Windows Users Should Want Windows 10 S to Succeed

GoldenTiger said:
I see the Linux brigade is out in force today. They hate Windows blindly like people hate Trump blindly. Ignore the Linux folk here and it is a higher quality forum.
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Not really, two Windows 10 machines here.
 
I don't get why Windows S is not just a User Type. Security, Normal, Administrator
 
trick_m0nkey said:
Microsoft needs to stop trying to be like Apple. It's not going to happen.
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Nor do I want it to happen. If I want a closed garden proprietary small ecosystem, I'll buy an Apple product.

PCs running windows right now is like a box of legos, and that's what's so great about it. Its not that an app store is a problem, but I don't like monopolies and I don't want Microsoft controlling my app store or the hardware I'm running the OS on, they already control too much including a browser and antivirus and so forth.

What I want from microsoft is the lego base, and then I can get all shapes and colors and sizes of legos from my huge box, including competing non-Microsoft app stores.

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who cares, iv been saying for a long time that M$ should make another version of windows 10 and make whatever they want with it, this ended happening, that's terrific.
so now if thats what ppl want they will get windows S, if not they will get the regular version, assuming M$ doesn't keep creeping changes into the classic version and maybe roll back some of the crap it already have.
and call me paranoid, but i think the author didn't write that for free.
 
ChadD said:
This is exactly what Gabe warned about and everyone called him crazy. The masses drive software development (including Game development). If the masses are all running -s cause it does what they need. Then developers have to target it... they have to play by MS rules to gain access, they have to pay MS their cut to get a place at the table... they will be forced to pay MS advertising $ to get a good spot in the store. Yes Steam does charge a cut and for premium placement... however they are not the only option for an entire mass market OS. Windows -S is pure evil for what it represents and I will never ever ever suggest anyone I know or any client I ever deal with even consider it. -s needs to die and MS needs a good nut shot for even trying.
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To me Windows 10 S is just another option that makes sense in some situations. It personally would make some sense for me on certain devices I might use, like my old Bay Trail Asus VivoTab Note 8. I have Chrome installed on it but that's the only desktop app and Edge works better on a tablet of that size and power. But it would be pointless on any other device I use. And sure I get Gabe's issue with it, the Windows Store is a direct competitor to his business and Windows users constitution 96% of his clients. But I guess is developers were going to go out and spend a lot of time writing software for Linux and getting a cut taken from Steam anyway, why not the Windows Store with a lot more potential customers?

I think a good Windows 10 Store is a good thing for Windows users. You're not going to get things like banking apps, social media apps, etc. distributed much by Steam and not much stuff for tablets or 2 in 1s. So from my perspective, more software is more software even if it's in the Windows Store. Again, it's just another option and I know there'll be a zillion nightmare scenarios where Microsoft only ships Windows S versions, at least to consumers and shuts down Win32, which I just don't see how that benefits Microsoft.
 
jnemesh said:
Nope. A closed ecosystem and restricted app store is everything Windows users should be fighting against! In the end, though, Microsoft's own incompetence and inability to deliver REMOTELY close to what their customers want will doom the effort. Just watch. It will be just like their Windows Phone, Kin, Zune, and Xbox efforts.
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You forgot Windows ME, Vista and 8/Metro! And before any naysayers pipe in about loving Vista- Vista, followed very closely by the Metro interface in Windows 8, was the reason Windows XP maintained its entrenched position and even grew in popularity during a period when the majority of users and businesses alike should have been wholesale dumping XP in favor of the latest offering.

I can appreciate your experience with Vista. I, however, did not and cannot share in it.

Megalith said:
Do you think the writer is clinically insane, or could we really see a future where all programs are build using UWP and served through the Windows Store?
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Votes: Clinically insane:wacky:

At this point, NadellaSoft is pretty much no different than a blind dog only hitting its mark after repeated corrective beatings. Until they drive true innovation to the top instead of simply buying IP and ruining everyone's overall experience by spindling, mutilating and reincorporating, it into something that was previously useful or that people know they don't want but are forced to take with their OS anyway, the company is simply going to have to take the lumps from its previous failures all over again.

One prays for a swift end to Nadella's tenure and hopes for the Board to find a tag team of creative frenzy meets business acumen to actually guide the company into future past where the company created "amazing" and promoted "ideas" based on a consumer (home and corporate) centric focus on use.

Wonder Twin powers ACTIVATE!
 
BulletDust said:
And as stated, the cheap hardware is going to provide a mildly usable, but somewhat frustrating Windows desktop experience - Resulting in even more frustrated Windows users that believe they were duped from the onset. May as well buy a slightly higher specification low end Windows 10 Home laptop for not much more outlay that's capable of providing a far better experience.
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Just not sure where you're getting this. I know very well how low end Windows 10 devices perform and it's all about the applications you try to use on them. Web browsing in Edge, light desktop Office 2016, light games, even desktop games, will all run fine on these things. Don't use them to play Doom or run Photoshop of even Windows Store games like Forza Horizon 3. Really the step from these kinds of devices is something with a real SSD. that'll make a lot more difference that top end CPU performance for the basic tasks.
 
At this rate, windows operating system will become history. Keep feeding users things they don't want and remove features they users need is just not going to work Microsoft.
 
heatlesssun said:
Just not sure where you're getting this. I know very well how low end Windows 10 devices perform and it's all about the applications you try to use on them. Web browsing in Edge, light desktop Office 2016, light games, even desktop games, will all run fine on these things. Don't use them to play Doom or run Photoshop of even Windows Store games like Forza Horizon 3. Really the step from these kinds of devices is something with a real SSD. that'll make a lot more difference that top end CPU performance for the basic tasks.
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Masses of experience with the masses. Windows 10 desktop variants are better on under powered hardware than Microsoft's offerings of the past, but the experience is still a frustrating disk thrashing one that's far from ideal and this frustrates the masses to the point of dumping the device in the bottom drawer for something more capable.
 
heatlesssun said:
And sure I get Gabe's issue with it, the Windows Store is a direct competitor to his business and Windows users constitution 96% of his clients.
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No you really don't get his issue then at all.

As competition he could care less ... they are not worthy and as such no one buys games from the MS store, accept perhaps you. Valve has DESTROYED MS in terms of game store sales. Everyone on windows 10 has the option to purchase games form MS instead... they choose not to because Valves product is better.

The issue here is not competition but the lack of it. Windows -S Blocks all competition completely >.<

I also have zero issue with Microsoft running a store... all the power to them, and sure a well curated quality software store that normal folks should be able to trust and use is good. The issues arise when MS uses their monopoly position to lock out all competition completely. Which is exactly what -s is. If you don't see that there is no help for you... your worse then the idiots that used to hang on jobs words.
 
BulletDust said:
Masses of experience with the masses. Windows 10 desktop variants are better on under powered hardware than Microsoft's offerings of the past, but the experience is still a frustrating disk thrashing one that's far from ideal and this frustrates the masses to the point of dumping the device in the bottom drawer for something more capable.
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And I have used this class of device for nearly two years under Windows 10 like many others who have found them to work well for light to mid- range duties which is exactly the audience for this type of hardware.
 
ChadD said:
Everyone on windows 10 has the option to purchase games form MS instead... they choose not to because Valves product is better.
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Everyone on Windows 10 DOESN'T have the option to purchase every game on Steam in the Windows Store and vice versa. Sure where the titles overlap I'm sure Steam does much better, it's been around a lot longer, online multiplayer across systems has been an issue, mods, etc. There's certainly been no VR titles to buy in the Windows Store. Today I bought the Hot Wheels pack for Forza Horizon 3. I get the super hate by some over the Windows Store, but FH3 is an awesome arcade racer I didn't care what store it was in. I use six different stores for games so it's not like I ever cared about that sort of thing. But six is on the crazy side. One store to rule them all, not so much as just one instead of a half-dozen would suffice for a lot of people.
 
jnemesh said:
Nope. A closed ecosystem and restricted app store is everything Windows users should be fighting against! In the end, though, Microsoft's own incompetence and inability to deliver REMOTELY close to what their customers want will doom the effort. Just watch. It will be just like their Windows Phone, Kin, Zune, and Xbox efforts.
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Add Windows RT to that list (which is basically what Windows 10 S is).
 
heatlesssun said:
Everyone on Windows 10 DOESN'T have the option to purchase every game on Steam in the Windows Store and vice versa. Sure where the titles overlap I'm sure Steam does much better, it's been around a lot longer, online multiplayer across systems has been an issue, mods, etc. There's certainly been no VR titles to buy in the Windows Store. Today I bought the Hot Wheels pack for Forza Horizon 3. I get the super hate by some over the Windows Store, but FH3 is an awesome arcade racer I didn't care what store it was in. I use six different stores for games so it's not like I ever cared about that sort of thing. But six is on the crazy side. One store to rule them all, not so much as just one instead of a half-dozen would suffice for a lot of people.
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Forget about what the fuck is in the stupid store for 2 seconds and think. lol

MS is pushing a version of windows, that you are advocating is perfect for the average computer user. A version of windows that will not allow competition by design.

That is all that really needs to be said.
 
BulletDust said:
Google bites back?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/09/v...partnership-to-include-chromebook-management/

https://9to5google.com/2017/05/09/google-vmware-partnership-chrome-os/
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Yep let MS play their little RT rebrand game... with a big show about it being for Education. Never mind that the RT rebrand isn't likely to gain any traction at all in the education market. Clearly MS doesn't even clearly understand why they have been having their school lunch handed to them.

Google is about to start pushing into the much more lucrative corporate dumb terminal business... and in a year or two when numbers start showing ChromeOS gaining serious ground in that market what is MS going to do ? Likely rebrand -s. lol
 
ChadD said:
MS is pushing a version of windows, that you are advocating is perfect for the average computer user. A version of windows that will not allow competition by design.
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Never said that it is perfect for the average user, I said that it makes sense in certain scenarios.

ChadD said:
That is all that really needs to be said.
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It doesn't prevent competition from a software application level but a distribution level. So I'm not saying that's a great thing but single source curated distribution systems obviously work. As long as it's not the only option I think it makes sense that it is an option.
 
ChadD said:
Yep let MS play their little RT rebrand game... with a big show about it being for Education. Never mind that the RT rebrand isn't likely to gain any traction at all in the education market. Clearly MS doesn't even clearly understand why they have been having their school lunch handed to them.

Google is about to start pushing into the much more lucrative corporate dumb terminal business... and in a year or two when numbers start showing ChromeOS gaining serious ground in that market what is MS going to do ? Likely rebrand -s. lol
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From an education perspective particularly since Windows 10 S and Pro are the same cost as in free 10 S is nothing like Windows RT. Education is the scenario where what Microsoft is doing makes a LOT of sense. Locked devices where needed, not locked down where not needed, no difference in cost. If that's the way Windows 10 S worked in the consumer space then there'd really be nothing to say about it locking anyone in. And I get that better than most considering the large Win32 library of software I have. But even in my case, Windows 10 S on a cheap Windows tablet, that's not really locking me into anything on that kind of device, nothing it could handle well.
 
I just want MS to stop telling me whats best for me. I'll decide that thank you very much.
 
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heatlesssun said:
It doesn't prevent competition from a software application level but a distribution level. So I'm not saying that's a great thing but single source curated distribution systems obviously work. As long as it's not the only option I think it makes sense that it is an option.
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Single sourced curated distribution systems on a PC operating system have NEVER existed before ever. So exactly how to you come to the conclusion that they work.
 
heatlesssun said:
From an education perspective particularly since Windows 10 S and Pro are the same cost as in free 10 S is nothing like Windows RT. Education is the scenario where what Microsoft is doing makes a LOT of sense. Locked devices where needed, not locked down where not needed, no difference in cost. If that's the way Windows 10 S worked in the consumer space then there'd really be nothing to say about it locking anyone in. And I get that better than most considering the large Win32 library of software I have. But even in my case, Windows 10 S on a cheap Windows tablet, that's not really locking me into anything on that kind of device, nothing it could handle well.
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Like MS you have no idea why ChromeOS is destroying in education. It has nothing to do with hardware. Windows -S is going to fail hard in education, and every other market really. It will be fun looking back in a year or so when they announce the end of -s. lol
 
ChadD said:
Single sourced curated distribution systems on a PC operating system have NEVER existed before ever. So exactly how to you come to the conclusion that they work.
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They work well on devices that are prevalent that PCs that do many of the same things.
 
ChadD said:
Like MS you have no idea why ChromeOS is destroying in education. It has nothing to do with hardware. Windows -S is going to fail hard in education, and every other market really. It will be fun looking back in a year or so when they announce the end of -s. lol
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The primary reason is cost in that market. And yeah, locked down easy to manage.
 
heatlesssun said:
The primary reason is cost in that market. And yeah, locked down easy to manage.
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Cost in that market.... really ? MS for years has gouged the education market. Sure they have offered what look like attractive education pricing to end users while charging institutions PITA site licences. That seeing as you still don't understand is how Google has chased MS out of 50% of the education market... and despite this -s ploy will likely remove MS from the other 50% over the next few years. Google charges for hardware.... a one time setup fee. Then that's it. No yearly renewal of your freaking site licence(s)... no on site tech support needed to make everything work. No random MS rep drop ins to ensure all your copies have proper documentation. Papers please.

If this was MS best shot at regaining what they have lost in the education market... its not even laughable its just sad.

MS Fd up royally when they started pushing cloud services... while still trying to sell site licences. The education market was the first to fall... because Google came along and said sure here is your exact cost up front... done, no site licence no renewal junk, no software company doing student head counts.

The corporate market is going to go the exact same way over the next few years. No one wants to deal with local software licencing fees... and that includes operating systems. MS has tried to have their cake and eat it too... use our cloud services, but buy that big site licence for your local systems. It doesn't track for an awful lot of their clients. They are begging Google to step in and decimate them in the corp market next.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think a good Windows 10 Store is a good thing for Windows users. You're not going to get things like banking apps, social media apps, etc. distributed much by Steam and not much stuff for tablets or 2 in 1s. So from my perspective, more software is more software even if it's in the Windows Store. Again, it's just another option and I know there'll be a zillion nightmare scenarios where Microsoft only ships Windows S versions, at least to consumers and shuts down Win32, which I just don't see how that benefits Microsoft.
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Except PC users don't need "banking apps" and "social media apps" because the PC is not a phone. It's called a web browser. And maybe MS should have focused more resources on making the best browser on the market, instead of the half baked mobile app Edge that *still* freezes and crashes every other time opening a new tab. And FFS, not limited it to one version of Windows.

There is nothing good about the "Windows store" for anyone but MS and its paid per post shills. Even perfectly good Win32 based freeware if UWP-wrappered with centennial would mean its files would be needlessly obfuscated, locked away from the user and DRM'd.

You guys will never get it. Developers aren't interested in the store not only because of lack of market. Many are opposed for philosophical reasons. They're KEENLY aware that feeding the windows store would mean feeding a cancer that would begin to eat away at everything that made pre-Metro era Windows good. Microsoft has destroyed user trust in the last 6 years, and surprise - disinterested developers are among those users.
 
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DPI said:
Except PC users don't need "banking apps" and "social media apps" because the PC is not a phone. It's called a web browser.
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But PCs and phones do many of the same things, including web browsing, indeed phones are being used more for web browsing than PCs these days.

DPI said:
And maybe MS should have focused more resources on making the best browser on the market, instead of the half baked mobile app Edge that *still* freezes and crashes every other time opening a new tab. And FFS, not limited it to one version of Windows.
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Of course. I've got about 60 tabs open in Edge currently on my sig rig typing this.

DPI said:
There is nothing good about the "Windows store" for anyone but MS and its paid per post shills. Even perfectly good Win32 based freeware if UWP-wrappered with centennial would mean its files would be needlessly obfuscated, locked away from the user and DRM'd.
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Well I guess you don't use Netflix or Hulu on a Windows 10 device. The apps are better than the web site, particularly Netflix with downloading. I doubt that feature will ever come to browsers.

DPI said:
You guys will never get it. Developers aren't interested in the store not only because of lack of market. Many are opposed for philosophical reasons. They're KEENLY aware that feeding the windows store would mean feeding a cancer that would begin to eat away at everything that made pre-Metro era Windows good. Microsoft has destroyed user trust in the last 6 years, and surprise - disinterested developers are among those users.
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I get it because people like you say it constantly. Fine. I'll take advantage of what is in the Store if it suits my purposes. I'm certainly going to use something like the Netflix app and download things on the go because I'm paying for the service and don't really care about people bitching over stuff that makes things if just a little bit better.
 
Snowdog said:
Imagine if All PCs come with Windows S, and user have to pay $50 to unlock full access. How many will? Maybe a lot today. How many 5 years from now?

Ultimately we will lose. :(
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This is what I think will happen also. Basically it is almost like a one time subscription cost to get access to run any program.
I will go Linux at that time.
 
Dk975 said:
This is what I think will happen also. Basically it is almost like a one time subscription cost to get access to run any program.
I will go Linux at that time.
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But how is that any different from today? Indeed if Linux had the ability to run all of the software that Windows does no one would pay to use Windows.
 
heatlesssun said:
But how is that any different from today? Indeed if Linux had the ability to run all of the software that Windows does no one would pay to use Windows.
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So your saying people pay to run malware.

Linux has software solutions for every use case you can name. Even the same olds you guys like to trot out like photo shop and office now work flawlessly in a browser window. Average users already use a ton of cross platform software, and cloud based software doesn't care what OS you are running local.

Using windows is analogous to smoking. Paying someone to kill you seems only slightly stupider then paying someone to infect your PC while spying on you.
 
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Microsoft should make the Windows Store free to use, as in they don't take any money from app sales. They don't make any money off win32 apps so I don't see why they should get a piece of the pie for apps sold through their store. I think it would help attract more devs to try releasing their apps to the Windows Store. Keep it open and don't take a penny. Just maintain and expand the features of the store and let the devs bring over software without any cuts in sales.

I like the idea of the Windows Store. I can't handle my parents installing additional software in windows installers just because all they do is hit next and next and next and finish without looking at the checkboxes. Just keep it free. The devs made the program, give them all of the money that they make. Same goes for Play Store and App Store. Greedy companies. An OS is an OS.
 
NeoGohan said:
Microsoft should make the Windows Store free to use, as in they don't take any money from app sales. They don't make any money off win32 apps so I don't see why they should get a piece of the pie for apps sold through their store. I think it would help attract more devs to try releasing their apps to the Windows Store. Keep it open and don't take a penny. Just maintain and expand the features of the store and let the devs bring over software without any cuts in sales.

I like the idea of the Windows Store. I can't handle my parents installing additional software in windows installers just because all they do is hit next and next and next and finish without looking at the checkboxes. Just keep it free. The devs made the program, give them all of the money that they make. Same goes for Play Store and App Store. Greedy companies. An OS is an OS.
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That would be one solution. I'm not sure MS has earned the trust of developers to pull it off though. By that I mean, I wouldn't trust MS not to end the freebie and intro % costs down the road. Free until it catches on with developers... then they make full windows 10 store only followed by an end to the free lunch. That would be MS style... and why I doubt all that many developers would even bite at free.

No matter what MS claims... we all know in their perfect world everyone running windows 10 would pay a sub, it would be store only and they would take a cut from every piece of software sold forever more. I believe a large number of developers believe that is MS dream and the one and only reason -s is. Its why they must at all costs resist.
 
heatlesssun said:
And I have used this class of device for nearly two years under Windows 10 like many others who have found them to work well for light to mid- range duties which is exactly the audience for this type of hardware.
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Good for you!

Sadly the masses don't understand how a device with the lowest end Intel processor, 4GB of ram and the slowest eMMC with next to no capacity just isn't capable of browsing, running Office and transferring photo's off their phone while doing a virus scan using Norton's at a speed faster than snail's pace with a never ending pit of disk thrashing. An issue that only gets worse as that 64GB eMMC begins to fill up when running desktop Windows.

Again, Windows 10 desktop operating systems are mildly better than their predecessors when it comes to low end hardware, but the experience is still far from ideal when there are solutions that work better on such hardware.

You're but one person with a very biased opinion, I'm speaking on behalf of hundreds of clients I've dealt with over the years. People think I'm speaking with a bias against Microsoft, I'm really not, I'm just calling a spade a spade and don't believe in blowing hot air where it's not warranted.
 
NeoGohan said:
Microsoft should make the Windows Store free to use, as in they don't take any money from app sales. They don't make any money off win32 apps so I don't see why they should get a piece of the pie for apps sold through their store.
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Through the Windows Store you get distribution, transaction processing and DRM. If Microsoft did all of that for free or at cost then Valve and others would have a big reason to worry.
 
BulletDust said:
Sadly the masses don't understand how a device with the lowest end Intel processor, 4GB of ram and the slowest eMMC with next to no capacity just isn't capable of browsing, running Office and transferring photo's off their phone while doing a virus scan using Norton's at a speed faster than snail's pace with a never ending pit of disk thrashing. An issue that only gets worse as that 64GB eMMC begins to fill up when running desktop Windows.
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Who puts Norton on these devices? Running Office and web browsing simulteanously isn't a problem and there is such a thing as cloud storage, it's not like you'd transfer photos from a phone to Chromebook's internal storage. But transferring dozens at time still would be a big problem for this kind of device. If you're going to be running lots of desktop apps, then you're going to need more than 64 GB anyway. Again, just not sure where you coming up with this stuff. These devices aren't new and they actually seem to be pretty popular in terms of cost and what they can do. A lot of people buy them for traveling and secondary use, not as a primary device.

BulletDust said:
Again, Windows 10 desktop operating systems are mildly better than their predecessors when it comes to low end hardware, but the experience is still far from ideal when there are solutions that work better on such hardware.

You're but one person with a very biased opinion, I'm speaking on behalf of hundreds of clients I've dealt with over the years. People think I'm speaking with a bias against Microsoft, I'm really not, I'm just calling a spade a spade and don't believe in blowing hot air where it's not warranted.
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I'm one person that has used Windows on a lot of different kinds of hardware and I know a lot about how various versions of Windows perform on these low end devices since I've been a long time Windows tablet user. Hardware has certainly improved but Windows 10 on modern Atom/Celeron devices is MUCH better then Windows 7 on Atom/Celeron class devices on from 7 to 8 years ago. For people with basic needs yes these devices are very usable especially given their price point.
 
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GoldenTiger said:
I see the Linux brigade is out in force today. They hate Windows blindly like people hate Trump blindly. Ignore the Linux folk here and it is a higher quality forum.
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It's a comments section, it's a congregation of people who hate everything (except Linux).
 
heatlesssun said:
Who puts Norton on these devices? Running Office and web browsing simulteanously isn't a problem and there is such a thing as cloud storage, it's not like you'd transfer photos from a phone to Chromebook's internal storage. But transferring dozens at time still would be a big problem for this kind of device. If you're going to be running lots of desktop apps, then you're going to need more than 64 GB anyway. Again, just not sure where you coming up with this stuff. These devices aren't new and they actually seem to be pretty popular in terms of cost and what they can do. A lot of people buy them for traveling and secondary use, not as a primary device.
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Windows is a cesspool of infections, the masses are paranoid of such things as they just keep getting infected and want third a party antivirus solution that they deem to be effective - The most well known package out there is Norton's. You wouldn't know anything about this as your experience on a PC in general is limited to a selection of Windows products as proudly highlighted by yourself and your experience regarding tech in the workplace is tightly controlled. As stated before, the simple task of installing HP printer drivers will max out a low end CPU for roughly half an hour, in this time the machine is effectively useless for anything else in a way that can in any way be deemed practical.

Windows 10 is better than it's predecessors on low end hardware, but there are still better solutions out there and Windows 10 on low end hardware is still a fairly painful experience considering the demands of the unknowledgable masses.

An update will literally kill the system for an hour or more.

heatlesssun said:
I'm one person that has used Windows on a lot of different kinds of hardware and I know a lot about how various versions of Windows perform on these low end devices since I've been a long time Windows tablet user. Hardware has certainly improved but Windows 10 on modern Atom/Celeron devices is MUCH better then Windows 7 on Atom/Celeron class devices on from 7 to 8 years ago. For people with basic needs yes these devices are very usable especially given their price point.
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I never argued that W10 wasn't better than it's predecessors, however it's not that much better, you're vastly overstating the capabilities of your chosen OS once things start filling up and Windows rot begins to set in. The fact is, such machines just piss the masses off and turn even more people off Windows 10 as an OS. For reasons why, see post above.
 
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heatlesssun said:
Through the Windows Store you get distribution, transaction processing and DRM. If Microsoft did all of that for free or at cost then Valve and others would have a big reason to worry.
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Those other companies don't lock out competition when installed >.< That is the issue with -s heatle. I don't care if windows store is the absolute best store ever created.... MS doesn't believe it in clearly or they wouldn't have to lock out any other method of software installation. There is NOTHING stopping them from taking a cut of their store just as they are now... AND offering a SECURE container format that would allow people to install downloaded software which would hook installation into their store (package manager... heck they could even call it Windows Store / Software manager), forcing such a container format to follow sand boxing and other for your own good security measures would be great. Sure they would make no money on that software... but it would be more secure. If their store offered a value proposition customers would still use it. Forcing the only option for software installation to be their store tells me they can't handle competition.
 
BulletDust said:
I never argued that W10 wasn't better than it's predecessors, however it's not that much better, you're vastly overstating the capabilities of your chosen OS once things start filling up and Windows rot begins to set in. The fact is, such machines just piss the masses off and turn even more people off Windows 10 as an OS. For reasons why, see post above.
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Have to agree... I also will say windows 10 is better then any version of windows since XP on cheapo hardware. Still it is far from good. Hell I will say it even full Linux distros are not ideal anymore on cheapo hardware. I can make a linux distro behave well by setting up zram and selecting slimmed down DE ect... but just a stock install of the major distros on chromebook type hardware will likewise run like shit. ChromeOS doesn't run like shit cause well its stripped to the boards and out of the box has things like zram auto configured.

Windows 10 I don't care what you want to say about your over priced designed by MS lowball hardware runs like crap on actual low ball (sub $300) hardware. Which is sort of what Microsoft is suggesting education clients at least will be buying -s on.
 
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