Scientists Find New Hurdles in Accessing Old Data from Archaic Media

cageymaru

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Scientists have found a new challenge in trying to recover data stored on old media. "Flippies" and other long forgotten and archaic data storage techniques were used by scientists in the 1970's to store important information that is useful for today's researchers. First a machine that can read the older media needs to be found. This is harder than it seems as most machines were either recycled long ago, or are no longer reliable due to age. Then the data on the disks is only readable in old programs without a modern equivalent. Sometimes old machines can be found to read it, but virtual machines are taking over that work. Using tools such as hex editors, computer forensic scientists can recreate the lost information stored on the media. Even then it will take even more time to figure out what the columns of 1's and 0's mean.

Parker's experience encapsulates the problems that many researchers encounter. Retrieving information from defunct data-storage media is like unlocking a series of cages, says Bertram Lyons, an archivist with AVPreserve in Madison, Wisconsin. “Scientists have information trapped in older formats. Some are physical barriers, some are encoded structures. Both can go obsolete.”

The biggest hurdle is sometimes not technological but human, digital archivists say. It's not enough to extract a file just to learn that it has 6 columns and 100,000 rows; researchers need to know what the numbers mean. Archivists led by Amy Pienta at the Interuniversity Consortium for Political and Social Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan, for instance, bought a refurbished punch-card reader to retrieve data from a large, longitudinal study of retirement from the 1950s. But after physical punches were converted to ASCII numeric codes, they needed preserved codebooks to know what the numbers referred to — did a code of '1' mean yes or no?
 
Some BS when double sided wasn't a thing.
I don't really get this. If it hasn't been archived into new formats, then the value of the data probably isn't worth it to archive now.

You'd be surprised how many government secrets that are stored on old media.
 
Some BS when double sided wasn't a thing.
I don't really get this. If it hasn't been archived into new formats, then the value of the data probably isn't worth it to archive now.

You'd be surprised how many government secrets that are stored on old media.

NASA has lost multiple treasure troves worth of information from storage media and institutional knowledge that was current in the 60's to early 70's but has been forgotten, lost, or is just plain unrecoverable now.

Old U.S. census data is actually far, far more comprehensive the current data because at the turn of the 20th century, the forms had more and more thorough questions and people had a greater likelihood of responding.
 
You'd be surprised how many government secrets that are stored on old media.

Hell, it's not just secrets. In the 2000's you'd still find certain government systems running with those 8 1/2" floppies and the two-man carry, 75 lb, 40 MB hard drives. Hardened, wartime comms systems and bunkers are like that because the machines and the closed networks they're on are damn near impervious to most of the natural and man-made disasters that most corporate DR plans accept as inevitable downtime, in case of disaster.
 
I have an unopened box of blank floppies like that (and the cleaning kit). I'm hoping someday they will be worth something
 
Some BS when double sided wasn't a thing.
I don't really get this. If it hasn't been archived into new formats, then the value of the data probably isn't worth it to archive now.

A fair amount of historical climate data is from old weathered handwriten naval logs, sometimes centuries old. Wasn't used for a long time, now has value.
 
that seems like a lot of work just to dig up someones old porn stash
 
Hey some of those old porn pics were way hotter than the photoshopped girls out there today...
Lenna.png


(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna if you don't know the reference)
 
Some BS when double sided wasn't a thing.
I don't really get this. If it hasn't been archived into new formats, then the value of the data probably isn't worth it to archive now.

First.. it was Floppys, someone please beat the person calling them flippies, and yes, even as far back as Apple II days we cut a notch out of our floppies and flipped them over for double the storage... it worked.. but had a tendency to go bad after a lot of use because the media wasn't designed for it, so backing up on a weekly basis, or just outright copy sessions were common on Fridays before everybody fired up for Wizardry binges
 
First.. it was Floppys, someone please beat the person calling them flippies, and yes, even as far back as Apple II days we cut a notch out of our floppies and flipped them over for double the storage... it worked.. but had a tendency to go bad after a lot of use because the media wasn't designed for it, so backing up on a weekly basis, or just outright copy sessions were common on Fridays before everybody fired up for Wizardry binges

Lol I already forgot the notch cutting thing. If you cut too deep, you ruined the spinner :D
 
Back in my day they were called double sided double density floppy disks. 360K media that had the DSDD in the corner on the label. You had to turn them over due to the drive itself only being made with one head.
 
First.. it was Floppys, someone please beat the person calling them flippies, and yes, even as far back as Apple II days we cut a notch out of our floppies and flipped them over for double the storage... it worked.. but had a tendency to go bad after a lot of use because the media wasn't designed for it, so backing up on a weekly basis, or just outright copy sessions were common on Fridays before everybody fired up for Wizardry binges

The cool kids had specialty hole punches for that -- if anybody has one, let me know ;) Some people called them flippies after you notched it, because then you would flip it over; unlike the cool drives that had heads on both sides.
 
Lol I already forgot the notch cutting thing. If you cut too deep, you ruined the spinner :D

The cool kids had specialty hole punches for that -- if anybody has one, let me know ;) Some people called them flippies after you notched it, because then you would flip it over; unlike the cool drives that had heads on both sides.

I just used a regular hole punch. Never had a single sided drive, except maybe with my C64, which I never messed with trying to mod floppies for it.
 
Some BS when double sided wasn't a thing.
I don't really get this. If it hasn't been archived into new formats, then the value of the data probably isn't worth it to archive now.
You don't know how long I've been telling my employer to re-archive old aerial photographs. Now they may not even be salvageable anymore. Many are on first generation writable cds. The one that sometimes lasted 2-3 years for me at home.
 
I just used a regular hole punch. Never had a single sided drive, except maybe with my C64, which I never messed with trying to mod floppies for it.
But the hole was only needed for the "flippies" a regular DS drive didn't care if there was a hole on the other side of the disk. I only ever needed to put holes on DD disks for the C64 so I could write on the flipside. Double Sided PC drive didn't need it. .
 
But the hole was only needed for the "flippies" a regular DS drive didn't care if there was a hole on the other side of the disk.

3.5" for sure needed the extra hole. That is how the drive detected if it was a 720k or a 1.44MB disk.

For 5.25" maybe I am thinking of making drives writable that came with a fixed write protection notch.
 
I can't remember if the good old 1571 floppy drive had 2 heads. I think it did.
 
How is this a new challenge? Literally every problem listed is something they were warned about before it became a problem, and were told about it becoming a problem once they ignored the warning.
 
How is this a new challenge? Literally every problem listed is something they were warned about before it became a problem, and were told about it becoming a problem once they ignored the warning.
This is a depressingly accurate way of summing up most of human history.
 
My Dad still has an old Commodore 64 and 286/586, we boot them up every couple of year to play with them but some of the disks are physically losing their magnetism and are dying :(
I joke with my team of developer that back then you had to be incredibly efficient in your programming due to storage size limitations, nowadays you can be sloppy with your code as you basically have "unlimited space". Just look at new games that require 100Gb+ to install. Its incredible what you could do one just on floppy.
 
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I still have my Atari 800xl, but the floppy drive died 30 years ago so if I use it I lose all work once it is shut down :(

Did anyone ever use the Nicolet 620 which was a 20bit computer that was completely incompatible with IBM PCs? I wonder how difficult it would be to recover data stored on the 3.5" disks used on those?

I do still have boxes of 5.5" and 3.5" disks that I can't read any more, but I am sure there is still some good essays and poems on there that I wrote 20 years ago.
 
We have this same problem where I work managing scientific data that has been collected over the last 40 years. Sometimes we cannot figure out how to even interpret the data correctly. It is a real pain.
 
The cool kids had specialty hole punches for that -- if anybody has one, let me know ;) Some people called them flippies after you notched it, because then you would flip it over; unlike the cool drives that had heads on both sides.
I still have my disk notcher. Used it on hundreds of 5¼s in my C64 days.
Unfortunately, I've found that the floppy disks don't handle the highs and lows of garage storage. I put the system together a few years ago and my 1541 drive head was too far misaligned for me to get it to work. I bought a nice 1571 online that would read the disk fine... the first time. But any subsequent attempts were met with errors. I opened up the drive and saw that the magnetic media on the disks was delaminating, and accumulating on the drive head. Sad times.
 
I still have my old 386. CMOS battery is shot and its not a standard type, so every reboot it forgets the hard drive setup, date, and time. I should probably get it up and running while its still even possible though. I want to stream Wing Commander while playing it on period hardware.

Anyways, it has 5.25 and 3.5 inch floppies, so assuming they still work, I can copy off those old secrets still. Unless of course they used the old 8 inch drives or hard sectors.
 
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