy modded fallout with my new character and about 80 mods with my monitor set to 120hz and the game it's playing perfectly same fluctuating between 70 and 120FPS (the engine is capped at refresh rate).

with Skyrim special edition they announced they were fixing the physics tied to engine, but actually after over 1000 hours in skyrim I didn't want to play again and waste again tenths of hours just modding, so I passed from it.
 
Araxie said:
they somewhat fixed the physics tied to refresh rate in fallout 4, (with the exception of a nasty bug with terminals that again was fixed) and it was entirely fixed in the Skyrim Special Edition.

Im over 200 hours of heavy modded fallout with my new character and about 80 mods with my monitor set to 120hz and the game it's playing perfectly same fluctuating between 70 and 120FPS (the engine is capped at refresh rate).

with Skyrim special edition they announced they were fixing the physics tied to engine, but actually after over 1000 hours in skyrim I didn't want to play again and waste again tenths of hours just modding, so I passed from it.
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Good to know...I started playing FO4 again and it seemed wonky at higher refresh rates, but maybe something else was going on.
 
Welcome to the 21st century where everything is supposed to be free. 60$ for hundreds of hours of entertainment is a fucking god send. I just spent 40$ at the movies for 4 hours of fun. Games are fucking cheap get a job you hippies.
 
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Maybe if they went back and rereleased Morrowind and Oblivion (but mainly Morrowind) I'd jump. But I'm perfectly happy with my normal copies of it. :D <3 Bethesda.
 
Well the overview is abit deceptive. I have only bought Skyrim once, well technically twice, once on Xbox 360 and then PC. Got the newer 64bit Skyrim free. I am a little indifferent to the VR Skyrim for now. Not sure if the price of VR is a good option for me right now.
 
Cliffy B and several other heads of development have made it quite clear that to make an AAA game you essentially can't be creative and have to use a very specific formula to make the game, (How many games coming out in the next 2 years look like witcher 3 clones?). Since it takes years and costs in the 8 figure range to make and market one of these games you can see why they aren't dropping regularly. We've also seen in the case of Assassins Creed how stagnant a game can be if you are failing to re imagine and improve your formula significantly. Besides they have been putting a lot of effort into elder scrolls online which is their first heavy MMORPG in this universe that is probably using most if not all of their creative teams in order to continue releasing new content up until now.
 
Guys, this is a tremendous value. Think of it this way, you're getting a whole VR upgrade for the cost of three horse armor DLCs! What a steal! :rolleyes:

Extra-Titanian said:
Maybe if they went back and rereleased Morrowind and Oblivion (but mainly Morrowind) I'd jump. But I'm perfectly happy with my normal copies of it. :D <3 Bethesda.
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Yeah, Morrowind is still the best in the series, and a VR combat update could actually be a really neat upgrade over Morrowind's combat system.

But why go through that kind of effort when you can sell a Skyrim mod for $60?
 
My thoughts:

1) VR is implemented poorly. Why do people think VR = we must control stuff with motion sticks? Just add in 6 DoF head control, and make a game that works well with it. Looks unnatural as hell seeing those arms and weapons twist around on screen. VR is supposed to enhance immersion, not take away a lot from it.

2) It is priced high because 95% of "VR" games are trash. Developers don't get what makes a different between a good game people want to play and a tech demo / gimmick, which is what most VR games are. This is probably one of the few substantive games out there that supports VR that isn't a simulator of some kind. Once competition comes out, I expect it to drop.

3) There are a number of people who spent a lot of money on VR only to end up playing trashy games. So even though they'll be mad paying full price for a VR DLC, they will do so anyways so their $600+ hardware doesn't collect dust.
 
You see people paying 800$ for helmet and 20-30$ for few hours long experiences - why would any company not try to charge full price for big VR game when they have near 0 competition?
 
Krixon said:
I'm actually pretty interested in trying out VorpX - maybe when I can find sometime I'll give it a go.
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It depends on what you're looking for. It won't turn any game into a full VR experience, but for me it's a godsend. VR games where the character moves around in space makes me almost immediately motion sick. In VorpX I can essentially take a game and turn it into full 3D, but adjust the size of the screen. If it doesn't take up my entire field of vision, I won't get sick.
 
These are the same people who released Skyrim Remastered. Which is a quick cash grab to milk the Skyrim name. Nobody uses Skyrim HD cause all the mods are made for the original Skyrim. Skyrim VR is just a continuation of this mess.
 
NickJames said:
Bethesda is quickly dropping off my top developers list along with Rockstar. How these companies can milk the same game 3 or more times for full price is ridiculous.
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Because people pay for it. They see a market willing to pay, they will charge it. You want them to stop? Don't buy it. It's the same thing with pre-orders. We all hate it but a significant portion of the population will pre-order a game for $70 that comes on a Steam sale for $20 six months later without the bugs.
 
Obviously it takes money to make it work in VR. I would expect maybe as a 10-20$ add-on.

I don't mind re-releases. Especially for gaems that were console exclusive, or remain bound to old platforms at stupidly low resolutions and bad framerates.

Plus, you don't have to buy them. They aren't taking away old ones. Publishers should continue the practice. It's only bad when they expect you to pay full AAA price for it again, and don't offer discounts for existing owners on PC, or they drop the original.
 
NickJames said:
How these companies can milk the same game 3 or more times for full price is ridiculous.
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It could also be the case that only a small portion of the company is working on releases while the vast majority are working on the next big title. I mean, that's just a guess... :p
 
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