Tesla Should Unveil Electric Pickup Right Away for Sake of US Auto Industry

Megalith

Megalith

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Some believe that Tesla should show off their electric pickup ASAP and open preorders for it in order to accelerate the advent of electric transport in the trucking arena, whose major players still have their “heads buried in the sand” regarding all-electric pickups. A large number of reservations, which would be pretty certain, would presumably compel automakers to shift their plans and priorities. The Model 3 has already convinced many companies to view it as the new benchmark in their all-electric vehicle programs.

The US auto industry is highly dependent on trucks. It’s where not only most but almost all of their profit is coming from and Ford’s F-series trucks are consistently the best-selling vehicles in the country. The fact that they don’t seem to have any serious effort to transition this segment to all-electric propulsion is worrisome for the US auto industry. Ford announced earlier this year that they plan to introduce a hybrid powertrain in the F-150 in 2020. We are not even talking about a plug-in powertrain here, it would still be completely reliant on gas and that is still 3 years down the road. It’s a segment that badly needs to be electrified and someone will do it even if it’s not Ford, GM, or Chrysler.
 
As much as I would love to enjoy cleaner air in the city, somehow I doubt the manual labor force is going to hop onboard. These trucks need to be cheap. Where is the new battery technology? Too busy boring tunnels and firing off rockets I suppose.
 
Eh fashion item like a dodge ram, it's not cheap and easy to replace and beat up as a true fleet truck. Range or no range.
 
A pickup definitely needs to be able to do work. If it's unable to haul large loads as it's targetted audience, then it won't really sell that well.

The problem with electric cars are those that live in apartments. Apartments and like-complexes don't have the infrastructure to charge an All-Electric car. Managers don't want to install the outlets needed for them. If there's an appropriate solution to this problem it'll be able much easier to sell these cars.

Such as a special "Card" that gets charged the cost of the electricity used (With a maintenance fee). We've already got wifi redboxes and other kiosks, and card reading vending machines - adding a kiosk at apartments would be really nice.
 
Why not just get the plasterboard and lumber delivered instead?
 
The electric truck with have unrivaled torque, so it'll be able to do work. The real question for the initial models will be the cosmetic durability issues.
 
EODetroit said:
The electric truck with have unrivaled torque, so it'll be able to do work. The real question for the initial models will be the cosmetic durability issues.
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That is definitely an advantage, but a lot of businesses put some serious miles on their company/work trucks on any given day. There is no way this will for for those sorts.
 
agree with what everyone has said. i think the battery technology needs to improve a lot more from where it currently is to make electric trucks viable. but work trucks tend to be beaters so it's easier replacing a 3-4k dollar beater truck every year or two then it is to spend 80k+ dollars on an electric vehicle. there's a reason why a lot of construction workers still use the early 90's F150's, they're a dime a dozen and are easy to maintain.
 
Trucks seem like the the market for a hybrid engine, IMO. Perhaps its the cost/weight/power ratio that doesn't fuzz out.
 
The vast majority of trucks in the USA are for soccer moms and compensators pretending they do any kind of construction or even personal renovation. They don't, they never have, and they never will what with the diabetes eating all those holes in their feet. They make mini-vans for your double-wide scooter, trucks actually suck for that job.

Anything Tesla makes is going to be the same thing, for that over-compensating market. The puny percentage that actually need a truck will get something cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and cheap to watch your employees annihilate.
 
RogueTadhg said:
A pickup definitely needs to be able to do work. If it's unable to haul large loads as it's targetted audience, then it won't really sell that well.

The problem with electric cars are those that live in apartments. Apartments and like-complexes don't have the infrastructure to charge an All-Electric car. Managers don't want to install the outlets needed for them. If there's an appropriate solution to this problem it'll be able much easier to sell these cars.

Such as a special "Card" that gets charged the cost of the electricity used (With a maintenance fee). We've already got wifi redboxes and other kiosks, and card reading vending machines - adding a kiosk at apartments would be really nice.
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Could just be a credit card. Swipe, charge. Once it's disconnected, it completes the transaction. Like a gas pump.
 
The problems is the price, anyone that wants one can easily afford a big expensive truck, without the range issues. One of these would be perfect for me, it'd do my commute, and occasional load of mulch and topsoil or other home depot runs. But the price will make it a no go, will need to be about a 1/3 of the price it will likely sell at to make any financial sense.
 
Tessa is going to need a history or reliability and repairability before anyone other than rich folks take them seriously in the truck market.
 
What I want is a crew cab truck with a small (4 or 6cyl depending on the size of the truck) diesel that isnt retarded expensive. (And doesn't have some stupid quirk like a timing belt, sry, I like metal!)

Like the new Colorado's. A 4cyl Duramax CCSB is over 40k. I can order a fullsize F150 CCSB with the N/A v6 for bout 35k-ish. I get more truck for less money! Even though it's not a diesel.
 
I would love a Small or Midsize truck with electric hub motors in each wheel. Needs to have gas or diesel engine to power the generator for extended range but not be connected at all to the drive train. Also needs to be able to be plugged in for short trips without having to use fuel.

Would be amazing for offroading, you could easily get an independent suspension with 24"+ of travel without needing to worry about a driveline.
 
I could see a total electric PU working well for a lawn care crew if the range was decent. They spend a fair amount of the time parked while the crew does the lawn. Don't know if the price point is going to be low enough to beat out the normal used PU a lot of the crews use.
 
A pickup would be challenging for them to make. The precise/expected weight of a sedan/SUV/compact is a significantly more manageable than the highly variable weight that a pickup affords.

As an A to B vehicle it's doable but as an actual utility vehicle they've got a challenge ahead of them. It would be next to impossible for them to advertise any sort of performance specs that would matter to a traditional truck owner. What is a worker to do? Make sure their load is below what they need to make it back to their work site? Yeah...I just don't see it happening.

That said, however, their next model will be named the Model Y. Thus completing the Model S, 3, X, and Y "sexy" acronym. I can see a pickup being the Model Y, as in, why do we need an electric pickup...
 
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RogueTadhg said:
A pickup definitely needs to be able to do work. If it's unable to haul large loads as it's targetted audience, then it won't really sell that well.

The problem with electric cars are those that live in apartments. Apartments and like-complexes don't have the infrastructure to charge an All-Electric car. Managers don't want to install the outlets needed for them. If there's an appropriate solution to this problem it'll be able much easier to sell these cars.

Such as a special "Card" that gets charged the cost of the electricity used (With a maintenance fee). We've already got wifi redboxes and other kiosks, and card reading vending machines - adding a kiosk at apartments would be really nice.
Click to expand...

The problem isn't just charging infrastructure, it's the batteries too, we are able to get 240 Miles in a passenger car because it is aerodynamic and light. Trucks are the antithesis of this. While torque is not going to be an issue, running that battery out cause you have a ton of bricks in your truck bed is. Sure they can put 30,000$ worth of batteries in them but now cost and charging infrastructure are big issues. How long does it take to charge 200kw of batteries? Heh.
 
I can see it now...
Range 300 miles(empty)
Range 200 miles(bed loaded)
Range 100 miles(bed loaded+trailer)
 
Chaos Machine said:
The problem isn't just charging infrastructure, it's the batteries too, we are able to get 240 Miles in a passenger car because it is aerodynamic and light. Trucks are the antithesis of this. While torque is not going to be an issue, running that battery out cause you have a ton of bricks in your truck bed is. Sure they can put 30,000$ worth of batteries in them but now cost and charging infrastructure are big issues. How long does it take to charge 200kw of batteries? Heh.
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To add, once you pack in that 200kw worth of batteries, what payload capacity are you left with?
 
Twisted Kidney said:
The vast majority of trucks in the USA are for soccer moms and compensators pretending they do any kind of construction or even personal renovation. They don't, they never have, and they never will what with the diabetes eating all those holes in their feet. They make mini-vans for your double-wide scooter, trucks actually suck for that job.

Anything Tesla makes is going to be the same thing, for that over-compensating market. The puny percentage that actually need a truck will get something cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and cheap to watch your employees annihilate.
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What? Soccer moms? Sure, they drive SUVs, but not trucks. And I like in the redneck south and not many people buy a truck to compensate for something (and it is such idiocy to accuse people of that based on their vehicle purchases). Most people who buy a truck have a legitimate need for it. Maybe not all the time, but on occasion. Enough to justify the purchase.
 
Doc Doc said:
Range, range, range and range. Next question?
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Range and hauling ability. A little pickup that can only hold ~2000lbs in the bed is as useless to me as the one that can only go 100 miles...

daglesj said:
Why not just get the plasterboard and lumber delivered instead?
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Because delivery is not cheap. Near me it starts at $70 to have a load delivered and the last time I checked that was PER item. So if I wanted plasterboard AND lumber I would pay $140. Its far cheaper to pick it up in my truck.

Plus that is not all I do with the truck. I couldn't safely pull anything significant with a car (electric or otherwise). Think boat, plane stuck in mud, other cars etc.

Also not everyone delivers. I got a load of firewood super cheap near a friends house last year and there was no way they would have delivered it to my location (too far away). I saved a significant amount of money by just driving up (when I was already there to visit a friend) and having them dump a cord in the back of my truck.

Trucks also have a lot more durability than cars. My last truck was 25 years old before I bought this new one. It was still running strong when I took ownership of the new one. It still does run but I use it a lot less now. I upgraded to a bigger truck since my needs changed and the extra power was required.

Twisted Kidney said:
The vast majority of trucks in the USA are for soccer moms and compensators pretending they do any kind of construction or even personal renovation. They don't, they never have, and they never will what with the diabetes eating all those holes in their feet. They make mini-vans for your double-wide scooter, trucks actually suck for that job.
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Got some stats to back that claim up? I know of only a few people like this and usually its a dual purpose vehicle...
 
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I can see it now. Someone gets it for some credit or diamond lane access or some company requirement and builds in a Generator and gas tank into the Bed.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
The vast majority of trucks in the USA are for soccer moms and compensators pretending they do any kind of construction or even personal renovation. They don't, they never have, and they never will what with the diabetes eating all those holes in their feet. They make mini-vans for your double-wide scooter, trucks actually suck for that job.

Anything Tesla makes is going to be the same thing, for that over-compensating market. The puny percentage that actually need a truck will get something cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and cheap to watch your employees annihilate.
Click to expand...
I'm 6'3" and I up-paid $4000 for a car with 4" more legroom because my leg would be literally bound against a dash which causes a some problems for me as well be friggin' uncomfortable.
What is comfortable to you and what you need is not what someone else needs. Being right some of the time doesn't make your statement right all the time.
 
rgMekanic said:
To add, once you pack in that 200kw worth of batteries, what payload capacity are you left with?
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This. Payload is everything and batteries are too bulky and weigh too much. The Chevy Tahoe hybrids give up 2000lbs of their rated towing capacity and have to replace a number of panels with thin aluminum to make up for the weight of the electrics. There's no such thing as a free lunch!
 
It'll be a niche market. I could the use for companies that use them on a construction site or on a large factory plot, or rail yards, things like that where the hauling might be heavy but the mileage isn't. But the primary reason people buy a truck that I personally know of is hauling a boat/camper/car trailer, and frequently 200+ miles in the case of the camper/car trailer. You simply can't replace that with any battery tech on the immediate horizon, and unless they get charging times down to a matter of minutes, most people aren't going to want to cram into some random parking lot every few hours to waste another few hours to charge.

So while I appreciate the tech, I don't see much application of a pure electric truck in a broad market. Hybrid? Sure, maybe....but diesel has it's niche, too, and this is kind of it.
 
Sorry but I am definitely not a progressive so I am not automatically an electric car advocate. As such I see low adoption rates outside of urban mega-cities for electric cars and trucks. It appears the short to medium term pricing of oil and gasoline will remain low which will make ICE vehicles attractive to a majority of Americans. Misguided progressives will continue to cling to the electric-autonomous fantasy despite evidence to the contrary...
 
thejokker said:
Sorry but I am definitely not a progressive so I am not automatically an electric car advocate. As such I see low adoption rates outside of urban mega-cities for electric cars and trucks. It appears the short to medium term pricing of oil and gasoline will remain low which will make ICE vehicles attractive to a majority of Americans. Misguided progressives will continue to cling to the electric-autonomous fantasy despite evidence to the contrary...
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There's nothing inherently wrong with EV. They just fit a niche roll. And don't forget, there are markets that aren't America. Japan and Europe for example have expensive gas and comparatively little rural area. But the also don't drive pickup trucks...hence why the pickup is a silly idea, even if EV makes a lot of sense in those areas.
 
thejokker said:
Sorry but I am definitely not a progressive so I am not automatically an electric car advocate. As such I see low adoption rates outside of urban mega-cities for electric cars and trucks. It appears the short to medium term pricing of oil and gasoline will remain low which will make ICE vehicles attractive to a majority of Americans. Misguided progressives will continue to cling to the electric-autonomous fantasy despite evidence to the contrary...
Click to expand...

You don't need to be a progressive to be an EV advocate. All you need to realize is that fossil fuels are bad for us, the environment, and that they are limited. If you want a future you want to transition to something cleaner and more efficient. Right now that looks like EV - though I have my doubts on the long term sustainability of the battery production. So I will support the research and tax credits as an investment for my future. Until such time as EV or its alternative becomes cheaper than ICE it wont become mainstream. Though I may own a model s if i end up with spare cash to burn...pretty darn fun to drive and this coming form soneone who hates cars.

Pusher of Buttons said:
There's nothing inherently wrong with EV. They just fit a niche roll. And don't forget, there are markets that aren't America. Japan and Europe for example have expensive gas and comparatively little rural area. But the also don't drive pickup trucks...hence why the pickup is a silly idea, even if EV makes a lot of sense in those areas.
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Wait what? Rural people dont drive pickups? I realize you said out of America but I just dont believe that. Everyone I have ever talked to that has been in really rural areas in other countries has said it tends towards trunks and/or jeeps as the roads are shite. This included someone from Japan. Now granted I dont know about Europe but I would imagine its similar to rural areas elsewhere... Do you have any studies to back up that they dont use pickups?
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
Japan and Europe for example have expensive gas and comparatively little rural area. But the also don't drive pickup trucks...hence why the pickup is a silly idea, even if EV makes a lot of sense in those areas.
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Been to Japan, and yes they drive trucks, When you work on a farm, or do anyone of a 100 other country things you need a truck of some sort.

Look up the Toyota Hilux.

I'm waiting on Hydrogen powered cars, Electric vehicles are somewhat useless down here in New Orleans.
 
kju1 said:
Wait what? Rural people dont drive pickups? I realize you said out of America but I just dont believe that. Everyone I have ever talked to that has been in really rural areas in other countries has said it tends towards trunks and/or jeeps as the roads are shite. This included someone from Japan. Now granted I dont know about Europe but I would imagine its similar to rural areas elsewhere... Do you have any studies to back up that they dont use pickups?
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Rural people DO drive pickups. Japan and Europe are FAR less rural than the USA.

For example, in a little blurb in quick research...in 2015 the best selling truck in the USA was the F150, of which 780,000 sold. The best selling truck in Europe was the Ford Ranger with 27,300 sold, and accounting for 23.5% of the entire pickup truck market. Thus, Europe with over twice the population of the United States, bought about 1/8 as many trucks as just the F150 line sold in the United States.

So yes, I would say the European market for pickup trucks is QUITE small comparatively.
 
Spidey329 said:
Could just be a credit card. Swipe, charge. Once it's disconnected, it completes the transaction. Like a gas pump.
Click to expand...
So you don't mind having that card account tied up for hours while your EV is charging?
 
EODetroit said:
The electric truck with have unrivaled torque, so it'll be able to do work. The real question for the initial models will be the cosmetic durability issues.
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Being able to do some work in pulling based on power is only a fraction of it. Range is a huge factor for a truck that does real work. You have poor aero, more weight etc so range is already lower than cars, then add in a load and/or trailer and range plummets. You will also need to beef everything up in the drive train, Tesla already has a problem when pushing the car for more than a few minutes at a time before the drive train goes into limp mode because of over heating, now think about that with a truck trying to pull a load.

Trucks that do work also travel long distances, or if local, lots of driving/pulling all day long, while most cars go to work and then shopping and back home. Trucks also tend to work and drive in far more remote locations than cars do. Trucks that do work are also an investment, so ROI is a big factor to consider, so getting a higher priced truck, that can do less work and on long hauls would add days to travel because of charging time, not many people are going to go for that.

So no, cosmetic durability will not be the "real question".
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
Rural people DO drive pickups. Japan and Europe are FAR less rural than the USA.

For example, in a little blurb in quick research...in 2015 the best selling truck in the USA was the F150, of which 780,000 sold. The best selling truck in Europe was the Ford Ranger with 27,300 sold, and accounting for 23.5% of the entire pickup truck market. Thus, Europe with over twice the population of the United States, bought about 1/8 as many trucks as just the F150 line sold in the United States.

So yes, I would say the European market for pickup trucks is QUITE small comparatively.
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You didnt account for the percentage of population that doesnt own any vehicle. How large is the car market overall in Europa vs America? I would agree they use them less overall seeing as there is less of a demand since Europe has more population and less rural area. https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-...the-vehicle-fleet/size-of-the-vehicle-fleet-2 But I dont think its fair to make a statement that they:

Pusher of Buttons said:
But the also don't drive pickup trucks...
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I also wouldnt call it quite small without knowing all the facts like I said about vehicle ownership rates etc. Worth noting...Thailand has a larger market for trucks than the US does...http://wardsauto.com/industry/pickup-trucks-reign-thailand
 
SvenBent said:
Sorry i don't follow but how would the account be tied up while charging?
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Normally a gas pump makes a temporary charge on your card, and doesn't release the charge till the transaction is done.

thus locking your card the entire time your pumping gas.
 
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