1800x crosshair optimization out come

Yea, I had a feeling the volts were a bit high haha, it's under water and actually seems to run stable though.
 
kyriptic said:
Yea, I had a feeling the volts were a bit high haha, it's under water and actually seems to run stable though.
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Yea keep running it for the next 6 months and your cpu will degrade. Way too high fior this chip for 24/7. I would NOT piss $499 down the drain.
 
os2wiz said:
Yea keep running it for the next 6 months and your cpu will degrade. Way too high for this chip for 24/7. I would NOT piss $499 down the drain.
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Yea, I was just trying to get an idea of what was possible with water cooling (first time here) and was surprised it could run fine with such high volts. What do you think is a good volt to freq range to aim for on a 24/7 ?
 
kyriptic said:
Yea, I was just trying to get an idea of what was possible with water cooling (first time here) and was surprised it could run fine with such high volts. What do you think is a good volt to freq range to aim for on a 24/7 ?
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1.45 MAX.
 
Thoughts are that's pretty damn impressive for auto oc, most struggle to get over 4.0 let alone to almost 4.2. See if you can lower the voltage some and keep it stable.
 
Yea, I had done some reading and 4.1ghz was what people were saying they were capping at. So when I saw the auto oc not stop and pass 4.1ghz I was like wow... did I get lucky... then I looked at the volts lol.
 
So is 4.1ghz and 1.45v the sweet spot I should try and aim for now? or should 4.1ghz go even lower than 1.45v? Kind of just trying to figure out what's a good freq to volt ratio
 
I would just see if 4.1ghz is stable at 1.45v and move the clocks down from that.
 
CAD4466HK said:
1.45 MAX.
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I would not run 24/7 over 1.42 v.This chip is NOT Pilderiver. It will degrade over 6 months to a year if you overvolt too much The recommnded limit is 1.35 volts by AMD. They leave a safety margin. 1.45 volts is probably a bit too much. Come down to 4,0 GHZ for 24/7 .That will bring your voltage down to about 1.41 volts and leave yourself a little safety margin.
 
so I brought down the multiplyer to 41.25 and also brought down the vcore, but the odd thing is at idle my asus ai suite shows 1.438-1.438v while idle, but when i run cpu-z stress test it goes down to 1.38v? how's that make any sense? lol it also says 1.350v in cpu-z?
 
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As long as your running at 1.45 or so you are fine for likely years of use. i ran quite a bit of voltage through many of my chips and as long as you can keep it cool then I would not worry too much. I ran my 8350 hard to get the speed I wanted and it still runs to this day, the motherboard was trying to give up the ghost tho.
 
os2wiz said:
I would not run 24/7 over 1.42 v.This chip is NOT Pilderiver. It will degrade over 6 months to a year if you overvolt too much The recommnded limit is 1.35 volts by AMD. They leave a safety margin. 1.45 volts is probably a bit too much. Come down to 4,0 GHZ for 24/7 .That will bring your voltage down to about 1.41 volts and leave yourself a little safety margin.
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This is what I've found doing some research in over 9 forums and miscellaneous sites;

" Default voltage for manual tuning should start at around 1.3625V, according to AMD. Users should be fine pushing to 1.40V with a decent CPU cooler and up to 1.45V with a high-end dual-tower heatsink or dual-fan AIO radiator. At 1.45V, however, AMD suggests that processor longevity could be affected according to their models."
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"AMD predicts that most customers should see somewhere between 3.9 and 4.1 GHz across all cores, and suggests you stick with a 1.35V ceiling if you want your chip to last. Although core voltages in excess of 1.45V are considered sustainable, they'll have a more pronounced effect on longevity."
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"Raise core voltage for stabilizing the CPU also if you find you’re getting WHEA cache errors you’ll need to raise this voltage. The CPU core and cache are both fed from this rail, adding a bit more will stop the cache errors. AMD recommends 1.35 V for long term use. They also say that up to 1.45 V is acceptable but could affect the CPU’s longevity. In the end the choice is yours, personally I would split the difference and stay at 1.4 V or lower."
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On the high-end models the actual (effective) voltage for the base frequency (e.g. 3.6GHz on 1800X SKU) can be anything between 1.200 - 1.300V. Meanwhile the actual (effective) voltage for the highest single core boosted PState (XFR, e.g. 4.1GHz) can be as high as 1.47500V.

In the tested sample the actual default voltage for the base frequency (P0, 3.6GHz) was ~1.25000V, while the highest single core boost state (XFR, 4.1GHz) defaulted to 1.4625V.

While AMD has not revealed the highest safe (sustainable) VDDCR_CPU (CCX) or VDDCR_SOC (data fabric & peripheral) voltage levels, it can be speculated that voltages higher than 1.4500V are generally not advisable for sustained use, at least in conditions / workloads which result in high power consumption (i.e. all cores fully stressed).

Despite it is true that the high-end models can have their default voltage set up to 1.47500V during their maximum single core boost (XFR) operation, the power consumption / dissipation, amount of current flowing and the temperatures are very different between the scenarios where only a single core is fully stressed or all of the cores are fully stressed.

Pushing to or even beyond the factory MSCF (4.1GHz / XFR) frequency is entirely possible on all cores, however in my personal opinion it is not worth the significantly higher power consumption resulting from the significantly increased supply voltage. Personally, if find it more intriguing to try making the CPU even more efficient than it already is at stock.
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The maximum warrantied voltages are programmed into the CPU when it is made. For overclocking, we cannot guarantee safe operation as this action voids AMD warranty. A voltage of up to 1.55v can be used but requires a very robust cooling solution (liquid cooling is recommended).
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From this I gather AMD is just covering their own ass just like Intel does, I've found that "max safe" voltage usually applies more to the sample chip in question, along with cooling and the mobo. No two are the same. Of course AMD is not going to tell people that the "max safe" voltage is 1.55, for the simple fact that one could last 5 years at that voltage and another could last only 5 days. Imagine the RMA's.

Intel said SB had a safe max of 1.45, but plenty of peeps are still running 1.5 till this day.
As for Ryzen, it does sound like 1.45 should be the sweet spot and should be safe for a daily driver w/ full loop or AIO, but of course YMMV.

IMAO 1.42 is just too low for those 4GHz+ OC's on a lot of Ryzen rigs, 1.45 is needed just for stability.
And the most important aspect being that this is [H]OCP, if your not going to push the boundaries of your chip and let a little thing like Vcore scare you off, well all I can say is to relinquish your [H]ard card at the door on your way out.
 
CAD4466HK said:
This is what I've found doing some research in over 9 forums and miscellaneous sites;














From this I gather AMD is just covering their own ass just like Intel does, I've found that "max safe" voltage usually applies more to the sample chip in question, along with cooling and the mobo. No two are the same. Of course AMD is not going to tell people that the "max safe" voltage is 1.55, for the simple fact that one could last 5 years at that voltage and another could last only 5 days. Imagine the RMA's.

Intel said SB had a safe max of 1.45, but plenty of peeps are still running 1.5 till this day.
As for Ryzen, it does sound like 1.45 should be the sweet spot and should be safe for a daily driver w/ full loop or AIO, but of course YMMV.

IMAO 1.42 is just too low for those 4GHz+ OC's on a lot of Ryzen rigs, 1.45 is needed just for stability.
And the most important aspect being that this is [H]OCP, if your not going to push the boundaries of your chip and let a little thing like Vcore scare you off, well all I can say is to relinquish your [H]ard card at the door on your way out.
Click to expand...
Same was said of Bulldozer/Piledriver for max Vcore. We spent months trying to find what the MAX safe voltage was. Originally 1.55V was the consensus, I guess partly because that was the spoken limit for Phenom. Eventually most of us wound up running far north of 1.55V, a few as much as 1.75V (Custom Water). Theirs (to my knowledge) and mine are still going strong ~5 years later. The rule for us was <60C. That was it. Voltage was fine as long as you kept it cool.

So likely we are looking at 6months to a year before we know for certain what these Ryzens will take and that will require quite a few adventurous owners.
 
kyriptic said:
so I brought down the multiplyer to 41.25 and also brought down the vcore, but the odd thing is at idle my asus ai suite shows 1.438-1.438v while idle, but when i run cpu-z stress test it goes down to 1.38v? how's that make any sense? lol it also says 1.350v in cpu-z?
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Thats called Vdroop which is, without getting in details, basically voltage spike protection. It causes massive voltage drifts depending on load. To reduce this you have to use higher LLC, Load-Line Calibration, level in the BIOS. It reduces/disables the spike protection and reduces the voltage drift which makes overclocking bit easier, but in higher levels it will also put more strain on the motherboard VRM and generally increases the heat. In higher levels it may even increase the vcore way higher that what you set it at, IE if you have set your vcore to 1.35V the Monitoring Softwares will show 1.40 idle and 1.38 on load or something like that. Of course then you have to adjust vcore down manually to get your actual desired voltage.
 
CAD4466HK said:
This is what I've found doing some research in over 9 forums and miscellaneous sites;














From this I gather AMD is just covering their own ass just like Intel does, I've found that "max safe" voltage usually applies more to the sample chip in question, along with cooling and the mobo. No two are the same. Of course AMD is not going to tell people that the "max safe" voltage is 1.55, for the simple fact that one could last 5 years at that voltage and another could last only 5 days. Imagine the RMA's.

Intel said SB had a safe max of 1.45, but plenty of peeps are still running 1.5 till this day.
As for Ryzen, it does sound like 1.45 should be the sweet spot and should be safe for a daily driver w/ full loop or AIO, but of course YMMV.

IMAO 1.42 is just too low for those 4GHz+ OC's on a lot of Ryzen rigs, 1.45 is needed just for stability.
And the most important aspect being that this is [H]OCP, if your not going to push the boundaries of your chip and let a little thing like Vcore scare you off, well all I can say is to relinquish your [H]ard card at the door on your way out.
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So you are talkingout of 2 sides ofyourmouth. AMD says 1.45 volts will degrade the processor over the long term but since 1.45volts is needed for many Ryzen 4.0 overclocks we ahould ignore AMD.. That is pure idiocy unless everyone is part of the Trump or Bloomberg family. I made a $500 investment in my cpu , tensof thousands have done likewise. You think most of them will be happy in 6 months or a year when there cpu will be lucky to run at 3.6 GHZor 3.7 GHZ because they pushed it too hard. Bragging rights is a stupid goal unless you are a blowhard like our president. Prudence dictates a more conservativeapproach andnot tooverclock higher than what 1.42 cpu core voltage will allow.
 
os2wiz said:
So you are talkingout of 2 sides ofyourmouth. AMD says 1.45 volts will degrade the processor over the long term but since 1.45volts is needed for many Ryzen 4.0 overclocks we ahould ignore AMD.. That is pure idiocy unless everyone is part of the Trump or Bloomberg family. I made a $500 investment in my cpu , tensof thousands have done likewise. You think most of them will be happy in 6 months or a year when there cpu will be lucky to run at 3.6 GHZor 3.7 GHZ because they pushed it too hard. Bragging rights is a stupid goal unless you are a blowhard like our president. Prudence dictates a more conservativeapproach andnot tooverclock higher than what 1.42 cpu core voltage will allow.
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Ok engineers always error on the side of safe, so 1.42 is that safe area and likely up to 1.5 is ok, this gives them room for LLC over volts. The other issue is the fact a cpu is meant to last 20 years, are you actually planning on keeping Ryzen for 20 years? I am sure at 1.5 and beyond will degrade the cpu but lets say it's by half which is a drastic degradation, you still have 10 years of use. Keeping the processor cool should be your biggest thing, cooler it runs the longer it lasts. I pushed my 8350 over the AMD recommend voltage for years and I never lost speed or had to increase my voltage further to keep it running, it was just quite a bit harder to keep it in it's thermal limits. Were getting a new Ryzen next year and if the performance is better most of us will slap in the new chip and sell off the old one since we wont be needing a new motherboard. Engineers tend to keep a safety margin of 10% and since the xfr profile will boost to 1.5 volts single or dual core, tells me they were none to concerned bout that kind of voltage.
 
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os2wiz said:
So you are talkingout of 2 sides ofyourmouth. AMD says 1.45 volts will degrade the processor over the long term but since 1.45volts is needed for many Ryzen 4.0 overclocks we ahould ignore AMD.. That is pure idiocy unless everyone is part of the Trump or Bloomberg family. I made a $500 investment in my cpu , tensof thousands have done likewise. You think most of them will be happy in 6 months or a year when there cpu will be lucky to run at 3.6 GHZor 3.7 GHZ because they pushed it too hard. Bragging rights is a stupid goal unless you are a blowhard like our president. Prudence dictates a more conservativeapproach andnot tooverclock higher than what 1.42 cpu core voltage will allow.
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As others have pointed out, engineers always leave a little headroom for CPU's, and it's not just CPU's, but any and everything that is made today. And AMD said 1.45 MAY degrade the chip, once again covering their asses, that's defiantly not something that is set in stone.

And since you like to bring politics up so much in your post, and have a strict need of believing in what a major manufacturer such as AMD has to say at face value, leads me to believe that you must of voted for Clinton and were severely butthurt when she failed to acquire the presidency.
 
CAD4466HK said:
As others have pointed out, engineers always leave a little headroom for CPU's, and it's not just CPU's, but any and everything that is made today. And AMD said 1.45 MAY degrade the chip, once again covering their asses, that's defiantly not something that is set in stone.

And since you like to bring politics up so much in your post, and have a strict need of believing in what a major manufacturer such as AMD has to say at face value, leads me to believe that you must of voted for Clinton and were severely butthurt when she failed to acquire the presidency.
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Absolutely wrong on both counts! So you will advocate 1.45volts on the chance AMD might be wrong about the degrading issue. Smart move. Second I did NOT vote for Killary. She is a war criminal and just as racist as Trump by her actions. I in fact did not vote because I do NOT have to choose my oppressor. I opt to organize for revolution, and not Bernie's type either.
 
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os2wiz said:
Absolutely wrongonboth counts! So you willadvocate 1.45volts onm the chance AMD might be wrong about the degrading issue. Smart move. Second I di NOT vote for Killary. She is a war criminal and just as racist as Trump by her actions. I in fact did not vote because I do NOT have to choose my oppressor. I opt to organize for revolution, and not Bernie's type either.
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Yes I do recommend 1.45v as a safe, daily driver voltage as long as the temps are in check(75ºC max )and the VRM's are adequately cooled.

I've been doing this long enough to know there is plenty of wiggle room past the manufacturer's recommended voltage on CPU's. If I was wrong, myself and plenty of members on this site and countless others, would be swimming in dead and dying, degraded chips by now. And in my experience, it's usually the mobo that degrades and not the CPU.

When my 1700 comes in, it will immediately be bathed in the hell fire that is 1.45v.(if needed that is)

CAD4466HK approves this message.
 
CAD4466HK said:
Yes I do recommend 1.45v as a safe, daily driver voltage as long as the temps are in check(75ºC max )and the VRM's are adequately cooled.

I've been doing this long enough to know there is plenty of wiggle room past the manufacturer's recommended voltage on CPU's. If I was wrong, myself and plenty of members on this site and countless others, would be swimming in dead and dying, degraded chips by now. And in my experience, it's usually the mobo that degrades and not the CPU.

When my 1700 comes in, it will immediately be bathed in the hell fire that is 1.45v.(if needed that is)

CAD4466HK approves this message.
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1.5v or go home :p
 
JustReason said:
Same was said of Bulldozer/Piledriver for max Vcore. We spent months trying to find what the MAX safe voltage was. Originally 1.55V was the consensus, I guess partly because that was the spoken limit for Phenom. Eventually most of us wound up running far north of 1.55V, a few as much as 1.75V (Custom Water). Theirs (to my knowledge) and mine are still going strong ~5 years later. The rule for us was <60C. That was it. Voltage was fine as long as you kept it cool.

So likely we are looking at 6months to a year before we know for certain what these Ryzens will take and that will require quite a few adventurous owners.
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It is not so much the voltage that is interesting but the result you get from it. It is unlikely that you will get to 5ghz on any current Ryzen cpu with water or air cooling. That makes it less attractive to force the voltage.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
It is not so much the voltage that is interesting but the result you get from it. It is unlikely that you will get to 5ghz on any current Ryzen cpu with water or air cooling. That makes it less attractive to force the voltage.
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agreed seems to be a hard wall for clock regardless of voltage.
 
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