Windows just works and Other OS improvements

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ManofGod

ManofGod

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The one thing I am absolutely amazed by everyday is that Windows nowadays just works. That was not always the case back in the 90's with the non ring memory model of the operating systems. Most of the time, nowadays, if there is an issue, it is usually related to unintentional user error or hardware failures. :D

The cool thing is, even Linux and MacOS have become far more stable and useful than they were back in the day. I do miss my Amiga OS, although a guru meditation error are memorable. :D I did enjoy using all the OSes and still do, it is just that some, like the aformentioned Amiga OS and OS/2 Warp are no longer here, for the most part. It is really a shame though because many folks are only willing to focus on what they perceive as the negative and make one sided claims for the only favorite OS well bashing anything that does not fit their point of view.

No BSODs, no crashing, no instability, no worries. Of course, I do get nit picky with my own systems if I do have an issue but, that is just the way I am in those cases. Heck, even my game consoles have no issues but, of course, their OSes are hardware specific and therefore, are bound to have almost no problems.
 
Need to fix the title of the thread to "Windows 7 just works..." :D

And just for the record based on my own experience of using the Windows operating system since pre-1.0 days so very long ago: most - and I do mean the overwhelming majority aka > 95% - of the errors that people do have when running Windows isn't with Windows itself meaning the core base OS but instead with third party drivers and software and there's a reason for that:

Because Windows is closed proprietary OS and only Microsoft itself truly knows every tiny last bit of the source code the best that outside developers could ever do is work with the info that Microsoft presents to them in terms of the APIs and HAL specs and they're on their own after that for writing drivers for the hardware that some manufacturers make and also software that some software developers make.

For that reason alone I would have to agree that - in all these years - Windows still continues to work as well as it does based on the near infinite variety of hardware configurations possible considering the decades of hardware development that have occurred since the early 1980s and continuing.

That's not to say that I favor what Microsoft is doing now with turning Windows into nothing more than a rolling release that's been more fraught with problems since Windows 10 first appeared than other versions of the OS - most notably Windows 7 - have not experienced. I've said it many times before: change for the sake of change alone is not a good thing, ever.

<cue heatlesssun's entrance...> :D
 
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no worries..except when a windwos10 update decided to delete software on your system without asking you...
 
While AmigaOS has gone the way of the Dodo, OS2/Warp became the underlying codebase of Windows NT and lives on today...just not in a recognizable form. For us old timers whenever you do a collaboration with Microsoft you lose!
 
Win10 has been good for me, though I get the very VERY occasional Start button/ModernUI app weirdness. Last week Edge just decided it wasn't gonna open anymore, and I had to reboot to fix it. Very odd.

Oh, and as a former "Team OS/2" member, it's interesting to see yet another company try to resurrect it: https://www.arcanoae.com/blue-lion/
Hopefully it works out better than eComStation.
 
quasar56 said:
While AmigaOS has gone the way of the Dodo, OS2/Warp became the underlying codebase of Windows NT and lives on today...just not in a recognizable form. For us old timers whenever you do a collaboration with Microsoft you lose!
Click to expand...
Warp came out long after MS and IBM parted ways. Windows 3.x actually borrows a lot of the OS/2 1.x GUI elements. No, really. http://toastytech.com/guis/MOS2.html. That is OS/2.
 
SvenBent said:
no worries..except when a windwos10 update decided to delete software on your system without asking you...
Click to expand...

I have no issues with it removing something that has actual known compatibility issues, much better than inexplicable crashes after an update. Also, the fact that it lets you know afterwards, which is a good thing. Most folks are not going to have any idea what to do with a remove this or I will not install this update and you will get no more after this until I do dialog box.
 
Tiberian said:
Need to fix the title of the thread to "Windows 7 just works..." :D

And just for the record based on my own experience of using the Windows operating system since pre-1.0 days so very long ago: most - and I do mean the overwhelming majority aka > 95% - of the errors that people do have when running Windows isn't with Windows itself meaning the core base OS but instead with third party drivers and software and there's a reason for that:

Because Windows is closed proprietary OS and only Microsoft itself truly knows every tiny last bit of the source code the best that outside developers could ever do is work with the info that Microsoft presents to them in terms of the APIs and HAL specs and they're on their own after that for writing drivers for the hardware that some manufacturers make and also software that some software developers make.

For that reason alone I would have to agree that - in all these years - Windows still continues to work as well as it does based on the near infinite variety of hardware configurations possible considering the decades of hardware development that have occurred since the early 1980s and continuing.

That's not to say that I favor what Microsoft is doing now with turning Windows into nothing more than a rolling release that's been more fraught with problems since Windows 10 first appeared than other versions of the OS - most notably Windows 7 - have not experienced. I've said it many times before: change for the sake of change alone is not a good thing, ever.

<cue heatlesssun's entrance...> :D
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LOL! :D at the last sentence.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but Windows 10 I don't see as change for the sake of change but change that aligns to what computing has become in a generation since the release of Windows 1.0 was released. So much is different now and Windows originally was never designed for these things. All Windows was in the beginning was a mouse driven GUI on top of DOS designed for low resolution displays and non-mobile/portable devices. There was no such thing as the internet for consumers, few even has modems in 1986. No touch screen devices, no social networks, no cloud. I think to say that Windows 10 represent change for the sake of change considering where it started and where we today in computing doesn't make a lot of sense. The computing world is vastly different just 8 years ago when Windows 7 as released. Just think about how many more desktops where in use than that today.

So Windows 10 is a culmination of changes across the board from who software is developed to what kind of software that is to how devices are connected to what those devices are. And the simple truth is that the progression of these things just don't favor the desktop and computing concepts from 30 generally with some exceptions. The standard WIMP (windows, icons, menus, pointer) paradigm still dominates computer productivity work.

As for Windows 10 to me personally, I have it running on a lot of different kinds of devices, more than any prior version of Windows I've used and I've for a long time myself. Not really sure what single OS out there can do all that I'm doing with it.
 
Sorry to burst your balloon Mano but Windows has never 'just worked'. There are huge problems with the updates breaking peoples setups and destroying backwards compatibility. Then there's the 'telemetry' i.e. spying embedded in the OS. What's up with that shit? Nobody wants it. Nobody gave permission to it. Windows should be a free product if Microsoft seeks revenue from data mining.
 
quasar56 said:
While you are correct that both had parted ways....my point was that any joint venture with Microsoft was bad during those times.
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Not when it came to OS/2 and IBM. I remember using OS/2 Warp 3 quite a bit and it was a fantastic and quick OS. Having the ability to fully run Windows 3.1 programs, DOS programs and even boot real DOS inside of OS/2 was a great experience. However, IBM killed it off themselves since they did not want to be in the consumer market anymore. It was all on them and not on Microsoft.
 
B00nie said:
Sorry to burst your balloon Mano but Windows has never 'just worked'. There are huge problems with the updates breaking peoples setups and destroying backwards compatibility. Then there's the 'telemetry' i.e. spying embedded in the OS. What's up with that shit? Nobody wants it. Nobody gave permission to it. Windows should be a free product if Microsoft seeks revenue from data mining.
Click to expand...

With something that supports the array of hardware and software that Windows does, it's never going to be perfect. The question is what is the trouble rate? There's no easy way to determine that. And as much as people call the telemetry data mining for profit, telemetry is a useful way to diagnose and troubleshoot issues. That's why Microsoft and lots of other development intuitions use it. There's simply no way to manually capture and diagnose every single issue that occurs with complex technology manually.
 
B00nie said:
Sorry to burst your balloon Mano but Windows has never 'just worked'. There are huge problems with the updates breaking peoples setups and destroying backwards compatibility. Then there's the 'telemetry' i.e. spying embedded in the OS. What's up with that shit? Nobody wants it. Nobody gave permission to it. Windows should be a free product if Microsoft seeks revenue from data mining.
Click to expand...

Ahahahahahahahahahaah.,...... breathes in......hahahahahahahahahaha,,,,,, LOL At elast you are consistent, I will give you that. I am not going to debate stupid crap with you cause you never listen. Oh, and this is on a Windows 10 machine inside of Firefox and guess what? It just works, who would have thought. :D

Edit: Oh, and you may want to do more research in your claims if you think Linux and Mac OS is any different with problems. However, then again, with Linux having such a small market share and backwards support being mostly non existent on the newest versions......
 
ManofGod said:
Not when it came to OS/2 and IBM. I remember using OS/2 Warp 3 quite a bit and it was a fantastic and quick OS. Having the ability to fully run Windows 3.1 programs, DOS programs and even boot real DOS inside of OS/2 was a great experience. However, IBM killed it off themselves since they did not want to be in the consumer market anymore. It was all on them and not on Microsoft.
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I was working at a bank when it was decided that OS/2 would be used for teller workstations. The problem was that so much of the software was becoming Windows based and the Windows 3.1 compatibility was very necessary to make OS/2 viable for us. Then Windows 95. That's what killed OS/2. Now how it happened, if it was Microsoft being an evil monopolist, maybe. But there where some DEEP disagreements over where Microsoft was going with 95 and what IBM wanted or was thinking and that's what did OS/2 in. Again, I'm completely willing to say that Microsoft was totally to blame but Windows 95 was the divide.
 
ManofGod said:
Ahahahahahahahahahaah.,...... breathes in......hahahahahahahahahaha,,,,,, LOL At elast you are consistent, I will give you that. I am not going to debate stupid crap with you cause you never listen. Oh, and this is on a Windows 10 machine inside of Firefox and guess what? It just works, who would have thought. :D

Edit: Oh, and you may want to do more research in your claims if you think Linux and Mac OS is any different with problems. However, then again, with Linux having such a small market share and backwards support being mostly non existent on the newest versions......
Click to expand...

Wow you really convinced me now. You managed to boot up and use firefox to surf the internet. I'm sold. Too bad Microsoft keylogged and stored your activities in the process - but I guess that doesn't bother you.
 
B00nie said:
Wow you really convinced me now. You managed to boot up and use firefox to surf the internet. I'm sold. Too bad Microsoft keylogged and stored your activities in the process - but I guess that doesn't bother you.
Click to expand...

Too bad they did not but, I guess that does bother you, good luck. :D Oh, and if you do not like the fact that Windows just works, there is always the Linux forum right below this one. Have fun and as always, stayed unconvinced. :)
 
ManofGod said:
I have no issues with it removing something that has actual known compatibility issues, much better than inexplicable crashes after an update. Also, the fact that it lets you know afterwards, which is a good thing. Most folks are not going to have any idea what to do with a remove this or I will not install this update and you will get no more after this until I do dialog
box.
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It let me known afterwards? see how i found out was it was just gone... i played a games before CC update with deamons tool. and when i wanted to re remont the iso after CC Deamons tools was just gone. So I cant agree on that windows 10 has in anyway informed me when it removed deamon tool.
if you want digital parenting thats fine. Some of us actually like to have control on our own computer.
 
SvenBent said:
It let me known afterwards? see how i found out was it was just gone... i played a games before CC update with deamons tool. and when i wanted to re remont the iso after CC Deamons tools was just gone. So I cant agree on that windows 10 has in anyway informed me when it removed deamon tool.
if you want digital parenting thats fine. Some of us actually like to have control on our own computer.
Click to expand...

That's cool, I am sure you will not blame MS when your computer takes a shit because of that incompatible program. /s :coldfeet::brb::rolleyes:
 
rezerekted said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2

OS/2 is a series of computer operating systems, initially created by Microsoft and IBM, then later developed by IBM exclusively.

Never used it myself. Back then I liked Mac but went PC for home use because of PC gaming.
Click to expand...
OS/2 was a sort of surreal experience back in the day. My favorite part of the 2.0/2.1 installer was you'd feed in the first few floppies, and it would just unceremoniously drop you to the desktop. It would still be asking for disks, but you're at a functional desktop, watching things pop into existence as they get installed. You could use an OS that wasn't finished being installed yet. @.@

The other trick was running multiple DOS windows. Anyone in those days knew Windows could barely handle it. OS/2 did it with ease. I ran my BBS from two DOS sessions, and it was totally flawless, and I could even keep using the OS while the DOS windows were minimized in the background. Even NT couldn't really pull that off without timeslicing the DOS sessions badly and causing all kinds of issues.
 
ManofGod said:
That's cool, I am sure you will not blame MS when your computer takes a shit because of that incompatible program. /s :coldfeet::brb::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Of the tens of thousands of machines with BSOD I've fixed, blaming Microsoft from some other programs behavior has never occurred.
Beside I really Dont see what this has to do with having control of your own system is, but i guess childish argument with weird self-made statements and accusations is what some people fall back to ,when they have no logical valid arguments?
And you where still wrong in regards to the information, but i guess you didnt wanna comment that anymore...

As i said its fine you want to be babysat. Some of us just dont.
Some people like to have mommy and daddy around to fix everything foe them through life, and somebody don't.
 
SvenBent said:
Of the tens of thousands of machines with BSOD I've fixed, blaming Microsoft from some other programs behavior has never occurred.
Beside I really Dont see what this has to do with having control of your own system is, but i guess childish argument with weird self-made statements and accusations is what some people fall back to ,when they have no logical valid arguments?
And you where still wrong in regards to the information, but i guess you didnt wanna comment that anymore...

As i said its fine you want to be babysat. Some of us just dont.
Some people like to have mommy and daddy around to fix everything foe them through life, and somebody don't.
Click to expand...

That's cool dude, what you call babysitting I call dealing with the way things are. I prefer my machine to actually work correctly and if there is an known compatibility issue with a newest OS update, I would prefer that program be removed or at least completely disabled. This hark ens back to the automatic skip driver agent of Windows 98 days. Also, you daemon tools being removed was directly reported when you logged in and that message came up on the right hand side for a few seconds.

If you prefer to have a BSOD instead of something occurring to prevent that BSOD, I am sure you can be accommodated. Personally, I prefer that my OS just keep on working, which it most definitely does. Also, what I said, I actually meant, MS gets the blame when something else causes an issue and when MS could have prevented it. Then they get the blame when they prevent it and folks complain about not having control. It would not surprise me if you did just that, just saying. If not, then I am wrong about you but, it happens, no biggie.
 
MS hit their peak back around windows 7. Since then I don't think you can argue windows has improved at all. Yes you can go through a bunch of things MS claims to have improved... things that many users hate. Their update system has devolved into something laughable. Everything they have added to windows since 7 has been cosmetic. Feature wise mostly they have removed. User options have been dumbed down... I mean they even removed the ability to change system fonts for some reason.

Hardware compatibility is worse then it has ever been... I know heatle is going to respond with No its not. The bottom line is MS admits its an issue. (which I do give them kudos for) MS has slowed the roll out of their latest creators update so they can solve hardware issues before updating people. They have had issues with TONs of hardware AMD Nvidia GPUs for people like heatle that care about games are top of the list, and regular folks with Intel cards have been reverting back to year old drivers in some cases to stop flickering ect.

Nvidia does a good job of detailing issues in its notes, this is from the 381.89 release notes. (they list 3 open issues for win 7 in comparison) Granted one issue is DX12 related... but most are issues with older hardware and the issue is clearly MS newer OS.

Windows 10 Issues
  • [GeForce Experience]: Driver installation may fail when attempting to perform a driver overinstall. To workaround, perform a clean installation.
  • [SLI][GeForce GTX 1080][Battlefield 1 XP1]: With SLI enabled, corruption appears in the game when switching between full-screen and windowed mode. [1889162]
  • [GeForce GTX 1080 Ti][Mass Effect: Andromeda]: Random memory errors may occur when playing the game. [1887520]
  • [GeForce GTX 1080 Ti][Sid Meirie's Civilization VI][G-Sync/SLI/DirectX 12]: Black corruption appears while entering the in-game menu after skipping the cutscene. [200283322]
  • [GeForce GTX Titan X][Ansel][Ghost Recon Wild lands]: With FXAA enabled from the NVIDIA Control Panel, the application crashes when enabling the in-game Ansel UI. [200283194]
  • Error code 43 appears in the Device Manager after installing the driver with HDMI display connected. [200283276]
  • [Pascal][Notebook]: The display remains blank while over installing the driver, requiring a reboot. [200273603]
  • [GM204, Tom Clancy's The Division Survival DLC] Game crashes, pointing to ntdll.dll when changed to full-screen and to windowed full-screen. [200252894]
  • [GM204, ShadowPlay] For Honor silently may crash if the intro video is skipped while instant replay is on. [200247313]
  • [SLI] [GeForce GTX 970M] Level loading may hang in Gears of War 4. [1826307]
  • [367.77, WDDM 2.1] Driver install/overinstall requires a reboot. [1757931]
  • [SLI, GP104] Installer prompts for a reboot during express overinstall of 372.69 driver on 372.54. [200231806]
  • [GM204] Quantum Break window either remains blank or freezes in game scene in windowed mode. [1804910]
  • Surround Display icon disappears after rotate mode is set to portrait. [200201040]
  • [SLI] Street Fighter V performance drop (pause and play) observed when the game is played at 4K resolution with SLI enabled. [200172046]
  • [Luxmark 3.0] Display driver stopped responding while running benchmark LuxBall HDR (Simple Bechmark:217K triangles). [200153736]
  • [347.09, GM204] Blank screen observed on an ASUS Tiled display when system resumes from shutdown or hibernation with Fast boot option enabled from BIOS. [1591053]
I like the idea of this thread... saying yes see we are all coming along. I would be very happy if I felt that where true. In my opinion and experience it is not true. MacOS is always improving... and they recently pushed a fantastic new file system. Linux is Linux and gets better and better all the time. Windows has been devolving for quite a few years now... and all the things people love to say MS has over everyone else has been evaporating, including things people still take for granted like Hardware support.
 
There are a number of things in this list that run only under Windows 10. It's not like Linux gamers are even playing these games. I have 200 games installed on my sig rig. I challenge any Linux gamer to touch what I do gaming wise. $5K USD for any Linux gamer that runs all the games I do natively under Linux. No WINE or passthrough. Hell, I'll take VR off the table because not one supposed Linux gamer that slams the shit out me uses it.
 
ManofGod said:
That's cool dude, what you call babysitting I call dealing with the way things are. I prefer my machine to actually work correctly and if there is an known compatibility issue with a newest OS update, I would prefer that program be removed or at least completely disabled. This hark ens back to the automatic skip driver agent of Windows 98 days. Also, you daemon tools being removed was directly reported when you logged in and that message came up on the right hand side for a few seconds.

If you prefer to have a BSOD instead of something occurring to prevent that BSOD, I am sure you can be accommodated. Personally, I prefer that my OS just keep on working, which it most definitely does. Also, what I said, I actually meant, MS gets the blame when something else causes an issue and when MS could have prevented it. Then they get the blame when they prevent it and folks complain about not having control. It would not surprise me if you did just that, just saying. If not, then I am wrong about you but, it happens, no biggie.
Click to expand...

Again you are working under a lot of made of statements. Is it really that hard to handle reality for you? You do a lot of assuming without any evidence to support.

How is my system working when the thing i used got deleted? The update reduced the functionality of my system that i had to fix. so no the OS did not fix something for me. it destroyed something for me that i had to fix, and was only able to fix it because i my self found the error since the OS gave no information whats so ever.
calling that "Actual work" is a far stretch in any use of the concept because it did very much NOT work for the intended use of my system.

or in short: My machine ran as intended before the update. Then it broke because of the update, you believe did the right choice to make things running smoothly... yet it didn't run smoothly after that choice.
 
heatlesssun said:
There are a number of things in this list that run only under Windows 10. It's not like Linux gamers are even playing these games. I have 200 games installed on my sig rig. I challenge any Linux gamer to touch what I do gaming wise. $5K USD for any Linux gamer that runs all the games I do natively under Linux. No WINE or passthrough. Hell, I'll take VR off the table because not one supposed Linux gamer that slams the shit out me uses it.
Click to expand...

But but but VR.

Good answer heatle.

The point of my post isn't specific games. Its pure and simple that MS is breaking hardware compatibility with their newest OS and its updates. You like to claim that regular folks Love windows because their hardware just works. Well with MS most recent windows update millions of people with AMD, NVIDIA, and Intel GPUs are having serious issues. I posted the Nvidia list because of all the GPU companies they are good about listing specific issues in their driver releases. They also break down issues by VERSION OF WINDOWS, as I said in my first post their are 3 known issues with windows 7. Of all the known issues Nvidia posted in regards to 10 ONE of them is specific to DX 12 and Windows 10 the rest are all issues caused by Win 10 that do not occur when running windows 7 or 8. The issues people are having with a bunch of Intel GPUs is even worse... with people having to revert to year+ old drivers in some cases.

So put your gaming and VR away heatle. I was talking about this supposed fantastic hardware support your always going on about. Games are not the only reason to use any of the Operating systems. Windows is not Xbox-PC edition. The last month people running integrated Intel gpus and don't game at all have been caught up in MS devolving state of hardware support. So this thread is claiming everything is awesome and every current OS just works, well I disagree. Windows is a hot mess of painful updates that more and more are causing issues with hardware drivers from third parties. I don't know if MS code base has just spun up into a monster or what the issue is... but its real and folks are noticing. Its ok though load up a VR beach program and stick your head in the sand... make sure you strap that goofy looking pair of goggles on tight so they don't fall off.
 
ChadD said:
But but but VR.
Click to expand...

I said I'd take VR off the table since nothing you posted had anything to do with VR yet the first sentence was about VR. Linux sucks for gaming. Problems on Windows, none existence on Linux.
 
Talk about a click bait thread....

Worship a declining OS all you like in this thread, not interested in participating in such bullshit discussion. Funny thing is, I make a fortune out of rectifying the plethora of Windows 10 issues, issues that weren't present under Windows 7 - Wouldn't want it any other way. :rolleyes:

The only real reason for Guru Meditation's under AmigaOS was the complete lack of protected memory in one of the first preemptive multitasking operating systems made available to the consumer in the 80's. I still use AmigaOS 3.1 and it rarely crashes on me.
 
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quasar56 said:
...OS2/Warp became the underlying codebase of Windows NT and lives on today...just not in a recognizable form. For us old timers whenever you do a collaboration with Microsoft you lose!
Click to expand...

Nice theory but completely incorrect.
The Windows NT line of OS'es has a direct lineage back to VMS.
Architected by the same designer and developed by the same core team. NT is in effect a fully object orientated, GUI driven implementation of an updated form of VMS.

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-client/windows-nt-and-vms-rest-story
 
rezerekted said:
No, he had it a long time. He said that around 1993 when PC was the machine to own for gaming.
Click to expand...

It would have been 'juust' the machine to own for gaming, coinciding with the release of Doom and real 3D acceleration. Before Doom, gaming on the PC was a fairly ordinary state of affairs to say the least.
 
BulletDust said:
It would have been 'juust' the machine to own for gaming, coinciding with the release of Doom and real 3D acceleration. Before Doom, gaming on the PC was a fairly ordinary state of affairs to say the least.
Click to expand...

We had some good flightsims too back then - Fleet Defender, 1942 Pacific Air War, Falcon 3.0, Red Baron, etc. That is what I mostly played back then anyway.
 
Really odd thing to say on a forum that has a LOT of PC gamers where we're asking one another about gaming all of the time.
 
rezerekted said:
We had some good flightsims too back then - Fleet Defender, 1942 Pacific Air War, Falcon 3.0, Red Baron, etc. That is what I mostly played back then anyway.
Click to expand...

I loved playing Flight Simulator and Falcon on my Amiga, it was a blast. I also enjoyed the F18 simulator and landing on that sub with the carrier landing deck. :)
 
BulletDust said:
Talk about a click bait thread....

Worship a declining OS all you like in this thread, not interested in participating in such bullshit discussion. Funny thing is, I make a fortune out of rectifying the plethora of Windows 10 issues, issues that weren't present under Windows 7 - Wouldn't want it any other way. :rolleyes:

The only real reason for Guru Meditation's under AmigaOS was the complete lack of protected memory in one of the first preemptive multitasking operating systems made available to the consumer in the 80's. I still use AmigaOS 3.1 and it rarely crashes on me.
Click to expand...

Dude, if you have an issue, take it somewhere else, that is not the place for it. Also, there is nothing click baity about the title, it is what it is. If you are not interested, what the hell are you doing here? You will not derail this thread with your crap, period. Sad thing is, you could have just shared the Amiga part and that would be cool but no, you just cannot help yourself, eh?
 
Well the usual folks just get bent out of shape with anything positive said about Windows 10 and anyone who says something positive is some sort of paid shill, really personal attacks that need to start being reported because it's against forum rules to do what they imply and without evidence they just need to drop all that drama. Some people just like Windows 10, it works without incident for many. But instead of just accepting the simple truth they have to get personal.
 
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