Microsoft Preps "Advanced" Windows 10 Pro for Workstation PCs

Megalith

Megalith

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Ready for another version of Windows 10? You’ve got it: Microsoft is supposedly working on an edition tailored to advanced users with high-performance workstations dubbed “Windows 10 Pro for Advanced PCs.” Aside from ReFS (Resilient File System) support, this version will boast support for up to 6TB of RAM and four-socket PC systems. A candidly named “Workstation” mode promises better performance in certain workloads.

...a workstation is just an x86 PC with higher-end components, possibly backed up by a better warranty, service agreement, or professional CPU and GPUs (Xeon and Quadro / FirePro as opposed to Intel Core / AMD Ryzen and a GeForce or Radeon card). Microsoft, however, may be preparing to take a step back towards specialized workstation loadouts with a new version of Windows, dubbed Windows 10 Pro for Advanced PCs. The new OS will include support for ReFS (Resilient File System, the NTFS follow-up MS introduced with Windows Server 2012). ReFS isn’t a file system we’ve covered much - it’s designed to improve data resiliency, with automatic protection against data degradation.
 
This is silly. ReFS will never replace backups. Running anywhere close to 6TB of RAM is stupid in windows 10. If you're going to have anywhere near that much, run vmware/xen or a real server version of windows.
Unless of course this is the server version of windows and they're just consolidating product lines.
 
How about supporting deduplication on Windows 10 instead of only on servers?
Also, deduplication only works on NTFS volumes, not on ReFS.
Really makes a difference in drive space needed if you have a lot of VM's on your workstation.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
This is silly. ReFS will never replace backups. Running anywhere close to 6TB of RAM is stupid in windows 10. If you're going to have anywhere near that much, run vmware/xen or a real server version of windows.
Unless of course this is the server version of windows and they're just consolidating product lines.
Click to expand...

I believe you hit the nail squarely on the head in regards to this being a version of the server OS, limited to four sockets/6tb of memory.
 
My brother will be all over this, simply for the four sockets.
 
Oh good I can replace Storage Spaces with ReFS on my dual xeon workstation. I wonder what the additiona cost is going to be.
 
So have Intel managed to convince Microsoft to limit the number of cores you can use with a standard Windows version? It’s the kind of tactics Intel would resort to to handicap AMD.

This will be interesting to see if this does happen?
 
Stimpy88 said:
So have Intel managed to convince Microsoft to limit the number of cores you can use with a standard Windows version? It’s the kind of tactics Intel would resort to to handicap AMD.

This will be interesting to see if this does happen?
Click to expand...
I hope so, in that way, we can kill two birds with one stone, by moving to linux on amd hardware.
 
Stimpy88 said:
So have Intel managed to convince Microsoft to limit the number of cores you can use with a standard Windows version? It’s the kind of tactics Intel would resort to to handicap AMD.

This will be interesting to see if this does happen?
Click to expand...


The sheer uproar in the market place of OEM customers would cause that to be a non-factor. The amount of $$$ MS would lose when you have some pigheaded CxO saying "Why the FUCK is my high end laptop only with 4 cores when my daughter's POS laptop from best Buy has 8!?!?"*


*Actual conversation I had, slightly modified.
 
Stimpy88 said:
So have Intel managed to convince Microsoft to limit the number of cores you can use with a standard Windows version? It’s the kind of tactics Intel would resort to to handicap AMD.

This will be interesting to see if this does happen?
Click to expand...

What are you rambling about?

Got a problem separating sockets and cores?

Windows 10 Pro, 2 sockets!
Windows 10 Pro Workstation, 4 sockets!

256 cores are currently supported on Windows 10 Pro. Including 512GB RAM.
 
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ReFS is nothing new. It's been around for many years and I started using it in late 2015 together with a Storage Spaces mirror. That's with the Enterprise edition of Windows 10. I don't know if it's locked out of Pro and Home editions.

Bigdady92 said:
Oh good I can replace Storage Spaces with ReFS on my dual xeon workstation. I wonder what the additiona cost is going to be.
Click to expand...

They are meant to work together. ReFS was specifically designed to use with Storage Spaces. The performance of ReFS is about 10% behind NTFS at the moment, that's not a bad price to pay for the advanced resilency features. No Filesystem or RAID setup will ever replace off-site backups though.

http://www.joshodgers.com/2016/07/10/storage-performance-refs-vs-ntfs/

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/refs/refs-overview
 
Looks like another lame attempt to squeeze a few extra license $$$ out or power users. If they do it, maybe they can include un-borking windows networking? Un-disabling VLAN and LAG/Bond?

Or - perhaps - these "advanced workstation users" should just be using Linux?
 
Shintai said:
256 cores are currently supported on Windows 10 Pro. Including 512GB RAM.
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That's not much use when Xeons top out at 24/48 cores. Currently Windows 10 Pro is limited to 48/96. Moving to quad sockets would up that to 96/192, much more reasonable. And my brother's spreadsheets will take advantage of them.
 
Quartz-1 said:
That's not much use when Xeons top out at 24/48 cores. Currently Windows 10 Pro is limited to 48/96. Moving to quad sockets would up that to 96/192, much more reasonable. And my brother's spreadsheets will take advantage of them.
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Xeons tops out at 28/56 for over half a year now ;)

Spreadsheets? I doubt. That's serial calculations for the most part.
 
PigLover said:
Looks like another lame attempt to squeeze a few extra license $$$ out or power users. If they do it, maybe they can include un-borking windows networking? Un-disabling VLAN and LAG/Bond?

Or - perhaps - these "advanced workstation users" should just be using Linux?
Click to expand...
Hey, if they'd give power users a real telemetry opt-out, control over updates, and ability to uninstall the mobile app bloat, cortana and edge without resorting to garage hacks that get reset after an update, sign me up.

I'd pay cash money $$$ for a proper workstation edition of 10 with zero emissions and bloat.
 
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DPI said:
Hey, if they'd give power users a real telemetry opt-out, control over updates, and ability to uninstall the mobile app bloat, cortana and edge without resorting to garage hacks that get reset after an update, sign me up.

I'd pay cash money $$$ for a proper workstation edition of 10 with zero emissions and bloat.
Click to expand...

LTSB 2016 is like that. I paid for a MSDN sub to get access and it's the only version of Windows 10 I'm willing to use.
 
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Shintai said:
Xeons tops out at 28/56 for over half a year now ;)
Click to expand...

I didn't spot them on ark.intel.com/

Spreadsheets? I doubt. That's serial calculations for the most part.
Click to expand...

You're partially mistaken. Excel will assign one thread to each tab on a spreadsheet. So while each tab is indeed serial, you can recalculate tabs simultaneously. My brother saw significant improvements with increased cores. And now there's the possibility of more cores. He's working with spreadsheets sized in gigabytes and data sets which can be over 100 GB.
 
Milena said:
ReFS is nothing new. It's been around for many years and I started using it in late 2015 together with a Storage Spaces mirror. That's with the Enterprise edition of Windows 10. I don't know if it's locked out of Pro and Home editions.



They are meant to work together. ReFS was specifically designed to use with Storage Spaces. The performance of ReFS is about 10% behind NTFS at the moment, that's not a bad price to pay for the advanced resilency features. No Filesystem or RAID setup will ever replace off-site backups though.

http://www.joshodgers.com/2016/07/10/storage-performance-refs-vs-ntfs/

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/refs/refs-overview
Click to expand...

I had a problem with a machine that had ReFS and NTFS storage spaces. A ReFS and NTFS storage space corrupted. Total loss of the ReFS storage space. Another NTFS one was recoverable with recovery tools. I highly question the reliability of ReFS.
 
SparkedFire said:
I had a problem with a machine that had ReFS and NTFS storage spaces. A ReFS and NTFS storage space corrupted. Total loss of the ReFS storage space. Another NTFS one was recoverable with recovery tools. I highly question the reliability of ReFS.
Click to expand...

Any chance this happened after an upgrade to a new Windows 10 build? I've read about compatibility problems and possible curruption when trying to access a storage space volume with a different build. Mine contains 8 6TB HDD's and 2 1.2TB SSD's for the SSD tier. They are set up as 2 way mirror with a single ReFS volume. And while this configuration has been working great so far I would probably go back to something simpler for a future build. It's a home PC after all.
 
Quartz-1 said:
I didn't spot them on ark.intel.com/



You're partially mistaken. Excel will assign one thread to each tab on a spreadsheet. So while each tab is indeed serial, you can recalculate tabs simultaneously. My brother saw significant improvements with increased cores. And now there's the possibility of more cores. He's working with spreadsheets sized in gigabytes and data sets which can be over 100 GB.
Click to expand...

He should use SQL then. Using Excel for that is anything but optimal.
 
Milena said:
LTSB 2016 is like that. I paid for a MSDN sub to get access and it's the only version of Windows 10 I'm willing to use.
Click to expand...
Yeah I gave LTSB a shot, but in the end it had too many limitations and didn't add any value, or even a single notable feature over Windows 8.1 with Startisback + WSUS offline to block the trojan telemetry updates.
 
ReFS is in Windows 10 already, it's just not the default file system. I think this version just uses it by default - as others pointed out, likely a version of the server OS.
 
Shintai said:
What are you rambling about?

Got a problem separating sockets and cores?

Windows 10 Pro, 2 sockets!
Windows 10 Pro Workstation, 4 sockets!

256 cores are currently supported on Windows 10 Pro. Including 512GB RAM.
Click to expand...

Nope, but we are fast moving in to the time of CPUs with 32 cores and 64 threads, CPU specs that I bet that Microsoft licensing never thought would emerge for another 10 years.

16 core 32 thread CPUs are things that Microsoft has not had to tackle in the enthusiast PC market before. And If it was up to Intel we would be getting 6 core parts in 2020, and 8 core in 2024. AMD have caught them with their pants down, and so far we have seen the hysterical “launch” of Intels x299 platform, and after this so called “high end” sku of windows leaking, maybe we could well be seeing Intel talking Microsoft in to changing the license agreements for Windows, just to make sure that not so many enthusiasts can afford building an AMD based HEDT for less than half the price of Intels offering.

I’m not saying that this IS happening, but you have to admit that times have changed thanks to AMD. And nothing Intel or Microsoft does these days would surprise me.
 
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Stimpy88 said:
Nope, but we are moving in to the time of CPUs with 32 cores and 64 threads. These are things that Microsoft has not had to tackle in the enthusiast PC market. If it was up to Intel we would be getting 6 core parts in 2020, and 8 core in 2024. AMD have caught them with their pants down, and so far we have seen the hysterical “launch” of Intels x299 platform, and after this so called “high end” sku of windows leaking, maybe we could well see Intel talk Microsoft in to changing the license agreement for Windows, just to make sure that not so many enthusiasts can afford building an AMD based HEDT for less than half the price of Intels offering.

Nothing Intel or Microsoft does these days would surprise me.
Click to expand...

So you admit your post was nothing but FUD.
 
Shintai said:
He should use SQL then. Using Excel for that is anything but optimal.
Click to expand...

Actually, I've been told he should probably use Mathcad, but Excel is what he knows and what works. It also has the bonus of being easily comprehensible to clients.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
This is silly. ReFS will never replace backups. Running anywhere close to 6TB of RAM is stupid in windows 10. If you're going to have anywhere near that much, run vmware/xen or a real server version of windows.
Unless of course this is the server version of windows and they're just consolidating product lines.
Click to expand...

I am having a very difficult time getting that much memory into a server for an even somewhat reasonable price. It's pretty crazy.
 
Stimpy88 said:
Nope, but we are fast moving in to the time of CPUs with 32 cores and 64 threads, CPU specs that I bet that Microsoft licensing never thought would emerge for another 10 years.

16 core 32 thread CPUs are things that Microsoft has not had to tackle in the enthusiast PC market before. And If it was up to Intel we would be getting 6 core parts in 2020, and 8 core in 2024. AMD have caught them with their pants down, and so far we have seen the hysterical “launch” of Intels x299 platform, and after this so called “high end” sku of windows leaking, maybe we could well be seeing Intel talking Microsoft in to changing the license agreements for Windows, just to make sure that not so many enthusiasts can afford building an AMD based HEDT for less than half the price of Intels offering.

I’m not saying that this IS happening, but you have to admit that times have changed thanks to AMD. And nothing Intel or Microsoft does these days would surprise me.
Click to expand...
Uhh let's slow down and wait for benches of non-vapor hardware before we foam at the mouth for AMD so violently.

I'm not convinced that greater numbers of weaker cores will amount to a pinch of shit when the software isn't there and may not really ever get there. It's still a 4 core world as far as software development target.
 
ReFS is still crap from the research I have done on it lately.

Drive gets filled up? ReFS loses ALL your data.

And no Dedup support, which kills it for any and all large data storage usage.
 
Milena said:
Any chance this happened after an upgrade to a new Windows 10 build? I've read about compatibility problems and possible curruption when trying to access a storage space volume with a different build. Mine contains 8 6TB HDD's and 2 1.2TB SSD's for the SSD tier. They are set up as 2 way mirror with a single ReFS volume. And while this configuration has been working great so far I would probably go back to something simpler for a future build. It's a home PC after all.
Click to expand...

I don't believe this was the cause. I honestly don't remember exactly what happened, but I think it revolved around a failure of primary and backup power to the machine. I think it was in the middle of writing some big files during a power failure.
 
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