Skylake-X (Core i9) - Lineup, Specifications and Reviews!

DuronBurgerMan said:
No dog in this fight, but if I were spitballing, I'd say Intel not soldering on a lot of chips was because they had no real competition. Save a little $. If it means slightly lower clockspeeds, who cares? The competition is miles behind anyway, what difference does it make? AMD, on the other hand, needed to do it, to get maximum potential out of their design to claw back to competitiveness. Now that AMD is back in the game, even if still somewhat behind in some metrics, Intel ought to consider soldering again. But I imagine the beancounters probably got used to the savings and extra profits, so it's not so easy to convince them.
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Intel is ran by accountants and AMD is ran by a engineer and thus why you get the choices by those companies. A accountant looks for ways to make more money or save it. A engineer looks for ways to make their product better and damn the costs. Somewhere in the middle is best.
 
Gideon said:
Intel is ran by accountants and AMD is ran by a engineer and thus why you get the choices by those companies. A accountant looks for ways to make more money or save it. A engineer looks for ways to make their product better and damn the costs. Somewhere in the middle is best.
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I understand your sentiment here, but that's BS. They're both run by businessmen. An accountant & and an engineer will both run a company into the ground in very short order. Making a "product better and damn the costs" will kill any business, and doesn't meet with AMD's aiming a the low end for graphics and price-drops on the Ryzen line. Intel's release of the top-performing chips means they're not just being directed by pure accounting, there's a whole lot of engineering going on.
 
Bandalo said:
I understand your sentiment here, but that's BS. They're both run by businessmen. An accountant & and an engineer will both run a company into the ground in very short order. Making a "product better and damn the costs" will kill any business, and doesn't meet with AMD's aiming a the low end for graphics and price-drops on the Ryzen line. Intel's release of the top-performing chips means they're not just being directed by pure accounting, there's a whole lot of engineering going on.
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I don't think your statement is accurate. Linear Technologies has been ran by engineers in a no nonsense manner and has been the most profitable semiconductor business for the past several years. They totally dominated any of their competitors. Sadly they were just purchased by analog devices who is a more marketing/touchy feely company. A lot of really good engineers will probably quit because of the additional BS, but that's what happens when you're a publicly traded company.

This stuff happens all the time. Engineers are pushed aside for marketing folk who have the backing of the "businessmen." It's the reason that stuff is terribly built. I've seen it happen first hand and I've heard many of my engineering friends tell similar stories.
 
Bandalo said:
I understand your sentiment here, but that's BS. They're both run by businessmen. An accountant & and an engineer will both run a company into the ground in very short order. Making a "product better and damn the costs" will kill any business, and doesn't meet with AMD's aiming a the low end for graphics and price-drops on the Ryzen line. Intel's release of the top-performing chips means they're not just being directed by pure accounting, there's a whole lot of engineering going on.
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You would be wrong, I was at Chrysler and I can clearly tell you the difference in mentality each CEO had and their background made the difference. Bad accountants and Engineers can ruin a company a good CEO listens to the regular workers and not just upper management. AMD has a good balance between accounting and engineering and they have turned the company around in a smart way and will see if they go back to being profitable again. Intel has lost it's way and it's obvious, Accounting dominates their choices and Marketing is running with it, Engineering has clearly had to take a back seat. You need a razor sharp focus in big business and I feel Intel has lost that and their current HEDT platform show that lack of focus. A CEO's background will tend to always influence the choices they make or which group they will side with most times.
 
Gideon said:
You are correct, Lisa Su I think has only been there for 2 and half years as CEO.
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And as CEO, she has milked it hard money wise while making sure RTG got killed completely. Not to mention rushing an incomplete product.

Now tell me the background of the Intel CEO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Krzanich

So we can pack the usual BS away again.
 
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Shintai said:
And as CEO, she has milked it hard money wise while making sure RTG got killed completely. Not to mention rushing an incomplete product.

Now tell me the background of the Intel CEO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Krzanich

So we can pack the usual BS away again.
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Paul ran the company for most of these years and he was a economic major and Krzanich has not been good, company has lost focus and the accountants call the shots. Lisa on the other hand has kept a company bleeding cash and not having competitive products running and helped to bring a viable product back to the market. One is on a clear path up the other is not. Krzanich may be a engineer but he seems unwilling to actually lead it as one. Intel is still a powerful company but it's leadership is a mess right now and it's starting to show.
 
Gideon said:
You would be wrong, I was at Chrysler and I can clearly tell you the difference in mentality each CEO had and their background made the difference. Bad accountants and Engineers can ruin a company a good CEO listens to the regular workers and not just upper management. AMD has a good balance between accounting and engineering and they have turned the company around in a smart way and will see if they go back to being profitable again. Intel has lost it's way and it's obvious, Accounting dominates their choices and Marketing is running with it, Engineering has clearly had to take a back seat. You need a razor sharp focus in big business and I feel Intel has lost that and their current HEDT platform show that lack of focus. A CEO's background will tend to always influence the choices they make or which group they will side with most times.
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My point is that you can be a good CEO regardless of background. When you're an engineer, you think in engineering terms. When you're an accountant, you think in accounting terms. Operating any business JUST on those terms will put you quickly out of business. When you're the CEO, you need to think in total business terms.

Engineers don't build the best possible device, they build to the specs provided by management (which are driven by market forces). The "best possible" of almost ANY consumer electronic device is far, far, far more expensive than the average customer will pay. So they have to design the best possible device WITHIN a certain price range. The old engineer joke works here: "Anyone can build you a strong bridge. Only an engineer can build you a bridge JUST strong enough to not collapse".

I think both companies have shifted back and forth over the years. Intel has gotten a bit lazy in the desktop world since they've dominated for so long. AMD has a good set of products coming down the pipe that could be major successes. That being said, Intel has the resources and the in-house knowledge to turn that around pretty damn quick. A couple of tweaks to the existing i9 designs and a revamp of their price structure, and they could quickly rain on AMD's parade.
 
Gideon said:
Paul ran the company for most of these years and he was a economic major and Krzanich has not been good, company has lost focus and the accountants call the shots. Lisa on the other hand has kept a company bleeding cash and not having competitive products running and helped to bring a viable product back to the market. One is on a clear path up the other is not. Krzanich may be a engineer but he seems unwilling to actually lead it as one. Intel is still a powerful company but it's leadership is a mess right now and it's starting to show.
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Yes, Core 2, Nehalem, Sandy Bridge, Skylake etc under his period. And a booming business.

AMDs outlook and result says it all about Lisa Su. The disaster continues.
 
Well, that's what they get for trying to provide relatively neutral coverage. #currentyear
 
Shintai said:
Yes, Core 2, Nehalem, Sandy Bridge, Skylake etc under his period. And a booming business.

AMDs outlook and result says it all about Lisa Su. The disaster continues.
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I don't really care for Lisa Su, per se. But AMD's done a lot better recently than back in the Bulldozer days.

Intel... just feels like the same old Intel. AMD fluctuates periodically between utterly brilliant leadership, and utter morons. Intel just stays consistently "meh."
 
Nihilus1 said:
Wow, Linus tears into Intel hard. I agree, KabyLake X is a joke.

On a plus side, for Intel X299 will have more MB options than Threadripper. Here is a mITX already in the wild:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57850/asrock-delivers-x299-mitx-motherboard/index.html

Even now, Ryzen only has a POS biostar for mITX, meaning TR will have little hope for SFF.
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Just because BIostar where the only PCB shown doesn't make it the only one, in fact the other day MSI, ASUS and ASROCK MITX boards were leaked.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
I don't really care for Lisa Su, per se. But AMD's done a lot better recently than back in the Bulldozer days.

Intel... just feels like the same old Intel. AMD fluctuates periodically between utterly brilliant leadership, and utter morons. Intel just stays consistently "meh."
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Well Hector Ruiz was paid to sabotage, the environment was paid off to ensure that happened, Hector is somewhat between two hard places here.

1) commit perjury in a federal court which is about 20 years in a federal prison which he likely gets raped and murdered anyway.

2) threatens to talk and Intel pay to off him.

Why is it convenient that all the people in the know are all hit with gagging orders? it was just very convenient.
 
Ranulfo said:
Can I get that with a hyper 212+ Evo?
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Are you sure you really want to be asking him that question, the answer will likely leave you dumbfounded.

Of course you can always take the guru3D report as gospel where it was claimed that a stock 10 core was already operating at 85 degrees celsius at stock frequency.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
I don't really care for Lisa Su, per se. But AMD's done a lot better recently than back in the Bulldozer days.

Intel... just feels like the same old Intel. AMD fluctuates periodically between utterly brilliant leadership, and utter morons. Intel just stays consistently "meh."
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Unless it shows in the financials the answer is no. And AMD have pretty much killed RTG too and putting the entire consoles at risk due to stopping small core development.

Lisa Su wants servers, nothing else. And she already failed there big time.
 
Gideon said:
They should be soldered but Intel likes to save money and the thermal cycling argument is a funny joke as that takes extreme temperatures of hot and cold. This will also likely hurt their chance of higher clock speeds on their new HEDT platform as well and make threadripper a even bigger threat.
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Unlike AMD, whose CCX and MCM approaches and 14LPP are used because they are the best technological solutions available, not because AMD likes to save money. <--- one-line sarcasm.

Gideon said:
Intel is ran by accountants and AMD is ran by a engineer and thus why you get the choices by those companies. A accountant looks for ways to make more money or save it. A engineer looks for ways to make their product better and damn the costs. Somewhere in the middle is best.
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No. she is trying to make the most money possible. She must have a former engineering career, but she is not acting as an engineer at her current position.
 
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lutjens said:
I'm not saying any company is evil, but Intel has been firmly in front for 10 years (largely due to missteps by AMD). This has created an Intel that is exceptionally arrogant and much less responsive in dealing with the needs of the market, as they haven't had to for a quite a while. The market was expected to adapt itself to what Intel offered, especially the HEDT market. As AMD is still getting back in the game, they recognize that they have a lot of rebuilding to do in regards to reputation and market share.
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Do we forget how arrogant was AMD when had the lead in the CPU business? Precisely their past bad practices are the reason why many customers don't trust AMD anymore and wouldn't switch to AMD even if AMD was to offer them a slightly better product. AMD did burn many bridges.

lutjens said:
Am I criticizing Intel for segmenting sockets? Yes, I am and I'll explain better why. The Threadripper socket and the Epyc socket are largely identical in terms of their size and capacity. I don't know why there are two sockets, but I imagine we'll know for sure after the launch of Epyc and Threadripper.
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That is the point, Threadripper and Epyc socket are essentially the same (SP3 vs SP3r2), the segmentation is mostly arbitrary and made because AMD want to milk users. It is the same reason why AMD fuses-off capabilities on fully functional dies.
 
juanrga said:
Do we forget how arrogant was AMD when had the lead in the CPU business? Precisely their past bad practices are the reason why many customers don't trust AMD anymore and wouldn't switch to AMD even if AMD was to offer them a slightly better product. AMD did burn many bridges.
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Anything that AMD did or any arrogance they may have had pales greatly in comparison to the crap that Intel has pulled over the years.

That is the point, Threadripper and Epyc socket are essentially the same (SP3 vs SP3r2), the segmentation is mostly arbitrary and made because AMD want to milk users. It is the same reason why AMD fuses-off capabilities on fully functional dies.
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What is the point? Epyc is unlaunched. Threadripper is unlaunched. You are jumping to the conclusion that AMD wants to milk users without knowing a damn thing for sure about either socket. Wait....until...they've....both...launched. Then a better determination as to why there are two sockets may (not saying will) become apparent. Don't get me started about the fusing off of capabilities on fully functional dies...that practice has been the modus operandi for Intel for YEARS and is one of the most significant foundational philosophies upon which it's CPUs are manufactured. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a marketing guidebook at Intel titled, "How to selecively neuter and castrate perfectly good CPUs to encourage sales further up the SKU stack by denying a comprehensive feature list to all but the top SKUs.":rolleyes:
 
And as for sockets, Intel's use of the inferior Socket 2066 (as opposed to the Socket 3647 that they could've used) clearly shows a desire to deny consumers HCC chips for another product cycle and keep things as they were, again demanding top dollar from consumers while providing what very clearly is NOT their best hardware. Now this strategy has backfired badly on them.
 
juanrga said:
That is the point, Threadripper and Epyc socket are essentially the same (SP3 vs SP3r2), the segmentation is mostly arbitrary and made because AMD want to milk users. It is the same reason why AMD fuses-off capabilities on fully functional dies.
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Intel is doing the same. Not sure this works as a specific AMD or Intel thing, so much as a "everybody does it" thing.

As for the PCIe lanes, and some of the other crap... Intel continues with a modest IPC and clockspeed lead, which together give it the advantage in a "fair" fight. So AMD cannot afford to play market segmentation games like Intel can. They have to go balls-to-the-wall with everything they have in order to be competitive and gain sales. If the situation were reversed, I've no doubt AMD would be behaving rather like Intel is. This all goes back to why I want the competition, because they both push each other when there is. And we all benefit.
 
juanrga said:
Unlike AMD, whose CCX and MCM approaches and 14LPP are used because they are the best technological solutions available, not because AMD likes to save money. <--- one-line sarcasm.



No. she is trying to make the most money possible. She must have a former engineering career, but she is not acting as an engineer at her current position.
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AMD's approach seems to work better for larger core counts then Intels and it's a better process for speeds at high core counts as well. They also soldered the damn heat spreader on to the die which helps with cooling, while Intel continues to cheap out to save a buck.


Duh what CEO does not try to make the most money possible and your second part is in your opinion and we all have those.
 
juanrga said:
What is wrong with the answer to his question? Please enlighten us. Maybe it will transform into another classic.
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Wait, you took my question seriously? Then I have succeeded in my mission. I thought I wouldn't have to put a sarcasm tag in there. I took your response as dry wit but then given your history at SA, maybe I shouldn't have.

Man, a 7ghz Sky-X on an evo+. A man can dream. A man can dream.
 
Good video, Tainted. There is little interest in x299 it seems. Not surprising when people are used to $1000 8 cores from Intel. The new i9 prices are better, but everyone is excited to keep I there with a strong TR showing.

Juangra - this is a rumour thread. Why do you try and speak so matter-of fact when dealing with AMD hardware that is not released yet?
 
Ranulfo said:
Wait, you took my question seriously? Then I have succeeded in my mission. I thought I wouldn't have to put a sarcasm tag in there. I took your response as dry wit but then given your history at SA, maybe I shouldn't have.

Man, a 7ghz Sky-X on an evo+. A man can dream. A man can dream.
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I will ask you the same asked to him: What is wrong with the answer?

Minor note: the 7740k that did set the pair of overclocking world records is not Skylake-X, but a Kabylake-X model.
 
juanrga said:
I will ask you the same asked to him: What is wrong with the answer?

Minor note: the 7740k that did set the pair of overclocking world records is not Skylake-X, but a Kabylake-X model.
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Ok, now I know you're trolling me back. Come on Juan, seriously? Oh, and yes, it is Kabylake-X. I mentioned skylake-x out of habit because I view kabylake-x as a total joke chip apparently meant to get the hot rodders juiced up to break records with LN2 cooling. But hey, maybe they will be worth the extra cost over the 7700k even with mere custom water loops.
 
Ranulfo said:
Ok, now I know you're trolling me back. Come on Juan, seriously?
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Are you admitting that you were trolling?

Ranulfo said:
Oh, and yes, it is Kabylake-X. I mentioned skylake-x out of habit because I view kabylake-x as a total joke chip apparently meant to get the hot rodders juiced up to break records with LN2 cooling. But hey, maybe they will be worth the extra cost over the 7700k even with mere custom water loops.
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Have you considered the upgrade path that it provides? I don't claim that KBL-X will be preferred choice, but some people could follow that route.
 
Made a transcript of the interesting parts in case he decides to take it down before NDA is up:

Skylake-X i9 7900X OC to 5000 MHz using AIO ! (en)

der8auer said:
From my point of view Skylake-X is a pretty impressive CPU. We now have have a 10-core that's a lot cheaper than the Broadwell-E before and it clocks a lot higher. Even with the stock Intel paste I was able to reach 4.8 GHz on the CPU (i9-7900X) using Corsair 280 (mm) AIO. So there is still some headroom, I guess if you use a custom new water cooling you might be able to hit 4.9 GHz on a very very good chip without delidding. So after this test I delidded the CPU and replaced the stock TIM with liquid metal and this helped me push the CPU with an AIO to 5 GHz.

So we had Broadwell-E before who could run like 4.3-4.4 GHz, it cost 1700€. Now we have Skylake-X which is a lot cheaper and we CAN push it to 5 GHz, so what's all this negative press about? I don't really understand it. So from my point of view this is a very impressive CPU, so we have very high single-thread performance on the 10-core and also high MT performance, which we didn't have before in a Broadwell-E (probably comparing to mainstream).

...I think you can maybe hit 5.1 GHz on a custom water cooling loop if you have a very very good chip. Keep in mind that this chip was already pre-tested so it's already a really good CPU. On average CPU you might be able to get 4.7-4.8 GHz if you delidded it and on a pre tested CPU 5 GHz should be possible.
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Full video.
 
juanrga said:
That is, soldered only provided 4% more overclocking potential than TIM.
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200mhz more with 10-15c cooler core temps with even higher vcore when not using toothpaste. I just don't understand why people are defending the use of that toothpaste. Heck I would prefer no IHS at all like we had back in the old days.

Oh well, 5ghz on 10-core chip certainly looks promising.
 
They'd be better off shipping the CPUs and the IHS separately in the box and allowing you to choose your desired TIM during installation.
 
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